Why Are These Hate Crimes?

[Boxlicker101]

This is a report on two incidents in Sacramento:

http://amp.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article158102329.html

I understand it's an expression of hate or contempt, but why is it a crime, except for littering. I consider it to be legal under the First Amendment.

 

[butters]

if you don't get it already, i don't think explaining it will work....

hopefully someone with the patience and can-be-arsedness will be able to enlighten you. it's just not me. peace.

 

[Boxlicker101]

if you don't get it already, i don't think explaining it will work....

hopefully someone with the patience and can-be-arsedness will be able to enlighten you. it's just not me. peace.

I understand Muslims are highly offended by desecration of the Koran, but I don't believe such desecration is a crime of any kind. It is hate speech or a demonstration of hate or contempt but it is protected under the First Amendment. Some people are offended by desecration of a cross or a flag, but those are not illegal either.

 

[coachdb18]

I understand Muslims are highly offended by desecration of the Koran, but I don't believe such desecration is a crime of any kind. It is hate speech or a demonstration of hate or contempt but it is protected under the First Amendment. Some people are offended by desecration of a cross or a flag, but those are not illegal either.

The entire concept of a hate crime is alien to me for the same reason. Reminds me of 'A few good men', when Lt Kaffee asks Col Jessup if the need to get Pvt Santiago off the base was because he was in 'grave danger', to which Jessup responds 'is there any other kind'? I ask the same question about murder, is it 'super-murder' by calling it a 'hate crime', and therefor somehow worse than 'just' killing someone 'normally'? Or hurting the Koran is somehow more of a crime, and therefor so bad we suspend the protections of the US Constitution and its First Amendment protections to free speech? It's a ridiculous construct...

 

[Not Normal]

What a surprise, the white american men don't understand how burning another's sacred text after stuffing it with food its believers are forbidden to eat, is antagonistic and a hate crime.

 

[Ishmael]

What a surprise, the white american men don't understand how burning another's sacred text after stuffing it with food its believers are forbidden to eat, is antagonistic and a hate crime.

Well, they didn't behead them.

Idiot.

Ishmael

 

[Boxlicker101]

What a surprise, the white american men don't understand how burning another's sacred text after stuffing it with food its believers are forbidden to eat, is antagonistic and a hate crime.

I could do what you describe to a Bible or Torah and nobody would have much objection, although they might think it rather weird. Doing such things to those other sacred texts or to a Koran is reprehensible and antagonistic, but not a crime, therefore not a hate crime. It is Constitutionally protected free speech, just as burning a US flag is protected free speech.

Whatever others might believe, the Koran is a book, an inanimate object, and If I own one, I can dispose of it as I see fit. I did concede that one of the alleged crimes could be called littering, which is illegal but not a crime, as the word is usually understood.

 

[BotanyBoy]

This is a report on two incidents in Sacramento:

http://amp.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article158102329.html

I understand it's an expression of hate or contempt, but why is it a crime, except for littering. I consider it to be legal under the First Amendment.

It's not a hate crime, it's just hysterical social justice warriors flexing their situational outrage.

If someone did this to a bible and a church nobody would give a fuck and the same people who just can't believe you don't understand how this is a hate crime would be singing neener neener boo boo at those hateful Nazis who had it coming.

if you don't get it already, i don't think explaining it will work....

hopefully someone with the patience and can-be-arsedness will be able to enlighten you. it's just not me. peace.

What a surprise, the white american men don't understand how burning another's sacred text after stuffing it with food its believers are forbidden to eat, is antagonistic and a hate crime.

Oh look two social justice warriors who can't explain how this is a hate crime.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/98/ae/89/98ae891254f229842ff6e216eef76428.jpg

Probably the same people that call rioting, vandalism, arson and racially aggravated assault/attempted murder "peaceful protest" as long as it's their team doing it.

If you're so much as rude to the one of their pet demographics though....zomg HATE CRIME!!!!

LMAO

 

[Sweetsweatymango]

The koran is fucking hate speech. Its satanic dribble. The only good use for it is to wipe one's ass.

 

[hsnh]

I'm in between the two views expressed in this thread.


Imo, this is more than simple incivility or vandalism.
- In the current climate of islamophobia, and depending on the source, it can be seen as a threat. If I were a mosque attendee, I'd be scared to death and would stop attending.


But hate crime? Couldn't they find another term?
- I don't know much about law, but to me the term seems too general and open to interpretation and abuse.

For example: an american was just sentenced to 12 months in jail because he put bacon in front of a mosque. Even if he had a rap sheat this is unacceptable in a justice system that allows rapists to get probation only after 2 years in jail.
- That sentence was Orwellian.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

With crimes yuh gotta have victims with injuries or property damages. If you can burn a flag you can hang a Koran.

Littering is all you got.

 

[hsnh]

It's not a hate crime, it's just hysterical social justice warriors flexing their situational outrage.

