Why do readers take things to extremes?

[capecodmercury]

I'm stumped.

I can understand a reader not liking one of my stories. I don't like everything I read either. Some of the best correspondence I've had with authors or readers has been the result of disagreements. I honestly don't mind legitimate negative feedback. It just makes me strive to do a better job next time.

I know my stories tend to get a lot of contradictory comments and I consider that a good thing. There are times when the discussion going on in the public comments gets very intense. I write to make people think, not to make them agree with me. At least a person who takes the time to write a comment arguing about what I have written is taking the time to think about it.

I don't even mind the trolls. When I get the illiterate anonymous comments, I just laugh them off as a cost of writing in the Loving Wives category. I don't bother to delete them, I like to leave them up so everyone can see how foolish they really are.

But this time, I just don't understand it. What could possibly motivate a reader not only to one bomb me and write a negative comment, but also to continue their criticism in other public comments that they have written? Why in the hell would anyone take what I write that seriously?

Yesterday I had a story posted, "Let the Punishment Fit the Crime." http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=264586
It's just a story. Some liked it, some didn't. I was happy with it. I was also please that most of the authors that read it also liked it. Some of the feedback got incredibly personal. I can deal with that.

One anonymous comment I found real interesting was one that applauded my writing style while castigating my plots since they didn'ty agree with the commenter's view of the world. To him I became a "wordmeister".

At first I found this amusing. It's the type of closemindedness that is all too prevalent in today's society. But then I read the comments to Charleybear's "She Cheated, Now What" (Which was a very interesting story by the way). I was amazed that "Harryin VA" and my anonymous critic friend decided to take shots at me in those comments as well.

Does anyone have any idea what could motivate something like this? You don't like what I write or my view of the world, fine. Criticize me to my face or in private. I can take it. But why in the hell do you need to do it in the public comments on other pieces.

I'm just frustrated I guess.

Til nest time

Capecodmercury

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Does anyone have any idea what could motivate something like this?

Two words: Loving Wives

There's just no other category like it, and if you write in it a lot, you know it...
The category has rabid followers and readers and the Feedback Portal is *always* FULL of LW comments... it seems that's what they do... they use the comment section of the stories to debate some clearly personal issues...

if it really bothers you, my suggestion would be just to turn off public feedback in that category...

barring that, there's not much to be done, other than to just laugh it off... *shrug*

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

All it takes is writing something that seriously pisses one of the little trolls off. Trust me, I know from experience. Last year, I had my own personal little brute who peppered other authors stories with public comments about how awful of a writer I was. It'll stop... eventually (at least by that particular troll). It took mine about a month of being ignored before it finally went away.

 

[rgraham666]

Does anyone have any idea what could motivate something like this?

I lean towards the mental disturbance explanation myself. Paranoia with a touch of obsessive/compulsive behaviour thrown in.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Two words: Loving Wives

There's just no other category like it, and if you write in it a lot, you know it...
The category has rabid followers and readers and the Feedback Portal is *always* FULL of LW comments... it seems that's what they do... they use the comment section of the stories to debate some clearly personal issues...

if it really bothers you, my suggestion would be just to turn off public feedback in that category...

barring that, there's not much to be done, other than to just laugh it off... *shrug*

What she said! *nods head knowingly*

 

[S-Des]

You know how much I get slammed, buddy. The last one was much better writing and had about a half dozen prereaders who all loved it, yet I got some incredibly bizarre comments. On After The Fact, one guy was moved to leave a 6300 word essay about how flawed my decisions were. Nobody's been compelled to talk about me elsewhere (as far as I know), but you saw the slamming Ohio took on my boards during the last story. It happens to good writers. Don't let it get you down. I'll check out the story soon, I didn't get to see it the first time around.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

It just astounds me the length and amount of comments for this story and other stories in the LW category. It's the only category I know of where the readers will write you a novel in response to a short story, lol. Passionate would be a kind way to describe it, but I think Rob was closer when he said paranoid/obsessive-compulsive.

 

[Guest]

It's a simple if puzzling fact that some readers get terribly upset if a particular story does not fulfill their fantasy needs. It's almost as if the time they spent reading it was a first date and they sprang for the good wine, flowers, and a steak dinner but you didn't put out. Really, they'd be better off thinking of it as meeting for coffee (split Dutch) and backing out as soon as the story seems unlikey to do as they'd like, but, no...they want their "money" back.

