Who really has the power on a relationship?

[callinectes]

Umm, yeah, it should be who has the power IN a relationship..not ON. That's what I get for being in a hurry!

~~~~~
I was at a friend's home earlier today and she nagged her husband to do something. When he walked off to do it she said to me (but loud enough for him to hear) "Sometimes it is like I have three kids, but he is the worst of all of them". Normally I'd let that pass since it really isn't my place to comment on her marriage but today I spoke up. I pointed out to her that her husband is a VERY good man and she is fortunate to have him. I went on to say that maybe she should let him know once in a while that she knows how wonderful he is an how much she appreciates him. Her response? "You know who has all of the power in the relationship right? The one that cares the least". I was truly at a loss for words.

I don't really expect comments on her remark..I just had to unload it. It has been on my mind since she said it.

 

[BiBunny]

Well...I guess, technically, the person who cares the least has the most power in that he or she is less likely to compromise to save the relationship. I don't think it gives that person the right to act like a total ass, though.

 

[subish2009]

Well...I guess, technically, the person who cares the least has the most power in that he or she is less likely to compromise to save the relationship. I don't think it gives that person the right to act like a total ass, though.

Agreed. That's cold. I understand why that was disturbing to hear. And it must have been pretty uncomfortable to have that much dysfunction in your face like that. Normally, I'm very "whatever works for you" and "who am I to judge someone else's marriage?" but that just seems mean.

 

[intothewoods]

I was at a friend's home earlier today and she nagged her husband to do something. When he walked off to do it she said to me (but loud enough for him to hear) "Sometimes it is like I have three kids, but he is the worst of all of them". Normally I'd let that pass since it really isn't my place to comment on her marriage but today I spoke up. I pointed out to her that her husband is a VERY good man and she is fortunate to have him. I went on to say that maybe she should let him know once in a while that she knows how wonderful he is an how much she appreciates him. Her response? "You know who has all of the power in the relationship right? The one that cares the least". I was truly at a loss for words.

I don't really expect comments on her remark..I just had to unload it. It has been on my mind since she said it.

Damn! That is a weird, cold thing to say. I'd be curious if he did something to deserve that venom or if she's really just a crazy bitch.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Its true about the power thing. my husband is slightly more invested in us than i am but i rarely act like a bitch and if i did he wouldn't put up with it. If i get too far out of line in fact i find myself on the owie end of his belt. That said he does not have as much power as he used to. He would put up with more bad "stuff" from me than i would from him but i still compromise A LOT just out of habit. i've been doing it so long i don't know how to stop. i have to be careful though because if i compromise too much or carry too much of the load the resentment starts building like a cancer. i try really hard to be equal which means standing up for myself even if i disagree with him which is actually what he wants. Against my will i think he's actually making me healthier.

i think the legal system favoring mothers for child custody has allowed a lot of women turn into real bitches. i've met a lot of men online who only stick around because they are afraid of losing their kids. That's sad.

 

[ImOnIt]

Some couples fight in front of other people and it gets really nasty and pointed.

Which is a shame, because it is a massive fail at communication. I'd hope its something resolvable... but with the sound of that attitude, at LEAST one of them is being sulky, selfish and destructive.

 

[callinectes]

Damn! That is a weird, cold thing to say. I'd be curious if he did something to deserve that venom or if she's really just a crazy bitch.

All I can say is he has never publicly been anything but very good to her and her children (they are from a previous marriage, go figure). Interestingly, her interactions with her ex-husband are very tense. She has always painted him in a very negative light and since I don't know him I assumed it was mostly true. However, living in a small town with only 2-3 degrees of separation as opposed to 6 has allowed me to hear the other side of the story. Let's just say I was already starting to think she was a little bit of a passive-agressive man-hater but today's episode reinforced that in a big way. Needless to say, my contact with her will be very limited from now on.

My heart hurts for her husband. He is such a decent guy.

 

[ecstaticsub]

All I can say is he has never publicly been anything but very good to her and her children (they are from a previous marriage, go figure). Interestingly, her interactions with her ex-husband are very tense. She has always painted him in a very negative light and since I don't know him I assumed it was mostly true. However, living in a small town with only 2-3 degrees of separation as opposed to 6 has allowed me to hear the other side of the story. Let's just say I was already starting to think she was a little but of a passive-agressive man-hater but today's episode reinforced that in a big way. Needless to say, my contact with her will be very limited from now on.

