Why do we forgive others?

[jomar]

Do we forgive others because the Bible tells us to? Because society expects us to and our parents taught us to? Or is forgiving more personal, actually a selfish act, more about ourselves than about others? What do you think?

 

[elsol]

Never forgiven anybody... for anything.

Mostly, I just forget something happened until I see the person again.

 

[i812]

Do we forgive others because the Bible tells us to? Because society expects us to and our parents taught us to? Or is forgiving more personal, actually a selfish act, more about ourselves than about others? What do you think?

I think that mentally healthy people forgive. Unhealthy minds, do not.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

This is an interesting question in the light of a thread I just started, "Guilt vs. Shame." A coincidence, that - the subjects may be related.

If someone has a pattern of behavior that hurts you and does nothing to change it, you can't forgive him for the examples of this behavior in the past that hurt you even if he is contrite, or you are a dope if you do, because nothing has changed to warrant forgiveness and you are going to keep getting hurt.

On the other hand if someone did something in the past that hurt you but has changed his behavior so it won't happen again, then forgiveness makes sense, because it frees you to focus on other things.

 

[oggbashan]

Because we can.

Not forgiving builds hate within ourselves.

We sometimes need forgiveness from others. It is easier to accept forgiveness if you are prepared to forgive someone else.

Forgiveness is not just a Christian trait. It is one that Jesus recommended, but other religions and other ethical systems also recommend forgiveness.

If a driver makes a mistake and you have to compensate for their error, why hold a grudge? It might relieve your feelings temporarily to give them the finger, but is better to realise that all humans are imperfect and sometimes err. You too might make a driving error.

Og

 

[i812]

Never forgiven anybody... for anything.

Mostly, I just forget something happened until I see the person again.

Your post was not there when I clicked 'Submit Reply'. Otherwise, I would not have posted what I said earlier. Will you forgive me?

 

[Dar~]

I have thouhgt about this myself, because I am extremely forgiving. I think I do it, because I truly hate the idea of someone feeling guilty for something. I hate feeling guilty so why would I want someone else to feel that way? Also, it's entirely selfish. I feel better when I let things go. even if the person doesn't believe I have forgiven, when I truly have, I feel better about things.

I think forgiving is a lot like crying. It purifies things. Letting go and moving on is a profoundly amazing thing. Humans have the greatest capacity for forgiveness. I think we are blessed.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I have thouhgt about this myself, because I am extremely forgiving. I think I do it, because I truly hate the idea of someone feeling guilty for something. I hate feeling guilty so why would I want someone else to feel that way? Also, it's entirely selfish. I feel better when I let things go. even if the person doesn't believe I have forgiven, when I truly have, I feel better about things.

I think forgiving is a lot like crying. It purifies things. Letting go and moving on is a profoundly amazing thing. Humans have the greatest capacity for forgiveness. I think we are blessed.

Does being forgiven relieve guilt? You still did it, having done it is a "stain" that can't be removed. It might be nice to be forgiven, but that's not really related to your guilt, is it? (Again, I'm thinking back to the "Guilt vs. Shame" thread.)

(Cute av, BTW. )

 

[Dar~]

Does being forgiven relieve guilt? You still did it, having done it is a "stain" that can't be removed. (Again, I'm thinking back to the "Guilt vs. Shame" thread.)

It may not relieve thewir guilt, but it may relieve the pain at seeing me and knowing something wrong was done. If I forgive and it is done truly and wholely, then they will see that my life has moved on and is no longer affected by the slight. I can't make someone change, but I can forgive and hope that they in turn can forgive themself.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

It may not relieve thewir guilt, but it may relieve the pain at seeing me and knowing something wrong was done. If I forgive and it is done truly and wholely, then they will see that my life has moved on and is no longer affected by the slight. I can't make someone change, but I can forgive and hope that they in turn can forgive themself.

What if he has done nothing to reform? See my first post in this thread. In that case, should he forgive himself? If you are out of range of the person's destructive habit that caused you harm in the past you still might want to forgive him so you don't have to waste any more energy on it - but should he forgive himself for the particular incident before he has reformed the pattern?

