Where are Arab peace marchers?

[Cheyenne]

This article made me think of p_p_man and Sinthysist, for some reason.


Joseph Farah
Posted: April 25, 2002
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27382

For those who truly believe there is moral equivalence between the Arabs and Israelis, consider the following question: When was the last time you heard about an Arab peace march?

I've been observing the Middle East closely and professionally for 25 years. I can tell you I have never seen one. Nor do I expect to see one any time soon.

Why is this important? What's the relevance?

Until the most recent outbreak of Arab violence and terrorism in Israel some 18 months ago, the Israeli public was divided fairly evenly between those who believed peace with the Arab world could be achieved through appeasement and those who believed it could be achieved only through strength. Regularly, Israelis would turn out by the hundreds of thousands urging more concessions to the Arabs, more talks with Yasser Arafat, Jewish retreat from predominantly Arab territories.

The fact that there is no equivalent peace movement in the entire Arab world should provide further evidence of two things:

There is no freedom of speech nor freedom of assembly in the Arab world and no tolerance for any form of dissent from government policy.

There is no desire in the Arab world for living in peace and harmony with the Jewish state.

Many in the West continue to portray Israel as some sort of aggressor in the Middle East. Nothing could be further from the truth. Israel has been a model of restraint in the face of unspeakable provocation and violence precisely because of internal checks and balances within its free society.

Because there are people like Shimon Peres and Ehud Barak, who seemingly never tire of appeasing terrorists like Arafat, those who would take stronger military actions must think twice. There are political considerations to make. They cannot afford to alienate politicians who help form their coalition governments. They cannot write off huge sectors of the public no matter how misguided and naive they may be.

There is no such public accountability anywhere in the Arab world. The entire Arab world is structured from the top down. There are rulers and there are servants. The people are told what the rulers want them to know and they do what they are told.

There is no moral equivalency between these two ways of life any more than there is between the United States and, say, Afghanistan under the Taliban.

Why can't there be negotiated peace between these two sides? Because they live in completely different worlds, they speak entirely different languages, they operate in different dimensions of reality.

Israelis can see both sides of the issue. The Arabs cannot. Israelis see shades of gray. The Arabs see only black and white. Israelis live in a free society. The Arabs live in the most closed societies on earth. Israelis are free-thinking people with access
to all kinds of information from many points of view. The Arabs aare like programmed automatons, hearing and seeing only what their governments want them to see and hear.

An Arab peace movement? It's almost incomprehensible to consider, isn't it?

But you will also see things in the Arab world you won't see in Israel.

For instance, when was the last time you saw a Jewish child turned out by his or her parents to fight on the frontlines against the Arabs?

You have never seen it. Nor will you ever see it.

Why do the Arabs send children to die as suicide bombers? Why do they send children to throw stones at Israeli police? Why do they encourage the youngest and most innocent to fight their unholy wars?

It certainly isn't because they are outnumbered. In fact, the Arabs
outnumber the Jews in the Middle East by a factor of about 10 to 1. That doesn't even include many of Israel's non-Arab enemies in the region. Yet, the Arabs can't seem to find enough adults to fight this vastly outnumbered foe. Strange.

Yet, despite these considerations, despite the fact that Israel is a civilized nation defending itself in civilized ways against barbaric attacks by people who have no respect even for the lives of their own children, there are still those in the West who see no difference between the two sides.

I have a name for such people: They are moral relativists. They cannot distinguish between wrong and right, or between good and evil.

Unfortunately, such people fill the offices of the U.S. State Department, the newsrooms of the Western world and the halls of the United Nations.

 

[bluespoke]

Why have peace marchers when you don't want peace?

 

[Samuari]

Actually, I believe that there have been peace rallies in Egypt under Sadat, and in Lebonan before 1970. In fact Lebonan was the only Arab nation that was ever even remotely Democratic, and the millitents could not allow it to survive.

Basicly, the article is corect for the last thirty years or so. What it fails to take in consideration is that Jewish children were used by the Jewish terriosts that founded the state of Isreal. Underground fighters have always used kids, from the American Revolution, to the French in WWII, to the Viet Cong.

The biggest problem that we have in the information age is failing to consider current events in their historical perspective

 

[bluespoke]

Actually, I believe that there have been peace rallies in Egypt under Sadat, and in Lebonan before 1970. In fact Lebonan was the only Arab nation that was ever even remotely Democratic, and the millitents could not allow it to survive.

Basicly, the article is corect for the last thirty years or so. What it fails to take in consideration is that Jewish children were used by the Jewish terriosts that founded the state of Isreal. Underground fighters have always used kids, from the American Revolution, to the French in WWII, and the Viet Cong.

