where did you first hear the terms for BDSM?

[Stella_Omega]

It seems to me that most hetero newbies who show up here talks about doms and subs, and not tops and bottoms-- as I do, because I come from a different tradition.

Furthermore, they "know" that these are innate qualities, that last a lifetime...

Where does this come from? Where do you guys get your information from, when you first start looking? What are you reading, who talks to you? Did you ever hear the terms top and bottom?

What differences do you think exist between a top and a dom, a bottom and a sub?

 

[justnoldfriend]

Where did you first hear the terms for BDSM?

Here on Lit.

5 or 6 years ago or so.

 

[KoPilot]

I knew that I was into being on the receiving end of forceful interaction for many, many years. Didn't really know that it had a name beyond having a vague sense of culture that I got just from being exposed to media over time. It wasn't until about... 4 years ago? when my kooky friend came out to everyone and started logging onto collarme on all of her friends computers, forcing us to look at profiles with her, did I see that it was as... organized as it was. Even then I didn't identify with anything she was on about, so I laughed and forgot about it more or less when she moved across the country. And then I guess something switched on about a year ago, and I was able to say to myself "I think I have a lot in common with these people." Read shit, and found my way here.

 

[SimonBrooke]

It seems to me that most hetero newbies who show up here talks about doms and subs, and not tops and bottoms-- as I do, because I come from a different tradition.

Furthermore, they "know" that these are innate qualities, that last a lifetime...

Where does this come from? Where do you guys get your information from, when you first start looking? What are you reading, who talks to you? Did you ever hear the terms top and bottom?

What differences do you think exist between a top and a dom, a bottom and a sub?

I didn't 'know' the words, but I knew what I wanted age eight or ten, so forty-five years ago. By age eighteen when I was doing it I certainly knew the word 'bondage' (and used it); I certainly also knew the word 'sadist' but didn't apply it to myself at the time, because apart from spanking I wasn't actually acting out any sadistic fantasies at that age. 'Dominant' and 'submissive'? I don't know, probably not before I started writing for Literotica, so five years ago.

'Dominant' is kind of a curious label to apply to myself, because in many ways I'm so not. But it's more meaningful to me than 'top' (which I really don't apply to myself at all); and despite being curious it does sort of fit. But ultimately I think if you want a label for me 'sadist' is probably more correct than 'dominant'. Whatever I am, it is, if not innate, then forged in the hell of my childhood, and I would not take at all kindly to someone offering to 'cure' me of it. Difficult though it is at times it is part of my identity, and I don't want it changed.

However, all labels are shorthand, ultimately; and each of us adopts a slightly different role in each of the relationships we engage in. I'm me. Find me as you find me.

 

[Stella_Omega]

What I am interested in is the prevalence of "Dom/ sub" when people talk about BDSM, and what people think those terms mean-- and how the terms color their expectations of the lifestyle.

Why doesn't "top" apply to you, Simon? To me, it's a perfect fit.

 

[rosco rathbone]

It seems to me that most hetero newbies who show up here talks about doms and subs, and not tops and bottoms-- as I do, because I come from a different tradition.

Furthermore, they "know" that these are innate qualities, that last a lifetime...

Where does this come from? Where do you guys get your information from, when you first start looking? What are you reading, who talks to you? Did you ever hear the terms top and bottom?

What differences do you think exist between a top and a dom, a bottom and a sub?

This would be an excellent dissertation in inet sociology/anthro/ethno.

My guess is that the whole thing grew out of Usenet culture in the 90s, but I'd like to know where that culture in turn came from.

 

[00Syd]

I first encountered the BDSM acronym on Second Life, and I explored it there for a while. A SL friend of mine pointed me in the direction of a BDSM Forum "island" there, where people gathered to talk about different topics and issues, just like here. That's where I first learned about the different terms and definitions and what have you.

After a while, someone clued me in to the BDSM forum on Literotica, and I made my way here. This is where I first learned about the more specific terms like top and bottom and switch, and where I first learned that not everyone was either a dom or a sub, and that there were plenty of people who fell somewhere in the middle.

Then I found fetlife, which helped me find the local scene, and then I started going out and meeting people in person. This was the greatest help. Getting involved in the scene and meeting people and making friends is what helped me realize that not only do some people fall somewhere in the middle, but some fall on a different spectrum altogether, or multiple spectrum's. It's where I figured out that not everyone was somewhere from Dom to sub, but some people are somewhere from top or bottom, or sadist to masochist, or pet to person, or... anything. And that it can be fluid.

