When does a story become Historical Fiction?

[whowrotethisshit]

I'm writing a story set in the smoky mountains in the 1940s. It wasn't until I went to tag the story, that I realized when I think of "historical" fiction, I think Victorian. Thanks, BBC. The, um, the news organization and putter outter of some pretty great movies. Not the other BBC.

Anyhow, I was trying to figure out how to tag the story and realized I don't consider 1940s historical fiction. Even though it's 2019 and I was born in 1993. I mean, my grandma was born fourteen years before this story starts. Not my great grandma, my grandma. May she rest in peace, wherever she is, so help me G-d I hope it's nowhere she can read my stories.

Yourdictionary.com says "Historical fiction is defined as movies and novels in which a story is made up but is set in the past and sometimes borrows true characteristics of the time period in which it is set."

and,

"A book, poem, movie, or video game based on real historical events, but in which the characters are not real, and the minor events may not be realistic."

That clears some things up for me but, it makes me curious. With every decade, genres seem to count for less or get mushier or maybe they don't. I don't know. I was born in 1993.

What do you think historical fiction is?

 

[oggbashan]

It can be any time before the present but I would think anything set since the year 2000 isn't yet historical.

A rough rule of thumb for me would be - if it happens before a current 18-year-old was born, it is 'historical'. Any story set that far or further back would have to explain the setting and the era.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Genres may - or may not - be getting mushier, but I think the two definitions you provided are pretty solid.

I don’t consider the 1940s historical fiction.

Well, consider the enormously popular author W.E.B. Griffin. One of his series, The Corps, is set in WW2 and the Korean War. The series takes place in the USA and across the Pacific. The fictional protagonists run into very real figures like Franklin Roosevelt, Douglas McArthur, Eric Feldt, Frank Knox and Harry Truman. It’s certainly historical fiction.

 

[Handley_Page]

It can be any time before the present but I would think anything set since the year 2000 isn't yet historical.

A rough rule of thumb for me would be - if it happens before a current 18-year-old was born, it is 'historical'. Any story set that far or further back would have to explain the setting and the era.

I think I'd separate it by "Generations".
From my own PoV, I'd say three or four.
Anything more recent than the Titanic disaster, or WW1, perhaps, but no more recent than that.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I'm writing a story set in the smoky mountains in the 1940s. It wasn't until I went to tag the story, that I realized when I think of "historical" fiction, I think Victorian. Thanks, BBC. The, um, the news organization and putter outter of some pretty great movies. Not the other BBC.

Anyhow, I was trying to figure out how to tag the story and realized I don't consider 1940s historical fiction. Even though it's 2019 and I was born in 1993. I mean, my grandma was born fourteen years before this story starts. Not my great grandma, my grandma. May she rest in peace, wherever she is, so help me G-d I hope it's nowhere she can read my stories.

Yourdictionary.com says "Historical fiction is defined as movies and novels in which a story is made up but is set in the past and sometimes borrows true characteristics of the time period in which it is set."

and,

"A book, poem, movie, or video game based on real historical events, but in which the characters are not real, and the minor events may not be realistic."

That clears some things up for me but, it makes me curious. With every decade, genres seem to count for less or get mushier or maybe they don't. I don't know. I was born in 1993.

What do you think historical fiction is?

Interesting... I totally would have assumed that 1940s was "historical" (Pearl Harbor, D-Day, etc) but yeah, like you said, my grandparents were alive then and a lot of the time the 1940s is called "vintage". Hmmm....

 

[oggbashan]

Interesting... I totally would have assumed that 1940s was "historical" (Pearl Harbor, D-Day, etc) but yeah, like you said, my grandparents were alive then and a lot of the time the 1940s is called "vintage". Hmmm....

I was alive then...

 

[whowrotethisshit]

I think, specifically when it comes to anything approaching the 50s my brain takes over and yells, "MINT COLORED FRIDGES AND BOXY CARS." Even though my own family history doesn't reflect that at all, we have photographs of weathered looking family members sitting in shacks in the middle of the woods, nary a mint-colored fridge in sight. My brain is jumbling it all up and singing the soundtrack from Greece.