My heart hurts for her husband. He is such a decent guy.

Just playing Devil's Advocate here...maybe he likes public humiliation? Maybe this type of exchange is normal for them and is something he is comfortable with.

I really try not to pass any judgement on how people handle their own marriages. I agree though if it made you uncomfortable you should distance yourself a bit from them.

 

[yourmissl]

Marriages are very difficult to interpret, and I have found it best to steer clear of judgments... for me, passive-aggressive behavior is so destructive that many times the "good" partner is.... not.

That said, lets remember our manners children, and not expose others to our little problems/games/etc.

 

[callinectes]

Well, there is passing judgement and there is simply steering yourself away from uncomfortable situations. That was most uncomfortable. Besides, her kids were right there. Even if that is their thing, (and I really don't think it is for a variety of reasons) it is not cool to say things like that in front of the children.

 

[intothewoods]

Well, there is passing judgement and there is simply steering yourself away from uncomfortable situations. That was most uncomfortable. Besides, her kids were right there. Even if that is their thing, (and I really don't think it is for a variety of reasons) it is not cool to say things like that in front of the children.

My guess would be it is "their thing," but not a sexual thing. It's just their dynamic. My first thought about these things is always that it takes two to tango. Rarely is it the case that one person is completely to blame. However, that she said something like this in front of her kids without any hesitation would make me uncomfortable as well, and I'd also distance myself.

 

[Netzach]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here...maybe he likes public humiliation? Maybe this type of exchange is normal for them and is something he is comfortable with.

I really try not to pass any judgement on how people handle their own marriages. I agree though if it made you uncomfortable you should distance yourself a bit from them.

I've been around women wiping the asses of men with the "he's a big baby" martyr complex about it all the time. If you don't like it, then stop, is always where I've clocked in. The second thing she said is just one of those ugly truths about the world. She sounds kind of bitter and weird, but no more so than most vanilla women I know. Sounds more like oversharing TMI kind of stuff. The fact that it made you uncomfortable is important enough.

I would also like to point out that the person who seems like the good guy isn't always, also.

 

[intothewoods]

I am constantly struck by how angry a lot of married men and women are. I listened to a sports talk radio show recently and the men were just ripping this one guy's wife apart. Hey, maybe she's terrible, but I was really shocked by the tone. And many women do it too when they get together. It's just amazing to me how many people sign up for and accept these marriages in which they are just miserable.

 

[rida]

I don't like the husband bashing that many women do. And from my experience it is something that I find myself inclined to do when direct communications with Hubby are breaking down.

Talking about what drives me crazy, or action/words that were hurtful while confiding with a friend can be therapeutic and helpful. But indiscriminate put down is often a sign of bigger problem.

The "who really has the power" comment it is all a question of what matters to you. Sure, the least invested party has more "power" as it is going to suffer less if things where to blow up. But personally, I do not call that power.

Most vanilla relationship's look to me like huge power struggles. Whether it is for the ideal 50/50 split or for one side to have his/her way.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I would also like to point out that the person who seems like the good guy isn't always, also.

Yup. i'm constantly being told how saintly my husband is and how lucky i am. It gets really old. Its all about perception though. His job is such that people assume he makes more than i do when its actually the opposite. Because he takes care of HIS OWN children when i go out of town that apparently totally and completely outweighs the fact that i do a much larger share of the cooking, cleaning up, laundry, childcare than he does (he does do all the outside stuff). In comparison to *most* men my husband does do more but guess what... i still do more more. Strangely, since Daddy, i am far less prone to resentment however, even though i now do more at home than before Daddy. Before i used to always be nagging him to get him to help me. Now i just do it and mostly i don't even mind. Its like i've evened the score somehow.

A man who does anything is a saint.

A woman who doesn't do everything with a smile is either a bitch or a martyr.

That's just reality.

 

[BiBunny]

Society expects more of women. I'm not sure why, but it does.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I am constantly struck by how angry a lot of married men and women are. I listened to a sports talk radio show recently and the men were just ripping this one guy's wife apart. Hey, maybe she's terrible, but I was really shocked by the tone. And many women do it too when they get together. It's just amazing to me how many people sign up for and accept these marriages in which they are just miserable.

