why conservatives suck
- Thread starter WriterDom
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Purple Haze
Literally Stimulated
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They think homos can be cured.
They're still scared of Russia.
They think only the rich deserve doctors.
They love a freshly paved parking lot.
They think socialism and communism are the same thing.
They're pretty sure marijuana makes men grow boobs.
They can't stand the fact that John Wayne's real name was Marion.
They think kindergarten should have weapons training.
They all dress alike.
They're still scared of Russia.
They think only the rich deserve doctors.
They love a freshly paved parking lot.
They think socialism and communism are the same thing.
They're pretty sure marijuana makes men grow boobs.
They can't stand the fact that John Wayne's real name was Marion.
They think kindergarten should have weapons training.
They all dress alike.
Ambrosious
Weaver of Written Worlds
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PH
We're you beat up by a bunch of "Young Republicans" back in grade school or something?
We're you beat up by a bunch of "Young Republicans" back in grade school or something?
Texan
'nuf said
- Joined
- May 31, 2001
- Posts
- 2,146
if you think that was even remotely accurate
If you think the Haze's list was even remotely accurate, it explains why you are a liberal.
It may be funny..... but it's about as accurate as saying that all liberals are young, bra burning, tree hugging, soldier hating, yugo driving, pot smoking, Bible burning, black, lesbian, women.
lavender said:At times like these I just want to give Haze the biggest smooch in the world!
That was too funny to be so accurate.
If you think the Haze's list was even remotely accurate, it explains why you are a liberal.
It may be funny..... but it's about as accurate as saying that all liberals are young, bra burning, tree hugging, soldier hating, yugo driving, pot smoking, Bible burning, black, lesbian, women.
Purple Haze
Literally Stimulated
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2000
- Posts
- 19,290
We are.
Let me give it a go. I think the main issue concerning modern conservatism is the argument between the more left wing goal of a strong social democracy and the right wing concept of a more laissez-faire system. This is, I believe, what the argument originates from and what is still at it's core.
95% of the arguments on the board revolve around this. Be it socialized medicine or gun laws or welfare they all revolve around the level of government involvement in day to day lives and especially the level of government involvement when it comes to dollars and the marketplace.
And to be fair it is a legitimate debate with two very strong sides. Also, being as it is a debate whose main issue is money it should be a debate that is a fairly calm and friendly one. How then did the Left wing vs Right wing stew become such a bitter one?
I'd contend it has strongly to do with when it stopped being a argument about government involvement in the marketplace and started being a "liberal" vs "conservative" argument that covered things from abortion to homosexuality. When precisely did democrats become "Liberals"? And same with Republicans when did they go from being the proponents of the invisibile hand to the party we know as today?
First off I would contend that one of the fundamental flaws with conservative thinking(That has led to the swampy morass of modern politics) is a basic misunderstanding of Smith's concepts. Smith did in fact believe in little to no intereference in the market but only in a situation in which there was a true fairness, in which everyone(He probably thought white men but we'll update it a little) started out with an equal chance to exploit this free market. He was a champion of compeletely free education for all, which he thought would ensure that everyone would have equal opportunity to make their way. Obviously this wasn't realistsic. Smith was against inheritance but the wealthy weren't and as Smith said "any law would be passed in favour of the rich, against the poor" the government involvement Smith forsaw was the Rich getting their political lackeys to protect their interests against the poor.
Another problem with the theories that have stemmed from Smith is the tragic failure of the invisible hand. Smith believed that a free and independant market would lead to good things. Well paid workers, no monopolies and fair use of resources. What has been conclusively proven over the last 150 years is that capitalists, when left to their own devices, will squeeze every penny they can. So we've had monopolies, American workers being paid slave wages and the reckless pollution and extinction of animals all in the name of making that last dollar. The laws passed to correct these things (the EPA, Sherman Anti-trust and the minimum wage) are viewed as social democracy creeping up on the laissez faire and they are. But they were only brought about by the total and dismal failure of the invisible hands guiding capitalism to being good citizens. Social Democracy is not a concept picked out of nowhere saying "This system(Capitalism) is good but ours would be better" but out of "Capitalism has turned out to be completely contrary to Smith's philosophy in which the rich use their money to take the screws to their country, the planet and their fellow man. There has to be a new solution." Socialism, Communism and Socialized Democracy have all been flawed attempts to correct the flaws of capitalism.
But enough of me boring you with my views on Smith. The real breakdown between Smith's ideas and modern conservativism is the wave of social conservatism that seems to go hand in hand with fiscal conservatism. Bill Maher said "I'd vote Republican if the Republicans were really Republicans" and went on to launch on about how Republicans have become "The party that wants to make government small enough so that it can fit into your bedroom." and he has a point. Being for lower taxes or no welfare in the US(While voting for a party that has the slightest chance of winning anything) means that you go hand in hand with Homophobes, Racists(Admittedly it isn't a fundamental tenet but it's there) and people who think of Feminism as a ridiculous little exercise by a bunch of man haters who should have been makin' babies where they belong.
