When Astronomy Goes Bad

Dillinger

Guerrilla Ontologist
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http://www.badastronomy.com

Here is an article from the June 2002 issue of Discover magazine that I found quite interesting...

The web site (above) is also worth checking out.

When Astronomy Goes Bad:
Why are media science stories still crazy after all these years?
By Bob Berman

Even as researchers report one amazing discovery after another, media depictions of astronomy seem stuck in a state of arrested development. Many scientists look at the endless misconceptions that fill the airwaves and sigh, but Philip Plait, a NASA consultant and astronomer at Sonoma State University in California, decided to do something about it. After watching a local newscaster state that it is possible to balance an egg on its end only during an equinox, he wrote a rebuttal and posted it in what was then, in 1994, a novel place?the World Wide Web. Four years later he launched badastronomy.com, a site compiling responses to celestial misinformation. Now he has published a companion book, Bad Astronomy, that uses scientific goofs to teach people how the world really works.

The media's astronomy errors fall into three broad categories: silly, sloppy, and malicious. Egg balancing clearly falls in the first group. It takes only a moment's thinking to realize gravity is no different during the equinoxes than at any other time. The myth that flushing toilets and draining sinks swirl the opposite way in the Southern Hemisphere is another example of silly science. Pseudo-experts claim Earth's rotation causes this phenomenon, but the effect is tiny: You would have to let a sink sit for three weeks before the water would be still enough to reveal any influence of our planet's spin. And toilets flush in a consistent direction merely because they are designed to swish the water in one direction.

Sloppy mistakes result from unfamiliarity with the basic workings of science. Plait has complained about reporters who refer to the giant "lens" of the Hubble Space Telescope. Like all large telescopes, Hubble collects light with a mirror. Sure enough, during the recent NASA mission to upgrade the Space Telescope, a network news anchor promised that the upgrade would "make the Hubble's lens 10 times more powerful." Likewise, reporters often claim that people on the International Space Station have escaped Earth's gravity. In fact, the astronauts experience a full 89 percent as much gravitational pull in orbit as they do on terra firma. The sensation of weightlessness arises because the station is constantly falling along its curved orbit, like a roller coaster taking a steep plunge, which makes everyone on board feel weightless.

The worst offenses, which could be called maliciously bad science, seem to be deliberate deceptions intended to boost ratings. Last year, scientists and astronauts expressed disgust when a Fox network program claimed the Apollo missions to the moon might have been hoaxes. Plait quickly debunked the alleged evidence point by point, and traffic on his Web site soared to 4.5 million page views. But the most powerful rebuttal comes from science itself. Astronomer Tom Murphy of the University of Washington is preparing to bounce a laser off a set of reflectors on the moon to measure the lunar distance to within one-twentieth of an inch. How did the reflectors get there? Apollo astronauts installed them for just such experiments.

Sometimes bad astronomy is all in the name of fun. But Plait, a self-proclaimed science fiction nut, cannot resist deconstructing Hollywood's space fantasies and showing what they would be like if they obeyed the laws of physics. Spaceship engines would not whoosh, stars would not streak by, and even the most skillful pilot could not dodge enemy laser beams. Nothing travels faster than light, so there would be no way to know that a beam was headed your way until it arrived.

Plait isn't out to lecture. His goal is to demonstrate that reality is actually more interesting than make-believe. To understand why you can balance an egg at all, you need to know how a hen's body makes an eggshell?and that's a much better story than the scrambled science any newscaster might create.



http://www.badastronomy.com/pix/starwars2_ngc4565.jpg
 
when Astronomy goes bad

I've never heard a version of Astronomy I didn't love - the early slow version, to the fast version on the album Imaginos.
 
Geeze I'm feeling like I'm back in school.

Sometimes I think that the media and hollywood bring things down to a certain level because they feel that the average person wouldn't understand what in the hell they are talking about. They try to put this in terms we can readily understand. Unfortunately they do the public a disservice by doing this.


I never thought about the laser beams thing. Now I really don't believe Star Wars!
 
slarttybartfast said:
Geeze I'm feeling like I'm back in school.

