When does it become bullying?

[bailadora]

This is going to be bit long, but there's a lot of relevant information to relate, so please bear with me.

Last year, my eldest daughter was friends with a girl who blew hot and cold all year long. The state of their friendship depended on the day to day mood of the other kid and things finally came to a head towards the end of last year. There was some sort of disagreement, words were exchanged, and my daughter ended up spending most of the afternoon crying in the bathroom - on what should have been a pretty happy day (end of the year celebration). She and I talked about the incident that night and pretty much agreed that this other kid was probably not good friend material and that it was time to move on. The two girls spent the rest of the year (a whole 4 days) ignoring each other and every thing seemed fine.

Fast forward to this year, and the other kid is back. She claims she and her posse want to be friends with eldest daughter again, but the sly, taunting innuendos have started already. There are a few things in our favor this year, that weren't in play last year:

1. They only have one class together, as opposed to having to be in the same room all day long.

2. My daughter is no longer the new kid in town.

3. Since it's middle school, there's a lot larger pool of kids to meet and possibly become friends with (which she's already doing).

My big concern though - is that my daughter says this other kid just won't leave her alone. Keeps trying to talk to her, etc despite my daughter's best efforts to just ignore her. The logical side of me says that I need to keep quiet and let my daughter work this out on her own. After all, I'm not always going to be there and she's going to have to learn to fight some battles on her own. The emotional side of me says this other kid is looking for a whipping girl and is intent on targeting my daughter.

I have a cell number for the other girl's mother and I'm very tempted to call her and request that she ask her kid to leave my kid alone. I'd be very careful to keep it non-confrontational and accusation free, but pass it off as two personalities not meshing as well as initially thought. And just suggesting the girls go their separate ways. I'm pretty sure the other parent doesn't have a clue as to what happened last year, because she was very friendly towards me at the graduation ceremony.

Ack! What's a parent to do? When does normal middle school shenanigans cross the line into bullying? I don't want to be one of those over reactive parents. At the same time, I don't wanna leave my kid hanging if she truly needs our assistance on this.

 

[fire_breeze]

This is going to be bit long, but there's a lot of relevant information to relate, so please bear with me.

Last year, my eldest daughter was friends with a girl who blew hot and cold all year long. The state of their friendship depended on the day to day mood of the other kid and things finally came to a head towards the end of last year. There was some sort of disagreement, words were exchanged, and my daughter ended up spending most of the afternoon crying in the bathroom - on what should have been a pretty happy day (end of the year celebration). She and I talked about the incident that night and pretty much agreed that this other kid was probably not good friend material and that it was time to move on. The two girls spent the rest of the year (a whole 4 days) ignoring each other and every thing seemed fine.

Fast forward to this year, and the other kid is back. She claims she and her posse want to be friends with eldest daughter again, but the sly, taunting innuendos have started already. There are a few things in our favor this year, that weren't in play last year:

1. They only have one class together, as opposed to having to be in the same room all day long.

2. My daughter is no longer the new kid in town.

3. Since it's middle school, there's a lot larger pool of kids to meet and possibly become friends with (which she's already doing).

My big concern though - is that my daughter says this other kid just won't leave her alone. Keeps trying to talk to her, etc despite my daughter's best efforts to just ignore her. The logical side of me says that I need to keep quiet and let my daughter work this out on her own. After all, I'm not always going to be there and she's going to have to learn to fight some battles on her own. The emotional side of me says this other kid is looking for a whipping girl and is intent on targeting my daughter.

I have a cell number for the other girl's mother and I'm very tempted to call her and request that she ask her kid to leave my kid alone. I'd be very careful to keep it non-confrontational and accusation free, but pass it off as two personalities not meshing as well as initially thought. And just suggesting the girls go their separate ways. I'm pretty sure the other parent doesn't have a clue as to what happened last year, because she was very friendly towards me at the graduation ceremony.

Ack! What's a parent to do? When does normal middle school shenanigans cross the line into bullying? I don't want to be one of those over reactive parents. At the same time, I don't wanna leave my kid hanging if she truly needs our assistance on this.