Conservatives, henceforth, have become very unconservative. Many of them want to know whats going on in your bedroom and want to control what you're allowed to put into your body and as such ahve become more totalitarian than conservative. If conservative policy was "Live your life as you like" but had differences on economic issues I could at the very least find a common ground with Conservatives. We would simply disagree on fiscal matters(And environmental ones but that is besides the point) I can't find common ground with people who want to legislate adult sexuality or drug use or poltical affiliation(Bringing up McCarthy is, indeed, a low blow but a crucial one. He might be the origin of the social conservatism)
Henceforth modern Conservatives, are to me at any rate, an odd amalgam of misinformed Smith followers who seem to have skipped over huge chunks of his writing and social conservatives who seem to selectively read the US constitution.
95% of the arguments on the board revolve around this. Be it socialized medicine or gun laws or welfare they all revolve around the level of government involvement in day to day lives and especially the level of government involvement when it comes to dollars and the marketplace.
And to be fair it is a legitimate debate with two very strong sides. Also, being as it is a debate whose main issue is money it should be a debate that is a fairly calm and friendly one. How then did the Left wing vs Right wing stew become such a bitter one?
I'd contend it has strongly to do with when it stopped being a argument about government involvement in the marketplace and started being a "liberal" vs "conservative" argument that covered things from abortion to homosexuality. When precisely did democrats become "Liberals"? And same with Republicans when did they go from being the proponents of the invisibile hand to the party we know as today?
First off I would contend that one of the fundamental flaws with conservative thinking(That has led to the swampy morass of modern politics) is a basic misunderstanding of Smith's concepts. Smith did in fact believe in little to no intereference in the market but only in a situation in which there was a true fairness, in which everyone(He probably thought white men but we'll update it a little) started out with an equal chance to exploit this free market. He was a champion of compeletely free education for all, which he thought would ensure that everyone would have equal opportunity to make their way. Obviously this wasn't realistsic. Smith was against inheritance but the wealthy weren't and as Smith said "any law would be passed in favour of the rich, against the poor" the government involvement Smith forsaw was the Rich getting their political lackeys to protect their interests against the poor.
Another problem with the theories that have stemmed from Smith is the tragic failure of the invisible hand. Smith believed that a free and independant market would lead to good things. Well paid workers, no monopolies and fair use of resources. What has been conclusively proven over the last 150 years is that capitalists, when left to their own devices, will squeeze every penny they can. So we've had monopolies, American workers being paid slave wages and the reckless pollution and extinction of animals all in the name of making that last dollar. The laws passed to correct these things (the EPA, Sherman Anti-trust and the minimum wage) are viewed as social democracy creeping up on the laissez faire and they are. But they were only brought about by the total and dismal failure of the invisible hands guiding capitalism to being good citizens. Social Democracy is not a concept picked out of nowhere saying "This system(Capitalism) is good but ours would be better" but out of "Capitalism has turned out to be completely contrary to Smith's philosophy in which the rich use their money to take the screws to their country, the planet and their fellow man. There has to be a new solution." Socialism, Communism and Socialized Democracy have all been flawed attempts to correct the flaws of capitalism.
But enough of me boring you with my views on Smith. The real breakdown between Smith's ideas and modern conservativism is the wave of social conservatism that seems to go hand in hand with fiscal conservatism. Bill Maher said "I'd vote Republican if the Republicans were really Republicans" and went on to launch on about how Republicans have become "The party that wants to make government small enough so that it can fit into your bedroom." and he has a point. Being for lower taxes or no welfare in the US(While voting for a party that has the slightest chance of winning anything) means that you go hand in hand with Homophobes, Racists(Admittedly it isn't a fundamental tenet but it's there) and people who think of Feminism as a ridiculous little exercise by a bunch of man haters who should have been makin' babies where they belong.
Conservatives, henceforth, have become very unconservative. Many of them want to know whats going on in your bedroom and want to control what you're allowed to put into your body and as such ahve become more totalitarian than conservative. If conservative policy was "Live your life as you like" but had differences on economic issues I could at the very least find a common ground with Conservatives. We would simply disagree on fiscal matters(And environmental ones but that is besides the point) I can't find common ground with people who want to legislate adult sexuality or drug use or poltical affiliation(Bringing up McCarthy is, indeed, a low blow but a crucial one. He might be the origin of the social conservatism)
Henceforth modern Conservatives, are to me at any rate, an odd amalgam of misinformed Smith followers who seem to have skipped over huge chunks of his writing and social conservatives who seem to selectively read the US constitution.
Sparky Kronkite
Spam Eater Extraordinare'
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Maybe this is more accurate......
Conservatives.......
Are generally "concerned" and often out right afraid of those who are different from themselves.
Either want more (money/power/connections) for themselves and their like constituants - or demand it. They feel that this - will protect them from - those different from themselves.
Are generally unwilling to except the fact that, "social complexities and thus social diversity," increases - as the base line of basic human knowlegde increases.
Are bigots - but they deny it.
