When is Cyber-ing Cheating, thoughts? opinions?

[tiwolf]

Hi Y’all I read a message here recently from a wife who was upset when she discovered her husband was cyber-ing and considered it cheating. So, when does cyber-ing constitute cheating?

I guess the obvious instances would be:

1. Trying to arrange a meeting (rendezvous) with your cyber partner(s).
2. Ignoring your mates needs (intimacies) in favor of cyber-ing
3. Place cyber-ing foremost in your life’s priorities.

Now, barring the above is there a big difference between fantasy masturbation (stars/starlets, models, etc) and cyber-ing. If you never intend to go beyond simple fantasy lovers, are you cheating? You read in some sex therapy articles that it is ok to fantasize when making love to your SO. Just be careful whose name you call out when you have that orgasm!

Do some SO’s consider violated because it is happening under their roof and almost in their presence. Some would say that if we are so secretive about what we are doing, there must be guilt and it must not be right. For me, I have an extreme attraction for Asian Ladies and fantasize about having sex with them. Now, I am happily married and would not leave my wife for another, but I would not go running to here to tell her this fantasy or want her to find out. I would not want to hurt her feelings thinking that she is not satisfying me and not making me happy. Quite the contrary is true, but I still have the fantasy. So, is it better to repress the fantasy, explore it through cyber-ing (without any thoughts of making it a reality)?

What are some opinions, thoughts? The thoughts expressed here will not be representative of everyone, but may provide some insight.

Thanks

 

[Akiko 1]

married asian here...

...hey hon, it's me again! Just thought I'd put my two cents in because we are both in the same boat here as we are married, happily I may add, and not looking at all to leave our significant others for anyone else. I agree with your top three about when cybering oversteps the boundaries and does indeed become cheating. To each his own though, and some would say that we are both right now 'cheating', although I don't see it that way at all. I think our fantasies online is okay as long as it doesn't become a reality to be openly fufilled by the two or more individuals involved. Am I making sense? Anyway, chat with you soon!

Akiko

 

[unfaithful2005]

I take it you were referring to me??? If I must explain, the reason I acted the way I did is because I have given my husband plenty of leeway when it comes to attraction with other people. With my generosity and trust, I felt he at least owed me respect and honesty. When I see someone is hot, I feel free enough to share it with him and he does the same. I know its me he loves, so I'm not offended. Sexual attraction is natural. Its pointless to pretend it doesn't exist. We're open enough that I can even tell him when we're having sex that I can imagine that 3rd person with us. That's why I'm still baffled why things turned out this way.

I don't feel offended or jealous when he tells me so and so is hot. I respect that he is at least honest and open enough to share his thoughts with me. I even feel comfortable enough when he comments that he likes how my friends breasts look in her shirt. We joke about things like that a lot

I felt it was cheating because he hid this from me. I felt it was selfish and inconsiderate to indulge in mutual masturbation when your wife had no clue while she slept in the room nextdoor. If your wife did the same behind your back, could you then understand the anger??? My final 2 cents is if you feel you have to hide it, then its probably because your mind knows that its wrong, but your hormones are overriding it.

Don't know how liberal your wife is, but I wouldn't be upset if my husband tells me his fantasies. In fact, I encourage it because knowing anyone that intimately is also exciting. It was just disappointing that he chose to share his inner self to complete strangers rather than with me.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

My vote

I am the one who voted that its always cheating.
I should qualfy that by saying, only if it is surreptitious.
If you feel you have to hide it, then you know your s.o. would not be comfortable, would feel betrayed.
So, if you have to hide it, its cheating
but
I do it anyway. It is less destructive than physical (real life) cheating.

 

[hotlyn]

I take it you were referring to me??? If I must explain, the reason I acted the way I did is because I have given my husband plenty of leeway when it comes to attraction with other people. With my generosity, I felt he at least owed me respect and honesty. When I see someone is hot, I feel free enough to share it with him and he does the same. Sexual attraction is natural. Its pointless to pretend it doesn't exist. We're open enough that I can even tell him when we're having sex that I can imagine that 3rd person with us. That's why I'm still baffled why things turned out this way.

