Why are healthcare workers lacking basic protective gear?

[sygn]

Frontline healthcare workers working on infectious wards and ICU's are now re-using masks or buying gowns from Bunnings.

And no, it's not just Trump. Democrats didn't prepare for it either.
And it's not just the States. The UK, Australia, NZ and Canada have the same issues, their press are simply less transparent.

And no, it's not just "because China was our main supplier", "because China lied about the severity of the pandemic."
Local manufacturers could have been mobilized much earlier, mayors could have put a stop to wasteful bulk selling of masks at office depos and warehouses much earlier, DHB senior managers could have signaled the risk and asked for money from politicians much earlier.
It's not That hard, these frontline workers make less than 0.01% of the population.

How is it it possible that none of these technocrats had the common sense to foresee and prepare for one of the most vital issue in an outbreak?
It's no longer a matter of how many will catch the virus, it's a matter of how many of them will become incapacitated or even die.

 

[hobbit.]

political lack of will and contempt for the populace.

 

[Jada59]

I only know this. My daughter is in the dental field. Not working now as dentists are considered non-essential. She said at the start of this, they were only allowed to buy 5 boxes of masks per week. Now I didn't ask her how many boxes she normally ordered. I just know it was more than this. They went from being well stocked to barely having enough to last the week because their supplier was rationing. Something doesn't make sense.

I can understand it if the hospitals are using more hazmat type suits than usual. They might not have enough in that case. But scrubs? In many cases they supply their own. That would be their fault if they don't have extra.

Something isn't right. This much I know. We are being shown scenes of hospitals that can't keep up. And yet? I've seen reports that some hospitals are not full. We are not being told the truth.

 

[bunny4med]

Frontline healthcare workers working on infectious wards and ICU's are now re-using masks or buying gowns from Bunnings.

And no, it's not just Trump. Democrats didn't prepare for it either.
And it's not just the States. The UK, Australia, NZ and Canada have the same issues, their press are simply less transparent.

And no, it's not just "because China was our main supplier", "because China lied about the severity of the pandemic."
Local manufacturers could have been mobilized much earlier, mayors could have put a stop to wasteful bulk selling of masks at office depos and warehouses much earlier, DHB senior managers could have signaled the risk and asked for money from politicians much earlier.
It's not That hard, these frontline workers make less than 0.01% of the population.

How is it it possible that none of these technocrats had the common sense to foresee and prepare for one of the most vital issue in an outbreak?
It's no longer a matter of how many will catch the virus, it's a matter of how many of them will become ill and die.

It's because a lot of hospitals work on shoestring budgets and can't stockpile for a possible pandemic. FEMA is supposed to have warehouses of supplies for emergencies, but pandemics aren't what they stockpile for. It's tornados, hurricanes, fires, and floods. You have to remember that we shipped tons of supplies overseas when this thing was "isolated" in Asia. Supplies are arriving here and there, but a better overall logistic system should have been in place at least 30 days ago. We get supplies, but not necessarily what we need. We trade our "surplus" of a particular item amongst other local facilities in the area.

 

[hobbit.]

I only know this. My daughter is in the dental field. Not working now as dentists are considered non-essential. She said at the start of this, they were only allowed to buy 5 boxes of masks per week. Now I didn't ask her how many boxes she normally ordered. I just know it was more than this. They went from being well stocked to barely having enough to last the week because their supplier was rationing. Something doesn't make sense.

I can understand it if the hospitals are using more hazmat type suits than usual. They might not have enough in that case. But scrubs? In many cases they supply their own. That would be their fault if they don't have extra.

Something isn't right. This much I know. We are being shown scenes of hospitals that can't keep up. And yet? I've seen reports that some hospitals are not full. We are not being told the truth.

I was told by the husband of a dentist (so that puts this in the 'someone in the internet said) that his wife, who has a private dental practice was told to stop working. in part to reduce the strain on the equipment supply chain - which if thats true must have been very fragile.
And
Due to dentists having medical skills they were being kept back to staff the emergency pop up hospitals.

many hospital non covid depts are very quiet due to non urgent stuff being cancelled and people not going out. I heard that Leeds hospitals sent staff home last weekend due to lack of patients - i dont know how true that is - but cant see themm being that quiet this weekend.

 

[sygn]

political lack of will and contempt for the populace.

One of my covid go-to's is 60 minutes Australia, and they keep publishing these shocking pieces about urgent care workers who keep contacting them:

7 hours ago: Why are frontline health workers left without protective equipment?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRc1oJACZzo&t=2s

3 days ago: Hospitals left without masks as vital medical supplies shipped to China
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3s6kcXi4pA&t=317s

I haven't started this thread in the sense of "I care, damn it!", I'm just dumbfounded by the lack of logic.
---I can understand why governments aren't able to provide adequate gear to staff working in other medical specialties, there isn't enough equipment.
But to ICU's and infectious wards?? Don't you first supply frontlines in a battle? How much of an idiotic technocrat do you have to be, to not put them as a priority?

