Why do you cede or accept control outside the bedroom?

[JMohegan]

Its not about the bedroom. Its about the entire exchange, Its about the focus and the clarity. Its about the security and the anxiety. Its about the sense of completion and living fluidly right in the moment over and over again. Its about the focus on my Dominant and how his happiness spills back on me. Its about the heightened awareness of the World around me and the barrier that exists between that and myself , which if I need it to be is always him. Its embracing all that he is , was and will be . Its leaning back into the knowledge that I am his with a soft pride whether he is with me or not. Its the knowledge in myself that nothing challenges that. Its about being caught off guard and trusting the Journey because he says its so .Then embracing the adventure be it small or grandiose. Its 'stuff' like that. The rest, the kink , the bedroom its icing.

Where that leaves me in the Poll I am uncertain . I have enjoyed considering it as much as I have struggled and still found no conclusion.

This is a lovely summary of the magic that is possible in a D/s relationship. Thank you, Rebecca, for taking the time to write it.

A while ago, on a different thread, I made the observation that the way we (general "we", including myself) talk about the D/s lifestyle sometimes has an unintended effect on those who are wondering if maybe D/s would be right for them. Specifically, the descriptions of magic sometimes give the impression that D/s is the path to happiness. This is true for some, of course, but not all. What I write next I write for others, not Rebecca or anyone else who has posted on this thread.

D/s can be magic, that's true. But it is also hard work. And no matter how magical your connection with your partner is, the mundane realities of life will still exist.

The scope of D/s relationships differs widely, but if your D/s relationship overlaps with your mundane existence, then conversations about non-bedroom control relate to issues like: who will do the dishes every night, do we really need to spend the money for a new dishwasher, what should we do about the neighbor's barking dog, how much should we set aside for retirement each month, etc.

And what happens in those mundane moments will often make or break a relationship. Yes, magic can happen at unexpected times. Some of the most spectacular moments of my life have taken place when I least expected them to. But it can also be hard, hard work. The responsibilities assumed by the Dominant can at times feel heavy indeed, and the challenge of obeying commands when you really aren't in the mood can tax the patience of even the most devoted submissive.

I remember someone on this board (RJ, perhaps) writing something like - If you want to see just how submissive a woman really is, tell her to go mow the lawn. I laughed out loud when I read it. This really can be a great test.

Because the fact of the matter is, when you give up control there will definitely be times when you don't like what you're being ordered to do. And at no time is this more true than when dealing with the mundane realities of life.

 

[SpectreT]

I voted that I do not cede or accept control outside the bedroom. It's the only one that rang even a tiny part of my psyche; I need more time to clarify and properly frame my reasons for this knee-jerk vote, which came after reading your initial post.

I will edit this post to do the clarification and/or make my thoughts and emotions on this more concrete, as there's a lot more to this than can easily be summed up in a simple vote, and quite frankly, once in a relationship again, my answer may be different, due to the altered status of my reality. (solipsistically speaking... )

Edit to add my (hopefully) clarifications, as it's still not concrete in my head, which is probably good. I've got enough rocks banging around in there... :

In part, it is because none of the first five are acceptable to me, as reasons I would give myself, for being submissive in such situations. I'd have to call bullshit on myself in a second flat.

I know myself, and how I react to certain kinds of authority, which is to say badly. This is especially true in overt situations. Knee-jerk reaction is to tell someone where they can stick it, and whether or not it needs to go in sideways. And that doesn’t fit with a D/S dynamic.

Am I capable of hanging that up, from a submissive standpoint? Sure. But I prefer such things be discussed long in advance, and anyone springing a surprise on me is likely to get a pretty big, unpleasant surprise themselves. (I’m a stereotypical Taurus; we’re cool as long as you stay frosty - push the bull, and you get the horns, sunshine. )

Also, the simple fact of being in even a Vanilla relationship means one or both partners cede authority in such things. It’s called compromise, and I can work that, no problem.