I don't feel offended or jealous when he tells me so and so is hot. I respect that he is at least honest. I feel comfortable enough when he comments that he likes how my friends breasts look in her shirt.

I felt it was cheating because he hid this from me. I felt it was selfish and inconsiderate to indulge in mutual masturbation when your wife had no clue while she slept in the room nextdoor. If your wife did the same behind your back, could you then understand the anger??? My final 2 cents is if you feel you have to hide it, then its probably because your mind knows that its wrong, but your hormones are overriding it.

Don't know how liberal your wife is, but I wouldn't be upset if my husband tells me his fantasies. In fact, I encourage it because knowing anyone that intimately is also exciting. It was just disappointing that he chose to share his inner self to complete strangers rather than own his wife.

Hi... it's Lyn
I am so sorry sweetheart.

 

[tiwolf]

Just Looking For A Picture of the Landscape

I take it you were referring to me??? If I must explain, the reason I acted the way I did is because I have given my husband plenty of leeway when it comes to attraction with other people. With my generosity, I felt he at least owed me respect and honesty. When I see someone is hot, I feel free enough to share it with him and he does the same. Sexual attraction is natural. Its pointless to pretend it doesn't exist. We're open enough that I can even tell him when we're having sex that I can imagine that 3rd person with us. That's why I'm still baffled why things turned out this way.

I don't feel offended or jealous when he tells me so and so is hot. I respect that he is at least honest. I feel comfortable enough when he comments that he likes how my friends breasts look in her shirt.

I felt it was cheating because he hid this from me. I felt it was selfish and inconsiderate to indulge in mutual masturbation when your wife had no clue while she slept in the room nextdoor. If your wife did the same behind your back, could you then understand the anger??? My final 2 cents is if you feel you have to hide it, then its probably because your mind knows that its wrong, but your hormones are overriding it.

Don't know how liberal your wife is, but I wouldn't be upset if my husband tells me his fantasies. In fact, I encourage it because knowing anyone that intimately is also exciting. It was just disappointing that he chose to share his inner self to complete strangers rather than own his wife.

First, I must say that I wasn't referring to you (only to the post!). There will certainly be a miriad of avid opinions on this subject (pro, con and abstain). I am just trying to gauge a general feeling about this practice that the net has provided with anonimity to a degree (instead of mailing letters to PO Boxes). Oh, for the record, I am not a fan of phone sex. I re-read what I posted and don't feel that I was being judgemental toward your right to feel betrayed/hurt. If you feel that way, that is certainly your right! I tried to synop your post into how many feel it is cheating no matter what, how many don't feel that way and where does the middle lie. This will certainly not garner the inputs from the statistical population or even a representative random sample.

Even if I see someone wherever (on the street, neighbourhood party, etc.), I don't go out of my way to tell my spouse that Sally/Freda/Harriet looked hot or she has great boobs. I respect her in that to utter that to her would cause her to do some type of self evaluation of why I don't think she looks attractive anymore. I reserve those observations in my head. Now if she says don't you think...looked good in that dress/suit/outfit. I will respond in kind. Yes it looked good on her, no I think it was a little short/tight/revealing for someone her age. By the same token, she hasn't told me that Bob/George/Harry has quite a package down there. That would not help my self esteem. Anyhow, I digress.

Generally, we are all the molden statues/images of our cultural and moral background. I went through 12 years of strict Catholic education and believe me when I say that there are many moral barriers and bridges in my psyche. Almost everything outside of a rhythm-based, missionary position marriage was frowned upon and considered deviant behavior. When the store clerk gives you too much change your moral character tells you whether to return it or not. The only way that I can cross my mental moral bridges or leap over the barriers is to fantasize I am superman and can leap over them. Sure I'm not going to go running to the spouse and tell her I'm cyber-ing. I am doing so to explore diversionary avenues that she may have no interest in or may find not to her liking. I am not on a fishing expedition to try and catch another prize (I already have my prize - only respect here no intended chauvinism). If I felt something lacking in the sexual department, I would mention it as would she and we would work through it. The fantasy roads that I'm traveling are not leading to another. For I am a firm believer that you don't realize who you have until you lose them. I am not going to put that in jeopardy by broadcasting my activities. Why would/should I? I have had some interesting chats and diversional fantasies that will never occur in reality nor would they.