So hmmm... yeah. So now I've been involved in the scene for a good little bit. About two and a half years? Three years? Best thing that I could have ever done.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I first encountered the BDSM acronym on Second Life, and I explored it there for a while. A SL friend of mine pointed me in the direction of a BDSM Forum "island" there, where people gathered to talk about different topics and issues, just like here. That's where I first learned about the different terms and definitions and what have you.
After a while, someone clued me in to the BDSM forum on Literotica, and I made my way here. This is where I first learned about the more specific terms like top and bottom and switch, and where I first leared that not everyone was either a dom or a sub, and that there were plenty of people who fell somewhere in the middle. After

So, at SL, people mostly consider "dom/ sub" the basic, non-specific terms?

 

[00Syd]

So, at SL, people mostly consider "dom/ sub" the basic, non-specific terms?

Hmm.. yeah, I think so. At least when I was there in '07. But also keep in mind that SL is mostly a place for fantasy, and has very little to do with "real life."

 

[MatthewJudeBrown]

I'd also say that "dominant" and "submissive" are terms that have at least some currency in the wider culture -- while I don't find "top" and "bottom" to escape very far from particular orientation subcultures (whether gay, or kink, or whatever).

90s Usenet culture wasn't it -- because I learned all those terms and more besides there. Sometimes it was an intelligent place.

 

[BiBunny]

The first time I heard BDSM terms was on Lit. I was looking for sex stories, and I found the story side. I had no idea what BDSM meant, but I clicked on one of the stories in the BDSM section, and, suddenly, all this weird shit that was in my mind all made sense. I found the forum shortly thereafter and lurked for, like, 3 years before I ever posted.

I think I heard top and bottom about the same time I heard dom and sub. They've always meant different things in my mind.

Another thing that probably confuses the issue is that at places like CollarMe, the only orientation options are dom, sub, switch, and slave. So I put myself as a switch there, even though I'm not 100% sure that's how I would describe myself. On FetLife, I'm listed as a sadomasochist, which is more comfortable as a description for me right now.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Hmm.. yeah, I think so. At least when I was there in '07. But also keep in mind that SL is mostly a place for fantasy, and has very little to do with "real life."

I just want to know why people use "sub" where I would use "bottom," and "dom" where I would say "top." It doesn't matter if it's fantasy, it's the usage that I wonder about.

I ask because there are assumptions that go along with those words that worry me quite a bit, as I'm sure you know.

Top and bottom speak to a set of overall tendencies which may include some but not necessarily all power exchange practices. Dominant and submissive sound like writ-in-stone personality traits, and most people assume that's what those words mean.

Sure, some bottom-type folk learn that they are not actually submissive after a while, but to begin with that and have to overcome the first impression just adds one more hurdle to the burden of self discovery.

 

[seela]

For me the semantics are probably a bit different ballgame, because my first language is not English. For me dom and sub are simply abbreviations for dominant and submissive, which I find to be very neutral adjectives and don't carry any special connotations. There are dominant people and submissive people and that's that.

I identify as submissive and don't really fuss about the labels at all.

I learned the words top and bottom when I started lurking on Lit. Until then I had only heard them being used in relation to gays. I first heard the acronym BDSM and what it means in a measly chat room when I was pretty young, but the terms used were mostly in my native language. So it turns out I have no input in this thread really, because I function in a non-english environment.

 

[00Syd]

I just want to know why people use "sub" where I would use "bottom," and "dom" where I would say "top." It doesn't matter if it's fantasy, it's the usage that I wonder about.

I ask because there are assumptions that go along with those words that worry me quite a bit, as I'm sure you know.

Top and bottom speak to a set of overall tendencies which may include some but not necessarily all power exchange practices. Dominant and submissive sound like writ-in-stone personality traits, and most people assume that's what those words mean.

Sure, some bottom-type folk learn that they are not actually submissive after a while, but to begin with that and have to overcome the first impression just adds one more hurdle to the burden of self discovery.

Honestly, I think it's because Dominant and submissive sound more romantic than top and bottom, you know, in an "O" sort of way. And yeah, I'm with you. There are a lot of really problematic assumptions attached to the D/s labels. And yeah, there are assumptions about Top and bottom, too, but I think that they're less entrenched, and less harmful.

Personally, whenever I meet someone in person and they ask me about my orientation, I usually say that I fall "on the bottom-y side of things," and then let them think what they will from that.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I like the idea of you falling on the bottom-y side.

What are the assumptions about Top/bottom? if they are "less harmful," does that mean there are harmful assumptions?

 

[00Syd]

I like the idea of you falling on the bottom-y side.