When I mentioned “springing a surprise on me”, I’m discussing a purely hypothetical situation, where, for example, “in the bedroom”, I’m perfectly fine with getting dressed up in a silly french maid costume, tied up and buttfucked silly. Then they expect me to do their windows as long as I'm dressed like that, even though nobody discussed domestic duties beforehand. That’s when they’d be informed they could get bent. (and a clear example of why I don’t believe in “implied consent” - heck, I’m in a maid costume, doesn’t that imply maid duties?)

There are more layers of course, like maybe I need a “friendly reminder” to clean up the office or my workbench. That’s something I’d be cool with, even suggest it as an extension of other D/S. (Back to the maid costume... did someone push my “sissy” button when I wasn’t looking?)

On the dominant side, I’m just not down with micromanaging. Kind of an extension of the “Golden Rule”, I suppose - I don’t react well to that sort of thing being pulled on me, why would I expect others to? I might suggest that a particular outfit isn’t going to work, say that “come fuck me” dress to meet the parents, but that’s about as controlling “outside the bedroom” as I’m comfortable with, generally speaking.

Back to relationships, compromise, and meeting partners’ needs.

This is where my bit in my initial post about “my altered reality” comes in. Suppose my partner wants or needs that control to be applied to them. Can I do that? Yes, but it would get exhausting after a while. Suppose they felt the need to exert such control over me. Could I do that? Yep, but better make sure I’m mentally and emotionally ready for it, or my mood will turn ugly.

I'm sure some of that has to do with my self-identification as a switch, too, now that I think more on it - no one role fits me perfectly, or for too long, so naturally, I'd be uncomfortable with letting it overtly move into other aspects of the relationship.

Covertly is a whole other kettle of potato chips, and one where there may be lots more room than I give overt, in my mind. But that wasn't the topic at hand...

 

[JMohegan]

I voted that I do not cede or accept control outside the bedroom. It's the only one that rang even a tiny part of my psyche; I need more time to clarify and properly frame my reasons for this knee-jerk vote, which came after reading your initial post.

I will edit this post to do the clarification and/or make my thoughts and emotions on this more concrete, as there's a lot more to this than can easily be summed up in a simple vote, and quite frankly, once in a relationship again, my answer may be different, due to the altered status of my reality. (solipsistically speaking... )

This is such a great response. Thanks, Spectre T. To tell you the truth, I was really hoping that a switch would show up on this thread.

Yes, there's a whole hell of a lot more to this "than can be summed up in a simple vote". I look forward to any and all expanded commentary or observations.

Solipsistic.... I love that word. Reminds me of a quote from Zorba the Greek. I can't think of it off the top of my head, but I'll let you know if I find my copy of the book.

 

[BeachGurl2]

This has been a really interesting thread, JM, with some great input. It always interests me to see how diverse this 'community' truly is. These kinds of threads allow us insight we might not otherwise have when wondering where some opinions originate - at least for me since my brain is always trying to figure that out. I'm sure we all play the 'what if' game of wondering how it would be to interact with specific people on the boards - I'm talking both socially and sexually. These kinds of threads, I think, give that little extra that lets you truly visualize how those interactions might play out.



Or not. Could just be that I'm weird that way and no one else thinks like that.

 

[GoddessHathor]

I voted on the first one, though I am considered a switch. In my life outside "the bedroom", I am very much the dominant one. I'm considered intimidating and strong.

This can slip over into my physical, intimate life if my partner subconsiously lets it. If I am with a submissive, I will automatically slip into my controlling mode (as well as the guiding, nuturing...I'm not a total bitch! lol). Yet, if I am with someone who is strongly dominant, I will easily slip into a submissive role.

Like SpectreT, I can't stay with either for too long, as I will get bored or antsy and need to change up. lol

I'm not great with words/descriptions, but trust me, it can get very confusing sometimes! lol

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Beautifully said Rebecca. Thank you for sharing that.

Thank you Miss Callinectes, it was when finished, my pleasure

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

This is a lovely summary of the magic that is possible in a D/s relationship. Thank you, Rebecca, for taking the time to write it.

My pleasure and thank you John.