The biggest problem that we have in the information age is failing to consider current events in their historical perspective

Whilst I would accept everythin you say as fact, the fact remains there have been no peace marches in the Arab states in the last thirty years. That, in itself, tells us something.

 

[p_p_man]

Although there isn't an Arab Peace Movement...

there are plenty of joint Arab-Israeli, Palestine-Israeli groups who are working for peace. Their voices go largely unheard unless you actively look for them because the Israeli command of Cyber space is so much more in evidence...

If the Western Nations took as much time publicising the views and aims of these groups as they do Israeli spin, then a peace movement could possibly get off the ground.

Like ordinary folk everywhere the man in the street in the Middle East needs leadership to follow. He's not going to stand up alone and start a movement on his own. He, like other people elsewhere, has different priorities. Like raising a family, earning a living and just getting on with his life.

Many Arab intellectuals are calling for peace and maybe someday, their cries will be heard by others, and they can all join in as one movement. Although a peace movement doesn't necessarily mean peace.

However here's one quote that may interest you. The writer agrees that there should be an Arab peace movement now:

"Arab Peace Now!
Vol 4: #4 : March 30, 2002

Mohamed Mosaad
An Egyptian Intellectual

The violence in Israel and Palestine has reached an unprecedented high level. This is the everyday morning news! The vicious circle of violence has, as everyone knows, no end. The question is, what or whom are we waiting for? Are we waiting for the politically stupid Israeli Government, the strategically blind Palestinian Authority, the very indifferent United States, the perpetually begging/condemning Europe, the yawning Arab countries, or what? For one and a half years all of these parties have been proving, in every way, how helpless they are.

In fact, through all this year and a half the winds of hope have come only from the Israeli peace movements. Not only the recently awakened Peace Now, but also many Israeli peace organizations and many peace activists have been demonstrating, campaigning and struggling for a better future. A lazy Arab, stretching his or her legs, would say, "So what… peace did not come! Have not you watched the TV today?"

That leg-stretching Arab is, indeed, the very reason why peace became so difficult to achieve. Waiting for Israeli peace movements is certainly not enough; a single hand does not clap as the Egyptian idiom goes! What makes those movements impotent, is that exactly while Peace Now activists were making a long line to donate blood in Al Maqased Hospital for the Palestinian victims of refugee camps, the smoke of a bomb, exploded by a suicide bomber terrorist, was rising all around! Until the Arab response to such terrorism is another long queue donating blood for Israeli civilian victims, those movements, unfortunately, will be insignificant.

For a quarter of a century Egypt is maintaining peace with Israel. Except for the bizarre plan of hitting Aswan Dam rambled by Israeli minister Avigdor Lieberman, no one on either side speaks of war. Egypt regained every millimeter of her land and her borders with Israel are very quiet indeed. Nonetheless, it is not uncommon to hear writers, intellectuals and academic researchers on TV emphasizing that a one-day-old Israeli baby is a Zionist, who could/should be killed. What message are those stupid intellectuals sending, and what promise can Peace Now therefore carry to the Israeli society?

What is missing, certainly, is an Arab peace movement that should come into being, right here and right now. It is the only way to reach peace and guarantee it, in the present as well as in the future. A coalition of Israeli and Arab peace movements is needed to assure Arab and Israeli masses that peace is possible and fruitful. An Arab-Israeli peace coalition is needed to pressure both the negotiating politicians, and the lurking Israeli settlers and Palestinian militias, and it is essential to back an upcoming peace agreement. Moreover, this coalition, and only they, could move the peace process from the political, security and economic spheres, dominated by politicians, militaries and businessmen, to the social and cultural spheres, created by activists, intellectuals, writers and the like. In short they would drive the peace process out from the official narrow corner of “Normalization” to the vast social landscape of “Integration”!

This must be the mission of conscientious Arabs, especially in Egypt and Jordan, to start healing the wounds on both sides. This is their moment to cross over physical and mental borders, joining up with Israeli peace activists and marching toward a better future for everyone. There will be no peace without this essential and urgent step!

Dr. Mohamed Mosaad

Cairo, Egypt."

Source: http://www.ariga.com/peacewatch/

Although I don't agree with everything he says there's plenty there which gives food for thought...

ppman

 

[Rex1960]

well...

hey wait a minute...

i don't think throwing all isralis in one pot is ok
i don't think throwing all arabs in another but also one pot is ok

as far as i know most countries in that area are far away what we call democracy - human rights like free speech and free assembling kicked by the rulers we supported with money and arms

are we in the position to judge fairly ?? just a question.

when did it all start ? more than 2000 years ago ? 1948 ? 1967 ?
who started ? what was first ?
the hen or the egg ? just a question.