Ugh. I'm so sorry that this has had to happen to your daughter - and I can totally and completely relate. Teens, and particularly girls, can be cruel and absolutely vicious.

While it's great that you have the other girl's cell phone number, do not call her unless it's absolutely necessary. Why? Because even if mum doesn't say who the person was who complained, the girl will figure out and can make your daughter's life even more miserable. In other words, it may stop the harassment, but it may make it even worst, with the likelihood of the latter. Not fun.

Does Bailadorette has a group of friends at school - a good group who supports her? I suggest that you suggest to her that she rallies these chicklets around her. It's less difficult to harass someone who is in a group. Furthermore, they will help her through it and protect her. If your daughter politely ignores this girl, and starts making good friends, the other girl will probably leave them all.

Take your daughter's complaints seriously and also ask her what is it that she would like you to do. If she thinks that the girl is just annoying, leave it be. If your daughter is getting hurt - emotionally or otherwise - then it's bullying, and you may have to go and talk with the principal. It's a slippery slope and one that is difficult to navigate. But if the girl is making threats, then it's time to take immediate actions - because that is creating an unsafe environment.

Also talk with your daughter often, and ask her about it. If she says 'everything is fine', probe deeper. She's entering teenage years, and sometimes teenagers will talk to their parents, sometimes they won't. If she won't talk to you, do you have a younger friend (though older than her) that she can confide in, a surrogate cool young auntie or a much older sister? The reason why I'm bringing this up is that bullied people are often ashamed about what's happening, but they may be more than willing to talk to a non-close family member or family friend.

I was a loner in high school (no middle/junior high in la bell province), and I was taunted quite a bit. Finally I had enough, and just said pretty loudly that it's a shame that they they have nothing better to do than pick on someone who doesn't give a flying rat's ass, but if I can provide them entertainment, then hey, I'll be more than happy to. Because I didn't search them out, because it happened while I was walking past this group, and because it was a retort in front of everybody (including the very popular DJ, who then gave me a high five), they left me alone. It worked for me, and I had the advantage of being a head taller and a good 25 pounds heavier than them. It may not work with Bailadorette, but an intelligent, witty comeback is always good arsenal (and none of that 'sticks and stones' bullshit, please!)

I don't know how much this helped, but the important thing is that yes, you cannot fight your daughter's battles. However, it doesn't mean that you cannot be in her troop as she does so. You can help her with being there, being the parent and giving her the support and guidance that she needs. Above all, listen.

And even though she will not believe it, this crap does end in university, thank whatever gods you want to, and that girl will probably end up as a nobody.

 

[culloden]

I am sorry to hear about this. I was pretty much an outcast throughout middle school (the fat kid who read all the time - remember him?). It's not easy, but what got me through it was having a core of friends - Really, two or three. The best strategy I found was ignoring kids, but that wasn't always easy to do. For years afterward, I had a hard time trusting people because I'd been suckered into false friendships and then betrayed too many times. I didn't make friends easily even into college. Long term, I think that experience made me a much more empathetic person, but I digress.

I don't know what to advise. If my parents had contacted the other kids' parents, I'd have been mortified. I don't know if that would have helped or made the abuse worse. Tough situation.

Now, my experience is from 40 years ago. School personnel are much more in tune to this sort of thing today. Perhaps a starting point would be the guidance department? You wouldn't even need to name names, just ask to discuss effective strategies for your daughter to use.

 

[Weird Harold]

Ack! What's a parent to do? When does normal middle school shenanigans cross the line into bullying? I don't want to be one of those over reactive parents. At the same time, I don't wanna leave my kid hanging if she truly needs our assistance on this.

The line in middle-school is the same as the line between you and another adult: when things move to the physical or to threats of violence and/or bodily harm. Or any other behavior you would consider "over the line" and legally actionable. At that point, call the cops and file a complaint.

