Why are we still bombing Afghanistan?

[p_p_man]

We've all seen the pictures. Mud huts, Red Cross depots, civilians and other non-military targets (no, targets is the wrong word - it implies they were actually being aimed at ) casuaties, that's better, all being blown to smithereens without any tangible result.

The Talaban are still in place, bin Laden is God knows where and the anti-war movement is growing stronger and larger to embrace the murder of 13 Christians whilst they were at prayer. This is no longer a "war" against terrorism, this is now a "war" against nothing. It's continuing because Bush is too spineless to be a man and admit that the contuing bombing of an empty space is a big mistake.

He's afraid of losing face...

And despite his cowboy. gung-ho attitude to life the man has absolutely nothing going for him at all. He could calm the whole situation down in a moment by stopping his present course of action. Maybe then he'd have more time to concentrate on the anthrax attacks.

But will he suddenly surprise us all and do something sensible for a change. I doubt it. He's too much of a child of his time. Hollywood born, raised and bred...

So for the moment we all have to watch whilst this "war" develops into a proper one. You know the kind I mean, where thousands of people are killed daily, the world is disrupted, maybe this time beyond repair, and we all go to hell in a handbasket...

All Bush has to do is say "Stop".

 

[nasty]

Here, here. If I hear we bombed Kabul, AGAIN, I'll SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What's the use of bombing empty space?

 

[Azwed]

I agree that there is nothing left to bomb.

We shoud be moving more troops in to try and track down bin ladden/associates.

They are trying to catch members of the taliban now, but they need more man power.

Oh no but if we send in more troops then Johnny might get shot. Boo hooo its not like he got drafted. Every man and woman in the armed forces went in there willingly and knew the risks. The special forces people knew the risks were higher for them.

There is less chance of us killing innocents with small to medium special forces and light infangtry raids then with bombing as well.

 

[shadowsource]

This will take a long time -

There's no other way to do it. Air and ground forces. Anyone who thinks it will be easy, or that our health services won't look silly while they learn how to cope with CBW, is foolish. This is a war and it will be long and messy. Though they have to be as careful as possible in the bombings, these have to continue. There's a kind of hypocrisy in all of the people complaining (including the Northern Alliance, before and after we accidentally bombed them) that we're not carpet bombing, and then complaining if we make a mistake. They're trying to be surgical and it seems to be taking a toll, mostly where it's supposed to. But bombing cannot end the war.

pp - you really think Bush shoudl stop the war? And then what? The forces come home. And we wait for the surviving cells and the new cells to kill us all? Are you serious?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

You're right. It's been three weeks. The war should be over. So what if every time the Special Forces go in they find new intelligence revealing new targets? So what if we aren't made privy to the covert missions that need cover? So what if the whole idea is to get the Taliban froces on the move so they can be engaged? So what? Geez! I want to get back to my movies and TV and CD collection and stuff. What's with all this, ya know, distraction and stuff? I mean, come on you guys...!

 

[Guru]

 

[Mensa]

He's afraid of losing face...

And despite his cowboy. gung-ho attitude to life the man has absolutely nothing going for him at all. He could calm the whole situation down in a moment by stopping his present course of action. Maybe then he'd have more time to concentrate on the anthrax attacks.

And leave "Gunga" Blair all on his own? Not very sporting!

 

[Problem Child]

I love it when civilians with no military experience, no reliable intelligence sources, and a TV tuned to fucking Wolf Blitzer and CNN 22 hrs. a day suddenly think they have some kind of insight into how to run a military campaign.

p_p_man, it's time for your nightly "shut the hell up", and as per our usual arrangement, you know I mean that in the way most favorable to Anglo-American relations.

 

[Azwed]

You tell him PC.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: This will take a long time -

pp - you really think Bush shoudl stop the war?

No. Stop his present course of action. The war against terrorism isn't something Bush dreamed up. It's being going on in most countries of the world for years and years...

What I now see shadowsource is that despite the platitudes from our leaders that Moslems are a "kind and gentle people" I can't really go along with that. Individually, maybe, but underneath the different factions they are all followers of Islam.