Also, occasionally, the way a writer presents a story will directly contradict a reader's fantasy/desire and the reader is affronted, feeling as if someone has proclaimed them to be -- somehow, mysteriously -- "wrong". General observation reveals how little people on average like to be "wrong" and to what extremes they will go to demonstrate they are "right".

The best thing to do is Consider The Source. Is this person anyone who's opinion you'd solicit? Are they talking about your story or about their own dissapointment with the outcome of some contract existing in their head alone? There are those who espouse that every opinion is valid and every comment is useful, but I don't agree with that -- some opinions are worthless and some comments are useless (if every opinion is valid and useful, why are there so many book reviewers and movie critics, and why do we pick favorites and think others are asses?)

Take a deep breath, shake it off, and let it go. You can't win anything by arguing. Your story has to stand up for itself. No matter what anyone writes, there is someone somewhere who hates it and has no trouble telling the world in great detail. There are even people who think Stephen King is a lousy writer!

 

[dirtyjoe69]

it is simple some of these guys that are "Anonymous" have spent way to much time jerking off to porn and now blame the stories. And because they were too busy with reading and looking they now are just wallowing in their self pity and need someone to take it out on! My loving wives story was just that. Did my wife cheat in it...YES, but I also made it so the guy was accepting and some jackass still couldn't handle it....

I just don't understand if they get so upset reading a certain topic why they bother....I guess feeling angry is better than feeling guilty for not paying attention to your better half....speaking of that I have been on here and writing way too much today

Time for some wife time!!

 

[AchtungNight]

I've suffered from dumb negative comments too. One of the hazards of writing fanfic is that you work with characters and stories that are already publicly known and viewed so differently by so many different people that there is just no way to satisfy them all. You can only hope to hit as many fans as you can as hard as you must, then move on. Example from one of my own recent stories- use a popular softball player from your favorite college, put her at the Olympics so she's on a stage most readers will know, give her a hidden piece of clothing that's a nod to one of her school's most rabid rivals just in case their fans read the story, plug her favorite book, her favorite musician, her favorite activities- even the ones at which she sucks-, etc, etc, etc. Throw it all together, weave in your own spin however you can, then toss the story out. Hope it gets across to readers. Satirize and parody as much as you can, as obviously as you can, without going overboard. Keep your sex hot no matter what, and if you have a point to make, concentrate on it and allow nothing- I mean nothing- to distract you. If you do all this right (not saying I always have), I've found you can avoid the ire of most trolls.

{sighs} Of course, there are still some whose attention you'll attract anyway. The best way I've found to fight those is to respond to their comments with one swift burst of passionate defense of what you did. Slice through the Gordian knot of their dumb little opinions. If they dare to continue the debate (and most won't), keep lashing out at them till they or you are both exhausted (and you should probably give up first). Then put the emotions aside, take some time, don't think about them. Concentrate on the good in your story. Leave the comments up for a few days as a deterrent to future trolls. Then once the story has faded into the background some, if possible take down the comments the trolls made and your responses. You don't want anybody's stupid heated opinions ruining your work's ending.

Remember the words of Rudyard Kipling. "If you can make one heap of all your winnings, and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss... And lose, and start again at your beginnings... And never breathe a word about your loss."

 

[elsol]

*burp*

It is soul-deep pain for a troll to see others do so well what they wish to dearly to be able to do but cannot.

Really... you should feel bad for them.

I don't but I'm insensitive and I personally think God put trolls and others like them on this world to make feel better about myself.

"Damn, I'm pathe... Hi...oooh... yeeaaah, actually I'm not doing too bad."


Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[FallingToFly]

I RCV'ed... although you probably hate me now...

 

[JamesSD]

It's a simple if puzzling fact that some readers get terribly upset if a particular story does not fulfill their fantasy needs. It's almost as if the time they spent reading it was a first date and they sprang for the good wine, flowers, and a steak dinner but you didn't put out. Really, they'd be better off thinking of it as meeting for coffee (split Dutch) and backing out as soon as the story seems unlikey to do as they'd like, but, no...they want their "money" back.

While this is true, in most categories people don't bother reading stories they know they won't like. I don't read gay male stories, and rarely read romance, because these aren't my cup of tea. I also don't go wandering into Gay stories and say "not enough hot chicks" or Romance and say "Too slow, not enough hot sex."