Having the (city) police show up in the classroom and take the bully away in handcuffs -- and then showing up in court, ready to to testify -- solved my younger daughter's problem with bullies and gang members. (we filed an assault charge with the city police, not the school district police -- the school district police weren't interested in formal charges for a first attack. )

 

[culloden]

The line in middle-school is the same as the line between you and another adult: when things move to the physical or to threats of violence and/or bodily harm. Or any other behavior you would consider "over the line" and legally actionable. At that point, call the cops and file a complaint.

Having the (city) police show up in the classroom and take the bully away in handcuffs -- and then showing up in court, ready to to testify -- solved my younger daughter's problem with bullies and gang members. (we filed an assault charge with the city police, not the school district police -- the school district police weren't interested in formal charges for a first attack. )

Certainly, if it's physical, action needs to be taken. But most middle school bullying is social, which can ultimately be as damaging.

 

[ima6uldv8]

I'm not a parent but I would not do anything right now. Wait and see how it progresses. I can understand its difficult to do nothing. As she makes more friends, maybe there will be one she can buddy with. Sorry she's having to go through this. School can be a real soap opera at times. Just keep being the good mom you are to her. I hope it works out.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

Fast forward to this year, and the other kid is back. She claims she and her posse want to be friends with eldest daughter again, but the sly, taunting innuendos have started already.

My suggestion is first, to be there for your daughter. Ask if there is anything she would like you to do. Quite probably the answer is "no" but at least you are being supportive.

Second, encourage your daughter to stick with her new friends and don't engage with people who are not treating her with respect. Responding is effectively like responding to forum trolls, it encourages them.

Certainly don't let her put herself into their power, like accepting a sleep-over, or a birthday party, where walking away would be very difficult.

She doesn't have to prove herself to them. Trying to "be liked" can be an impossible goal, with some people.

She can just politely decline invitations, without escalating by giving an explanation which can then be "proved wrong".


"Like to have lunch with me?"
"No, thank you."

"Come to my sleep-over?"
"No, thank you."

"Come to my birthday party?"
"No, thank you."

No explanations are necessary. If she is in the company of other friends when this happens she has witnesses if these other girls try to escalate the confrontation by calling her nasty names.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

One thing that can be effective is to be the "strict parent".

For example, sometimes we have had telephone calls from our daughter, pleading to be allowed to go to a friend's house after school. We can hear their voices in the background.

We say "no, come home."

We hear her tell her "friends" : "Mum won't let me".

Then when she gets home she says "thank goodness you wouldn't let me go, they were pressuring me and I couldn't say no".

You see? You give her an out. Of course she has to learn to stand up for herself eventually, but this sort of thing can help when she is under pressure from a group.

There is a technique you can use here too. Decide on a "code word", like a "safe word". It can be anything you might use in conversation, but it has a hidden message. As an example, it might be "feed the fish".

So the conversation goes like this:

Daughter rings on her mobile. "Mum, can I stay at my friend's house for another three hours? They want to watch a movie together. You'll need to feed the fish for me."

You hear "feed the fish". So you reply:

"No, young lady, you have to come home right now. Tell your friends your uncle is coming over for dinner and wants to see you."

If you don't hear the "safe word" you can assume that it is a genuine request, not a "get me outta here" request.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I don't have kids, so take this for what it's worth.

But don't call the mom. Not yet. I think the fallout from that would be worse. I don't know how to handle the whole situation. But I think I would wait on the phone call.

 

[Weird Harold]

Certainly, if it's physical, action needs to be taken. But most middle school bullying is social, which can ultimately be as damaging.

The line is the same for non-physical bullying -- if you'd set the law on an adult, just being in middle-school doesn't get someone a free pass for the same actions.

If you wouldn't set the law on an adult, then the daughter needs to learn how to cope with unpleasant people -- such as she will meet over and over again throughout her working life. Again, just being in middle-school doesn't raise the bar above where it would be for an adult, anymore than it lowers the bar; the bar is the same for all.

 

[procndest]

I think the other girl is just a bully, and she's looking to make your daughter a target for her and her friends to abuse. What she's doing now is probing for weakness, trying to get your daughter to react. She knows she upset your daughter last year, and that's why she won't let go. The be-friends ploy is just that, a ploy to get your daughter's guard down.