If it had been a bunch of fanatical Christians who had shot and killed 13 Moslems in a Mosque yesterday instead of the other way around we all know what would have happened.

A bunch of Christians though. We just make noisy protests and shrug our shoulders.

The continuing bombing of Afghanistan gives the Islamic world a focal point and it is they who are calling this a "Holy War". It's probably what they've been determined to start from the beginning...

 

[Guest]

I love it when civilians with no military experience, no reliable intelligence sources, and a TV tuned to fucking Wolf Blitzer and CNN 22 hrs. a day suddenly think they have some kind of insight into how to run a military campaign.

bush-bashing again? give the guy a break, he's a recovering coke addict.

 

[Azwed]

How is that bush bashing??????????

I thought it was p_p_man bashing.

or brit bashing

 

[Problem Child]

I was talking to you and nasty too. You guys don't have to shut the hell up, that's just a little lovetap thing me and p_p_man do.

 

[Problem Child]

bush-bashing again? give the guy a break, he's a recovering coke addict.

That was pretty good for a troll. If you had a real name I'd talk you up around here.

 

[nasty]

*In best Peter Sellers voice*Yes, Mr. President. I've been holding that in for a few weeks. I'm lame, I know that already.

 

[p_p_man]

that's just a little lovetap thing me and p_p_man do.

It's getting beyond the love tap stage PC. Between us or anyone else.

In retaliation for the 13 Christians murdered in their church there is bound to be retaliation of an unknown (at the moment) number of Moslems being murdered in their Mosque. Taking the very volatile nature that the followers of Islam appear to be inflicted with, they will more than likely turn around and carry out an even larger atrocity against the Christian community.

The more I read and the more I hear I'm becoming more and more convinced that this is bin Laden's real hidden agenda, He craves that Holy War that Islam has been forecasting for years.

All Bush has to do to stop a world conflict based on religious grounds is to say stop to the present bombing. That will defuse the situation. There will no longer be a focal point that Islam can rally around.

If I can see it, why can't he?

Well, I know the answer that question...

 

[Problem Child]

It's getting beyond the love tap stage PC. Between us or anyone else.

In retaliation for the 13 Christians murdered in their church there is bound to be retaliation of an unknown (at the moment) number of Moslems being murdered in their Mosque. Taking the very volatile nature that the followers of Islam appear to be inflicted with, they will more than likely turn around and carry out an even larger atrocity against the Christian community.

Why should the murder of christians in pakistan by muslims affect our military operations against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban? Are we just supposed to ignore the terrorist cells operating out of Afghanistan? Are we supposed to roll over and play dead because Pakistan has a problem with Islamic fundamentalism? Our objective is to 1) destroy Al Qaeda's ability to wage large scale terrorism against us, and 2) dismantle the Taliban's grip on afghanistan. Pakistan's internal problems with it's religious nutcases are just that...pakistan's problems. Just because they are all riled up over us being there should not deter us from our objective.

The more I read and the more I hear I'm becoming more and more convinced that this is bin Laden's real hidden agenda, He craves that Holy War that Islam has been forecasting for years.

Of course he wants a fucking holy war! Don't you watch the news? Why is this a big shock to you? Are you afraid of facing down these nutcases that want to send everyone back to the middle ages? A few days ago you had a hard-on bragging about how badass the british military was, and how they were coming to save the day. Now you want to turn tail and run. Make up your friggin mind, dude.

All Bush has to do to stop a world conflict based on religious grounds is to say stop to the present bombing. That will defuse the situation. There will no longer be a focal point that Islam can rally around.

Yes, and then we slack off and they proclaim victory and sneak back into the U.S. and blow something else up. Then they rebuild their camps and train to hijack more airliners. Then they go about their business buying more anthrax from Iraq to mail to us. You're all about appeasement, my friend. Why doesn't the British government slack off on the IRA? Perhaps because that would be tantamount to giving up and letting them win?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I agree. We should just give Hitler Czechoslovakia and everything will be fine. Come on you guys!

