When does a session cross the line into infidelity?

[Sniper 1]

I have found a beautiful professional dominant female who is willing to see me for a one time session. The question: I'm married and am grappling with the morality of it all. If I'm forced to orally service her I would comply but is that crossing the marital infidelity line? If I am allowed to, I would love to lay at her feet and masturbate but does that cross a line?

I'd really like your opinion please (from both genders). You all are very bright, sound-minded people. Thank you for your time.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I have found a beautiful professional dominant female who is willing to see me for a one time session. The question: I'm married and am grappling with the morality of it all. If I'm forced to orally service her I would comply but is that crossing the marital infidelity line? If I am allowed to, I would love to lay at her feet and masturbate but does that cross a line?

I'd really like your opinion please (from both genders). You all are very bright, sound-minded people. Thank you for your time.

hmmmm i would think that unless your wife knows you are going to see another woman you have already crossed the line.

 

[graceanne]

hmmmm i would think that unless your wife knows you are going to see another woman you have already crossed the line.

I agree.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Good way to check is if you would feel comfortable if your wife walked in unexpectedly or not....if the answer is no, then you can pretty much bet you have crossed an important line.

Catalina

 

[gingermango]

Good way to check is if you would feel comfortable if your wife walked in unexpectedly or not....if the answer is no, then you can pretty much bet you have crossed an important line.

Catalina

Good advice you've gotten here already. Having lived for 10 years in an unhappy marriage, one where I craved firm and loving dominance but never received it, I can understand the temptation to seek out a professional.

However, that said, I would never advise someone to seek out the assistance of a prodom(me) without having first cleared it with one's significant other. If this is such an important need that it strains to bounds of a marriage, then you owe it yourself, your marriage and your partner to discuss it and try to reach a compromise that works for all. In my case I was unable to reach a workable compromise and my needs (and my ex's inability or unwillingness to meet them or allow me to have them met) resulted in a divorce.

So talk to your spouse, try to work out a compromise, and don't do anything you'll regret later. Just my two cents.

 

[Sniper 1]

Yeah, I guess you're all right. The problem is my wife would never knowingly allow me to do this. No matter what she believes this isn't about sex. If I was looking for something extramarital it wouldn't be in a B&D session. I have had a number of oppurtunities to go outside of my marriage over the 25 years we've been together and I've never done it. I just think it would be incredibly erotic to be tied up naked and physically abused by a female, and my wife would absolutely freak at the suggestion. She's so prudish she's been wearing floor length nightgowns since she was in her early twenties, and never walks around the house anything less than fully clothed.

Oh well, thanks for the advice.

 

[ObsidianRose]

Best of luck to you, Sniper. I really hope that you are able to work things out in a manner that is acceptable to you both.

O.R.

 

[coastal-boy]

I have found a beautiful professional dominant female who is willing to see me for a one time session. The question: I'm married and am grappling with the morality of it all. If I'm forced to orally service her I would comply but is that crossing the marital infidelity line? If I am allowed to, I would love to lay at her feet and masturbate but does that cross a line?

I'd really like your opinion please (from both genders). You all are very bright, sound-minded people. Thank you for your time.

sounds like I'm late here and the question has been resolved...but I just wanted to add that if you had to ask the question...you probably already knew the answer but was hoping for a different response. I believe you have gotten very sound advice from all the other members.

 

[WriterDom]

Sounds a bit like the Clinton defense. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky" Once your naughty parts start getting pulled out to be shared with another person, you are cheating. In my opinion.

 

[FurryFury]

Sounds a bit like the Clinton defense. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky" Once your naughty parts start getting pulled out to be shared with another person, you are cheating. In my opinion.

In my opinion you can be cheating waaaay before then.