I partially agree.

As reprehensible as I find the gesture (spitting on other people's worldview), it might well be the case that the perpetrator was a hysterical justice warrior who didn't intend to carry it further. Or just an immature teenager.

But there's also the dark side of it, and we don't know the intent of the perpetrator.
We shouldn't forget that in hindsight, many crimes (homicides or the arson of the mosque in Canada) were preceded by such gestures and signs.

If someone left on my front porch a similar thing or a "Go home, immigrant" sign, I would be very scared and would want Police to be aware of that person or to check on me periodically.

 

[Not Normal]

I could do what you describe to a Bible or Torah and nobody would have much objection, although they might think it rather weird. Doing such things to those other sacred texts or to a Koran is reprehensible and antagonistic, but not a crime, therefore not a hate crime. It is Constitutionally protected free speech, just as burning a US flag is protected free speech.

Whatever others might believe, the Koran is a book, an inanimate object, and If I own one, I can dispose of it as I see fit. I did concede that one of the alleged crimes could be called littering, which is illegal but not a crime, as the word is usually understood.

It's not a hate crime, it's just hysterical social justice warriors flexing their situational outrage.

If someone did this to a bible and a church nobody would give a fuck and the same people who just can't believe you don't understand how this is a hate crime would be singing neener neener boo boo at those hateful Nazis who had it coming.





Oh look two social justice warriors who can't explain how this is a hate crime.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/98/ae/89/98ae891254f229842ff6e216eef76428.jpg

Probably the same people that call rioting, vandalism, arson and racially aggravated assault/attempted murder "peaceful protest" as long as it's their team doing it.

If you're so much as rude to the one of their pet demographics though....zomg HATE CRIME!!!!

LMAO

Actually if it was done to a Bible or Torah it would also be a hate crime. It it meant to say "you and your beliefs do not matter, and thus you do not matter." It says "this is what I'd like to do to you and all who believe what you believe."

I know its really hard for the totally self centered to think of how other people are effected by the actions of those with hateful ways, but it does effect them.

Burning someone's book of beliefs is a hate crime. It is a intense form of intimidation and hatred. Wether either of you believe that or not doesn't mean it isn't true.

With that I am done with this thread, because I don't think either of you can or will be convinced, nor any of those that will come to your defense.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

This is a report on two incidents in Sacramento:

http://amp.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article158102329.html

I understand it's an expression of hate or contempt, but why is it a crime, except for littering. I consider it to be legal under the First Amendment.

Sooooo...since you feel so strongly about this, put some dropped balls under your conviction and do the exact same thing, in public, as an example of your conviction. Then when you're pulled up about it, explain your reasoning. Should be a cakewalk for you, because your actions won't be powered by hate or contempt, but by a purely altruistic motive for the purposes of education instead.

You know, teach others how they're wrong about this specifically crafted and fully American First Amendment expression of one's First Amendment passions. Cuz yapping about it here in the snowflake-filled safe space of Lit is weaksauce. And hey, it's not like you're some sorta pussy-ass lefty SJW, after all.

https://media.tenor.com/images/e5ba286d4e4fe460945fc45014d2c0f0/tenor.gif

 

[BotanyBoy]

Actually if it was done to a Bible or Torah it would also be a hate crime.

Can you do something other than make emotional appeals to explain how?

It it meant to say "you and your beliefs do not matter, and thus you do not matter." It says "this is what I'd like to do to you and all who believe what you believe."

SO WHAT?

I know its really hard for the totally self centered to think of how other people are effected by the actions of those with hateful ways, but it does effect them.

Sure it does, but that doesn't make being offensive a hate crime.

Burning someone's book of beliefs is a hate crime.

How? Can you even define "hate crime"??

With that I am done with this thread, because I don't think either of you can or will be convinced, nor any of those that will come to your defense.

You're done because you got called out for saying some stupid SJW snowflake bullshit and despite all this emotional blather you can't come up with any sort of coherent explanation as to how making a rude gesture is a hate crime.


I can be convinced!!

But not by emotional appeals because I'm not retarded ok?

You're going to have to make a big boy or girl argument for why offending the left and being a big meanie head to any of their pet demographics = hate crime.

Can you tell me exactly where does one draw the line with criminalizing offensive speech and expression or is it really as simple as 'whatever is pissing the left off = hate crime. ' ?

 

[Liar]

Hate crime? Eh, sure. Technically. As far as it's being a crime of some sort, and it's being motivated by the same sort of animosity and stupidity.

Serious hate crime? Nah. This is people being dicks, not people being dangerous.

 

[Liar]

That said, don't be a dick.

 

[BotanyBoy]

But there's also the dark side of it, and we don't know the intent of the perpetrator.
We shouldn't forget that in hindsight, many crimes (homicides or the arson of the mosque in Canada) were preceded by such gestures and signs.