Somehow the readers of Loving Wives are different, in particular the small, vocal minority who hate cheating wives and "wimps".

 

[MagicaPractica]

I'm stumped.

If you met them in person you'd probably recognize the crazy glint in their eye but since you only see the comment they write, you assume they are a sane critic, don't. I've met some really whacked people online. Also, anybody who writes has to accept they are going to get bad reviews, you can either not read your reviews or decide whether you agree. Just don't agonize over them. It's not worth that. Cheers.

 

[capecodmercury]

Thanks for the replies.

Well, i'm over my fit of peckishness. I think what bothered me this afternoon wasn't the negative comments. I've developed a thick skin after reading the review of some of my earlier posts.

What stumped me was seeing the backhand slams and attacks in the comments to another story. I just wasn't expecting it and it threw me for a loop. I guess I should know better than to get bothered by a comment from Harryin VA.

I think I can heartily endorse Rob's comments about Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. At least it gives me a better image than some of the things I think of when I spot a troll.

Oh and FallingtoFly, I'd never hate you. Comments like yours are music to a writers eyes.

Like many writers, I don't care if you hate a story, just tell me why.

CCM

 

[dirtyjoe69]

heck you think loving wives is bad you should see the emails i got when i wrote my gay male story or any story for that matter that has gay or bisexual activity between men in it...or just a woman using a dildo on a guy for that matter....LMFAO

I don't lose sleep over it. At first it bothered me but now I just say to myself. Bad press is better than no press!

 

[S-Des]

While this is true, in most categories people don't bother reading stories they know they won't like. I don't read gay male stories, and rarely read romance, because these aren't my cup of tea. I also don't go wandering into Gay stories and say "not enough hot chicks" or Romance and say "Too slow, not enough hot sex."

Somehow the readers of Loving Wives are different, in particular the small, vocal minority who hate cheating wives and "wimps".

That's simply not true. I've seen brutal comments in NC about how sick the author must be to write about something nonconsentual. Same with Incest. Every category has enough variety in the stories that you might read something you didn't anticipate (or you're so desperate to spew venom that you find a story that pushes your buttons and you take it out on the author).

There's an NC story about kidnapping that I heard about due to the New Stories Review thread. I checked it out and found that the writing was fascinating on many levels. After reading a chapter or two, I found myself desperately rooting for the bad guys to get theirs (it's still not finished, so I don't know if they will get away with it or not). The comments are a mixed bag of 100% saying how brilliantly it's written and how you feel the character's pain, and 0% saying the author is a sick fuck who needs to get professional help and stop writing crap like this.

Any story that pushes boundaries will get love and hate from readers. Most of the haters choose to use anonymous, but not all of them. Some of the meanest comments (and most misguided ones) on my stories have a name attached to them. I shrug and take the bad with the good. As long as I'm confident I accomplished what I tried to, I don't worry about it too much.

CapeCod, welcome to the board if no one else has said it. It's a nice place with good people (who only annoy me occasionally).

 

[rgraham666]

I can relate to the weirdness in NC.

Only one story in that cat so far. It was Reluctance rather than NC as the female protagonist really had to be convince. There wasn't a hint of violence or rape in it. Any pressure the guy bought to bear was entirely psychological and rotated around stoking the fire inside the woman.

But the first comments on it! I wondered if they read the same story I wrote.

As that old cartoon line goes, "Humans are the craziest people."

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

heck you think loving wives is bad you should see the emails i got when i wrote my gay male story or any story for that matter that has gay or bisexual activity between men in it...or just a woman using a dildo on a guy for that matter....LMFAO

I don't lose sleep over it. At first it bothered me but now I just say to myself. Bad press is better than no press!

Seriously, on one story (not on Lit) that involved twin brothers being lovers, I got a serious e-mail talking about how "I fucking hate shit dobbers". Then why read a story that has codes CLEARLY indicating gay sex? What's with such people? Or people that read Mind Control and complain that someone is controlling the minds of others....DUH!

If I don't think that I am likely to enjoy a story, I DON'T read it!

By the way, that story was a collaboration with my gf, and she got the same feedback from the same guy for it, since we were both credited for the story.

 

[Guest]

Seriously, on one story (not on Lit) that involved twin brothers being lovers, I got a serious e-mail talking about how "I fucking hate shit dobbers". Then why read a story that has codes CLEARLY indicating gay sex? What's with such people? Or people that read Mind Control and complain that someone is controlling the minds of others....DUH!