I think "no thanks" idea suggested is good. When the girl figures out nothing she does can get her anywhere, she'll get bored and get lost. If it gets physical, I agree with the law enforcement suggestion.

In my opinion, an important thing for a parent to do is listen and take your daughter's emotional pain seriously. Let her know this girl is a sick loser, and to keep you informed. Make sure your daughter knows she's not alone in this. Let your daughter know this is a battle of emotional vulnerability, of resistance to this girl's attempts to hurt and irritate, and that she has to fight and win.

I wouldn't call the mom. She produced this little monster, and even if she cares the girl will just lie about it and do everything she can to make it look like your daughter is oversensitive.

 

[GrrlFriday]

If this girl is gearing up for round two, as you suggest, 'no, thank you' seems like a good option. I'm really not sure that phoning the other mother would help things - what do you think she will tell her daughter? It may only encourage this girl, as she may go 'But you've got me all wrong!!!', but know that her tactics are hitting a mark. I think there is still variation in school departments as to how well they deal with 'situations', as there is still the view in schools too that 'there will be unpleasant people in life, your daughter needs to learn to deal on her own'. Keep the lines of communication open with your daughter, and make sure that she feels she can bring her good friends home to visit. How often is this girl talking to her?

You could also urge your daughter to pursue her own interests while at school and make better friends - keep herself busy and pursue her own dreams. That your daughter lives a good life is so much more important than what this girl says. If your daughter can try to reduce contact with this girl, dusting her off her shoes, water off a duck's back, as it will. Be polite but disinterested, non-committal, and boring to this girl. The trouble is, this approach takes the patience of a saint. It will get easier once they hit about 17 or so and teachers start to put the frighteners on them about choosing a career, final exams, etc.

I wish I could be of more help. Take courage, and encourage your daughter to live her life.

 

[culloden]

The line is the same for non-physical bullying -- if you'd set the law on an adult, just being in middle-school doesn't get someone a free pass for the same actions.

If you wouldn't set the law on an adult, then the daughter needs to learn how to cope with unpleasant people -- such as she will meet over and over again throughout her working life. Again, just being in middle-school doesn't raise the bar above where it would be for an adult, anymore than it lowers the bar; the bar is the same for all.

In general I agree. We don't do kids a favor by rescuing them from every situation. That said, this isn't something that's to be dismissed. I spent a decade as a youth leader, and I've seen a lot of kids go through this sort of thing.

I do think the solution is for Bailadora's daughter to find other friends. It helps kids to have their own posse. It can also be helpful to latch on to a favorite teacher or other adult mentor. What kids need when they're going through this sort of thing is validation that they're really okay, that they're not somehow deserving of the abuse they're getting. Parents can provide only so much of that because, well, they're your parents and what do they know? That's why peers who are friends or other adults who make the kid feel good are so important.

I would liken it to a battery - Kids can handle bullying until their reserve of self-esteem runs out. Some kids have bigger reserves than others, and the size of the reservoir should increase with time and positive experience. Friends and mentors, and to a lesser extent, positive experiences that stretch and grow the kid's abilities, are what charge the battery.

 

[bailadora]

I've limited time this morning, but I wanted to let ya'll know I'm following the thread closely. There's been some wonderful suggestions already (the code word is BRILLIANT). Many thanks.

The line is the same for non-physical bullying -- if you'd set the law on an adult, just being in middle-school doesn't get someone a free pass for the same actions.

If you wouldn't set the law on an adult, then the daughter needs to learn how to cope with unpleasant people -- such as she will meet over and over again throughout her working life. Again, just being in middle-school doesn't raise the bar above where it would be for an adult, anymore than it lowers the bar; the bar is the same for all.

I can see what you're saying, but after the suicides of Phoebe Prince, Asher Brown, , and Jamey Rodemeyer, verbal taunting has received significantly closer scrutiny.

Yes, we all need to learn how to deal with unpleasant people, but at the same time, kids at this age don't always have the coping skills they need to fight these battles. And given all these teen/tween suicides, many school systems are taking a two pronged approach when it comes to dealing with bullying: support of the bullied and education/counseling (school or otherwise) for the bullies. This is our first experience with prolonged problems, so we'll see how it all shakes out.