What about those jewish seddlers occupying land that's not their own ? What about former Prime Ministers who attacked british soldiers and official buildings before 1948 ?
What about those fanatic muslims telling their folks Allah or Muhammed promised the paradise for those who die as terrorists.

The role of the palestinians especially of Arafat is a different story.
How the palestinians are treated by the arab world is another different story.
The war between sunni and shi'a muslims is another different story.

I don't think that cheyenne's 25 ys of professional and close observation tells us the entire story, the entire background.

I guess it's too complicated and shouldn't be simplified like "no peace march - no desire for peace". It is not that easy.

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: well...

I don't think that cheyenne's 25 ys of professional and close observation tells us the entire story, the entire background.

Fool. Read it again. You obviously didn't pay much attention the first time.

 

[bored1]

I will make a blanket statement. The Arab/Muslim masses do not want peace period. There may be a few, but the majority do not. Im tired of watching these apologists for Islam on the alphabet networks refusing to condemn homicide bombers or condemn the Saudi telethons that raise money for these people. There are generations in the middle east who have been raised on hate, the worst is yet to come. Deal with it now or deal with it later. Odd how many Europeans countries are beginning to examine/change their immigration policies. If you want peace you must defeat your enemy.

 

[ag2507]

I don't think either side exactly covers themselves in glory. The record of the Israeli government over the last 20 years is pretty poor. The Palestinians have a pretty oood beef about their treatment.

However

Don't confuse the Palestinian position with the Arab position in general. Judaeism is a much older tradition than Islam and is to some extent incorporated into it - as such it is considered a threat, much as historically, Christians have seen the continued existance of Jewry as a threat. All three groups find it hard to understand how God can make the same Promises to all three groups and keep them so they believe God' will find it easier to keep His word if they eliminate the other two.

I know that's rather simplistic but it encapsulates the main issues.

Interestingly

There are a large number of Jews who believe that the current State of Israel is a Heresy as the reestablishment of the Kingdom of Judea is not supposed to occur until AFTER the coming of the Messiah.

A

 

[clit_licker30]

There are no Arab peace marchers.

 

[Rex1960]

Re: Re: well...

Fool. Read it again. You obviously didn't pay much attention the first time.

Easy there Cheyenne. No need to call me fool anyway.
What you count obvious is obviously not obvious.
Your statement is your pov nothing else.
We can discuss it point by point, but no need to call anyone names.

Are you just disclaiming free speech if your own opinion is concerned ? Just wondering. Or do you own the one and only truth ? If so you are nothing better than any arabian or israli.

So please come back to the points.

Stop terrorism ? Ok !
Stop killing of civilians ? Ok !
More democracy into that region ? Ok !

Just one side to blame ? No

Rex

 

[bluespoke]

Re: Re: Re: well...

Easy there Cheyenne. No need to call me fool anyway.
What you count obvious is obviously not obvious.
Your statement is your pov nothing else.
We can discuss it point by point, but no need to call anyone names.

Are you just disclaiming free speech if your own opinion is concerned ? Just wondering. Or do you own the one and only truth ? If so you are nothing better than any arabian or israli.

So please come back to the points.

Stop terrorism ? Ok !
Stop killing of civilians ? Ok !
More democracy into that region ? Ok !

Just one side to blame ? No

Rex

You didn't get it then and you don't get it now.

It's not Cheyenne's words it's a cut and paste. Not her views merely a document for discussion.

 

[gridiron]

Hey Rex..

Did ya see this?

This article made me think of p_p_man and Sinthysist, for some reason.


Joseph Farah
Posted: April 25, 2002
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=27382

I think that's what she was getting @ with the 'fool' thing and all..

 

[gridiron]

Once again..

I am too slow to point out a blatant error.. Thank you, Bluespoke for clearing that misunderstanding up for him..

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: Re: Re: Re: well...

You didn't get it then and you don't get it now.

It's not Cheyenne's words it's a cut and paste. Not her views merely a document for discussion.

Not to mention it is clearly marked with the real author's name and the site address!

Do you think he'll catch it THIS time???

 

[bluespoke]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: well...

Not to mention it is clearly marked with the real author's name and the site address!

Do you think he'll catch it THIS time???

Doh! I dunno.

 

[Rex1960]

after all i got it now

please accept my apologies

don't call me fool but blind

Rex

 

[bluespoke]

after all i got it now

please accept my apologies

don't call me fool but blind

Rex

Fear not, we all do it.