 

[SpeareChucker]

Politics and budgets.

It is extraordinarily difficult to convince any group of politicians/citizens
to vote for something which may, or may not, be out on the distant horizon
when each person running for office has the ability to chose an immediate
need/issue that will galvanize potential voters to give them the power of office.

Tyrannies don't give a shit since it cuts into the bottom line
of the elite ruling class, who will always take care of themselves,
and the rest are generally too fucked up to plan past today...

 

[bellisarius]

Supply chain economics.................period.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Frontline healthcare workers working on infectious wards and ICU's are now re-using masks or buying gowns from Bunnings.

And no, it's not just Trump. Democrats didn't prepare for it either.
And it's not just the States. The UK, Australia, NZ and Canada have the same issues, their press are simply less transparent.

I can't speak for any country but Canada, however the Press here is not less transparent.

The shortage has been in the media since late February early March. Was the government here late to order more PPE, yes.

There is no denying the government should have placed the orders in January. However, and again I can only speak to Canada, we did order in February, as the stocks started to get down to a 6-8 week supply.

The largest orders were with 3M an American company that manufactures both in the US and China.

Canada like most other countries does not manufacture masks for example but we do supply 3M with many of the raw materials for those masks. Currently Canada, due to the world wide run on PPE is setting up to manufacture them here.

With the current lag and disruptions in the supply chain there is the potential for shortfalls, which is why social distancing, and limiting local outside movements of the populace are now so important. They are really the only effective tool to slow down the spread, and slowing down the spread will lower the numbers of patients, and lower the need for PPE such as masks.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/4/21208250/coronavirus-trump-canada-germany-spain-brazil

And no, it's not just "because China was our main supplier", "because China lied about the severity of the pandemic."

While China was not honest about the outbreak, let us hypothetically say they had. Would that have offered much more time? We assume the Chinese Government knew of this in virus as being "novel" sometime in December. The rest of the world got that information in early January. A time frame of roughly 3-4 weeks.

It was not just China's lack of transparency, but also of the lateness of other countries to react. Did the WHO have a role in this? Yes they did, by not declaring this a pandemic in early January they too added to the lateness of gearing up for a massive run on PPE.

Local manufacturers could have been mobilized much earlier, mayors could have put a stop to wasteful bulk selling of masks at office depos and warehouses much earlier, DHB senior managers could have signaled the risk and asked for money from politicians much earlier.

I don't know about your country, but in Canada local Mayors cannot order any business to stop selling anything, Canada is a Democracy. That power is a provincial/federal government power not available to local Municipalities.

How is it it possible that none of these technocrats had the common sense to foresee and prepare for one of the most vital issue in an outbreak?
It's no longer a matter of how many will catch the virus, it's a matter of how many of them will become incapacitated or even die.

From my knowledge of this, the local Public Health Units plan for this, but they can only react when directed. As mentioned earlier, if governments are late to react, a pandemic can quickly overwhelm a populace. Look to how Tiawan and South Korea reacted, compared to say the US, UK or Canada.

Why were governments so late to react in these countries, well just look to the way most have tried to protect the economy of those countries. Can you imagine any of the countries such as the US,UK or Canada, siad they were shutting down the country in early January (say the 13th when the first outside case was reported in Bangkok), as they have now? Imagine the public backlash?

I am sure each country will have a study of how they reacted to this once each country has it under control. I know, from the Canadian perspective our government was later to react then they should have ( hindsight is perfect, as well all know). But once they reacted, I feel (as do the vast majority) they have enacted policy, and protocol to the most scientific information available.

To panic, whine or complain about it really adds nothing to the conversation.

Currently we know the best methods to contain this from getting worse is isolation, social distancing, and limited population lock down.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Yeah, except for the thorny problem that is the supply chain
all the people who man it, all the countries we import from
and all the people who have to get out and resupply
because they were not prepper-prepared...

Very few people are truly isolating or social distancing.
The virus is just running it's natural course, but of course,
manis more powerful than nature (unless he is Donald Trump).

 

[Botanical11B]

How is it it possible that none of these technocrats had the common sense to foresee and prepare for one of the most vital issue in an outbreak?

Same reason everyone who's freaking out made fun of and looked down their nose at those 'crazy people' who actually were prepared for this shit for years on end.

Outbreaks aren't usually an issue.

Remember this next time you start trashing "preppers" for having a stockpile of basic supplies.

It's no longer a matter of how many will catch the virus, it's a matter of how many of them will become incapacitated or even die.

