When Does Life Begin? An Abortion Issue

[wmrs2]

May it be suggested that neither you or amicus are making asses out of yourselves. Amicus has an excellent point of view and you Mr. Liar have every duty and right to challenge amicus' point of view.

To make any headway on the issue of abortion, we must decide when life begins. Biologically we all know the zygote cell is biologically alive. The religious question must then be settled. Is life a spiritual quality in addition to a biological quality? Do we know for sure whether life is or is not a spiritual quality? To ask this question again we must decide what is a spiritual quality?

To me it is self-evident that a spiritual quality is rationality, something that appears to be unique to human beings. It appears that only human beings are able to say or think that "I think, therefore, I am." Man has this quality of self awareness but when is this spiritual quality aware of itself?

The traditional Jewish and Christian point of view is that man becomes a living soul when God breaths into man the breath of life.
Quote:
Gen:2:7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

This verse does not help very much because it does not tell us when the breath of life enters the body. It is well known that embryos respond to stimuli while in the womb. It is accepted by most religious people that Jesus Christ was alive before birth. What is not answered in these questions is when does a zygote or embryo receive the brith of life? Does a zygote meet the criteria for life by being rational? Does the potential for reasoning satisfy the requirement for life? Personally, we think it does.

Science has determined that without oxygen, human life is not possible. Science has determined there are all types of dysfunctional states in humans that are deprived of oxygen. We think science and faith agree here that life is not possible without oxygen, thus then, are we not forced to conclude that life beings at conception? We are sure that some are able to postulate why this would be a faulty conclusion. We would be interested in hearing how you would reason differently on this matter.
__________________

 

[Recidiva]

It's less an issue of when life begins for me, than when life is viable. And before a baby is viable, the mother is viable.

 

[sr71plt]

Life for me doesn't begin until sometime after 10 am.

 

[Stella_Omega]

We wonder if oxygen deprivation is what happened to this person-- however many of it there is.

But the bible doesn't talk about oxygen, nor does it talk about wiggling in response to stimuli-- worms and amoebae do that too. it talks about breath, breathed into the nostrils. If you are a literalist-- and the many yous seem to be when it suits y'all-- this would mean that life begins at the first breath.

A zygote has no lungs at all. A fetus cannot breath on its own. Until it can, it is not, by this definition, alive. A baby, by this bible definition, is not alive until it takes its first breath, and that can be a few minutes after it emerges from the woman's womb. You could, by this bible definition, cut its throat before you swat it, and not have killed a human soul at all.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I personally don't consider a fetus to be alive until brain activity begins.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Lefe Begins When You Join The Republican Party

'Life' is a process not an event, so its meaningless to talk of beginnings or endings. But if you insist on doing it, the answer is: the opposite of when does life end. Life ends when the heart ceases to function and the brain ceases to function and significant life sustaining processes stop.

 

[BentSecrets]

The question isn't "When does Life begin", because even a single cell is alive, yet we do not confer upon it the respect of rights or even a Right to Live. If we did, every man, woman and child would have to be put in prison each time they scratch an itch or take a shower.

The question is actually, where do Rights come from? The answer is that man has rights based upon and in direct correlation to his capacity for Reason. Reason is man's fundamental tool of survival, it's what elevates him (if indeed he can be called elevated) above animals and plants, and it's the reason it's a crime to kill a man but not a cow nor a head of lettuce.

A fertilized egg has no capacity for Reason, and therefore no rights.

A blastocyst has no capacity for Reason, and therefore no rights.

A Zygote has no capacity for Reason, and therefore no rights.

A fetus has no capacity for Reason, and therefore no rights.

The earliest *possible* stage at which one could be reasonably be asserted to have rights would be after the 12th week of pregnancy when brain activity actually begins.

Cells don't have rights. Individuals do.

 

[cloudy]

I don't know why any of you bother with this person.

 

[Recidiva]

I don't know why any of you bother with this person.

And you are...?

 

[cloudy]

And you are...?

. .

 

[Recidiva]

. .

*tickle*

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I don't know why any of you bother with this person.