 

[Guru]

 

[cymbidia]

Those who want a rallying point for a holy war would have siezed on anything. This is just a handy "thing". If it wasn't this, it would have been another issue next week.

Additionally, if we stop bombing, then many would-be terrorist will suddenly become *much* braver, certain that the big bad U.S. would swat them for a couple weeks and then retreat, too. We'd be well-and-truely terrorized within the borders of this country then.

Finally, the war on terrorism has been going on for years, yes. But we, the U.S., hasn't been in it the way we're now. We've never played this game before but when we play, we play to win. Always have. Always will.

Now get the fuck out of the way, stop whining about us not doing it your way (the way that hasn't accomplished anything much in all these years, i might add), and let us do what needs to be done.

 

[Pokerman]

I'm sorry some civilians have died in Afghanistan. here's a warning...get the fuck out, we're bombing you!!!!!

thats more of a warning than the people on those planes got. more than a warning the people in those buildings got.

really, i am sorry civilians and innocents died. But so did 6000 innocent civilians in NY and DC.

this is war. it's not some fucking video game. people die. they started it. we might not like it, but damnit we will end it.

and remember, we bombed iraq for something like 100 days....we have only just begun.

 

[p_p_man]

Yeah OK. 5,000 died in New York...

That a lot. Almost as many as the million or so kids who have been bombed out of existence in Iraq.

Yeah, OK. It happened on American soil. Well America (along with its puppet Britain) is certainly winning back ground advantage on that one.

Yeah, OK. It's not a video game. Well it certainly fucking looks like one from where I'm sitting.

Yeah, OK. Those who want a Holy War will seize on anything. Well they seized on this and Bush like the short-sighted fool I think he is walked straight into it.

Yeah OK. So we have to fight this war because the other guys won't back down if we don't. Well we've got nothing left to shoot at and the other guys still haven't backed down.

This is Bush's and Blairs's little action showpiece. It's a pity it's beginning to sit up and bite back.

 

[Guest]

 

[Pokerman]

This was in another thread, Honey...but I will answer here..

Bomb.

Would they care if it was an American holiday? Or Christian one? They certainly wouldn't care if it was a Jewish one. (See the Yom Kippur War...)

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Re: Yeah OK. 5,000 died in New York...

That a lot. Almost as many as the million or so kids who have been bombed out of existence in Iraq.

PPman, I knew you were a whacked-out nutcase, but are you telling me you actually believe this Saddam/Osama propaganda?

First of all, the number of children in Iraq that have died has been exaggerated. While the number is of deaths that occured is still horrendously high, relatively few have come from US bombing. The vast majority of deaths have come as a result of being deprived of food and medicines because of Saddam Hussein's refusal to give up his development of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. The sanctions have long had exceptions allowing Iraq to sell oil in exchange for medical supplies and other humanitarian relief aid, but Saddam has instead chosen to sell most of his oil illegally and put the profits toward building dozens of opulent new Presidential Palaces and continuing his weapons program. The responsibility for whatever atrocities have occured belong more to the Iraqis than to America.

The tyrants of the middle east who are creating this propaganda are counting on soft-hearted (and soft-headed) people like you to buy into their bullshit and it's obviously working to some degree. These people don't care for their people which they lambast the West for "killing". They're complicit in their deaths. Saddam put Iraqi women and children inside and around military installations for the purposes of either deterring US attacks or having them killed in attacks so they could complain about American "inhumanity". At any point he could have chosen the welfare of his people over stockpiling phosgene and smallpox. But he didn't.

Had there been a PPman and an internet bulletin board in the late thirties, I expect we'd have seen you applauding Neville Chamberlain for his brave attempts to stay out of war with that misunderstood Hitler guy.

Blair and Bush both told us from the outset that this would be a long, hard war. Did you not believe them? Do you think that we should be able to conquer a country in 3 weeks? Thank God you weren't around for the blitz. You'd have been waving a white flag to the Luftewaffe bombers flying over Trafalgar square within hours.

Where's that British stiff upper lip and "we'll muddle through it" attitude?

You're a disgrace, peepee-boy.