The eternal burden of the medical worker.

 

[sygn]

I

While China was not honest about the outbreak, let us hypothetically say they had. Would that have offered much more time? We assume the Chinese Government knew of this in virus as being "novel" sometime in December. The rest of the world got that information in early January. A time frame of roughly 3-4 weeks.

It was not just China's lack of transparency, but also of the lateness of other countries to react. Did the WHO have a role in this? Yes they did, by not declaring this a pandemic in early January they too added to the lateness of gearing up for a massive run on PPE.

I don't know about your country, but in Canada local Mayors cannot order any business to stop selling anything, Canada is a Democracy. That power is a provincial/federal government power not available to local Municipalities.

From my knowledge of this, the local Public Health Units plan for this, but they can only react when directed. As mentioned earlier, if governments are late to react, a pandemic can quickly overwhelm a populace. Look to how Tiawan and South Korea reacted, compared to say the US, UK or Canada.

Why were governments so late to react in these countries, well just look to the way most have tried to protect the economy of those countries.

For me it boils to this:

Shortage of masks for the general popullation and other medical specialties - understandable given all the circumstances.

Shortage of masks for ICU and infectious disease nurses and doctors - inconceivable, inexcusable.

That "just in case" stash should have been built on the moment Intelligence and Taiwan's CDC announced that something smells fishy in China.

 

[SpeareChucker]

The problem is that the greater authority (WHO) decided to believe
Mainland China, one of its puppet-masters, over Taiwan
which is regarded as another US puppet.

It wasn't transmitting person-to-person.
Who stocks up for that?

 

[Botanical11B]

For me it boils to this:

Shortage of masks for the general popullation and other medical specialties - understandable given all the circumstances.

Shortage of masks for ICU and infectious disease nurses and doctors - inconceivable, inexcusable.

That "just in case" stash should have been built on the moment Intelligence and Taiwan's CDC announced that something smells fishy in China.

You mean the same time everyone else in the world realizes there is a problem and they need a bunch of shit?? That was too late.


You have to build up your stockpile beforehand, like a crazy reich winger.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Yeah, except for the thorny problem that is the supply chain
all the people who man it, all the countries we import from
and all the people who have to get out and resupply
because they were not prepper-prepared...

Very few people are truly isolating or social distancing.
The virus is just running it's natural course, but of course,
manis more powerful than nature (unless he is Donald Trump).

Canada is actually doing very well at social distance/self isolation and limited movement.

The curve is flattening here, infection statistics on tracking is about 45% traceable, with 55 % community spread in large urban, and 95% traceable 5% community spread in the rural.

I have read too, that even the US has a higher compliance rate than the models predicted.

While the virus is running it's natural course...remember what that course is.

We are not talking a seasonal outbreak, and while it is not shown to be a deadly as say Smallpox, it still kills and ties up need medical resources.

With the added adventure of it transmitting to animals, does that mean animals can transmit it back? Are our pets now going to be an additional "problem" in the spread of this virus.

For those who think self isolation,social distancing, and stay at home orders are the wrong approach, well please sit back, stay at home, self isolate, limit your outside activities, and feel free to tell the rest of us how wrong we are....

 

[bellisarius]

She seems to want to not understand that those that write the checks didn't place the orders.

Quite frankly the US will end up being in better shape than many of those nations that have nationalized their health care. Why? Because we can make that shit and it isn't going to be exported until we've taken care of ourselves.

 

[Botanical11B]

She seems to want to not understand

This is every sygn post/thread ever.

 

[sygn]

You mean the same time everyone else in the world realizes there is a problem and they need a bunch of shit?? That was too late.

You have to build up your stockpile beforehand, like a crazy reich winger.

Over two months, Australia was depleted of more than 100 tons of medical equipment, secretly shipped to China.

Apparently employees working in half-Chinese-owned offices all over the world were told to do the same (go and buy as many masks/ medical equipment as they can from local pharmacies and warehouses, and ship them to China).
I would have done the same for my people, but have you noticed how many laypeople in China wear n95 masks? While our ICU nurses don't have them.


Coronavirus: 'Vital medical supplies sent to China' as export ban comes 'too late', Aussie hospitals grapple with shortages
https://9now.nine.com.au/60-minutes...hortages/94deca73-5640-4f08-913f-1ca1069b9473

Another glaring example of technocratic incompetence:
That they haven't caught up with That drain in local supplies either.

 

[SpeareChucker]

And yet, the serious charge here in the [dis-] United States
is that our government did not act quickly enough,
was not prepared enough,
was incompetent...,


It's like these people have never met government before!



[Although we know, most of the lamentation is mainly TDS.]