But, it made me think of what I *do* consider historical and it was pretty much all Victorian, a specific Victorian.

I looked up Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe and it's considered historical fiction and is pretty close to what I'm writing. It's historical, damnit. My brain still isn't listening. It's wearing a multi-layered gown, tits out, cha-chaing around scarlet fever.

I was alive then...

I'm trying to make a biblical joke but google won't give me the answer to when abouts King Og was born and my rabbi is on a Sukkot retreat.

 

[RetroFan]

As someone who writes a lot of stories set in the past, I tend to class historical fiction as fiction that centers around a specific past event.

Using some of my works as an example, my story 'Take Cover From Tracy' is about the destruction of the Australian city of Darwin by Cyclone Tracy on Christmas Day in 1974. While the characters are fictional, that it is set during an actual event makes it historical fictional. Contrast this with my story 'Penny and Michael's Forbidden Fun', which is set in Boston in 1962. While there are many references to clothing, music, technology, world events and politics within the story to squarely place it in the early 1960s, I wouldn't class it as historical fiction as it does not involve any specific past event that took place in 1962.

 

[whowrotethisshit]

As someone who writes a lot of stories set in the past, I tend to class historical fiction as fiction that centers around a specific past event.

Using some of my works as an example, my story 'Take Cover From Tracy' is about the destruction of the Australian city of Darwin by Cyclone Tracy on Christmas Day in 1974. While the characters are fictional, that it is set during an actual event makes it historical fictional. Contrast this with my story 'Penny and Michael's Forbidden Fun', which is set in Boston in 1962. While there are many references to clothing, music, technology, world events and politics within the story to squarely place it in the early 1960s, I wouldn't class it as historical fiction as it does not involve any specific past event that took place in 1962.

That makes a lot of sense. I'm trying to think if there's any real reason my story is set in the 1940s but, nope, it just goes there naturally in my head. It's just about these characters who happened to live in that time.

 

[Hypoxia]

I will arbitrarily pick a 1950 cutoff of 'history' from "recent history" and ~2008 for the onset of 'modern'. The world changed markedly around those years. I mostly use 1975-2005 settings, and a few in the late 1800's. I'm cooking tales from 1900-1940. Yeah, so much old stuff -- the present is too much for me.

 

[Voboy]

I’d go at forty years. Two generations.

So we can call a story set in 2019 “historical” in 2059.

 

[oggbashan]

My 'Historical Fiction' is set in a particular era for a reason.

Durante the Dog is 1950s. The plot wouldn't have worked but for the British telephone system of that time.

The Casbah had to be 1940s, involving people who had been active in WW2.

Men at Arms is obvious; as is Godiva and Great Rite.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

In the end, what's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

 

[Bramblethorn]

As someone who writes a lot of stories set in the past, I tend to class historical fiction as fiction that centers around a specific past event.

Using some of my works as an example, my story 'Take Cover From Tracy' is about the destruction of the Australian city of Darwin by Cyclone Tracy on Christmas Day in 1974. While the characters are fictional, that it is set during an actual event makes it historical fictional. Contrast this with my story 'Penny and Michael's Forbidden Fun', which is set in Boston in 1962. While there are many references to clothing, music, technology, world events and politics within the story to squarely place it in the early 1960s, I wouldn't class it as historical fiction as it does not involve any specific past event that took place in 1962.

This is what I was going to say. It's about how the story relates to history, not about the year.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

This is what I was going to say. It's about how the story relates to history, not about the year.

Precisely. Could a novel written about life in Dallas in November 1963, following JFK’s assassination, be considered historical fiction? I think so. That’s 56 years ago, close to three generations.

Move in closer. How about a novel centring on people working on the Challenger space-shuttle, the one which blew up in 1986, 33 years ago? I think so.

What about one set in New York in September 2001? That’s less than 20 years ago. Again, I think so.

Let’s not get wrapped around the axle with labels.

 

[Hypoxia]

Could a novel written about life in Dallas in November 1963, following JFK’s assassination, be considered historical fiction? I think so. That’s 56 years ago, close to three generations.