If someone left on my front porch a similar thing or a "Go home, immigrant" sign, I would be very scared and would want Police to be aware of that person or to check on me periodically.

It is shitty no doubt.

Be aware sure.

But that's not the same as a classifying and prosecuting it as a hate crime though is my thing.

Now if he damages property or hurts someone THEN you got yourself some crime.

Because they were religion/race/gender x, y or z? NOW it's a hate crime.

Being a miserable asshole? Not a crime, every American's gawd given right.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Hate crime? Eh, sure. Technically. As far as it's being a crime of some sort, .

"Officials said a sheriff’s deputy was waved down by a citizen shortly after 2:30 p.m. and was led to a burned Quran filled with bacon, hanging by a handcuff from a fence."

How? Littering?

OMG FOLKS!!! It's a hate littering!!!

LMAO......Sacramento is as covered with trash, the place is a hole.

 

[hsnh]

It is shitty no doubt.

Be aware sure.

But that's not the same as a classifying and prosecuting it as a hate crime though is my thing.

Now if he damages property or hurts someone THEN you got yourself some crime.

Because they were religion/race/gender x, y or z? NOW it's a hate crime.

Being a miserable asshole? Not a crime, every American's gawd given right.

Exactly.

In saying that, imo they need to be punished.
I would give them community service + fine or in certain cases, a few days in jail.
And in this climate of Islamophobia, Police to be more weary of them (there Is a risk that a % of them might carry it further, these could well be early warning signs).

But they need to choose a different term, because otherwise we end up in an Orwellian system in which people who put bacon on the doorstep of mosques get the same sentencing as rapists.

It already happened. There were two threads about it in the GB.

.

 

[jaF0]

I could do what you describe to a Bible or Torah and nobody would have much objection,

The B book would probably go unnoticed. They burn my fingers and I destroy or discard them when I can. I would have tossed the ones in motel rooms if I didn't think I'd see a charge for them on my CC later, the same as if I took a blanket or pillow case.

The T rags would be a different story. That could get you a hate crime charge just because ... well you know ... that whole 'chosen one' crap.

That said, the 'hate crime' bit has gone overboard. You see it far too often in news stories about normal crimes. There was a kid killed not too long ago that the PoPo say was road rage but the family is pushing for hate crime charges because of how she was dressed. I guess it will depend on the motivation of the suspect.

A US citizen burning a US flag is a political statement. Others burning it could be considered hateful.

Me burning any religious text or other instrument of indoctrination is the same as me burning any other brush or outdoor trash -- just ridding the world of garbage.

These two incidents mentioned might be considered 'hate' since they were intended to intimidate. But they're on par with that idiot Jones guy in Florida.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Exactly.

In saying that, imo they need to be punished.

I would give them community service + fine or in certain cases, a few days in jail.

So end free speech, call it misdemeanor hate speech and use CS, fines and jail to protect the feelings then?

Wow.....maybe you can get special thought police to go around and bust people being offensive to special classes of citizens.

What could possibly go wrong with speech policing?




Not me man, I'm a freedom loving American and think we all have the right to be assholes. I don't even believe in the concept of "hate speech" or crimes, it's made up bullshit anyhow.

 

[hsnh]

So end free speech, call it misdemeanor hate speech and use CS, fines and jail to protect the feelings then?

Wow.....maybe you can get special thought police to go around and bust people being offensive to special classes of citizens.

What could possibly go wrong with speech policing?




Not me man, I'm a freedom loving American and think we all have the right to be assholes. I don't even believe in the concept of "hate speech" or crimes, it's made up bullshit anyhow.

I'm just thinking how it would be if someone did it to me.

I'd certainly want someone who craps intentionally on my doorstep and writes "Go home, you fucking immigrant" to be fined or given a community service.
Not jail, unless they made additional threats,

Freedom of speech does not excuse bullying or harassment.
And to deter similar incidents, or keep them from escalating.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

They are misdemeanors at best and pretty much the same people who are offended as hell over this are the ones who champion the right to burn the flag as an exercise in free speech and don't give a flying fuck about who they offend when they do it, in fact, they INTEND to offend when they do it, but that don't see that as a "HATE" crime.


What a bunch of bullshit.

 

[about_average]

LOL @ the people saying no-one would care if someone did the same to a bible or torah outside a church or synagogue.

There was a kid killed not too long ago that the PoPo say was road rage but the family is pushing for hate crime charges because of how she was dressed. I guess it will depend on the motivation of the suspect.

If you're talking about the girl in Virginia it could very well have started as road rage that turned in to a crime because of her faith.

I've never heard of a road rage incident where a group was attacked, someone assaulted who wasn't even the person causing the problem, then kidnapped and murdered.

That said, I have real issues with the "hate crime" charge. It gets too much in to trying to read a person's mind.
I'd have to hear some very strong arguments for why it should be applied in cases where a previous pattern can't be shown.