Sometimes I think that the media and hollywood bring things down to a certain level because they feel that the average person wouldn't understand what in the hell they are talking about. They try to put this in terms we can readily understand. Unfortunately they do the public a disservice by doing this.


I never thought about the laser beams thing. Now I really don't believe Star Wars!

No they do it because they are just damn stupid some of the time.

Additional in space you would not even be able to see a laser at all. You would only be able to see it if it struck you or if it passed through some form of debris.

Back when I used to play the old X-wing star wars simulator games it pissed me off to no end that you had to lead your targets. All of the fighters used lasers and none of them had a range of more then 2 km's so the laser would cover the distance instantly. There would be no need to lead the target.
 
Speaking of Star Wars - from the same web site I listed above - they gave a good review of the movie but, of course, did point out the scientific inaccuracies:

I'll note that there wasn't a whole lot of actual astronomy and spacey-type stuff in this movie, but there was some, and of course, some mistakes. So now, on to the astronomy!

Bad (actually, good):
Obi-Wan is trying to find the planet Kamino, which is the location of the person who paid an assassin to kill Padme. He goes to the Republic's archive, a vast library of information. He cannot find Kamino, so he asks a librarian for help. He points to a spot on a map of the galaxy, and says (paraphrasing a bit) "Kamino should be here, a few parsecs south of the Rishi Maze."

Good:
You're probably thinking that there is no "south" in space, right? Well, actually, there is! Our own Milky Way Galaxy, and presumably also the galaxy that existed a long time ago and far, far away, are both spiral galaxies. This type of galaxy consists of a large flat disk of stars and gas with a central spheroidal hub. The disk may have vast spiral arms sweeping through it, though not all do (read about spiral galaxies in an article I wrote for Astronomy Magazine's website). The Sun orbits the center of our own Galaxy in the disk. To us, in the disk, the galaxy appears as a thin line, since we are seeing it edge-on (like in the picture shown here, which is a spiral galaxy much like our own seen edge-on). The center of the galaxy, toward the hub, appears as a roughly circular bulge.

This gives us a natural coordinate system! We can define the galactic longitude of, say, a star (or a planet of clones) as its position in the plane of the galaxy, with the direction to the center of the galaxy defined as 0 degrees longitude. Latitude is then defined as how far above or below the plane of the galaxy the object is. We pick a direction to be "above" the plane (since up and down are arbitrary in space) and call this "north". The other direction is of course "south". Astronomers actually use a galactic coordinate system today to map out objects; it's convenient for many types of observations.

So it's not Bad at all that Obi-Wan says the planet is south of the Rishi Maze. It's actually a perfectly good way to describe it!

Bad:
Someone has tampered with the Republic's archive, removing the planet Kamino, so Obi-Wan doesn't see it in the archive's map. However, the gravitational effect of the planet's star can be seen on the stars around it, which is why Obi-Wan is able to detect it. As Yoda so poetically put it, "Gravity's silhouette remains".

Good:
Well, again, scientifically this is true. Stars have gravity, and that gravity does affect all the objects around it. An advanced civilization, we can assume, could easily detect that effect. My problem with this is that the person who removed the system from the map had to have been very good (and this is even commented in the movie), and yet they forgot to change the stars around it to compensate! That's pretty sloppy on the part of the Bad Guy. Can you say "plot device"? Again, this isn't so much an astronomy error as it is a way to more easily advance the plot based on someone else's Bad Astronomy.

Bad:
Obi-Wan chases Jango Fett (Boba's father) to the ringed planet Geonosis pictured below). They dogfight through the thick rings, dodging huge tumbling boulders. Trying to kill Obi-Wan, Jango Fett deploys "seismic charges". When they explode, a huge shock wave of sound is created, which expands violently outward. Obi-Wan manages to escape by hiding on the surface of one of the rocks.

Good:
http://www.badastronomy.com/pix/starwars2_geonosis.jpg
We know ringed planets exist, of course; four planets in our own solar system have them. However, the biggest of the particles in Saturn's rings, for example, are only a few meters in size. Over a long time, collisions between the chunks of ice have broken them up, making them smaller. Given the number and density of the rocks in the Geonosian rings, they should have ground themselves to dust a long time before. Really big rocks, like the one Obi-Wan actually flies his ship through (and how does an asteroidal body like that get a long tunnel drilled though it?) shouldn't last very long in such a system. They're a big target, and the first to get hit.