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

Yeah, I guess you're all right. The problem is my wife would never knowingly allow me to do this. No matter what she believes this isn't about sex. If I was looking for something extramarital it wouldn't be in a B&D session. I have had a number of oppurtunities to go outside of my marriage over the 25 years we've been together and I've never done it. I just think it would be incredibly erotic to be tied up naked and physically abused by a female, and my wife would absolutely freak at the suggestion. She's so prudish she's been wearing floor length nightgowns since she was in her early twenties, and never walks around the house anything less than fully clothed.

Oh well, thanks for the advice.

If you want it bad enough, you will do something about it. I won't judge people, men or women who "know" what their spouse will tolerate and what they won't without talking to them about it. The fact that they live in a relationship that doesn't allow for that sort of communication is sad and I honestly don't know what I would do in a relationship like that. It sort of reminds me of how I was with my parents. I was afraid of their reactions to things so there are tons of things I did that they never knew about. I got what I wanted and they didn't get hurt, right? Only thing, a spouse should not, IMO be thought of like a parent.

The other problem is that whatever you do can and will affect your feelings for your wife and your relationship even if she never finds out. If she does find out, well, that is a whole other kettle of fish.

I see men who say their wives are not into this or that all the time. Some even say she used to be but now is not into sex at all.

When I see how much effort they put into what they want and bypassing their wives I often wonder, they put that much effort into their relationships with their wives would a lot of the problems in said relationship possibly be solvable?

As long as you think it can't be changed it won't be, you know? Sure change is scary as is opening up but if two people love each other it should be possible, little by little. I'm not saying that this will miraculously turn your wife into a Domme for you or solve everything over night. It's a slow process because it requires you to think of someone else's feelings as much as your own and find compromises that might benefit you both in the long term.

Fury

 

[Pure]

Hi Sniper

SniperYeah, I guess you're all right. The problem is my wife would never knowingly allow me to do this. No matter what she believes this isn't about sex. If I was looking for something extramarital it wouldn't be in a B&D session. I have had a number of oppurtunities to go outside of my marriage over the 25 years we've been together and I've never done it. I just think it would be incredibly erotic to be tied up naked and physically abused by a female, and my wife would absolutely freak at the suggestion. She's so prudish she's been wearing floor length nightgowns since she was in her early twenties, and never walks around the house anything less than fully clothed. [...]

Oh well, thanks for the advice.

P: I think fury has made some good points, but the suggestion to put the effort into work with your wife may not go anywhere.

GingerM made some good points,

GMHowever, that said, I would never advise someone to seek out the assistance of a prodom(me) without having first cleared it with one's significant other. If this is such an important need that it strains to bounds of a marriage, then you owe it yourself, your marriage and your partner to discuss it and try to reach a compromise that works for all. In my case I was unable to reach a workable compromise and my needs (and my ex's inability or unwillingness to meet them or allow me to have them met) resulted in a divorce.

P: GM is raising the real possibility that the 'up front' approach will sink the marriage. I think that likely accurate. None of us can predict, given what little we know about you, but unlimited faith in 'fixing up the relationship' through 'hard work' seems unjustified.

Just to put a little spice into the discussion, let us suppose that GM's events are going to happen to you. You declare yourself and your spouse can't live with it or compromise. But a couple of other things are possible: for example 1) your trial is not at all what you fantasize;
2) your trial run is OK, but not something to sacrifice the marriage for.
(Indeed what 'pro' arrangements ARE worth that? The pro has no committments to you, ya know. She's there as long as the paycheck is there, just like the garage mechanic is 'there' to fix your car if you've got the bread).

So, I would ask GM what one is to do if these are the facts? IOW, you declare yourself, split up, then find it's like number 2.

Would she still give her advice:
GNSo talk to your spouse, try to work out a compromise, and don't do anything you'll regret later.

Does this mean you should then have a secret trial? Well no one can advise you about how to assess risks.

Another factor is the strength of the impulse, something we and maybe you don't know. GM did not address this. Suppose it's transient and light; suppose it's a deepseated craving? How are we to tell, esp. PRIOR to doing anything?