Well its often about the kids. i think we are in the midst of a huge social revolution. People are leaving religion in droves. i am not alone in getting married living in a completely different paradigm only to leave it and enter the "real world" and feel a bit resentful the children, hubby and minivan are still firmly anchoring me to a life i did not know i didn't have to live when i "chose" it but now that i know i cannot un-choose it without hurting a lot of people. There are no easy solutions.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Society expects more of women. I'm not sure why, but it does.

What's interesting about our relationship is my husband has realized this. He's just figured it out by observing and listening to me but he also knows that in our relationship he cannot change it. i'm better at paying the bills. i'm better at organizing things, cleaning, cooking, getting the kids to bed. i can do almost any domestic duty he can do faster and with less effort. Watching him do some of this stuff drives me bonkers on occasion (except for putting the kids to bed... omg... please save me).

i was feeling bad a few weeks ago because my once a month trip was landing such that i was only going to be home two weeks between trips. i was kinda groveling i think when i asked him via chat if such and such dates would be okay. He's was just like... well sounds like your normal deal to me. i pointed out it would mean two trips close together. He said, "yeah, but you need to have a life too." That one sentence meant so much because it means he finally sees that all the wonderfulness that we have... i don't necessarily want. Its a shame but i don't. Four kids is really too much for me to realistically handle. my job is realistically too much for me to handle but we need the money to send the kids to private\hippy\yuppy school.

Its difficult. He's my best friend in the world but if i had it to do all over again i wouldn't marry him (i likely would not marry at all). He's the only person i want to raise my kids with but if i had it to do all over again.... yeah. i don't like to think about that part because i don't like to imagine a world without them in it.

A lot of modern women are setting their own terms at the outset and they are happier for it i think. i don't have that luxury but i'm glad my daughters will.

 

[ataxia.girl]

i think modern Men are struggling to figure out where they are still essential. In a world where a woman can do almost any job as well where are men essential? There are many lower level data entry\multi-tasking jobs women simply do better. i cannot tell you how much of my day is spent babysitting, i mean project managing, men because without me scheduling calls and keeping track of who is doing what they are paralyzed to get anything done. Its like they don't know how to reach out to each other and just get shit done because god forbid someone think they do not know exactly what they are doing. i'm just a girl so i'm used to people thinking i don't know what i'm doing so no big deal for me to schedule a call with a bunch of people and look like an idiot for a half hour while i fumble my way through putting together a list of action items but guess what? That call and my list get shit done because i'm not afraid to look stupid.

More is expected of women but its not going to last. We are right on the cusp of a very major shift i believe. my company is large and dominated by women at the bottom and mid-levels. The glass ceiling won't hold for long as long as there are women choosing not to have children and focusing on their careers instead.

my Daddy thinks men are lost right now. They are trying to figure out where they fit in a future where women truly are equals. When we are truly equal for a time our willingness to work harder than our male counterparts will give women an edge along with some of the now lopsided social programs which still favor women, like education for one.

Anyway... i'm rambling now and possibly looking stupid. Luckily i'm used to it

 

[PertPerth]

i think modern Men are struggling to figure out where they are still essential.

Something like that - but women are struggling too.
I think the original post is an example of a woman over compensating to be assertive against the "stronger sex". Unfortunately it's potentially detrimental to her relationship with her husband and others around her.
As a child in the 80's, I could never understand shoulder-pads. Why on earth would women want broader shoulders? Now I look back and thank god that we don't over compenstate in our dressing style anymore!

 

[ImOnIt]

Here comes the derail.

"men are x" is based only on what you have seen.

i think modern Men are struggling to figure out where they are still essential.

Oh fuck, where to start with this. I think wisdom is about identifying contradictory beliefs and choosing a value position. How hard is it to speak your position when confronted with a hard situation? Or holding that position in the face of disapproval, or hostility?

I hate the word 'modern' based on the selfishness that I so often see attached to it. 'Now, more than ever, in our new and ever changing world, we experience a problem that totally did not exist for our parents, or three generations ago, or EVER'.