If I don't think that I am likely to enjoy a story, I DON'T read it!

By the way, that story was a collaboration with my gf, and she got the same feedback from the same guy for it, since we were both credited for the story.

There's a weird process in that idea I've noticed. I really suspect that some people read stories just to find things about which to bitch. Or they are looking in a catagory for something very specific they want, and just don't have the brains to accept that not every story will suit them.

No, seriously. I've heard it said on this thread and in others how people aren't going to go into a catagory they don't like to read because it doesn't make sense and how can they have their fantasies dissapointed if they are reading in the catagories they like, but that's a generalization. Check out the GLBT forum or BSDM for easy examples -- there are groups of people who like (and ONLY like) very specific activities which get lumped into a larger catagory.

Say, for instance, a guy is very much into blowjobs from other guys, but other than that, for whatever reason, he doesn't like anything else. In fact, he's strongly opposed to anything else (There are threads with this topic). So he goes into Gay Male wanting a blow job story, and he reads one with anal sex, and his fantasy is dissapointed so he spouts off at the writer. It's that writer's fault, obviously, because the writer isn't writing MM Blowjob stories. It isn't sensible, it isn't logical, but then, how many of us have experienced from others or even in ourselves an illogical reaction to a thing? (If you haven't, you are an admirable specifmen, and don't talk to me ).

It could be masturbation, it could be circle jerks, it could be peeking (Does it go into Voyeurism or Gay Male? The catagories, as has been discussed to death, are not as specific as to lead someone to a particular activity with particularly gendered participants), it could be licking eyeballs (oculolinctus and how many folks get off on this that it has a Latin word describing it?). The point is, and I think evidence makes a good case, people go into a story expecting to get their fantasy, and some react badly when they are dissapointed, never realizing that they can stop reading any time and look for something else. If they don't get what they want, they have to blame the writer for Not Knowing, and they sometimes exibit their frustration with childlike tantrums (occasionally of great length and detail).

There's also a huge "I have an opinion and you should know it" factor.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

There's a weird process in that idea I've noticed. I really suspect that some people read stories just to find things about which to bitch. Or they are looking in a catagory for something very specific they want, and just don't have the brains to accept that not every story will suit them.

No, seriously. I've heard it said on this thread and in others how people aren't going to go into a catagory they don't like to read because it doesn't make sense and how can they have their fantasies dissapointed if they are reading in the catagories they like, but that's a generalization. Check out the GLBT forum or BSDM for easy examples -- there are groups of people who like (and ONLY like) very specific activities which get lumped into a larger catagory.

Say, for instance, a guy is very much into blowjobs from other guys, but other than that, for whatever reason, he doesn't like anything else. In fact, he's strongly opposed to anything else (There are threads with this topic). So he goes into Gay Male wanting a blow job story, and he reads one with anal sex, and his fantasy is dissapointed so he spouts off at the writer. It's that writer's fault, obviously, because the writer isn't writing MM Blowjob stories. It isn't sensible, it isn't logical, but then, how many of us have experienced from others or even in ourselves an illogical reaction to a thing? (If you haven't, you are an admirable specifmen, and don't talk to me ).

It could be masturbation, it could be circle jerks, it could be peeking (Does it go into Voyeurism or Gay Male? The catagories, as has been discussed to death, are not as specific as to lead someone to a particular activity with particularly gendered participants), it could be licking eyeballs (oculolinctus and how many folks get off on this that it has a Latin word describing it?). The point is, and I think evidence makes a good case, people go into a story expecting to get their fantasy, and some react badly when they are dissapointed, never realizing that they can stop reading any time and look for something else. If they don't get what they want, they have to blame the writer for Not Knowing, and they sometimes exibit their frustration with childlike tantrums (occasionally of great length and detail).

There's also a huge "I have an opinion and you should know it" factor.

Well, you have a number of good points, especially the last. However, I personally try to minimize my reading of stories I don't like by taking an educated guess as to what I will like or not like. Of course, being a Reviewer, I can't totally avoid such stories, but I can be reasonably selective. I don't want my personal prejudices causing me to vote down or comment against a story that might have quality but has a theme or fetish that doesn't appeal to me. I've been guilty of that in the past. I also just don't want the aggravation or anger. And to me, there is no point in sharing my opinion with people who mostly don't give a damn what I think. It's a waste of my time. If I want a debate, I go to a political thread on the AH.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Somehow the readers of Loving Wives are different, in particular the small, vocal minority who hate cheating wives and "wimps".