Again, I digress and am too windy here. I will neither defend nor attack cyber-ing. It becomes an issue when its practice is really a subterfuge/ruse to find another or reach out and physically touch your heretofore imaginary cyber mate.

Please take no further offense (directly or indirectly) from me or my post. What I have presented is my opinion (certainly not to be confused with the opinions of the rest of the civilized world) on this matter. For me, I'm okay with it as long as I don't try to realify it.

You have every right to express your pain/feelings of betrayal/hurt, because that is your right and that is how you feel. The majority may quite well be in your court/corner.

I hope that your situation will be resolved in a manner that comforts you.

 

[tiwolf]

Nice to Hear your Voice (through the written word) Again

...hey hon, it's me again! Just thought I'd put my two cents in because we are both in the same boat here as we are married, happily I may add, and not looking at all to leave our significant others for anyone else. I agree with your top three about when cybering oversteps the boundaries and does indeed become cheating. To each his own though, and some would say that we are both right now 'cheating', although I don't see it that way at all. I think our fantasies online is okay as long as it doesn't become a reality to be openly fufilled by the two or more individuals involved. Am I making sense? Anyway, chat with you soon!

Akiko

Hi Akiko

Totally agree with you (obviously). I don't view our relationship intrusive or dangerous to our SO's. Patiently awaiting your next chat. Have a couple more tales for your perusal

Later


(That was the most exciting sexual encounter without actually having it, I ever almost had)

 

[Southern Lites]

Personally I feel that as long as it is kept in the fantasy realm/self pleasure, then it's not really harmful. Then again since I'm of the single/divorced status, maybe my opinion would be different if I was married.

That said, a close friend of mine enjoys cybering as her hubby is on the road a lot (he's a truck driver). She tells me that they have a healthy and active sex life when he's home, but work keeps him away for varying lengths of time, so she fills in any lonely times on the computer. She told me that she felt guilty when she tried to cyber initially, so she had a rather unique idea (or maybe not; I lead a rather sheltered life ). She pretends to be a guy and goes into the gay chats and cybers that way. I thought she was putting me on when she told me this (I actually thought it was the bottle of Tequila that we had been sharing one evening). She then proceeded to log onto the computer and took me on a tour of the various chats she frequented. She showed me that I should certainly get out more LOL.

 

[tiwolf]

Beginning of the Road

I am the one who voted that its always cheating.
I should qualfy that by saying, only if it is surreptitious.
If you feel you have to hide it, then you know your s.o. would not be comfortable, would feel betrayed.
So, if you have to hide it, its cheating
but
I do it anyway. It is less destructive than physical (real life) cheating.

Again, the hiding etc is precipitated by moral and cultural upbringing. It can be extreme, like in my case the adage was if it feels good it must be wrong!

Do we tell our SO's everything about everything or do we hide other things?

I am in agreement that it is less destructive than real life cheating but if your intent from the get go was cheating (and not fantasy exploration), it will certainly help push you down that destructive path! If you see and recognize the road signs signs taking you in that direction, best get off the superslab and reverse course.

 

[tiwolf]

Opinions, opinions are like... everybody has...

Point of clarification. I am looking at the general feeling out there. Any opionions statements etc from me are mine alone.

I am not out to change your opinions (I can't) only to hear them.