 

[icanhelp1]

I can't speak for any country but Canada, however the Press here is not less transparent.

The shortage has been in the media since late February early March. Was the government here late to order more PPE, yes.

There is no denying the government should have placed the orders in January. However, and again I can only speak to Canada, we did order in February, as the stocks started to get down to a 6-8 week supply.

The largest orders were with 3M an American company that manufactures both in the US and China.

Canada like most other countries does not manufacture masks for example but we do supply 3M with many of the raw materials for those masks. Currently Canada, due to the world wide run on PPE is setting up to manufacture them here.

With the current lag and disruptions in the supply chain there is the potential for shortfalls, which is why social distancing, and limiting local outside movements of the populace are now so important. They are really the only effective tool to slow down the spread, and slowing down the spread will lower the numbers of patients, and lower the need for PPE such as masks.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/4/21208250/coronavirus-trump-canada-germany-spain-brazil



While China was not honest about the outbreak, let us hypothetically say they had. Would that have offered much more time? We assume the Chinese Government knew of this in virus as being "novel" sometime in December. The rest of the world got that information in early January. A time frame of roughly 3-4 weeks.

It was not just China's lack of transparency, but also of the lateness of other countries to react. Did the WHO have a role in this? Yes they did, by not declaring this a pandemic in early January they too added to the lateness of gearing up for a massive run on PPE.



I don't know about your country, but in Canada local Mayors cannot order any business to stop selling anything, Canada is a Democracy. That power is a provincial/federal government power not available to local Municipalities.





From my knowledge of this, the local Public Health Units plan for this, but they can only react when directed. As mentioned earlier, if governments are late to react, a pandemic can quickly overwhelm a populace. Look to how Tiawan and South Korea reacted, compared to say the US, UK or Canada.

Why were governments so late to react in these countries, well just look to the way most have tried to protect the economy of those countries. Can you imagine any of the countries such as the US,UK or Canada, siad they were shutting down the country in early January (say the 13th when the first outside case was reported in Bangkok), as they have now? Imagine the public backlash?

I am sure each country will have a study of how they reacted to this once each country has it under control. I know, from the Canadian perspective our government was later to react then they should have ( hindsight is perfect, as well all know). But once they reacted, I feel (as do the vast majority) they have enacted policy, and protocol to the most scientific information available.

To panic, whine or complain about it really adds nothing to the conversation.

Currently we know the best methods to contain this from getting worse is isolation, social distancing, and limited population lock down.

Well, never thought I'd agree with you but I do. China fucked the world! Not reporting person to person transmission and the rate of transmission in a timely manner set back reaction time and supply chains. W.H.O. is a fraud and has some serious explaining to do. China not imposing a self travel ban was irresponsible, no, more than that, CRIMINAL! Rethinking how to protect national supply chains is going to be top of the list of things to change. AARs will be fast and furious after all this shit is over.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Indeed


Well-said (/ranted).

 

[icanhelp1]

She seems to want to not understand that those that write the checks didn't place the orders.

Quite frankly the US will end up being in better shape than many of those nations that have nationalized their health care. Why? Because we can make that shit and it isn't going to be exported until we've taken care of ourselves.

I agree, for a lot of reasons, especially on the research side of the house as well as the manufacturing end.

 

[Lancecastor19]

There are lots of upsides to "just in time" global supply chains.

Until they are disrupted...then you've got some scrambling to do.

I'm actually impressed with the way Governments are dealing with this threat, overall.

Frontline healthcare workers working on infectious wards and ICU's are now re-using masks or buying gowns from Bunnings.

And no, it's not just Trump. Democrats didn't prepare for it either.
And it's not just the States. The UK, Australia, NZ and Canada have the same issues, their press are simply less transparent.

And no, it's not just "because China was our main supplier", "because China lied about the severity of the pandemic."
Local manufacturers could have been mobilized much earlier, mayors could have put a stop to wasteful bulk selling of masks at office depos and warehouses much earlier, DHB senior managers could have signaled the risk and asked for money from politicians much earlier.
It's not That hard, these frontline workers make less than 0.01% of the population.

How is it it possible that none of these technocrats had the common sense to foresee and prepare for one of the most vital issue in an outbreak?
It's no longer a matter of how many will catch the virus, it's a matter of how many of them will become incapacitated or even die.

 

[bellisarius]

There are lots of upsides to "just in time" global supply chains.

Until they are disrupted...then you've got some scrambling to do.

I'm actually impressed with the way Governments are dealing with this threat, overall.

There's always those unintended consequences.

 

[Ziggins]

Dependence on disposable manufactured items from distant factories is one of the rising costs and basic flaws in healthcare (and most services and industries). Relearning how to make everything from local resources and reusing it is part of the adapt-or-die challenge of this century.