That implies that it is a new problem, which has never been encountered. We are not the first to live. I am not the first. People came before me. There was never a "golden age", my struggles are not unique. People older than me are not much different to people younger than me. I am no different (in terms of mental potential) than your average person 500, 1000, 4,000 years ago.

I am empowered. Also very close to powerless. Things are very confusing. We do not live like a tribe. Positional power (like your manager if he is clueless) would not have been a leader in a hunting party. People behave strange in big groups, like cities. People behave strange (but differently), in small communities. People are absolutely fucking strange, because the people who came before them didnt have an idea either.

I dont think logic is the end of anything. I hate moral models. I especially hate the ones which require X and don't practise. Living is an expression of virtue, and just because someone thought of a system doesnt mean they lived it.

In a business ethics lecture someone said 'Well, people are greedy, arent they? So its a waste to do anything... so why bother thinking about doing anything?', and she smiled a shit eating grin, turned around to sit at a table of equally stupid friends and the whole class was silent a few seconds, then turned to awkward.

Well tell you what, fuck your awkward, fuck whatever the shit is holding you back... you are failing to think, which is inexcusable.

On the bus home from town, a woman got on without money. A gentleman got up to pay for her, and she turned on the AWKWARD taps and refused x a million, jumped off the bus while declaring she would get cash out and get the next line in half an hour.

I thought someone needed to stand up, tell her to take the fucking money, thank the man, and be on your way. You have a PRIZE opportunity to make his day, but due to your insecurity you are going to blow him off, make him look like a fool, and he wont fucking offer next time.

THAT, that right there is so magnificently fucking stupid that it makes me boil.

Trapped by inaction. The fear of DOING anything, of responsibility is fucking crippling. Fear of looking like a fool, of not being accepted.

The power in ANY relationship is based on actually doing things, which can be very fucking difficult, and so is talking about it.

Derail times a billion.

Most of my reply isdirected at this, from ataxia. I think that everyone is 'lost', as i understand her use of the word. I don't have knowledge of organisational culture, or gender issues in your country.

my Daddy thinks men are lost right now. They are trying to figure out where they fit in a future where women truly are equals. When we are truly equal for a time our willingness to work harder than our male counterparts will give women an edge along with some of the now lopsided social programs which still favor women, like education for one.

 

[YourCaptor]

Ha, that’s rich.

Unfortunately she forgets that you play your own game too. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Hope she enjoys her “power”, leaching off a man she doesn’t like. Must be a wonderful life.

 

[MisterSir]

This thread riles me in so many different ways it's untrue, so I will only say that the rhetoric about men being lost applies to the older generations, who were brought up in an environment when men were seen as superior. Newer generations, myself included, have been raised differently. That's a distinction that isn't being made.

 

[Bandit58]

Well its often about the kids. i think we are in the midst of a huge social revolution. People are leaving religion in droves. i am not alone in getting married living in a completely different paradigm only to leave it and enter the "real world" and feel a bit resentful the children, hubby and minivan are still firmly anchoring me to a life i did not know i didn't have to live when i "chose" it but now that i know i cannot un-choose it without hurting a lot of people. There are no easy solutions.

I had to leave my first husband for the sake of my physical and mental health. I'd already suffered depression and a stomach ulcer. Despite yes, hurting a lot of people including my children (teenagers at the time) and my parents, I decided that I needed to take care of ME for a change.

My ex was emotionally abusive. I did not realise how much it was affecting me until I started talking to a female friend and also a couple of friends online. It took one of those people to say to me "He shouldn't be treating you like that" for the light bulb to come on. A year later, I was gone. And the weight coming off my shoulders was a huge relief.

My ex had all the power. And he was domineering with it. When I told my son (18 at the time) that I was leaving his father, he said, and these are his exact words, "What took you so long?" I was married to that man for 23 years. I was too emotionally beaten down to get up the courage to leave before then. I even hoped he'd be killed in an accident, so then I wouldn't have to do anything. Sad and sick isn't it.

So I decided to un-choose my previous life. And I am much happier for it.

 

[Aquila1]

Well...I guess, technically, the person who cares the least has the most power in that he or she is less likely to compromise to save the relationship. I don't think it gives that person the right to act like a total ass, though.

Brutal. But truthful. I like it