FTSOA, take the second possibility (which we don't know yet): you HAVE to have these scenes. Then your life necessarily revolves around them. So there are two possibilities: being a bachelor who forever pays for a series of them, or marrying someone who doesn't care about it, possibly because she's not too involved, or you're too rich to dump, or whatever.

What I am saying then is that these 'out in the cold' scenarios have to be considered, and that you shouldn't necessarily assume the true-love-also-domme is 'out there' to save your bacon once you cut loose. Now, maybe you're rich and handsome and finding this rare woman will not be a problem, but then again, maybe you're not.

Just some thoughts.

J.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I have found a beautiful professional dominant female who is willing to see me for a one time session. The question: I'm married and am grappling with the morality of it all. If I'm forced to orally service her I would comply but is that crossing the marital infidelity line? If I am allowed to, I would love to lay at her feet and masturbate but does that cross a line?

I'd really like your opinion please (from both genders). You all are very bright, sound-minded people. Thank you for your time.

As others have stated, if you aren't willing to have your wife there, or have her walk in on you, you know it's cheating.

As for being forced to orally serve her? In almost any location I am aware of, if you are paying her and have any contact with her sexually, or she has sexual contact with you, it's prostitution, not pro domination. She can tie you up, force you to wear girlly clothes, she can beat you black and blue. But once you touch, lick, or stick Mr or Mz Happy, or _insert_ anything into a body orifice (possible exception being a gag), you run the risk of getting busted for prostitution, or soliciting for prostitution, or some other some such charge.

Keeping you aware, I am,

 

[Pure]

//As for being forced to orally serve her? In almost any location I am aware of, if you are paying her and have any contact with her sexually, or she has sexual contact with you, it's prostitution, not pro domination. She can tie you up, force you to wear girlly clothes, she can beat you black and blue. But once you touch, lick, or stick Mr or Mz Happy, or _insert_ anything into a body orifice (possible exception being a gag), you run the risk of getting busted for prostitution, or soliciting for prostitution, or some other some such charge.//

Yes there are pro dommes who both talk of and practice a 'no sex' rule, esp. in areas where prostitution is illegal. Yet it that effort to stay on the right side of the law doesn't always work--she busted anyway.

Further, the line becomes a little blurry: STrictly speaking, after a session she should send the guy home to jack off according to instructions. But is she prostituting herself if she allows the j.o. to be done in front on her (no bodily contact), so that she may then order him to lick it up off the floor?

In line with evil's cautions, clearly you want to be discreet and in a one-to-one situation (where you are trusted not to be a cop). Then what happens remains between the two of you.

 

[Guest]

I have found a beautiful professional dominant female who is willing to see me for a one time session. The question: I'm married and am grappling with the morality of it all. If I'm forced to orally service her I would comply but is that crossing the marital infidelity line? If I am allowed to, I would love to lay at her feet and masturbate but does that cross a line?

I'd really like your opinion please (from both genders). You all are very bright, sound-minded people. Thank you for your time.

Pretty much right about the time you ask that question...

Oh...And my knowledge, and the conversations I have had with munch/plarty/etc organizers, pretty much mirrors the info from Geoff...

 

[gingermango]

GingerM made some good points,

GM However, that said, I would never advise someone to seek out the assistance of a prodom(me) without having first cleared it with one's significant other. If this is such an important need that it strains to bounds of a marriage, then you owe it yourself, your marriage and your partner to discuss it and try to reach a compromise that works for all. In my case I was unable to reach a workable compromise and my needs (and my ex's inability or unwillingness to meet them or allow me to have them met) resulted in a divorce.

Just to put a little spice into the discussion, let us suppose that GM's events are going to happen to you. You declare yourself and your spouse can't live with it or compromise. But a couple of other things are possible: for example 1) your trial is not at all what you fantasize;
2) your trial run is OK, but not something to sacrifice the marriage for.

So, I would ask GM what one is to do if these are the facts? IOW, you declare yourself, split up, then find it's like number 2.