A while ago, on a different thread, I made the observation that the way we (general "we", including myself) talk about the D/s lifestyle sometimes has an unintended effect on those who are wondering if maybe D/s would be right for them. Specifically, the descriptions of magic sometimes give the impression that D/s is the path to happiness. This is true for some, of course, but not all. What I write next I write for others, not Rebecca or anyone else who has posted on this thread.

D/s can be magic, that's true. But it is also hard work. And no matter how magical your connection with your partner is, the mundane realities of life will still exist.

The scope of D/s relationships differs widely, but if your D/s relationship overlaps with your mundane existence, then conversations about non-bedroom control relate to issues like: who will do the dishes every night, do we really need to spend the money for a new dishwasher, what should we do about the neighbor's barking dog, how much should we set aside for retirement each month, etc.

And what happens in those mundane moments will often make or break a relationship. Yes, magic can happen at unexpected times. Some of the most spectacular moments of my life have taken place when I least expected them to. But it can also be hard, hard work. The responsibilities assumed by the Dominant can at times feel heavy indeed, and the challenge of obeying commands when you really aren't in the mood can tax the patience of even the most devoted submissive.

Agreed , so many challenges.
A D/s relationship offers no immunity to anything that can and may go wrong.
The personal framework for how challenges are addressed can be a real asset however. Naturally as each relationship is different I can't be sure all are availed the same positive notion in this regard as I do.

The mundane is there D/s or not. Its unrealistic to think the every day challenges disappear . I guess if your seeking a D/s relationship in order in some way to be personally 'fixed/solved/responsibility free ' its possible to be in for a cruel awakening.

I used to joke with a Dominant friend of mine that I could be the 'best submissive in the Whole Wide World' ( fiction styling ) if I could only have my own Butler , Maid , Chef and Chauffeur. He had a great sense of humor and fully appreciated what I meant.

I remember someone on this board (RJ, perhaps) writing something like - If you want to see just how submissive a woman really is, tell her to go mow the lawn. I laughed out loud when I read it. This really can be a great test.

Well I may be wrong John but that sounds a different kind of evil to RJ's style , I am voting on Geoff Sir for that 'anecdote'. As soon as we establish who it is I'll have my voo doo doll fired up and ready to go..........

 

[SpectreT]

I voted on the first one, though I am considered a switch. In my life outside "the bedroom", I am very much the dominant one. I'm considered intimidating and strong.

This can slip over into my physical, intimate life if my partner subconsiously lets it. If I am with a submissive, I will automatically slip into my controlling mode (as well as the guiding, nuturing...I'm not a total bitch! lol). Yet, if I am with someone who is strongly dominant, I will easily slip into a submissive role.

Hm. A lot of that fits for me, as well, as I've said before.

Like SpectreT, I can't stay with either for too long, as I will get bored or antsy and need to change up. lol

To clarify my own position somewhat; There is some kind of threshold past which one role or the other feels confining, becomes an exhausting or onerous duty instead of a joyful expression of self. It's a kind of three dimensional model, if you can imagine it, with a finite volume in terms of the amount of power exchanged and amount of time it's exchanged over (x and y axes, being "in the bedroom" and "out of the bedroom", respectively, and z axis, being time in one role. God, I hope that made sense). If there's more power exchanged (area grows on x and y), the time available before it becomes a problem grows shorter (less area available on z), though even short term, for my purposes, is somewhere in the realm of a year. So, if it's confined to "bedroom only", as per the purposes of this discussion, I can stay on one end or the other of the power spectrum for longer than that amount of time; expand the role beyond "playtime", and my tolerance grows shorter.

I'm not great with words/descriptions, but trust me, it can get very confusing sometimes! lol

As my "clarification" illustrates, this can be true for me as well.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not certain which if any apply to me these days.

I think it may be closest to the "continuation of bedroom" dynamic described. It doesn't really have to do with my needs or conscious decisions. It's simply how the cards fall when they fall. I don't have rituals, assignments, or routines these days, but I know that what I say will inevitably go. Just because M is a submissive man it is not logical or desired for him to be the one to do all the housework and it is not logical or desired for me to plan his retirement for him. It is logical and desired that he do what he is good at and respect me, and benefit me in his doing so. I think it would be miserable misuse of a submissive with a creative bent to use up all of their spare time on having a spotless house, so you can say you're boss. Spotless houses are for sissies. I digress...