 

[Dar~]

Until a reform has been made, shame can not be assuaged. Until a reform has been made, the very public appearance of shame (like avoidance) will not be able to change. Forgiveness internally or outwardly projected can not be granted without reform. When a person has forgiven either themself or others, then guilt should pass, becaus ethe mind knows that it has made the changes necessary to avoid the shameful acts in the future.

I think the major problem is that people say they are forgiving but in reality it is simply stored away until such a time as it can be dug up and used thereby making the initial abuser feel once again guilty regardless of the fact that the changes have made. Forgiveness is only truly given when the episode is never mentioned or thought on again.

 

[jomar]

Does being forgiven relieve guilt? You still did it, having done it is a "stain" that can't be removed. It might be nice to be forgiven, but that's not really related to your guilt, is it? (Again, I'm thinking back to the "Guilt vs. Shame" thread.)

(Cute av, BTW. )

I don't think forgiving releases you from guilt. You can forgive but still hold accountable.

I have thouhgt about this myself, because I am extremely forgiving. I think I do it, because I truly hate the idea of someone feeling guilty for something. I hate feeling guilty so why would I want someone else to feel that way? Also, it's entirely selfish. I feel better when I let things go. even if the person doesn't believe I have forgiven, when I truly have, I feel better about things.

Yes. I think forgiving is selfish, too. Selfish in the sense we want to let go of the anguish and pain and hatred that consumes us, as Oggbashen noted. To not forgive hurts us, not the other person. The other person doesn't even have to know they've been forgiven.

I recall a tv segment in which a father forgave the man who murdered his son, and even helped him get parole and a scholarship. Amazing.

 

[impressive]

I'm not entirely sure I know what forgiveness even IS.

I mean, if someone wrongs me, I can't undo the memory. Wouldn't WANT to if I could. But that doesn't mean I cut that person out of my life. Will I ever regard them in exactly the same way as I did prior to the wrong? No. How could I?

In the philosophical discussion about changing one's past, we often hear replies like: My past experiences are part of who I am today, so I wouldn't change anything.

I think the same is true of relationships in general.

In the sense that I don't hold on to my anger, yes -- I forgive. I don't delude myself, though, that things will ever be "the same."

 

[elsol]

Your post was not there when I clicked 'Submit Reply'. Otherwise, I would not have posted what I said. Will you forgive me?

Why... you're probably right, from the rest of the world's perspective.

I just think a lot of us don't forgive other people... we just pretend to. I forgo the pretending

Either I can live with what was done or I need to get away from the person.

 

[Dar~]

In the sense that I don't hold on to my anger, yes -- I forgive. I don't delude myself, though, that things will ever be "the same."

Forgiveness in its purest utopian sense means forgetting, none of us live in utopia though. The truth behind forgiveness is the intent. If I intened to let go and move on, not letting the slight affect the future of my existance, then I have forgiven. No, we will never forget, but letting go, truly letting go, is what forgiveness is meant as.

 

[jomar]

What if he has done nothing to reform? See my first post in this thread. In that case, should he forgive himself? If you are out of range of the person's destructive habit that caused you harm in the past you still might want to forgive him so you don't have to waste any more energy on it - but should he forgive himself for the particular incident before he has reformed the pattern?

Some people don't have the insight or simply don't care or even take pleasure (psychopaths for an extreme example) in manipulating and harming others. So they may never reform.

You do raise another issue, though. Forgiving ourselves for things we do. This directly relates to your thread on guilt s shame.

 

[elsol]

This is an interesting question in the light of a thread I just started, "Guilt vs. Shame." A coincidence, that - the subjects may be related.

If someone has a pattern of behavior that hurts you and does nothing to change it, you can't forgive him for the examples of this behavior in the past that hurt you even if he is contrite, or you are a dope if you do, because nothing has changed to warrant forgiveness and you are going to keep getting hurt.

On the other hand if someone did something in the past that hurt you but has changed his behavior so it won't happen again, then forgiveness makes sense, because it frees you to focus on other things.

This presupposes that an individual will stay there to keep getting hurt.