Conservatives.......
Are generally "concerned" and often out right afraid of those who are different from themselves.
Either want more (money/power/connections) for themselves and their like constituants - or demand it. They feel that this - will protect them from - those different from themselves.
Are generally unwilling to except the fact that, "social complexities and thus social diversity," increases - as the base line of basic human knowlegde increases.
Are bigots - but they deny it.
Problem Child
titleless
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- 27,935
Wow...I have really been searching for a thread full of blanket generalizations and extreme accusations and I've finally found it!
Eureka!
Now time to check out the "Why liberals suck" thread.
I wonder if it's as entertaining...
Eureka!
Now time to check out the "Why liberals suck" thread.
I wonder if it's as entertaining...
Sparky Kronkite
Spam Eater Extraordinare'
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Oh I fogot. They often forward this agenda....
Waving a flag, thumping a bible and spewing verbage regarding respect for those long gone.
This "sheild" protects them from attack by Liberals and it does so very, very well. Consevatives can turn the tables on attacking Liberals so easily by utilizing this sheild - claiming Liberals are not patriotic, don't beleive in God and disrespect all laws and history.
Waving a flag, thumping a bible and spewing verbage regarding respect for those long gone.
This "sheild" protects them from attack by Liberals and it does so very, very well. Consevatives can turn the tables on attacking Liberals so easily by utilizing this sheild - claiming Liberals are not patriotic, don't beleive in God and disrespect all laws and history.
Purple Haze
Literally Stimulated
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Hey! Some of my best friends are conservatives.
unusuallyconfused
BLUE EYED BABE
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- 1,253
Purple Haze said:They think homos can be cured.
They're still scared of Russia.
That part I confess, is true.
They think only the rich deserve doctors.
Don't believe that at all. Just work with enough doctors to know what we'll get if we go the socialized route. I would never ever be for a plan that wouldn't help people who need it.
They love a freshly paved parking lot.
Yep.........
They think socialism and communism are the same thing.
No, I don't.
They're pretty sure marijuana makes men grow boobs.
I am a conservative who has gotten high for years on a recreational basis.........don't do it any longer.......I was corrupted!
They can't stand the fact that John Wayne's real name was Marion.
I wasn't a huge duke fan.
They think kindergarten should have weapons training.
Yeah, right.
They all dress alike.
I don't have earrings anywhere but my ears. If that makes me the same.........I do wear black leather boots with a mini skirt and tank.........dosn't sound conservative to me....
Texan
'nuf said
- Joined
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- Posts
- 2,146
WOW
unusuallyconfused said:Purple Haze said:
I don't have earrings anywhere but my ears. If that makes me the same.........I do wear black leather boots with a mini skirt and tank.........dosn't sound conservative to me....
WOW again....
I am a conservative, and I only wear my black leather (jack boots) with my black jumpsuit....
unusual.... I like the way you dress a whole lot better....
unusuallyconfused
BLUE EYED BABE
- Joined
- May 22, 2001
- Posts
- 1,253
Re: WOW
Thanks Texas, I do try to please!!!!!!!!
Texan said:
WOW again....
I am a conservative, and I only wear my black leather (jack boots) with my black jumpsuit....
unusual.... I like the way you dress a whole lot better....
Thanks Texas, I do try to please!!!!!!!!
Sparky Kronkite
Spam Eater Extraordinare'
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I tell ya......
My grandparents, my parents, my wife's parents and most importantly - the people I have worked for and with the past 25 years - are so WASP, so friggin' white (as am I of course) and so freakin' conservative - you'd think some would've worn off on me, now wouldn't ya.
But the contrary has taken place.
Because I see it - because I see the connections, I see the politics, I see the coniving, I see the games, I see the greed, I see all the the bullshit of big corporate, Fortune 500, white and in control America - and all from the inside at a front row seat too........
I've sat with Ted Turner, I've sat with George Steinbrener (and many more too.)
All that, it opened my eyes to the total hypocrisy of all "what we loosely call Conservatism."
They are not religious, they don't give a shit about history and they damn sure don't give a crap about being a patriot. There are only two primary things that drive Conservative political thinking in the US and those two things are.......
Accumulating power and money via greed......
And keeping it.
My grandparents, my parents, my wife's parents and most importantly - the people I have worked for and with the past 25 years - are so WASP, so friggin' white (as am I of course) and so freakin' conservative - you'd think some would've worn off on me, now wouldn't ya.
But the contrary has taken place.
Because I see it - because I see the connections, I see the politics, I see the coniving, I see the games, I see the greed, I see all the the bullshit of big corporate, Fortune 500, white and in control America - and all from the inside at a front row seat too........
I've sat with Ted Turner, I've sat with George Steinbrener (and many more too.)
All that, it opened my eyes to the total hypocrisy of all "what we loosely call Conservatism."
They are not religious, they don't give a shit about history and they damn sure don't give a crap about being a patriot. There are only two primary things that drive Conservative political thinking in the US and those two things are.......
Accumulating power and money via greed......
And keeping it.
