When you're Dick, all the rest of you are just pussies

[Huckleman2000]

Here we finally get to the heart of it - Cheney wanted to torture a POW into providing a link between Iraq and al Qaida. This prisoner, former head of Saddam's secret police, wasn't a "terr'ist", didn't have any ticking time bomb, was a known official of a nation-state (so he was "uniformed") and therefore wasn't a candidate for extra-Geneva interrogations, even under the tortured legal justifications the Bush administration ginned up.

If the US doesn't do something fast, Cheney's going to end up in the cell next to Milosevic in The Hague.

Cheney's Role Deepens

Robert Windrem, who covered terrorism for NBC, reports exclusively in The Daily Beast that:

*Two U.S. intelligence officers confirm that Vice President Cheney’s office suggested waterboarding an Iraqi prisoner, a former intelligence official for Saddam Hussein, who was suspected to have knowledge of a Saddam-al Qaeda connection.

*The former chief of the Iraq Survey Group, Charles Duelfer, in charge of interrogations, tells The Daily Beast that he considered the request reprehensible.

*Much of the information in the report of the 9/11 Commission was provided through more than 30 sessions of torture of detainees.

 

[sr71plt]

was a known official of a nation-state (so he was "uniformed")[/URL]

Sorry, this doesn't wash under the Geneva conventions. Those are for uniformed military only.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Sorry, this doesn't wash under the Geneva conventions. Those are for uniformed military only.

The man was head of the Iraqi secret police - you want epaulets and shoulder braids?

 

[sr71plt]

The man was head of the Iraqi secret police - you want epaulets and shoulder braids?

No. I just don't see that incorrect statements are helpful in this instance--they will just water down your argument. Intell agents aren't covered under the Geneva Convention. As someone who lived overseas for seventeen years as an intell agent, I pretty much know what protections (even just words on paper) I had and which ones I didn't.

 

[JackLuis]

This thread should be titled, "If you are a big enough dick, then all the rest of you are pussies."

and our boy Richard is the biggest Dick since Nixon!

 

[OnDisplay]

[personal info prohibited per our forum guidelines]

 

[Dragonlipz]

'Luke, I am your father'......

 

[fieryjen]

*beerspew*

Wow, that was most appropriate.

ETA: referring to the post two above mine, since Dragonlipz was a tad faster than me.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Here we finally get to the heart of it - Cheney wanted to torture a POW into providing a link between Iraq and al Qaida. This prisoner, former head of Saddam's secret police, wasn't a "terr'ist", didn't have any ticking time bomb, was a known official of a nation-state (so he was "uniformed") and therefore wasn't a candidate for extra-Geneva interrogations, even under the tortured legal justifications the Bush administration ginned up.

If the US doesn't do something fast, Cheney's going to end up in the cell next to Milosevic in The Hague.

Cheney's Role Deepens

Dick Cheney in response to a snotty, well groomed, metrosexual lawyer:

"You can't handle the truth!!!"

 

[Huckleman2000]

No. I just don't see that incorrect statements are helpful in this instance--they will just water down your argument. Intell agents aren't covered under the Geneva Convention. As someone who lived overseas for seventeen years as an intell agent, I pretty much know what protections (even just words on paper) I had and which ones I didn't.

He wasn't an agent, he was a government official. No one has suggested that Iraqi government officials are Unlawful Combatants. And he was cooperating; he simply wasn't telling interrogators what Cheney wanted to hear.

 

[sr71plt]

He wasn't an agent, he was a government official. No one has suggested that Iraqi government officials are Unlawful Combatants. And he was cooperating; he simply wasn't telling interrogators what Cheney wanted to hear.

*sigh* Look at it from any angle you like; the Geneva Convention is for uniformed military personnel in a declared war. You invoked the Geneva Convention. Doing so hurts your argument.

 

[Huckleman2000]

*sigh* Look at it from any angle you like; the Geneva Convention is for uniformed military personnel in a declared war. You invoked the Geneva Convention. Doing so hurts your argument.

It also has articles dealing with treatment of civilians in an occupation, and other categories. It also covers active members of a nation's armed forces, even if they aren't in uniform when captured.

You want to leave out Geneva? Fine.

Under what (lack of) international customs, treaties, or obligations is the US government free to torture captured government officials of another nation with impunity? Because we have the biggest Dick? That's barbaric!

 

[sr71plt]

It also has articles dealing with treatment of civilians in an occupation, and other categories. It also covers active members of a nation's armed forces, even if they aren't in uniform when captured.

You want to leave out Geneva? Fine.

Under what (lack of) international customs, treaties, or obligations is the US government free to torture captured government officials of another nation with impunity? Because we have the biggest Dick? That's barbaric!