 

[Guest]

bored1

On what data do you base your claim that a majority of arabs do not want peace? Personal interviews with every one of them?

You will see no peace marches in the arab countries precisely because they are authoritarian. They are the most oppressive regimes in existence today and they are fully supported by the US just as long as they keep the oil coming. Perhaps that is why so many arabs are angry at the US. We profess to be freedom loving and champion the cause of democracy at every turn but as soon as oil enters the picture we toss our values aside and support the oppression of the arab peoples with a wink and a nod to their governments. Remember the Shah? He brutalized his people but that was OK by us because he was "our friend"

One last note. The Palestinians don't hold the monopoly on terrorism and murder. Anyone remember Baruch Goldstein?

 

[Rex1960]

Re: bored1

On what data do you base......The Palestinians don't hold the monopoly on terrorism and murder. Anyone remember Baruch Goldstein?

you might be right with your points - but its kinda unfair posting unregistered...

Rex

 

[Spinaroonie]

The Arab students on campus who argue for peace in Palestine are MUCH nicer and friendly than the Israelis.

I've talked to both sides and I can just say that there's no clear solution and both sides are at fault and the leaders suck.

 

[Rex1960]

The Arab students on campus who argue for peace in Palestine are MUCH nicer and friendly than the Israelis.

this is kinda like all the other simplifications

I've talked to both sides and I can just say that there's no clear solution and both sides are at fault and the leaders suck.

here i do agree - and those leaders who try to leave the path are killed like Sadat, King Hussein and others

 

[SINthysist]

p_p_man -They made a PBS documentary about those charity groups. They filmed it up it Kansas City. Lots of death to Israel and masked Hamas members claiming to have killed Jews. President Bush, el shrubo dumbo to you, cut off the flow of money to terrorism by going after amny of these charitable organizations.

I mean, as long as I was mentioned…

“An Egyptian Intellectual” – What, they got a department somewhere that passes out that title?

 

[crystalhunting]

There are no Arab peace marchers.

That is pure Bull...


1.http://host10.cpusa.org/article/articleview/945/


March 30 protests back peace plan
Archive Recent Editions 2002 Editions Apr 6, 2002
Author: Tim Wheeler
People's Weekly World Newspaper, Apr 6, 2002


WASHINGTON – Chanting “End the occupation now,” 3,000 protesters of many faiths and backgrounds rallied in Freedom Plaza here Mar. 30, Palestinian “Land Day,” to demand that President Bush give strong backing to the Arab League’s plan for a Palestinian-Israeli peace.

Hundreds of thousands took to the streets of cities around the world to express outrage that Bush endorsed Sharon’s self-declared “war” on the Palestinian people. Peace advocates came here from New York City, Baltimore and other cities to protest the dangerous violence in the Middle East. There were also rallies of 4,000 in Los Angeles, 800 Seattle, 2,000 in Chicago and 3,000 Detroit, among other U.S. cities.

Ziad Asali, president of the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC), told the rally, “The killing, the occupation, the torment and the grief have gone on far too long. We must all come to our senses before it is too late and agree that a Palestinian state with its capital in Jerusalem must live side by side in equality with a secure and peaceful Israel.”

Asali urged Bush to support this vision, saying Bush “must act now to stop Sharon’s new escalation and the attack on President Arafat. He must stop putting the onus on the beseiged and occupied Palestinians only and start to hold Israel accountable for its behavior, too. Too much is at stake to allow this conflict to spiral out of control.”

The ADC, he concluded, welcomes “the Arab League’s unanimous endorsement of a proposal for full normalization of relations with Israel” in exchange for a full Israeli withdrawal from the Arab lands it occupied in 1967 and the creation of a Palestinian state.

Hasan A. Rahman, the Chief Representative of the Palestine National Authority (PNA) in Washington said Sharon’s assault “is destroying the foundation of a possible peace between Israel and the Palestinians. How can the United States support the military assault on Arafat and claim to be supporting the peace process? I take this opportunity to tell Mr. [Colin] Powell, ‘Supporting Sharon’s attack on the Palestine National Authority is a disaster for United States interests in the region.’”

Rahman called on the crowd to “take the high moral ground and oppose killings of both Israeli and Palestinian people. We have the same respect for human life whether it is Israelis or Palestinians or any other nationality who are dying.”

Asked about Hamas’ terrorist attacks in which scores of innocent Israeli Jews and Arabs have died, Elizabeth Shanklin, chairperson of the Bronx County Green Party, told the World, “Whose interest did these bombings serve? It serves the interests of those who want to annihilate the Palestinian people.”