Then there is the matter of the seismic charges. In space, as it is said, no one can hear you scream. Without air, this is literally true: sound needs a medium (like air, water or rock) through which to travel. A vacuum, by definition, is the lack of such a medium, so sound cannot travel in space. I'll accept that movies depict ships making sounds as they move through space, since almost every movie does it, and we, the viewing audience, are used to hearing sounds as things move past us. But I have my limits. The seismic charge, based on sound, cannot work.

Now, I expect Star Wars purists will want to argue this point with me, making claims about how the seismic charges use a subspace blast or some such thing (shades of the Kessel run!). However, I'm not buying it. When the charges explode, we see the flash, but hear nothing for several seconds. Then, BOOM! Since sound travels slower than light, we see the flash immediately, but must wait a few seconds for the sound wave to reach us (which is why we see lightning before we hear thunder). So clearly Lucas is implying that the charges are sonic. In space, that just won't work.

(Note added May 30, 2002: As I expected, the emails have flooded in. There have been many interesting points raised, from the charges vaporizing the asetroids (and so we see the debris expanding) to us just seeing the shock wave itself. Either way, I'm just not buying it! The sound effect accompanying the shock wave is not like that of a blast; it has a more resonant, bell-like quality. Clearly, Lucas was implying something more than just a simple explosion here. And calling it a seismic charge also implies something different than a mine or a missile. So I'm sticking by my guns, haha, and throwing the flag on this one.)

Bad:
While in the rings, Jango Fett is able to get a few clean blaster shots on Obi-Wan's ship, making small holes and scorch marks in the hull.

Good:
Scorch marks make sense. However, when Obi-Wan lands on the planet, we can see the scorch marks have clearly been blown back, as if by wind. You can expect that in a dogfight between airplanes, but spaceships? Again, with no air, there is nothing to blow against the ship, giving the marks that pattern. It's possible, barely, that his passage through the atmosphere as he landed did that, but somehow I think this was just a physics error on Lucas' part.

[Note added May 30, 2002: I have received quite a few emails about this one. Many people point out, correctly, that if Obi-Wan were accelerating when his ship got hit, then the scorch mark would look like it were blown backwards. Scorch marks are made (I can assume in this case) by vaporized metal from his hull. When it gets heated by the blaster, it expands rapidly. Normally this would leave a circular scorch mark, but if he is accelerating, it would be displaced in the direction opposite the acceleration. So if he is increasing his forward speed, the marks would be behind the actual hole.

However, I'll note that every mark was behind the hole (well, toward the aft, to use ship-lingo). That means that every time he was hit he was accelerating forward. That seems unlikely to me! There have been other explanations emailed to me as well, but like the acceleration idea, they all assume that every time Obi-Wan's ship is hit everything is exactly the same (that is, distance between the ships, their relative angle, speed, etc. is always the same, which they clearly wouldn't be in a dogfight). So again, I'll chalk this one up as an error, pure and simple.]

Bad:
When Count Dooku leaves the planet Geonosis, he uses a solar sail type ship.

Good:
Solar sails are a theoretical type of spaceship, and have been used in science fiction for decades. Photons of light have no mass, but due to the peculiarity of quantum mechanics, they do have momentum. A solar sail would literally be a huge, lightweight sail (perhaps made of mylar) that can catch light. It uses the light from a star as a sort of wind, blowing the sail. A lot of the physics of solar sailing is like wind sailing on Earth's oceans! NASA is actually looking into the engineering of solar sails. They might very well make a useful method of moving through interplanetary space. You don't need to carry much fuel, since the fuel you use is raw sunlight.

However (and here at Bad Astronomy Central there is always a "however"), note that I said interplanetary space. Solar sails accelerate very slowly. It might take weeks or months to get up to a reasonable speed to move between planets. Dooku uses one to travel to another star system. I hope he's not in a hurry! It'll take decades at least to get to another star. Padme mentions that Coruscant is "halfway across the galaxy" from Geonosis, so that journey by sail would actually take thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years. Dooku better pack an in-flight snack.