When the chips have fallen in other relationships so that I am not feeling a certain base level of control or when I am losing that base level of control-feeling due to unusual circumstances, or maybe more "not ideal" than "unusual" I wind up unhappy. I would describe myself, based on having tried levels of control in rels. from submissively close to zero to all-out Owner Master and Ballbuster, as essentially someone who finds herself in control and better off that way in romantic and sexual liaisons.

 

[JMohegan]

Well I may be wrong John but that sounds a different kind of evil to RJ's style , I am voting on Geoff Sir for that 'anecdote'. As soon as we establish who it is I'll have my voo doo doll fired up and ready to go..........

I'm killer with the search function these days.

So I think it often happens that a fake type of submission is offered under the guise to be pleasing, when the only type of pleasing the submissive is willing to do is with their own interests in mind. Nothing exposes this type of fake submission faster than to reject such an offer and relpace it with something else like mow my lawn.

Found: here.

If you disagree, you're gonna need two voo doo dolls.

I think he hit a bullseye with that one.

 

[JMohegan]

I voted on the first one, though I am considered a switch.

Thank you for your contributions here, GH. I do not identify as a switch, but am very much enjoying your exchanges with SpectreT.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm not certain which if any apply to me these days.

I think it may be closest to the "continuation of bedroom" dynamic described. It doesn't really have to do with my needs or conscious decisions. It's simply how the cards fall when they fall. I don't have rituals, assignments, or routines these days, but I know that what I say will inevitably go. Just because M is a submissive man it is not logical or desired for him to be the one to do all the housework and it is not logical or desired for me to plan his retirement for him. It is logical and desired that he do what he is good at and respect me, and benefit me in his doing so. I think it would be miserable misuse of a submissive with a creative bent to use up all of their spare time on having a spotless house, so you can say you're boss. Spotless houses are for sissies. I digress...

When the chips have fallen in other relationships so that I am not feeling a certain base level of control or when I am losing that base level of control-feeling due to unusual circumstances, or maybe more "not ideal" than "unusual" I wind up unhappy. I would describe myself, based on having tried levels of control in rels. from submissively close to zero to all-out Owner Master and Ballbuster, as essentially someone who finds herself in control and better off that way in romantic and sexual liaisons.

This is a wonderful description of one flavor of realistic D/s. Not fantasy, not fairy tales, not Harlequin romance.

Great post, Netzach. Thanks.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

I'm killer with the search function these days.


Found: here.

If you disagree, you're gonna need two voo doo dolls.

I think he hit a bullseye with that one.

Well someone did that's for sure .....smiles.

Thank you John

 

[babiesmiles]

I chose the number two cause I need Master's guidance in several aspects of my life that are not only related with D/s aspects.

He advices and nurtures me in big decisions and every day life matters as well , and although we are in a LDR we continually find the way to talk about everything .

We have structured talks about BDSM related issues , about literature , politic , music , social matters and several other fields but we often just laugh and talk light about how our day went , so our level of communication is so complete and wholly faceted that I think I wouldn't be able to take some big ( or even small ) decision without at least hear and highly value his point of view .

The only area which is a bit out his guidance is the one related to my job cause we both are very specialized in our respective fields which are very far from each other , but that doesn't mean we don't talk about it too .

But I suppose it usually happens when your Master is your best friend too , so the " in bed " and " off bed" , the D/s and the friends' talks mix and flow in an indefinite although continuous stream of mutual growth , which, at least in my case, is the basic requirement for a satisfying relation .

 

[cati]

I remember someone on this board (RJ, perhaps) writing something like - If you want to see just how submissive a woman really is, tell her to go mow the lawn. I laughed out loud when I read it. This really can be a great test.

Hmmm, while likely true in most cases, my position on this particular matter would be behind the mower. I enjoy cutting the grass...

 

[Netzach]

You know how downtrodden most men look in craft supply stores when they're dragged into them? Mine's the one happily running around and picking things out for me to use in the bead shops.