Nor am I defending any particular practice or opinion other than my own,


(That was the most exciting sexual encounter without actually having it, I ever almost had)

 

[tiwolf]

Spin the Bottle (Jose Quervo)

Personally I feel that as long as it is kept in the fantasy realm/self pleasure, then it's not really harmful. Then again since I'm of the single/divorced status, maybe my opinion would be different if I was married.

That said, a close friend of mine enjoys cybering as her hubby is on the road a lot (he's a truck driver). She tells me that they have a healthy and active sex life when he's home, but work keeps him away for varying lengths of time, so she fills in any lonely times on the computer. She told me that she felt guilty when she tried to cyber initially, so she had a rather unique idea (or maybe not; I lead a rather sheltered life ). She pretends to be a guy and goes into the gay chats and cybers that way. I thought she was putting me on when she told me this (I actually thought it was the bottle of Tequila that we had been sharing one evening). She then proceeded to log onto the computer and took me on a tour of the various chats she frequented. She showed me that I should certainly get out more LOL.

Hmm, now that is an interesting approach, unless she hooks up with a straight male who is pretending to be gay so that..... Oh give me the lime and salt and pass that bottle please!


(That was the most exciting sexual encounter without actually having it, I ever almost had)

 

[unfaithful2005]

Even if I see someone wherever (on the street, neighbourhood party, etc.), I don't go out of my way to tell my spouse that Sally/Freda/Harriet looked hot or she has great boobs. I respect her in that to utter that to her would cause her to do some type of self evaluation of why I don't think she looks attractive anymore. I reserve those observations in my head.

Sure I'm not going to go running to the spouse and tell her I'm cyber-ing. I am doing so to explore diversionary avenues that she may have no interest in or may find not to her liking. I am not on a fishing expedition to try and catch another prize (I already have my prize - only respect here no intended chauvinism). If I felt something lacking in the sexual department, I would mention it as would she and we would work through it. The fantasy roads that I'm traveling are not leading to another. For I am a firm believer that you don't realize who you have until you lose them. I am not going to put that in jeopardy by broadcasting my activities. Why would/should I? I have had some interesting chats and diversional fantasies that will never occur in reality nor would they.

Again, I digress and am too windy here. I will neither defend nor attack cyber-ing. It becomes an issue when its practice is really a subterfuge/ruse to find another or reach out and physically touch your heretofore imaginary cyber mate.

Please take no further offense (directly or indirectly) from me or my post. What I have presented is my opinion (certainly not to be confused with the opinions of the rest of the civilized world) on this matter. For me, I'm okay with it as long as I don't try to realify it.

You have every right to express your pain/feelings of betrayal/hurt, because that is your right and that is how you feel. The majority may quite well be in your court/corner.

I hope that your situation will be resolved in a manner that comforts you.

Hi TiWolf,

I sincerely apologize if my post sounded more defensive than intended. Sometimes written words express a tone thats not intentional. I recall one reply that questioned why I considered this cheating when its just online and I have expressed why it is in my OWN unique case. I'm not here to judge what you chose to do or make you feel wrong for continuing it. It may well just be what you explained it is, a divertional fantasy. Its probably the same sentiment that my SO had when he started this.

Even though he tells me he had no intent to make me feel bad, the end result was still that I was crushed. Its a painful discovery that your SO could utter such private words to complete strangers and not share it with you. Wouldn;t you feel the same if you discovered your wife was online and telling them her fantasy and not to you?Deception to me is a form of betrayal, done intentionally or not. My SO's reasoning that he didn't want to tell me because I might get hurt didn't lessen the pain one bit.

Of course I don't expect you to rush to your wife and tell her about this. Your choice to conceal it indicates you're aware that revelation may just flush the marriage straight down the toilet. However, just be aware that if that dreaded day of discovery should ever befall on you, the tears in her eyes will evaporate any fun that all of this had in the first place. For your sake and hers, be very careful to never get caught. Consequences can be devastating and folks don't usually realize that until the damage is done. Cover your tracks better than my husband did - he never expected I would find out either and look what happened. Thats all...