For me, that's a middle-school event. For my grandkids it's Jurassic.

Move in closer. How about a novel centring on people working on the Challenger space-shuttle, the one which blew up in 1986, 33 years ago? I think so.

I mark that as "recent history", as far from my grandkids as the Hindenburg explosion was from me -- back when their or my parents were minors.

What about one set in New York in September 2001? That’s less than 20 years ago. Again, I think so.

I picked my ~2008 border between "recent history" and "current times" because iPhones, social media, recession, populism. Yes, 9-11-2001 triggered those emergent changes; today's world is not the same as 2001.

Further back, I'd say WWI triggered XXth-century history, with a boundary of ~1920 for the collapse of Eurasian "Old Regimes" and social norms. Flappers! Ragtime! Radio! Sex in cars not canoes! The dying spurts of colonialism!

Prior historical markers vary by location, with spill-overs.

• 1865 - after the US War of Southern Treason, a huge jump of US agricultural exports undercut European producers, triggering a decades-long global depression.
• 1790s - cotton gins and steam power revived US slavery and birthed the Industrial Revolution, again with global impact (and warming).
• ~1500 - Euro-American contact with food exchanges and trans-Atlantic pandemics.

And on and on, yada yada.

Let’s not get wrapped around the axle with labels.

'Historia' merely means 'story'. I don't tag any of my stories as 'ancient' or "before your time". I just try to build a world picture of the setting.

But I still think of historical periods. 'Current' is what my grandkids have lived. 'Recent' is my lifetime; newer generations hear our classic rock songs, willingly or not. 'Vintage' is post-WWI; 'antique' is before then. Yes, those are labels, which are mental handholds. I might climb again to Victorian times.

 

[oggbashan]

Contacts with the past

I remember relations who were alive at the time of the American Civil War and many who were born in Queen Victoria's reign. As a teenager I spent many hours with my older relations as a coal carrier and general handyman.

The men of my father's generation were just too young for the First World War but suffered by losing the family home to a bomb dropped by a German Zeppelin in 1915. My eldest aunt lost two fiancés on the Western Front - one a junior infantry officer in 1914 and the other an RFC pilot in 1917.

Family Christmas gatherings used to sign popular songs of the 1880s and 1890s with some 'modern' ones from the 1920s. I still know the lyrics even if I can't sing anymore...

What is 'historic'? I think it is anything set before a current reader's experience as an adult.

 

[SimonDoom]

I did a little digging on the Tag page. "Historical fiction" is rarely used as a tag. So are other similar tags like "historical" and "historical erotica." That makes sense. Tags are used for searching, and probably few people, if any, search for a story using the tag "historical fiction." They're more likely to use a tag more specific to the time period of the story they're looking for, such as "medieval" or "18th Century" or "Elizabethan" or "Victorian."

So, while a discussion about what "historical fiction" IS has some abstract interest, I think it's completely unnecessary for purposes of picking a tag. I'd skip the use of "historical fiction" altogether and pick something more specific.

In this case, "1940s" or "World War 2", or something like that.

 

[Voboy]

I did a little digging on the Tag page. "Historical fiction" is rarely used as a tag. So are other similar tags like "historical" and "historical erotica." That makes sense. Tags are used for searching, and probably few people, if any, search for a story using the tag "historical fiction." They're more likely to use a tag more specific to the time period of the story they're looking for, such as "medieval" or "18th Century" or "Elizabethan" or "Victorian."

So, while a discussion about what "historical fiction" IS has some abstract interest, I think it's completely unnecessary for purposes of picking a tag. I'd skip the use of "historical fiction" altogether and pick something more specific.

In this case, "1940s" or "World War 2", or something like that.

Good. Way to bring us back on track. The thread has gotten interesting, but the OP might not be getting help.

I said forty years earlier, but I was being abstract. Truth is, I don’t think I’d ever use “historical fiction” as a tag. I tend to tag stories based on what would attract me as a reader, and that one wouldn’t.

 

[whowrotethisshit]

So, while a discussion about what "historical fiction" IS has some abstract interest, I think it's completely unnecessary for purposes of picking a tag. I'd skip the use of "historical fiction" altogether and pick something more specific.