I gave my one serious answer right off the bat. I wasn't planning on giving any others

 

[microbleu]

What about women who got pregnant from a rape ?
Can the baby have a life with a traumatized mother ?

 

[TheeGoatPig]

What about women who got pregnant from a rape ?
Can the baby have a life with a traumatized mother ?

The vocalist of Fear Factory was the child of a rape. He wrote a song about it.

Replica Lyrics

There is no love
No love

I am a duplication
Innocently
I was conceived
So violently
There was no love
There was no love for me
There was only hatred

I am rape
I am hate
I am rape
I am hate

Every day I feel anonymous hate
Forever in the shadow of disgrace

I am rape
I am hate
I am rape
I am hate

I am so
Filled with pain
A bruised and darkened soul
Spare me from the
Life that's full of misery
I don't want to live that way
I don't want to live that way

There is no love

Every day I feel anonymous hate
Forever in the shadow of disgrace

I am rape
I am hate
I am rape
I am hate

I am so
Filled with pain
A bruised and darkened soul
Spare me from the
Life that's full of misery

I am so
Filled with pain
A bruised and darkened soul
Spare me from the
Life that's full of misery
I don't want to live that way
I don't want to live that way...

I am so
Filled with pain
A bruised and darkened soul
Spare me from the
Life that's full of misery

Spare me from the
Life that's full of pain
Spare me from the
Life that's full of pain
I don't want to live that way
I don't want to live that way...

 

[Liar]

I saw a greeting card yesterday that stated in no uncertain terms that life begins at 40.

I'm sure some members of this board could love to abort me before it's too late.

 

[sr71plt]

I saw a greeting card yesterday that stated in no uncertain terms that life begins at 40.

I'm sure some members of this board could love to abort me before it's too late.

As I noted on another thread, being a parent, I've always considered "viability" to start when they go out and start earning a paycheck.

 

[cloudy]

As I noted on another thread, being a parent, I've always considered "viability" to start when they go out and start earning a paycheck.

Amen.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

I saw a greeting card yesterday that stated in no uncertain terms that life begins at 40.

*snerk*
Thank God, all my waiting hasn't been in vain.

 

[impressive]

Life never ends. It just moves around.

 

[Liar]

Life never ends. It just moves around.

*ding* We have a winner.

 

[amicus]

Troll tactic #13b, attempt to kill a thread expressing views you do not like by choking the page with trivialities and excoriate the thread starter in an attempt to stifle discussion.

You folks are, oh, so transparent, the Emperor truly has his, ahm, what was it RABD?, hanging out.

Interesting though, in the few who did offer an answer as to when life begins, you all have different answers. Say anything to you does it?

Amicus...

 

[Recidiva]

Troll tactic #13b, attempt to kill a thread expressing views you do not like by choking the page with trivialities and excoriate the thread starter in an attempt to stifle discussion.

You folks are, oh, so transparent, the Emperor truly has his, ahm, what was it RABD?, hanging out.

Interesting though, in the few who did offer an answer as to when life begins, you all have different answers. Say anything to you does it?

Amicus...

*makes bunny ears behind Amicus's head*

 

[cloudy]

*makes bunny ears behind Amicus's head*

Don't forget to cross your eyes, and stick out your tongue.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Troll tactic #13b, attempt to kill a thread expressing views you do not like by choking the page with trivialities and excoriate the thread starter in an attempt to stifle discussion.

Troll tactic #1, starting a topic with the sole intent of igniting hostile responses.

By the way, wmrs2 fits your example to a T with "her" first reply to the Atheist topic.

And you fit your own example just as well with your post that points it out. It does absolutely nothing to help the topic being discussed.

And there are differences of opinion as to when "life" begins because it has never been properly scientifically defined. there have been many scientific definitions of life over the years, but no consensus has ever really been reaches as to when it begins. Until that happens, there will be a gray area the size of Montana.

 

[Recidiva]

Don't forget to cross your eyes, and stick out your tongue.

Being accused of immaturity makes me want to act out.

It's fun.

We could tape a "Kick Me" sign to the back of his shirt.

I resent the implication that I'm taking anybody seriously. Especially Amicus. It implies I care what he thinks.

I'm not sure I care what I think, much less random peoples off the interwebz.