That's simply not true. I've seen brutal comments in NC about how sick the author must be to write about something nonconsentual.

Yes, there are people who will use non-consent or incest stories as a sounding-off point... and anal, too... I've had some weird comments about my anal stories...

however, the LW crowd is MUCH more vocal and amazingly prolific in their sounding off... the Feedback Portal is full of LW feedback ALL DAY LONG. Seriously. These stories get 30-40-upwards of 100 comments sometimes. While there may be 1,2, maybe 5 or 6 comments on a nonconsent or incest or anal story where someone objects to the content. LW stories are almost always THE most commented on. Right now, as I'm writing this 8 out of the 10 most commented upon stories in the past 7 days are LW stories.

So I think there is a quantitative difference in the LW category.

I wonder if those who post in LW would do so with the comment section turned off? Because I think 3113 is on to something when she says there is a back and forth going on between writer/reader... they're each getting something out of the exchange.

That said (before S-Des hits me over the head with a trout or something ) I don't begrudge people posting stories there, or reading them...

but that there is a definite phenomenon going on in that particular category is just undeniable, given the evidence...

 

[Guest]

Well, you have a number of good points, especially the last. However, I personally try to minimize my reading of stories I don't like by taking an educated guess as to what I will like or not like. Of course, being a Reviewer, I can't totally avoid such stories, but I can be reasonably selective. I don't want my personal prejudices causing me to vote down or comment against a story that might have quality but has a theme or fetish that doesn't appeal to me. I've been guilty of that in the past. I also just don't want the aggravation or anger. And to me, there is no point in sharing my opinion with people who mostly don't give a damn what I think. It's a waste of my time. If I want a debate, I go to a political thread on the AH.

I agree with you. I've started reading many stories and stopped because it wasn't going anywhere I wanted to go. I feel no compulsion to read what I don't like, and I do NOT buy the idea that "it gets better as you go". Sorry, there are too many stories to read to spend time waiting for something to get better. I can go find something that's better right from the start. If I'm going to read something I don't like, I'll be doing it for a friend and I'll be making comments as I go.

But I'm speculating that other people haven't come to that realization. They don't think in those terms (a surprising number of people who read have a "clean your plate" mentality about stories and books. It's some kind of freakish badge of honor to waste time reading what you don't really like or something, like the story will go to waste and some kid in Africa would think they are so lucky to get it...)

I mean, I can't come up with a good explanation for completely off the wall, angry, insulting comments on a story other than 1) assholes 2) dissapointed people who felt entitled and got angry 3)people with nothing better to do. It's fine to say "This story wasn't the story I thought I'd get when I started reading, and I didn't like the ending because..." or something like that, but sometimes, really, it's as if the reader took the story as a personal insult.

 

[S-Des]

That said (before S-Des hits me over the head with a trout or something ) I don't begrudge people posting stories there, or reading them...

but that there is a definite phenomenon going on in that particular category is just undeniable, given the evidence...

Watch it there, girlie . . . *Stands with trout at the ready*

 

[capecodmercury]

I wonder if those who post in LW would do so with the comment section turned off? Because I think 3113 is on to something when she says there is a back and forth going on between writer/reader... they're each getting something out of the exchange.

That said (before S-Des hits me over the head with a trout or something ) I don't begrudge people posting stories there, or reading them...

Nope, no Trout Here. But, I do have a Bass handy, although, truth be known, I'd rather talk about it over a Guiness.

I suppose I could turn the comment section off, but Why? I can live with the trolls and idiots but I value the comments of the select few who actually take the time to make intelligent comments. Loving Wives has more than it's share of idiots, but it also has some people who post very cogent comments and they have helped my writing immensly.

Oh, this morning, I came up with a theory about why some of the slams occur. I may be getting above myself, but it does seem that the better authors do attract more than their share of flames and trolls.

As to why, I've heard the theory that the trolls are doing it because they feel inadequate. They know they can't match the storytelling, but I think it goes deeper.

When some of these trolls read a good story that doesn't fit in with their view of the world they feel threatened. The better thought out the story, the harder it is for them to contradict the position it is espousing and the angrier they get. I sometime wonder if the reason they attack so hard is because they find themselves agreeing with the stories and hating themselves.