Respectfully, I think I've already addressed Number 2 with the premise I stated above: if Sniper's desires are so strong that they strain the bounds of his marriage, then he needs to work something out before they sink his marriage. Most people that I've spoken with who are in sexually-unsatisfying marriages rarely (IMHO) try something they've been denied and decide it's just ho-hum. In fact, the longer the denial, the more repressed they feel in their marriages, the more urgent the need seems to become.

I would never advise a "secret trial" outside the bounds of marriage or whatever commitment the parties have to one another. I would, however, advise a trial within the marriage and if the parter/spouse is unwilling to assist, I'd advice the help of a licensed and trained marriage/relationship therapist. Something's wrong with a marriage when the partner is not only not turned on by one's kinks (everyone has some quirks that aren't shared, so what?) but is actively negative toward their partner's. I mean, Goddess has some needs that don't "do it" for me, but I do them for her because they turn her on. And turning her on turns ME on, even if the particular kink or fetish doesn't. And having been in a relationship similar to Sniper's, the difference is night and day.

Would she still give her advice:
GMSo talk to your spouse, try to work out a compromise, and don't do anything you'll regret later.

Yes!

Does this mean you should then have a secret trial? Well no one can advise you about how to assess risks.

I would still say no to this.

Another factor is the strength of the impulse, something we and maybe you don't know. GM did not address this. Suppose it's transient and light; suppose it's a deepseated craving? How are we to tell, esp. PRIOR to doing anything?

Again, if the urges are straining the bounds of the marriage, they don't sound terribly light or transient. They sound like a kink trying to "get out" and be expressed. I would still say try to work out something you and your spouse can live with together if the rest of the relationship is worth it. Again, a trained therapist can work wonders in helping a partner who is not understanding and who feels threatened by one's needs to understand and support you. Of course, they're not miracle workers, which is why I ended up divorced. Stuff happens.

Good luck and I hope things work out for you.

 

[Netzach]

Further, the line becomes a little blurry: STrictly speaking, after a session she should send the guy home to jack off according to instructions. But is she prostituting herself if she allows the j.o. to be done in front on her (no bodily contact), so that she may then order him to lick it up off the floor?

Those girls behind glass in the booths must never get out of jail.

 

[Pure]

Reply to Ginger M

GM I would never advise a "secret trial" outside the bounds of marriage or whatever commitment the parties have to one another. I would, however, advise a trial within the marriage and if the parter/spouse is unwilling to assist, I'd advice the help of a licensed and trained marriage/relationship therapist.

Something's wrong with a marriage when the partner is not only not turned on by one's kinks (everyone has some quirks that aren't shared, so what?) but is actively negative toward their partner's. I mean, Goddess has some needs that don't "do it" for me, but I do them for her because they turn her on. And turning her on turns ME on, even if the particular kink or fetish doesn't. And having been in a relationship similar to Sniper's, the difference is night and day.
-----

I, pure, respond:
P: I wouldn't want to tell someone what to do, but I'd recognize that there are many pathways available to a person trying to fulfill themselves.

While I don't deny that there's much to be said for your scenario, I think it assumes too much altruism of the partner. YOu assume they can have nothing against the other's kinks, and should find them a turn on. Or, failing that, that separation is the best solution, because 'something's wrong' with the marriage.

IF, FTSOA, we assume, hypothetically, that genders are to be assigned as follows*: GingerM is a female with a male partner. She's not supposed to be averse to having him come home having been with some prodomme whose been pissing in his mouth. (The point remains regardless of the genders of the parties.)

Consider the relevance of GM's approach to the well known story and movie "Bridges of Madison County." Hubby is, on this line of thought, supposed to be open to a 'therapeutic' and sexually fulfilling affair, and if he isn't, well, the local marriage counsellor** is Cornfields Iowa is going to help her sell it to him. Unless of course he objects, turfs her out and sues for custody of the kids since his wife's turned into a slut.

---
*I do not know the gender of Ginger M, in fact.
**who would actually be her pastor or priest!