 

[Cathleen]

I didn't vote in the poll. It does not reflect the status of the relationship at hand. (IMHO) The inherent issue here is what the couple sets as their standards, acceptable behaviors etc. For many cybering may be acceptable and for others it is not.

To me what is the crux is the feelings of each person. There are a few comments here that said much to me:

Even though he tells me he had no intent to make me feel bad, the end result was still that I was crushed.

There is no right or wrong with feelings, they just are. Unfaithful was crushed, clearly her husband's behavior was far outside of what she thought acceptable in their relationship. Now, the key is have they clearly stated what they feel would be unacceptable? I think we all assume some basic tenents within a committed relationship. Assuming doesn't work so well, we need to speak and as importantly, we need to hear. There needs to be a contract of sorts.

This isn't a maybe kind of thing. Once the other party is hurt then, in my opinion, the behavior in question was wrong for their relationship. It was cheating in her mind so there is no need to question the validity of that fact. I guess it is the idea that if one party thinks it is cheating then it is cheating. Each relationship needs to decide for themselves.

I am doing so to explore diversionary avenues that she may have no interest in or may find not to her liking.

My question here is, why are you are not giving her the option to explore her feelings on the issue? Your method here leaves her out of the equation totally. She may or may not like the behavior but isn't it fair to allow her to decide that for herself? I think the statement is 'assbackwards', a cop out and a heck of a rationalization for you to do as you want without regard to your wife's thoughts. You don't know how she would feel, I think finding out that information is paramount. (I really don't want to use these words, as I am not attacking you. I can't seem to get the words I want but I mean only to further the discussion.)

I liked your analogy of receiving too much change back for a purchase. Will you or won't you do what is right (again, using the general acceptance of certain moral codes)? My immediate reaction to that question was of course I'd return the money, have many times as well. That is automatic to me. But the question of is cybering cheating...... that instantly brings others into the matter and then the behavior's appropriateness needs to be addressed. I do think there must be a meeting of the minds. If I'm concealing there is a reason for it and I sure will rationalize to a fair-thee well, until I get honest with myself.

Each time this question comes up here at Lit, it is always interesting to me. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[DLL]

yes it is cheating. end of debate.

 

[MrFantasyMan]

I didn't vote in the poll. It does not reflect the status of the relationship at hand. (IMHO) The inherent issue here is what the couple sets as their standards, acceptable behaviors etc. For many cybering may be acceptable and for others it is not.

To me what is the crux is the feelings of each person. There are a few comments here that said much to me:



There is no right or wrong with feelings, they just are. Unfaithful was crushed, clearly her husband's behavior was far outside of what she thought acceptable in their relationship. Now, the key is have they clearly stated what they feel would be unacceptable? I think we all assume some basic tenents within a committed relationship. Assuming doesn't work so well, we need to speak and as importantly, we need to hear. There needs to be a contract of sorts.

This isn't a maybe kind of thing. Once the other party is hurt then, in my opinion, the behavior in question was wrong for their relationship. It was cheating in her mind so there is no need to question the validity of that fact. I guess it is the idea that if one party thinks it is cheating then it is cheating. Each relationship needs to decide for themselves.



My question here is, why are you are not giving her the option to explore her feelings on the issue? Your method here leaves her out of the equation totally. She may or may not like the behavior but isn't it fair to allow her to decide that for herself? I think the statement is 'assbackwards', a cop out and a heck of a rationalization for you to do as you want without regard to your wife's thoughts. You don't know how she would feel, I think finding out that information is paramount. (I really don't want to use these words, as I am not attacking you. I can't seem to get the words I want but I mean only to further the discussion.)

I liked your analogy of receiving too much change back for a purchase. Will you or won't you do what is right (again, using the general acceptance of certain moral codes)? My immediate reaction to that question was of course I'd return the money, have many times as well. That is automatic to me. But the question of is cybering cheating...... that instantly brings others into the matter and then the behavior's appropriateness needs to be addressed. I do think there must be a meeting of the minds. If I'm concealing there is a reason for it and I sure will rationalize to a fair-thee well, until I get honest with myself.