 

[lothwen]

This is going to be bit long, but there's a lot of relevant information to relate, so please bear with me.

Last year, my eldest daughter was friends with a girl who blew hot and cold all year long. The state of their friendship depended on the day to day mood of the other kid and things finally came to a head towards the end of last year. There was some sort of disagreement, words were exchanged, and my daughter ended up spending most of the afternoon crying in the bathroom - on what should have been a pretty happy day (end of the year celebration). She and I talked about the incident that night and pretty much agreed that this other kid was probably not good friend material and that it was time to move on. The two girls spent the rest of the year (a whole 4 days) ignoring each other and every thing seemed fine.

Fast forward to this year, and the other kid is back. She claims she and her posse want to be friends with eldest daughter again, but the sly, taunting innuendos have started already. There are a few things in our favor this year, that weren't in play last year:

1. They only have one class together, as opposed to having to be in the same room all day long.

2. My daughter is no longer the new kid in town.

3. Since it's middle school, there's a lot larger pool of kids to meet and possibly become friends with (which she's already doing).

My big concern though - is that my daughter says this other kid just won't leave her alone. Keeps trying to talk to her, etc despite my daughter's best efforts to just ignore her. The logical side of me says that I need to keep quiet and let my daughter work this out on her own. After all, I'm not always going to be there and she's going to have to learn to fight some battles on her own. The emotional side of me says this other kid is looking for a whipping girl and is intent on targeting my daughter.

I have a cell number for the other girl's mother and I'm very tempted to call her and request that she ask her kid to leave my kid alone. I'd be very careful to keep it non-confrontational and accusation free, but pass it off as two personalities not meshing as well as initially thought. And just suggesting the girls go their separate ways. I'm pretty sure the other parent doesn't have a clue as to what happened last year, because she was very friendly towards me at the graduation ceremony.

Ack! What's a parent to do? When does normal middle school shenanigans cross the line into bullying? I don't want to be one of those over reactive parents. At the same time, I don't wanna leave my kid hanging if she truly needs our assistance on this.

My cousin went through something when she was in the 8th grade-she was friends with a girl who got very jealous when my cousin wanted to spend time with her other friends, and so this girl started spreading lies about my cousin to her friends, and pretty soon my cousin couldn't walk the halls of her school without somebody saying something nasty to her. In addition, this girl got her older brother and his friends involved as well. My cousin was bullied online, and they got phone calls from anonomous callers threatening them (I happened to be over one night and heard one of the calls.)

I hope that you and your daughter have the type of relationship where she feels she can tell you if she's having problems at school. I'd say to get her involved in other activities, but if her grades begin to be affected by this, and if the school won't do anything, then maybe you could enroll her in a different school.

 

[blulilacgrl]

Can I just say 2 things here?

#1. You know why this girl wants to be friends with your daughter right? It's because your daughter doesn't want to be friends with her. Popular kids (especially in MS/HS) can never fathom someone NOT wanting to be their friend. So it confounds them. Think of being denied something. See my point?

And #2 If your daughter is having trouble being alone (and you haven't said this but just in case) Here are my two cents for what they're worth.

At the start of middle school I was plunked down in a new school. And after spending most of my life as a military brat, suddenly I was in the civilian world. Now is the time for your daughter to practice some strategic planning. lol

The truth is, and I know everyone feels like they are the only ones being picked on but the truth is, she is not alone. There are ALWAYS other kids being picked on or sidelined or left out. Might I suggest she do what I did. Take a moment and look at the other students objectively. What my father called reconnoitering. (God don't you love the idea of military terminology for middle school?).

I always looked for those other kids that were like me and then went after them. I would introduce myself, invite them to sit with me, etc... And I didn't limit myself to just one. After a while I had a whole group of "outcasts". And isn't it funny how after a while none of us got picked on? Why not? Because it's pretty damn hard to pick on one person who is in a group of 5-10. Especially when those 5-10 know the pain of being picked on and won't stand for it.

