When Good Friends Write Bad Stories

[Bob North]

Hi, I'm not sure this is the right forum for this, but I have a bit of a writer's dilemma.

I'm in the publishing business. A while ago, a friend of mine basically pitched his novel to me and asked me to read part of it, which is online. He made it sound interesting enough, and is an articulate and intelligent person, so I gave him a maybe.

Without his knowledge I looked up the story online. Lo and behold, it's a writer's worst nightmare. Spelling, punctuation, tense-- he has all the basics wrong and on top of it the story had larger problems with character, point of view, and was just generally very amateurish. This guy is in his thirties but writes at a twelve-year-old level.

Yet he is blissfully unaware of his complete lack of talent. He truly believes in his heart that he has written the next bestseller, and every time I see him he bugs me about the story, wanting to know if I have read it yet. Each time I tell him no, because I can't bear to tell him the real truth: that he will never be published. At the same time, I can't bear to outright lie and tell him his story was great (or was even mildly good).

How do I get around this? So far, I've encouraged him to seek out the help of an editor, but that hasn't discouraged him from wanting me to read the story first. I don't want to ruin the friendship.

 

[Alex756]

Whether or not you should listen to someone who has had water colors thrown at her is probbaly a good question but in my opinion and experience -- PS experience from being dumb and dating art chicks ... tell the truth

Be honest, but slightly upbeat. Recomend a good book for learning to write. Offer to read anything they come up with without putting it off.

Its better to tell them upfront then to wait til their entire class, their class's guests, and et cetera are walking past it .. well reading in this case ...

Just be gentle and supportive. He will be devestated and its gonna suck, but hopefully it'll be OK.

Alex756

 

[Quasimodem]

Alternately, bluff!

Dear James-Johnathon,

Our firm [ does not publish ][ is overstocked with] works of the genre in which your manuscript was written. My best advice is that you should offer your story to an objective publisher who is actively seeking work within your specialty.

I feel if you pursue this course of action, your work would stand its best chance of gaining the recognition it deserves.

Sincerely,

Bob North




Leastwise, that’s what worked with me

 

[MathGirl]

Originally posted by Bob North This guy is in his thirties but writes at a twelve-year-old level. Yet he is blissfully unaware of his complete lack of talent.

Dear BN,
There's a lot of that going around these days.

If you're in the publishing business, it seems that he would understand a rejection coming from you as a professional. Couched in diplomatic terms, of course. I wouldn't recommend telling him what you really think, if you want to keep the friendship.
MG
Ps. I think it's like a good friend buying/selling a used car from his friend. Not much to be gained if everything goes right, and a friendship to lose if not. I don't really think it was fair of him to drop the novel on you in the first place.

 

[Chicklet]

I'm brutal. I say go in with constructive criticism - find one or two things you liked and point those out right away. Then tell him that if he sincerely wants a chance of being published he needs to work on the following (give your list here) If he tries and still doesn't get good enough, just tell him the truth - it's a business and just because he's your friend doesn't mean you can publish him.

Chicklet

 

[KillerMuffin]

There is only one way for you to act, and that's as your ethics demand. You have to tell him the truth. How he takes it is up to him. How you sugarcoat it may help. However, you know as well as I do that if you tell him anything encouraging that's not true, he will use that information wrong.

I would suggest that you tell him something along these lines:

I've been thinking about this for a while. You're my friend and that's what I want you to be. I read your story, but as a friend, I'm not in a position to comment in depth on it because that puts me in a really bad spot. I can tell you it needs work, but if you want a more in depth review, I recommend {insert editing service you'd recommend}. They're good at it.


If he keeps asking for more help, keep telling him that he's putting you between a rock and a hard place. If he can't stop doing that, then he's not the friend you thought he was.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I'd weasel out of it if I were you. I'd tell him that as a friend, I'm unable to be objective to his work. He should talk to an editor, to get an honest opinion.

 

[openthighs_sarah]

Re: Re: When Good Friends Write Bad Stories

I don't really think it was fair of him to drop the novel on you in the first place.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

The real question is what he expects of you. If he genuinely wants your opinion because you're in the industry, I think you should just try to be as honest and as gentle as you can be (given the facts). If you hedge and try to get out of giving your opinion, he sounds bright enough to realize what you're doing, and he'll probably feel even worse because he'll see how uncomfortable you are. And if you try to sugarcoat things too much and talk about the "positives", as KillerMuffin said, you're probably setting him up for an even bigger disappointment -- and more problems for yourself.

The conversation could go something like this (his name is Joe in this conversation, by the way):

BN: The problem, Joe, is that there really isn't a market for stories like yours. And when I say 'stories like yours', I mean: awful ones.