Each time this question comes up here at Lit, it is always interesting to me. Thanks for the discussion.

I think Cathleen has cut to the real bottom line here. Your perspective and insight are very pragmatic and honest. I agree with almost everything you have said...and it shows you have given this much thought. The key factor which you, and I, seem to understand is that in a RELATIONSHIP there is more than one perspective. The issue of cheating has to be seen from both sides...two views...two thoughts...two people.

Judging anyone elses behavior isnt what we are here for...if they have no problem then that is their perrogativge...my only thought is if either party even feels it is...IT IS...your absolutely right that feelings cant, and should not, be rationalized...they ARE! Anything done knowing full well how your partner feels...or not wanting to know how they feel...is deceipt which is unfaithful at best and cheating at worst. Just my opinion...thanx.

 

[unfaithful2005]

Glad to see you can understand my stance. My feeling is if its done without your better half knowing because you fear she won't approve or might begin to question herself, or feel hurt etc, it is deception and cheating. There's no way to sugar coat it.

I'm not a big fan of "what she don't know wont hurt her" concept, because even though I might not react favorably to the situation, I would rather know than not. Had my SO taken the time to explain to me why he needed to cyber, I honestly think he would have received my consent and I would not view it as cheating. Cyber is very safe sex & yes I would prefer it 10x over him having in person and under my roof sex. I certainly understand the hesitance to share this with the SO (she might cry, get mad, think you're weird, tell you to stop, etc) however, it doesn't change what the end result could be if this is something SHE sees is infidelity.

Perception of infidelity does vary from person to person and the situation. What's fair and important to me is to be given the opportunity to voice my feelings and thoughts in the situation rather than having it made for me or depriving my right to make it. If one doesn't have a clue the situation even exists, its obvious that only one has the upper hand and benefits from it. I would see it as taking advantage.

 

[Cathleen]

I certainly understand Unfaithful, it is a partnership and as such there needs to be agreement on important issues. In my opinion it does come down to if one party deems it as cheating then it is for that couple. I also can't rationalize the covert aspects, I know why I'm hiding the action.

Unfaithful, I'm sorry you have been hurt and I hope your marriage can become stronger from it.

 

[tiwolf]

Opinion-ated?

yes it is cheating. end of debate.

Well let's see first definition in Thesaurus for Debate is discussion, but then we don't have to discuss our opinions, they beong to us.

Thanks for your contribution

 

[tiwolf]

Random Thoughts or Was there really any thought given to this randomness

Ok, these thought are not going to segue in ot out of any post. I had to go to the dentist and do the drill and fill thing as well as pain medication (maybe that's why this in't going anywhere) Anyhow just thoughts for discussion purposes only!

I can remember years ago (many years ago) viewing or obtaining pornography was considered by some as cheating. If you went to an adult book store where they had (euphamistically called peep shows/booths) and watched porn movies for 25 cents per minute or two, you were considered perverted and deviant and if you were married OMG why are you here watching this. I may watch Fear Factor (really don't cause I don't like show), but if I did, I am not going out and eat sligs, worms etc. I am not going to act on what I see, even if I fantasize (or visualize) that I can do it. Don't realify the fantasy.

Now we find pornography being used (not everywhere) as a sexual stimulant or a form of foreplay and even espoused by sex therapists as long as it is of a non-vioent nature. Sex therapist also agree that if a man (in this case) wants to masturbate in the bathroom fantasing about other women (playboy, hustler), this is okay (even if he is married). Articles have been written where wives (SO) consider this a form of cheating. Am I not good enough for you?

Remember, the famous Jimmy Carter interview (circa 1976/1980) in Playboy where he admitted to lusting after women in his mind (never acting on that lust). Was he cheating on Rosalind? He contended not so, I am sorry to say that I have no data on what then Americans felt (survey). A commandment that some us live by says "shalt not covet their neighbors' wife" Covet means the desire to possess her as when David killed a soldier in his army so that he could have the soldier's wife as his own. In light of moral code was Jimmy Carter's mentally lusting a case of cheating.