And the real upshot, your daughter will end up with a very diverse group of friends. In my group we had-- band geeks, theatre geeks, heavy metal/punk rock people, preps, 2 lone jock & cheerleader "outcasts". The main thing we all had in common? We didn't fit in with the others, so we formed our own group and we were fiercely protective of each other. And we were always on the look out for anyone who needed our help and would quickly absorb them into "the group".

Again just my thoughts. I apologize if I have misunderstood the question.

 

[culloden]

Can I just say 2 things here?

#1. You know why this girl wants to be friends with your daughter right? It's because your daughter doesn't want to be friends with her. Popular kids (especially in MS/HS) can never fathom someone NOT wanting to be their friend. So it confounds them. Think of being denied something. See my point?

And #2 If your daughter is having trouble being alone (and you haven't said this but just in case) Here are my two cents for what they're worth.

At the start of middle school I was plunked down in a new school. And after spending most of my life as a military brat, suddenly I was in the civilian world. Now is the time for your daughter to practice some strategic planning. lol

The truth is, and I know everyone feels like they are the only ones being picked on but the truth is, she is not alone. There are ALWAYS other kids being picked on or sidelined or left out. Might I suggest she do what I did. Take a moment and look at the other students objectively. What my father called reconnoitering. (God don't you love the idea of military terminology for middle school?).

I always looked for those other kids that were like me and then went after them. I would introduce myself, invite them to sit with me, etc... And I didn't limit myself to just one. After a while I had a whole group of "outcasts". And isn't it funny how after a while none of us got picked on? Why not? Because it's pretty damn hard to pick on one person who is in a group of 5-10. Especially when those 5-10 know the pain of being picked on and won't stand for it.

And the real upshot, your daughter will end up with a very diverse group of friends. In my group we had-- band geeks, theatre geeks, heavy metal/punk rock people, preps, 2 lone jock & cheerleader "outcasts". The main thing we all had in common? We didn't fit in with the others, so we formed our own group and we were fiercely protective of each other. And we were always on the look out for anyone who needed our help and would quickly absorb them into "the group".

Again just my thoughts. I apologize if I have misunderstood the question.

Nice! In retrospect, that was the big change for me when I went to HS - The assholes were still there, but so were a lot more geeks like me. Great advice.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

I've limited time this morning, but I wanted to let ya'll know I'm following the thread closely. There's been some wonderful suggestions already (the code word is BRILLIANT). Many thanks.

You're welcome. I should point out that the code word can be used in other situations, too. Like if she is at someone's house and they (or their brothers) are watching porn, and she feels uncomfortable. Or, they are planning to drive somewhere (this is for later years) and everyone has been drinking.

A phone call (made in front of the group) with a "hidden message" can be useful. It can mean "please get in your car, drive over here, and get me out!"

Of course, you can invent a face-saving reason for your presence, like she is urgently needed because some family member became ill or something.

Hopefully you don't have to use this every week, but the mere presence of such a system gives your daughter confidence that she isn't alone, and also shows that you care for her. Plus, by giving her the power (she chooses whether or not to use it) it is empowering her to take charge of her own situation.

 

[Thefamiliar]

The safe word works, though I didnt have to have a word, my daughter would call and tell me the plan, then just start saying "do I have to?" Before I could even say ok or no...i would here her tirade then say I will be right there.

It gives them the ability to make an exit, and the confidence to say no, later after they have been in that situation.

I have always been a firm believer in giving my girls the ability to handle situations. I signed them up for tae kwon do, a definite ability booster, and encouraged them to speak their minds, yet not be hatefull. I taught them how to give backhanded compliments right back, yet to assess a persons intent or motivation to the actions.

Both of my girls are champions to the underdogs so to speak. Though the strength of character came along with many tears and suspensions...well for the youngest, she got loud and fought back, while the bullies got told to just leave her alone. I never punnished for self defense.

My oldest was firmly grabbed by a senior boy her freshman year, she put those classes to use and in front of everyond used a technique to give her the upper hand, calmly looked him in the dye and said "dont you ever touch me again"...she admits to being scared out of her mind, but it spread fast she could hold her own.