I'm not arguing against your overall point. I'm just saying you misused Geneva and it watered down your overall point.

I don't fall for spurious arguments on either side of this issue.

 

[JackLuis]

I'm not arguing against your overall point. I'm just saying you misused Geneva and it watered down your overall point.

I don't fall for spurious arguments on either side of this issue.

Yeah Huck lighten up on the Prop Jockey, he was just belaboring the point to make you respond. Sometimes he can't let it drop.

I agree that this was a barbaric act brought on by the cowardice of Dick Cheney. He got so scared of "Terrorists" that he became one and shifted to the Dark Side. Now we have this stain on our National Honor, I suppose you know who should serve as America's scape goat, don't you.

No, not that sniveling Cowboy after all he is a Bush . No it will be Dick Cheney who takes the fall just like Scooter did. But I doubt Dick will be as graceful in falling on his sword as Scooter.

He'll squeal like a pig when they tie the rope around his neck.

 

[sr71plt]

He'll squeal like a pig when they tie the rope around his neck.

Naw, he'll die of natural causes before he'd ever be brought into the dock of an actual court.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Naw, he'll die of natural causes before he'd ever be brought into the dock of an actual court.

You mean "natural causes"...
I just wonder if that would qualify for the biggest epic-fail Darwin Award ever. "He got himself into such a fuck-up of internationally despicable incompetence and moral cowardice that he needed to be eliminated rather than acknowledge that the most powerful nation in history behaved the way it did under his control."

 

[sr71plt]

You mean "natural causes"...
I just wonder if that would qualify for the biggest epic-fail Darwin Award ever. "He got himself into such a fuck-up of internationally despicable incompetence and moral cowardice that he needed to be eliminated rather than acknowledge that the most powerful nation in history behaved the way it did under his control."

No, I mean the man has almost died so many times of a heart attack that sooner or later it's going to happen--any stress could push him over the edge.

 

[JackLuis]

No, I mean the man has almost died so many times of a heart attack that sooner or later it's going to happen--any stress could push him over the edge.

I think an indictment and having the Marshals show up to escort him to jail might do the trick.

Obama could solemnly regret that the VP couldn't clear his name before he died and we bury the asshole, and plant a oak tree on his grave so the future leaders will see the tree of liberty fertilized with blood of Tyrants. Front lawn of the White house seems good to me.

Lets do it today!

 

[3113]

we bury the asshole, and plant a oak tree on his grave so the future leaders will see the tree of liberty fertilized with blood of Tyrants. Front lawn of the White house seems good to me.

Green thinking! I like it

 

[sr71plt]

Unfortunately, the most likely thing to happen is just for it all to be dropped. And it's something that should be made an example of, I think.

 

[Boota]

Unfortunately, the most likely thing to happen is just for it all to be dropped. And it's something that should be made an example of, I think.

I agree. Nothing will happen, although he should be brought to trial. Can you imagine the things he would bring to public knowledge to save his wretched life. When I watched The Lord of the Rings and saw Wormtongue manipulating the weakened king I immediately thought, "Holy shit! That's Dick Cheney!"

If there was any justice, and there isn't, Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld, among others, would all be brought up on charges.

 

[john-the-author]

Here we finally get to the heart of it - Cheney wanted to torture a POW into providing a link between Iraq and al Qaida. This prisoner, former head of Saddam's secret police, wasn't a "terr'ist", didn't have any ticking time bomb, was a known official of a nation-state (so he was "uniformed") and therefore wasn't a candidate for extra-Geneva interrogations, even under the tortured legal justifications the Bush administration ginned up.

If the US doesn't do something fast, Cheney's going to end up in the cell next to Milosevic in The Hague.

Cheney's Role Deepens

You say that like it's a bad thing having Cheney in a cell next to other war criminals.

I hope they skin him alive.

 

[DesertPirate]

I agree. Nothing will happen, although he should be brought to trial. Can you imagine the things he would bring to public knowledge to save his wretched life. When I watched The Lord of the Rings and saw Wormtongue manipulating the weakened king I immediately thought, "Holy shit! That's Dick Cheney!"

If there was any justice, and there isn't, Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld, among others, would all be brought up on charges.

As long as Biden has his security clearance revoked and is forced to resign for talking about the VP bunker

Bottom line, there will be no trials because it can be done to every administration for many reasons.

 

[Huckleman2000]

[...]Bottom line, there will be no trials because it can be done to every administration for many reasons.

No, not every administration has used torture. Not every administration lied us into a war which profits their cronies.

You have no sense of proportion.

 

[DesertPirate]

No, not every administration has used torture. Not every administration lied us into a war which profits their cronies.

You have no sense of proportion.

Ahh one who thinks only what the blogs spew, I see now