 

[gingermango]

I, pure, respond:
P: I wouldn't want to tell someone what to do, but I'd recognize that there are many pathways available to a person trying to fulfill themselves.

While I don't deny that there's much to be said for your scenario, I think it assumes too much altruism of the partner. YOu assume they can have nothing against the other's kinks, and should find them a turn on. Or, failing that, that separation is the best solution, because 'something's wrong' with the marriage.

I think you're over-simplifying my advice to Sniper. Let me try again:

IMHO, a sexually-healthy marriage between truly compatible people should result in both partners feeling satisfied and happy, however they work out the details. Whether it's with one another, or with other partners with each other's consent or however they choose to work it out.

If on the other hand, one partner has an un-shared urge or desire that is too strong to deny (e.g., NOT a passing whim), one that causes him or her to contemplate breaking whatever type of fidelity the two of them share, there is a problem.

The solutions to such problems depend on the people involved. There is one particular activity that I enjoy a great deal but Goddess does not. However, within the bounds of our marriage, she encourages me to seek out that pleasure from others so long as she knows about it and is present at the time (we play together as a couple from time to time). Were I to go find a secret way to satisfy my desires in that fashion, I would be breaking my vows to her and would be unfaithful in a way that would be hurtful to her. But under our groundrules as they are laid out, we have reached a compromise.

Similarly, there are several activities Goddess enjoys that are not my cup of tea. However, they don't make me angry or upset to hear about. I do them with her because they excite her and make her happy, not because they bring me any great pleasure or joy in and of themselves. However, making her happy and bringing her joy DOES make me happy and bring me joy in return. So we have a self-fulfilling cycle, a positive-reinforcement loop, in technical terms.

On the other hand, if her or my desires (those that the other partner cannot or does not wish to fulfill) caused anger, jealousy, or some other unhappy reaction that could not be worked out, there is a strong argument to be made that the people involved are just not compatible in important ways. And I know this from unpleasant personal experience.

And if that is truly the case for Sniper, my response is this: life is too damned short. Seek your joy, find your bliss and be true to yourself in everything that you do.

IF, FTSOA, we assume GingerM has a male partner, she's not supposed to be averse to having him come home having been with some prodomme whose been pissing in his mouth.

I'm not sure I follow - If I had a male partner (I don't) who wanted to have his mouth pissed into, while it's not my thing (I'm a sub), I would gladly poke my cock towards his mouth and let loose to make him happy and excited. I mean, urine is sterile if the pee'er is healthy (and I am), so . . . whatever floats his boat. IF he had a need I didn't wish to fulfill I think I would do what I do with my Goddess - I fufill it anyway, knowing it makes her happy, which in turn makes me happy. Now turning again to your hypothetical, if I had a subbie male partner who wanted real female domination (as I do, from Goddess), I'd try to find us both a dominant female to play with who could satisfy our needs together. Failing all that, it might just mean we had to go our separate ways.

Consider the relevance of GM's approach to the well known story and movie "Bridges of Madison County." Hubby is, on this line of thought, supposed to be open to a 'therapeutic' and sexually fulfilling affair, and if he isn't, well, the local marriage counsellor is Cornfields Iowa is going to help her sell it to him. Unless of course he objects, turfs her out and sues for custody of the kids since his wife's turned into a slut.

Hence my initial advice to discuss matters very thoroughly with his spouse and try to work out a compromise together, and to not do anything he might regret before he has done so.

For what it's worth, I'd never advise anyone to break marriage or committment vows in search of short-term sexual release. But I would always advise someone to end an unhappy marriage when he or she feels no satisfaction and when his or her needs are ignored, discarded, or result in hostility and anger from his or her partner. Life's too short.

 

[chun_gong]

Good way to check is if you would feel comfortable if your wife walked in unexpectedly or not....if the answer is no, then you can pretty much bet you have crossed an important line.

Catalina

That is the BEST example that I have heard regarding infidelity in ANY situation!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you.