Its really the difference between being the sheep and the leader. I am proud to hear the stories of how they will step between a bully male or female and force them to stand down from their prey. Its scarey but in the real world there isnt always help within earshot.

My best advice is to teach her to pretend it doesnt bother her, to laugh at the absured comments, and cry at home. To have the conversations about what is true, and what she knows about herself.

My youngest by far has had the worst of it, the mids are relentless, and she has hit back enough to make the kids think twice about physically harming her. I am glad she is bigger than most her age. But both my girls have become rather blunt when telling someone why they dont wish to be friends. Calling it like they see it. I dont want to be your friend because you are not a nice person, I cant trust you, or other such things seems to leave the bully with nothing to say, and sets an example for the followers. It seems some followers actually find their character if someone else just reaks the "rule" first.

Find your daughters strengths and get her to use them.

My girls will say, adults dont sway a bully, kindness or ignoring them wont stop them. Sometimes all you can do is meet them head on. You may want to make the teachers and principals aware there is friction, if anything does come to head miss bully wont get viewed as completely innocent. But from experience if they kiss up to the teachers it wont help any.

My oldest actually even did go to the police herself when she was getting threatening phone calls. That situation fizzled fast when the girls were contacted by the police.

I cant protect my girls from the world, only teach them how to protect themselves. But its a fine line, because its easy to percieve a threat where there is none, and it could turn the tables quickly if not kept in check.

 

[Somehowyou]

Your inclination is correct. Stay out of it and let her grow up.

In my district you can even call the shcool and explain to the principle and the principle will likely call the parents. I would save this as a last resort. I fear your daughter is likely to suffer more if you intervene.

 

[bailadora]

Update:

My daughter is forming friendships with two girls who ride her bus, one of whom is in the same class with my daughter and this other girl. They try to sit together in class, and for the most part, are able to. The friend from the bus is also aware of what went down last year.

Since the bus friend gets to class before my daughter, the plan is to ask her to try to locate seats as far away as possible from the problem child. If that's not possible, the plan is to either ignore the problem child in total or if that's not feasible, to respond with something along the lines of Sun's "No, thank you" recommendation.

My daughter did tell me this weekend that some of the problem child's posse is actually acting very friendly towards her. I told her to reciprocate in kind and to be friendly in return. However, to also be careful, because they might be fishing for information. I recommended that if the subject of she and the problem child came up, she was simply to say, "She and I just don't get along" and leave it at that.

So, we'll see what happens from here. The good news is that meet the teacher night is in a few weeks and I think I'm going to give him a heads up and just ask him to keep an eye on things.

 

[Ellafun]

Lots of great advice and ideas in this thread. My daughter is a junior this year, and one of the hardest things to do, as a parent, is to have to watch your child hurting. Kudos to you for letting her do her best to work through this with you cheerleading from the sidelines!

 

[Recidiva]

My son has Asperger's syndrome and it's been very challenging to give him social advice.

I give him a few guidelines:

1. If at all possible, avoid confrontation, be pleasant and kind, although noncommital with people who are suspicious in their intent. Don't hand them personal information, they'll only use it as ammunition.

2. There's no need to be rude, but there's also no need to give some people's words more value than the sound of the wind blowing. It might get loud, but if you hold your place, it can't do much more.

3. Ignore words, draw the real line when someone puts their hands on you. Conversely, don't put your hands on someone else.

4. Bullying is going to be there throughout your life and the sooner you learn to cope and not let it push you off center or off course, the better. You don't need to play nice with everyone if they're not playing nice with you, but don't go negative.

I bet your daughter's going to be just fine. My son's done well, even though the beginning of last school year was awful and he was wanting to be home schooled.

He found a hobby, writing stories, and people started asking for copies. He came home yesterday and said that one of the guys that had previously tried to bully him (my son's huge, that doesn't really work other than verbal) came up to him and said he was sorry and that his stories were really cool.

So I'd say just don't give it that much importance in your life, focus on other things, and that's the best thing that will serve you in a lifetime. Otherwise you grant a bully too much power and that's exactly what they want.