Shanklin also urged a big turnout for the April 20 March on Washington to Stop the War. “The Arab League offered peace, offered recognition for Israel. Sharon spurned that offer. He couldn’t do that without the complicity of the Bush administration.”

Jean Snyder, of Greenbelt, Md., told the World of a petition being circulated by Churches for Middle East Peace in support of statehood for the Palestinian people and an end to the violence. “I think the churches have to stand up and speak out for justice in the Middle East,” she said. “Its just a few rich, powerful people who stand in the way of peace. We need to write to Bush and our Representatives demanding peace. If they don’t listen, vote them out of office.”

The author can be reached at greenerpastures21212@yahoo.com

want some more??????????????


CH

 

[crystalhunting]

and this is what has been happening since it all got extreme,read this carefully.



2.http://www.rnw.nl/hotspots/html/israel001010.html


Arabs in Israel


by our Middle East editor Bertus Hendriks, 10 October 2000


Large scale Israeli military action against the Palestinians has been avoided, at least for now. After frantic diplomatic activity led by US President Bill Clinton, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak has extended his ultimatum which expired on Monday by another three or four days. He has also accepted President Clinton's idea of a summit meeting with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and Mr. Clinton, hosted by President Mubarak of Egypt. But all sides insist that such a summit can only take place if it is sure to put an end to the violence. That could still prove to be a difficult task.

One of the most worrying developments in the current crisis has been the extension of the struggle to Israel's Arab Palestinian citizens. Many Israeli Arabs felt insulted by the heavy death toll inflicted by the Israeli security forces right at the start of the protests, following the controversial visit of Israeli right wing opposition leader Ariel Sharon to the Temple Mount with Al Aqsa mosque. When they took to the streets in solidarity with their fellow Palestinians from the other side, the Israeli police reacted again in a very heavy-handed way: ten Israeli Arabs were killed in the first weekend of the current wave of violence.

Outrage
These events continue to send shock waves through Israel. The Arab Israelis were outraged: all those years they feel, they have been law abiding citizens of the State of Israel, and at the very first sign of serious protest, not only wholly justified in their eyes, but also a basic right in every democracy, they are being shot in numbers. Many Israeli citizens were no less outraged. They felt that at the moment of danger, when the Jewish state faced a violent challenge from Yasser Arafat's Palestinians, Israel's Arab citizens acted as a fifth column, stabbing the nation in the back.

Recriminations
The mutual recriminations have now led to a very dangerous escalation, especially in Nazareth, the city within Israel with the largest Israeli Arab population. Last weekend the house of an Arab-Israeli Member of Parliament, Azmi Bishara, was besieged by Jewish demonstrators, and on Sunday attacks upon the town's Arab inhabitants led to two being killed and many more wounded. The anti-Arab Israeli riots have spread to mixed neighbourhoods in Tel Aviv and Jaffa, Ashkelon and elsewhere. The spread of what is already called the "Jewish Intifada" has been sufficiently worrying for Israel's Chief Rabbi, Israel Lau, to issue an appeal to the public not to take the law into their own hands. He also called for the Israeli cabinet to announce that it would step up its measures to protect all of Israel's citizens.

Bitterness
In the meantime the bitterness of the Israeli Arab community is rising steeply. For more than 50 years they have been docile citizens of a state that was imposed on them, that kept them under military rule for almost twenty years, and that has deprived them of most of their land through a whole series of expropriation laws in order to allow the economic development of Jewish towns and settlements. At the same time, they felt heavily discriminated against in the allocation of funds for the development of their own Arab towns and villages in Israel, which also lag behind in essential services such as health and education. It is in providing many of those services that the Islamic Movement, which never had much of a foothold inside the Arab Israeli community, has been able to become a significant force in places such as Nazareth and Umm al-Fahme.

Discrimination
Mr. Barak's government is aware of the discrimination: immediately after the first Arab Israeli protests, it hastened to announce a 4 billion shekel package to the Arab sector to alleviate some of worst complaints. But the present wounds will take a long time to heal. 95% of Israeli Arabs cast their vote for Mr. Barak in the last election, in support of his peace platform. Instead of enjoying peace, they are now mourning deaths in their own community, and facing what some Israeli peace activists don't hesitate to call anti-Palestinian progroms. That is certainly an overstatement, but still a telling comment on how far things have gone astray.

Links


The Question of Jerusalem
Palestinian Internet News Center
State of Israel Government Gateway
Palestine History
Disclaimer: Radio Netherlands is not responsible for the content of external Web sites




© 2000




want some more even??????????

CH