In this case, "1940s" or "World War 2", or something like that.

I'm using the tags "1940s" but it's romance so it's not really like the tags matter much. It'll be a small little story, with a small little readership.

Good. Way to bring us back on track. The thread has gotten interesting, but the OP might not be getting help.

I said forty years earlier, but I was being abstract. Truth is, I don’t think I’d ever use “historical fiction” as a tag. I tend to tag stories based on what would attract me as a reader, and that one wouldn’t.

I just mentioned the tag because that's what got the ball rolling in my head to ask the abstract question but I appreciate all the help as well. I'm going to tag it "1940s" as far as the period goes. There's no other historical references in the story to tag it with. I usually go through the tags of that specific category and choose the ones I see that fit my story. If they're the great big ones? That helps. But they usually aren't. HO-HUM.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm using the tags "1940s" but it's romance so it's not really like the tags matter much. It'll be a small little story, with a small little readership.

.

In that case you might use "historical romance" as a tag, because that IS a discrete, identified genre of fiction, and there may be readers out there looking for stories of this type on Literotica. You have to determine for yourself if your story is the sort of thing they might be looking for, but even if you're not sure, by using this tag you may help a lucky reader stumble over your story by accident.

The key with tag use is not to get hung up on what things "are", but instead to focus on what your prospective readers are thinking. Debates over definitions are almost always meaningless. What matters is what living, breathing readers are actually thinking.

 

[oggbashan]

... What matters is what living, breathing readers are actually thinking.

And I am usually useless in defining useful tags for my stories. Who is going to look for 'Chairman Mao'?

 

[SimonDoom]

And I am usually useless in defining useful tags for my stories. Who is going to look for 'Chairman Mao'?

Maybe "commie porn"?

Seriously, though, my suggestion to anyone mulling over tag selection is to go to the Tag page, click on the category in which you expect to post the story, and review the most commonly used tags. That's a helpful start. Also try to put yourself in the mind of what sort of reader might be looking for your story and how they would look for it.

 

[whowrotethisshit]

The key with tag use is not to get hung up on what things "are", but instead to focus on what your prospective readers are thinking. Debates over definitions are almost always meaningless. What matters is what living, breathing readers are actually thinking.

Yeah but I'd like to reiterate, I just wanted to talk about the abstract, regardless of meaninglessness, just for funs, of what historical fiction is. Especially amongst different generations. Talking about selecting a tag was just how it got that thought revving up in my brain, I thought about tagging it, "Historical fiction" and then I went off to look what was already in historical fiction and there wasn't much. Also, "Smoky mountains" had, I believe, two stories.

I usually just go to the tag page of my category and pick out which ones fit and grumble over how none of the big tags fit. And then I find a weird tag, click on it.. well that's a whole different story.

Tagging stuff is an interesting topic. I like how on Lit, you pick a tag and then it narrows down to the tags within that tag. I've found some great stories that way. Sure I want to read a scifi story, oh yes of course it should be an adventure. What's an adventure without a blowjob? And then my favorite thing happens, weird little tags pop up that a lot of authors just throw in. "airship" "blind" "pandemic" I'll go with airship and let you know how it goes.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

In my case, tags are an afterthought.

My most-read story, It Was an Itsy-Bitsy, Teenie-Weenie... was an entry for National Nude Day, submitted under First Time. My protagonist is a girl blocked from entering a public pool on a very hot day due a too-small bikini, which she then discards, enters and winds up seducing the lifeguard. The tags included public nudity, oral, skinny-dipping, dare, seduction, swimming pool and lifeguard. I can’t think of many others I might have used.

My point is that the concept of tags somehow directing potential readers to one’s story is, I don’t know... optimistic? How many thousand stories are tagged ‘skinny-dipping’? How many others are tagged ‘lifeguard’? Expecting any reasonable rise in views of my work due to the tags is not very realistic, I fear.

Moreover, as the tags are placed at the very end of a story, I doubt they provide a reader just opening it a chance to use them as a filter, a means of deciding whether or not the story has potential, something fitting their personal fantasies.