If you show confidence and aren't overly frightened about it, it also helps give your daughter confidence that she can overcome it and that the solutions aren't tentative and aren't reliant on anybody else but her making a decision on how to cope. With that in mind, I probably wouldn't involve the teacher and let your daughter take the full win on coming up with a way to deal with it herself. If she needs social support though, definitely give it.

 

[culloden]

Sounds like you and your daughter have a good plan in place. It's great to get her problem solving like this - It's a useful life skill too many people lack.

 

[stronger_than_U]

This is going to be bit long, but there's a lot of relevant information to relate, so please bear with me.

Last year, my eldest daughter was friends with a girl who blew hot and cold all year long. The state of their friendship depended on the day to day mood of the other kid and things finally came to a head towards the end of last year. There was some sort of disagreement, words were exchanged, and my daughter ended up spending most of the afternoon crying in the bathroom - on what should have been a pretty happy day (end of the year celebration). She and I talked about the incident that night and pretty much agreed that this other kid was probably not good friend material and that it was time to move on. The two girls spent the rest of the year (a whole 4 days) ignoring each other and every thing seemed fine.

Fast forward to this year, and the other kid is back. She claims she and her posse want to be friends with eldest daughter again, but the sly, taunting innuendos have started already. There are a few things in our favor this year, that weren't in play last year:

1. They only have one class together, as opposed to having to be in the same room all day long.

2. My daughter is no longer the new kid in town.

3. Since it's middle school, there's a lot larger pool of kids to meet and possibly become friends with (which she's already doing).

My big concern though - is that my daughter says this other kid just won't leave her alone. Keeps trying to talk to her, etc despite my daughter's best efforts to just ignore her. The logical side of me says that I need to keep quiet and let my daughter work this out on her own. After all, I'm not always going to be there and she's going to have to learn to fight some battles on her own. The emotional side of me says this other kid is looking for a whipping girl and is intent on targeting my daughter.

I have a cell number for the other girl's mother and I'm very tempted to call her and request that she ask her kid to leave my kid alone. I'd be very careful to keep it non-confrontational and accusation free, but pass it off as two personalities not meshing as well as initially thought. And just suggesting the girls go their separate ways. I'm pretty sure the other parent doesn't have a clue as to what happened last year, because she was very friendly towards me at the graduation ceremony.

Ack! What's a parent to do? When does normal middle school shenanigans cross the line into bullying? I don't want to be one of those over reactive parents. At the same time, I don't wanna leave my kid hanging if she truly needs our assistance on this.

I've limited time this morning, but I wanted to let ya'll know I'm following the thread closely. There's been some wonderful suggestions already (the code word is BRILLIANT). Many thanks.



I can see what you're saying, but after the suicides of Phoebe Prince, Asher Brown, , and Jamey Rodemeyer, verbal taunting has received significantly closer scrutiny.

Yes, we all need to learn how to deal with unpleasant people, but at the same time, kids at this age don't always have the coping skills they need to fight these battles. And given all these teen/tween suicides, many school systems are taking a two pronged approach when it comes to dealing with bullying: support of the bullied and education/counseling (school or otherwise) for the bullies. This is our first experience with prolonged problems, so we'll see how it all shakes out.

Sounds like you and your daughter have a good plan in place. It's great to get her problem solving like this - It's a useful life skill too many people lack.

Sorry to jump in uninvited but this is so near and dear to my heart. I have 3 daughters and junior high/middle school were torture to all. Actually, I think that is why the bullies bully.

My advice - find time as often as possible to just be together - she will tell you what is going on going forward in HS if you set it up now. My girls still love t come lie down on my bed even now that they are in college.

Do not call any other parent no matter how much you want to scream at them..... she will not forgive that.

Encourage her to have kids over to your house. When they are in your home you can size them up and you will be able to figure out who is trustworthy.

Support her choices even when you dissagree - - if you let her know subtly that you don't agree, she will figure out what to do and your influence will be VERY apparent.


Good Luck and keep your cool and you will do great.