Joe: Thanks for telling me the truth, BN.

See, Joe will appreciate the humorous tone, and you'll both laugh it off and return to your normal male bonding activities. Maybe. Or maybe not...

Good luck.

 

[Bob North]

Thanks for the advice. I suppose I knew all along I would have to own up to having read the story, especially since he won't drop the topic. I think being as vague as possible when talking to him will help, because if I point out something general that's wrong (i.e. punctuation) he's going to protest and want specifics, and gradually I'll become brutal without meaning to be.

As for him putting me in a bad spot, I hadn't even thought of it that way. Whenever I mention I'm in publishing, I get the old "You know, I'M writing a novel..."

 

[gauchecritic]

Here's an idea.

If the story on-line is in a place set up like this one then send him a positive but truthful anonymous feedback and then ask if he's received any feedback.

A long long time ago a writer in residence refused to give me a personal view of a play I'd written for TV. (He didn't like it.) Instead he gave me, what he called, a reviewers review, as though I'd actually sent it out and this is the sort of thing I could expect in return.

He was right. I was hurt. But he was truthful.

Gauche

 

[jfinn]

As for him putting me in a bad spot, I hadn't even thought of it that way. Whenever I mention I'm in publishing, I get the old "You know, I'M writing a novel..."

Hmmm, like the doctor at a cocktail party: "Hey Bill, I have this ache..."

Actually though, I not only think he's putting you in a bad spot, but it also appears he's looking for an easy ride by presuming on your friendship. Being a poor storyteller is one thing, but asking a professional to read something you're too lazy to proof for spelling errors and punctuation is ridiculous. There's nothing creative about that process, it's just tedius and obviously he figures he doesn't have to bother since you're his friend. Not nice.

So my suggestion (though I like KM's and Gauche's a lot too) would be to tell him you started the thing, but frankly couldn't get into it because of all the distracting mechanical errors. Tell him you wouldn't read anything from anybody that hadn't been proofed first. Explain that once he's done that, then you'd be willing to look at the story again.

I know that's the last thing you want to do, but probably he'll never get back to you and if he does maybe he'll have fixed some of the plot problems as well. At any rate, I think he needs to realize you don't ask someone to read a rough draft and expect them to take you seriously.

Oh, and by the way, I have this novel I've written...

Jayne

 

[dr_mabeuse]

We've had this discussion here before, under the guise of what are our obligations to the crappy writer. I seem to be alone in thinking that if he's a hopeless hack, it's kinder to tell him so in the first place then have someone else tell him after he's been hacking away for a couple of months.

This, right now, is all I do. I don't have the time or inclination to fuck around with it. It's your profession. You owe it to him to give him your best professional advice. Your best professional advice. Anything else is patronizing.


---dr.M.

 

[Alex756]

We've had this discussion here before, under the guise of what are our obligations to the crappy writer. I seem to be alone in thinking that if he's a hopeless hack, it's kinder to tell him so in the first place then have someone else tell him after he's been hacking away for a couple of months.

This, right now, is all I do. I don't have the time or inclination to fuck around with it. It's your profession. You owe it to him to give him your best professional advice. Your best professional advice. Anything else is patronizing.


---dr.M.

I couldn't agree with you more.

People that want to get better want to be told whats wrong (I don't believe anyone is hopeless just some people need to concentrate on learning grammar and reading first ebfore they start writing)

If someone just wants to be told how wonderful and brilliant they are, then they aren't interested in getting better and they aren't really a writer in the first place so they shouldn't be wasting anyones time.

However if they honestly want to get better, and will listen to critism, then I think a person who tries can accomplish almost anything.

Alex756

 

[Rainbow Skin]

Perhaps make it sound like you think he's asking for advice on how to get it to a publisher, any publisher, not just you. So tell him, 'See, a publisher wouldn't take that as is, they'd want it a printed copy, double-spaced, spelling-checked, edited for grammar, the whole works, before they looked at it. Well, my company would, and I know all the rest are much the same.'

That temporarily lets you off. You can say you've glanced at it, and seen it's in a state no professional would even look at it.

It's cheating because it half implies it's only the lack of double spacing and so on that's holding it up, but once you've injected the idea of professionalism, then next time you can airily point to a few weaknesses of plot and style and say you need to fix those up too.

A bit of extra friendly help, but not free professional publishing advice.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

"I'm a baker."
-Could you fix a chocolate cream cake for me?

"I'm a tailor."
-Could you make a pin stripe suit for me?

"I'm a gyneocologist."
-Could you fuck me?