 

[Dread_Pirate_Roberts]

I don't see it as a matter "of need" outside of the bedroom. Control is something that comes natural to me. Have always been that way. Yet, to cede, that is a bedroom preference. One I can be very fond of from time to time.
Dread

 

[BiBunny]

I think I've narrowed it down between numbers one and four. I may eventually get around to voting one day, LOL.

 

[JMohegan]

I chose the number two cause I need Master's guidance in several aspects of my life that are not only related with D/s aspects.

He advices and nurtures me in big decisions and every day life matters as well , and although we are in a LDR we continually find the way to talk about everything .

We have structured talks about BDSM related issues , about literature , politic , music , social matters and several other fields but we often just laugh and talk light about how our day went , so our level of communication is so complete and wholly faceted that I think I wouldn't be able to take some big ( or even small ) decision without at least hear and highly value his point of view .

The only area which is a bit out his guidance is the one related to my job cause we both are very specialized in our respective fields which are very far from each other , but that doesn't mean we don't talk about it too .

But I suppose it usually happens when your Master is your best friend too , so the " in bed " and " off bed" , the D/s and the friends' talks mix and flow in an indefinite although continuous stream of mutual growth , which, at least in my case, is the basic requirement for a satisfying relation .

What a beautiful post, Babiesmiles. Thank you so much for contributing it here.

I remember you saying on a different thread that your Dominant is the slow & steady kind, i.e. he takes his time developing the relationship. That's the way I am, too.

One of the benefits I see to the slow & steady approach is the opportunity to develop a closeness of the type you describe here, which as you say, has reciprocal benefits in & out of the bedroom.

 

[JMohegan]

Hmmm, while likely true in most cases, my position on this particular matter would be behind the mower. I enjoy cutting the grass...

I'm sure your Dominant would be able to think up a suitable alternative.

You know how downtrodden most men look in craft supply stores when they're dragged into them? Mine's the one happily running around and picking things out for me to use in the bead shops.

 

[JMohegan]

I don't see it as a matter "of need" outside of the bedroom. Control is something that comes natural to me. Have always been that way. Yet, to cede, that is a bedroom preference. One I can be very fond of from time to time.
Dread

Hi, Dread. Great name.

I have a question about your post. As I read it, you are saying two things.

1 - Outside the bedroom, you exert control over others because there is something about you that just makes other people have the urge to obey or follow you.

I have known a few people whose charisma induces many others to follow their lead. Is that what you are talking about here?

2 - Inside the bedroom, you are submissive. (That's the way I read your last two sentences.)

Taking these together, are you saying that in your personal relationships you are dominant outside the bedroom but submissive within the bedroom?

Thanks for your contribution. I look forward to your clarification.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Too many choices...none really fit *sigh*

 

[JMohegan]

I think I've narrowed it down between numbers one and four. I may eventually get around to voting one day, LOL.

Take your time. It's not a race.

There is value in careful consideration of one's needs, IMO. Beachgurl mentioned "wondering how it would be to interact with specific people", and I think this is very important to do. Not so much for the Internet fantasies she mentioned (although there is nothing wrong with fantasy).

But knowledge of self is critical in deciding whether to establish an intimate relationship with a specific person in real life. If the partner's needs don't match up well, then that relationship is gonna be uphill all the way.

 

[JMohegan]

Too many choices...none really fit *sigh*

Nice to see you, anyway, KC.

What does fit, for you?

 

[neonflux]

Doesn't quite fit for me either

I am switch, but keep the power play to the bedroom (or the dungeon, or the BDSM club, etc). While I recently established what I hope will become a close friendship with a 24/7 lesbian couple, this is not something I would choose for my own life. Particularly not after having spent years in a "non-aware" and so "non-consensual" version of such a relationship with my last long-term GF - even though it is totally against my nature, I learned to "submitt" in order to "keep the peace."

What is ironic is that through my BDSM play, I am learning and practicing negotiation skills that make it easier to reach true, consensual compromise in the everyday portions of my relationships - romantic, family, w/ friends and professional.

~Neon