Then, there is the clear cut case of cheating, i.e. the infamous Bill Clinton. He not only lusted after women, but he realified the situation with physical engagement (as dis JFK, MLK, DDE). The fact that he didn't consider receiving a blowjob as sex was an interesting capitulation, but in his mind he wasn't cheat if he could convince himself. Of course he was the only jurior of public opinion so situated.

Last, how about children if a sexually active couple cybers or actually engages in outside sexual conduct are they cheating their children? Even though the children don't see ot hear (presumably) are they taking some of the growing time await from them,

 

[bmw1080]

I take it you were referring to me??? If I must explain, the reason I acted the way I did is because I have given my husband plenty of leeway when it comes to attraction with other people. With my generosity and trust, I felt he at least owed me respect and honesty. When I see someone is hot, I feel free enough to share it with him and he does the same. I know its me he loves, so I'm not offended. Sexual attraction is natural. Its pointless to pretend it doesn't exist. We're open enough that I can even tell him when we're having sex that I can imagine that 3rd person with us. That's why I'm still baffled why things turned out this way.

I don't feel offended or jealous when he tells me so and so is hot. I respect that he is at least honest and open enough to share his thoughts with me. I even feel comfortable enough when he comments that he likes how my friends breasts look in her shirt. We joke about things like that a lot

I felt it was cheating because he hid this from me. I felt it was selfish and inconsiderate to indulge in mutual masturbation when your wife had no clue while she slept in the room nextdoor. If your wife did the same behind your back, could you then understand the anger??? My final 2 cents is if you feel you have to hide it, then its probably because your mind knows that its wrong, but your hormones are overriding it.

Don't know how liberal your wife is, but I wouldn't be upset if my husband tells me his fantasies. In fact, I encourage it because knowing anyone that intimately is also exciting. It was just disappointing that he chose to share his inner self to complete strangers rather than with me.

Well said. If you cannot share your fantasies with your partner then you should not be with her (him) and continue little escapades here.

 

[unfaithful2005]

So much typing....

Ok, these thought are not going to segue in ot out of any post. I had to go to the dentist and do the drill and fill thing as well as pain medication (maybe that's why this in't going anywhere) Anyhow just thoughts for discussion purposes only!

I can remember years ago (many years ago) viewing or obtaining pornography was considered by some as cheating. If you went to an adult book store where they had (euphamistically called peep shows/booths) and watched porn movies for 25 cents per minute or two, you were considered perverted and deviant and if you were married OMG why are you here watching this. I may watch Fear Factor (really don't cause I don't like show), but if I did, I am not going out and eat sligs, worms etc. I am not going to act on what I see, even if I fantasize (or visualize) that I can do it. Don't realify the fantasy.

Now we find pornography being used (not everywhere) as a sexual stimulant or a form of foreplay and even espoused by sex therapists as long as it is of a non-vioent nature. Sex therapist also agree that if a man (in this case) wants to masturbate in the bathroom fantasing about other women (playboy, hustler), this is okay (even if he is married). Articles have been written where wives (SO) consider this a form of cheating. Am I not good enough for you?

Remember, the famous Jimmy Carter interview (circa 1976/1980) in Playboy where he admitted to lusting after women in his mind (never acting on that lust). Was he cheating on Rosalind? He contended not so, I am sorry to say that I have no data on what then Americans felt (survey). A commandment that some us live by says "shalt not covet their neighbors' wife" Covet means the desire to possess her as when David killed a soldier in his army so that he could have the soldier's wife as his own. In light of moral code was Jimmy Carter's mentally lusting a case of cheating.

Then, there is the clear cut case of cheating, i.e. the infamous Bill Clinton. He not only lusted after women, but he realified the situation with physical engagement (as dis JFK, MLK, DDE). The fact that he didn't consider receiving a blowjob as sex was an interesting capitulation, but in his mind he wasn't cheat if he could convince himself. Of course he was the only jurior of public opinion so situated.