I would argue the loophole to your point is if the person leaves; i.e. a wife whose husband keeps cheating... at some point, let's say the dynamic changes which make a 'tolerable' situation, her husband cheating, completely intolerable, like the cheating being outed to her friends.

If she leaves and removes the 'cheating' on her because of divorce... can she then forgive him for past acts even though he was not the driver of the change... she just removed his ability to continue hurting her?

 

[i812]

Why... you're probably right, from the rest of the world's perspective.

I just think a lot of us don't forgive other people... we just pretend to. I forgo the pretending

Either I can live with what was done or I need to get away from the person.

I was hoping that you could forgive me. I hope you won't take revenge. They say it is sweet.

 

[jomar]

I mean, if someone wrongs me, I can't undo the memory. Wouldn't WANT to if I could. But that doesn't mean I cut that person out of my life. Will I ever regard them in exactly the same way as I did prior to the wrong? No. How could I?

In the philosophical discussion about changing one's past, we often hear replies like: My past experiences are part of who I am today, so I wouldn't change anything.

I think the same is true of relationships in general.

In the sense that I don't hold on to my anger, yes -- I forgive. I don't delude myself, though, that things will ever be "the same."

I agree.

 

[CeriseNoire]

Personally, I forgive because I find holding grudges too tedious. Frankly, it just takes way too much energy to stay angry.

 

[impressive]

Forgiveness in its purest utopian sense means forgetting, none of us live in utopia though. The truth behind forgiveness is the intent. If I intened to let go and move on, not letting the slight affect the future of my existance, then I have forgiven. No, we will never forget, but letting go, truly letting go, is what forgiveness is meant as.

I can "let it go" in the sense that I don't dredge it up & throw it back in someone's face at every opportunity.

I can "let it go" in the sense that I can still enjoy that person's company & share a friendship.

But we'll never, ever be the same as we were before. It's impossible -- just as it's impossible to be "the same" after a moment of intense joy. We've changed.

That said, I am NOT what anyone would consider "a softie" in the forgiveness department. Deception is something that will forever lower my opinion of someone.

*shrug* I am what I am.

 

[CeriseNoire]

I can "let it go" in the sense that I don't dredge it up & throw it back in someone's face at every opportunity.

I can "let it go" in the sense that I can still enjoy that person's company & share a friendship.

But we'll never, ever be the same as we were before. It's impossible -- just as it's impossible to be "the same" after a moment of intense joy. We've changed.

That said, I am NOT what anyone would consider "a softie" in the forgiveness department. Deception is something that will forever lower my opinion of someone.

*shrug* I am what I am.

I agree with impressive. Though I do forgive, I have a really hard time forgetting. Since I consider myself to be very loyal, I expect the same from people around me. When I am deceived, I never look at the person the same way again.

 

[jomar]

I agree with impressive. Though I do forgive, I have a really hard time forgetting. Since I consider myself to be very loyal, I expect the same from people around me. When I am deceived, I never look at the person the same way again.

I don't think forgiving is about forgetting. Why forget what someone did and set yourself up for the same thing happening again? Things may never be the same between people, but it doesn't mean they can't be good.

 

[elsol]

I was hoping that you could forgive me. I hope you won't take revenge. They say it is sweet.

A decision on revenge is based on wrong vs. group action for 'righting the wrong'; In about 99.99% of actions, the consequential group action makes the revenge not worthwhile.

In other words, some people's good nature about me sometimes poking them with a sharp stick might go away if I were to go completely off the deep end on you.

Plus, like I said... I consider myself to be anomalous in the emotional stuff... all you people keep talking about things I've never felt like 'regret'.

*shrug*

 

[neonlyte]

I've been away for a few days. Part of that time has been spent coming to terms with the death of a close family member whom I freely admit was not liked, not by me, not by most people who encountered her. She was evil in the true of evilness, a troublemaker, devious, dishonest, foul-mouthed, and in recent years, bedridden, demanding constant attention beyond that she deserved. At the end of her days, I'm feel the need to find forgiveness in death, that her life (anyones life) was more than the face she chose to present. It has not been an easy few days. I'll expand on this later, when I've sorted my thoughts.