What are the assumptions about Top/bottom? if they are "less harmful," does that mean there are harmful assumptions?

I think that most of the assumptions about top and bottom are that they have nothing to do with power exchange, and are therefore less 'serious' than people who ID as D or s because they more explicitly play with the "heavy" power stuff. But I think that those sorts of assumptions are easier to dismiss than the ones attached to D/s roles. But then again, I could just think that because I've personally had a lot of issues with the ideas and assumptions attached to D/s roles, and less experiences with the Top/bottom part of it.

And yeah, I think that assumptions can be extremely harmful, especially when they are so, so entrenched, and they are the first things that most people encounter. When people are new, the last thing they need is to be told that all of these different, and often arbitrary things must apply to them if they have an interest in a particular role, or sexuality.

Also, many assumptions are at the root of so much mistreatment and bad behavior in the scene. From ignoring someone because they are wearing a collar, to spanking someone without asking, or worse.

 

[KoPilot]

You know, now that I think about it, I first became somewhat introduced to the terminology after looking at the list of tags on adultfanfiction.net, trying to find more stories that were up my alley, but not knowing what to search for.

"maledom" was my first glimpse into the world of BDSM.

To me, "dominant" was an umbrella term used to describe anyone who took charge in any sort of way. And... duh, I guess that would be similar to the dictionary definition too, now that I think about it. I didn't actually get exposed to the particulars and whys and wherefores and the hair-splitting until I ventured into the online BDSM communities.

 

[Commedia]

I honestly don't remember where I first heard any of the terms. I was always very curious (about everything, really) and so I exposed myself to these kinds of things pretty early on.

As for the differences in the meanings? I don't really care, and it doesn't really bother me when people don't know all the little differences in definitions. To me, they're just labels and aren't very important, so I usually use what I find to be the most generic terms; Dom and sub.

 

[Stella_Omega]

When and how did dom and sub become the generic terms?

 

[00Syd]

When and how did dom and sub become the generic terms?

No clue. I have a feeling that that particular hot mess came about loooooooong before my time. So, I'd be curious to learn the answer to this as well.

 

[ownedsubgal]

It seems to me that most hetero newbies who show up here talks about doms and subs, and not tops and bottoms-- as I do, because I come from a different tradition.

Furthermore, they "know" that these are innate qualities, that last a lifetime...

Where does this come from? Where do you guys get your information from, when you first start looking? What are you reading, who talks to you? Did you ever hear the terms top and bottom?

What differences do you think exist between a top and a dom, a bottom and a sub?

i didn't really hear the term BDSM until after i had already been a slave for nearly a year. it was a forum online, similar to this one. i didn't feel any connection to the label then, and i don't feel any connection to it now. like you Stella i'm confused as to where or when people started defining the DS in BDSM as Dominant/submissive. BDSM stands for bondage/discipline/sadism/masochism, and i take it to refer to people who have those interests or inclincations erotically. they are aroused by bondage, or aroused by "discipline," or aroused by causing or receiving pain. all well and good, but nothing in that has anything to do with who i am the lifestyle i live.

when i think of a Dominant person or a submissive person, i don't think of kinks or fetishes, i just think of people with those personality traits. D/s to me is just a fancy label for a relationship dynamic which has come naturally to many folks since the dawn of humanity.

 

[Netzach]

In the village voice personals ads in newsprint. I used to read them obsessively and try to decode them, I had a fixation with the taboo and the eccentric in a way.

The first time I thought they might apply to me, in a film class.

 

[Netzach]

When and how did dom and sub become the generic terms?

I'm voting when the heterosexual scene started to notice one another enough to become its own scene. I think there was a lot of wheel reinvention and still is between queer leather and pansexual primarily hetero leather.

In my experiences in gay but mixed gender leather you'd find people just being D or s and not identifying endlessly. Occasionally.

 

[Commedia]

When and how did dom and sub become the generic terms?

I don't really know, either. But they seem to be the terms most widely recognized from what I've seen and where I've been, anyway.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm voting when the heterosexual scene started to notice one another enough to become its own scene. I think there was a lot of wheel reinvention and still is between queer leather and pansexual primarily hetero leather.

In my experiences in gay but mixed gender leather you'd find people just being D or s and not identifying endlessly. Occasionally.

yeah, I come from the gay leather scene, so.

In my parlance, the generic is top/bottom. From there you might define what kind of topping and bottoming, which might include dominant/submissive, or master/slave, or sadist/masochist or whatever it is.

I don't really know, either. But they seem to be the terms most widely recognized from what I've seen and where I've been, anyway.

It startles me every time, as you may have noticed!