Last, how about children if a sexually active couple cybers or actually engages in outside sexual conduct are they cheating their children? Even though the children don't see ot hear (presumably) are they taking some of the growing time await from them,

This danced around the topic like a musical chair without ever really sitting down on the core of the question: Do YOU think your SO will see cybering as cheating? I think you already know the answer but just can't spit it out. You dont need a poll at Lit to know what constitutes cheating. You can get the most reliable answer (and the only one that really counts for that matter) from your SO or just by what your own gut tells you. Sometimes the truth hurts, but you gotta face it sometime....

 

[tiwolf]

Buying the Debate

This danced around the topic like a musical chair without ever really sitting down on the core of the question: Do you think your wife will see cybering as cheating? I think you already know the answer but just can't spit it out. I don't see anyone buying this debate and I wouldn't bet anything she would either. Come up with something better.

I am sorry but I am not selling my debate nor my opinions (doubt they would bring much). The opinions that I put in my posts were mine and mine alone. They were not put there to change anyone's opinion, to denigrate anyone's feelings, to trivialize a situation that is very real and has harmed others, nor to dance around the issue. When last I checked this was not a court, maybe I was too forward with how I was looking at this (rose colored glasses, some would say).

Anyhow, I opened up Pandora's box here and since I have sent the armor out for cleaning, I will just crawl back under my rock, lurk and listen and close survey when it seems to have run its course.

No offense intended to anyone.

 

[tiwolf]

Change from crawl under rock to return to cave

I am sorry but I am not selling my debate nor my opinions (doubt they would bring much). The opinions that I put in my posts were mine and mine alone. They were not put there to change anyone's opinion, to denigrate anyone's feelings, to trivialize a situation that is very real and has harmed others, nor to dance around the issue. When last I checked this was not a court, maybe I was too forward with how I was looking at this (rose colored glasses, some would say).

Anyhow, I opened up Pandora's box here and since I have sent the armor out for cleaning, I will just crawl back under my rock, lurk and listen and close survey when it seems to have run its course.

No offense intended to anyone.

Sorry, too big to crawl under rock (even though some may feel that is were I emerged), I will return to my Den (Cave).

 

[Cathleen]

Sorry, too big to crawl under rock (even though some may feel that is were I emerged), I will return to my Den (Cave).

No need to hibernate tiwolf, it's just a discussion - a good one at that.

I thought your views about the 'old days' when people would view porn to arouse themselves was interesting, but not germain to this discussion. There is no interaction between two feeling, thinking human beings in that example. When we interact in a manner that is reserved for our SO with another then the stakes change. Then the two in the committed relationship need to agree upon acceptable behaviors for themselves.

The topic of children in this discussion ... well, it should not be in this discussion, in my opinion. However, if a parent's behavior causes severe stress in the homelife, then it is a major problem as far as I'm concerned. Also, I don't think the adult topic of sexuality should be a topic of discussion unless it is age-appropriate. Children need to be children, they also view their parents as the end all and be all, it behooves us to behave in ways that allow the child to grow, emotionally and physically in a healthy manner.

 

[unfaithful2005]

hey, laugh a little Tiwolf,

I didn't mean to look like a nun chasing you with a cleaver to cut your privates out. No need to crawl under the rock. I am a strong debater in topics most dear to me and yes, this was a "little" tender. No worries, I'm not out to send a notice to your SO, just wanted to warn you a little of possible consequences you might be blinded to in between the "ohhhs and ahhhhs". I still think your rationalization were a little lame though, but like you said, they are your own. Touche for having the balls to share them.

Come out of the rock and play again as you please. Just remember that when you get caught with your pants down, someone already told you so. I wouldn't be surprised if I ever get a PM from you asking how to get wife your back. We might be oblivious in the beginning, but we do catch the bus in the end. We're cool now, alright?

Cheers