Conclusions:
So, that's it! Like I said above, there wasn't much astronomy in the movie, so there isn't much to comment on. This movie did better than others in the series, and the mistakes weren't that big of a deal; there wasn't much plot that depended on the Bad Astronomy (except maybe the seismic charges).

I did enjoy the movie, and plan on seeing it again (after I watch "Phantom Menace" again as a refresher). The first part is a bit slow, and even silly in parts (why oh why does C3P0 get so many lines?), but the last half more than makes up for it. And I can't believe I'm writing this, but I am actually looking forward to Episode 3.
 
Tee-hee. I love this stuff. I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl. LOL

I'll never forget the Jaywalking segment on Leno when people couldn't answer the question, "Which is bigger, the sun or the moon?"
 
Astronomy..........

is way out there, isn't it???


Beam me up Scotty, there's no inteligent life down here, or did someone else say that??

Oh well, the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.......******, the final frontier........or is it???
 
Actually I believe there are one or two examples of intelligent life here and there... its just in hiding most of the time.
 
Neutron stars are suns that are 10 times the size of our sun. They are so dense that if you had a spoonful of a neutron star it would weigh more than Mount Everest.


_______________________________

My mind is full of shit like that.
 
Dillinger said:
We know ringed planets exist, of course; four planets in our own solar system have them. However, the biggest of the particles in Saturn's rings, for example, are only a few meters in size. Over a long time, collisions between the chunks of ice have broken them up, making them smaller. Given the number and density of the rocks in the Geonosian rings, they should have ground themselves to dust a long time before. Really big rocks, like the one Obi-Wan actually flies his ship through (and how does an asteroidal body like that get a long tunnel drilled though it?) shouldn't last very long in such a system. They're a big target, and the first to get hit.

If the belt were relatively new then the debris which was formed by some other event (a moon breaking up or outright destroyed, perhaps?) could be that large. It's remote, but possible, barely.

What bothered me more was that the hunks of rock were all moving in different speeds and directions like the asteroids in "The Empire Strikes Back". That's just not going to happen. These hunks of rock are part of a well-formed ring system which means that they're well under the influence of the planet's gravity. As long as that's true, then the planet's gravity would move them in the same direction and general speed also. I'm thinking that the treacherous debris belt is just a fact in "Lucas Space". :)
 
I love when newscasters juxtapose the words "Galaxy" and "Solar System", which they do often, as if they're pretty much the same thing.

Can you imagine if we had a moon landing today? The muslim extremists would really flip out (like they did in '69) over the Americans daring to dirty their iconic moon with our grubby Crusade-waging feet.

I'd love it of course. Now that we have a billion communications satellites everywhere, and digital cameras the size of a pin-head, we could finally get some decent footage. Of course, NASA's a bit strapped for cash these days, so Nike and Gateway Computer and others would have banners on the side of the rocket, but, hey, that's a small price to pay for setting up the first Intersolar Waystation for launches to the other planets, or, at the very least, a Walgreens.
 
Dixon Carter Lee said:
Of course, NASA's a bit strapped for cash these days, so Nike and Gateway Computer and others would have banners on the side of the rocket, but, hey, that's a small price to pay for setting up the first Intersolar Waystation for launches to the other planets, or, at the very least, a Walgreens.

Well, it's interesting you should bring that up. ;)

There is at least one group that's working on a commercial moon shot and further ventures there. The problem isn't that NASA doesn't have the money, but that they don't have the interest in the moon. There's nothing there for them, they've said, and that's that. So as long as they have the stranglehold on man-rated orbital boosters, no one's going to go until they raise the cash for a shuttle shot and a craft to get them from orbit to the moon and back. ASI is working on that slowly but steadily.
 
It's silly to apply science to Star Wars, which is not science fiction, but fantasy. Star Wars is too easy a target, and a target that doesn't care what it gets "wrong".

"Star Trek", too, acknowledges that it's taking licence with concepts like "the similair worlds theory" so they can have a lot of humanoids in the galaxy -- makes for cheaper costuming. But, overall, they're a more legit target for science carping, starting with the whole "there's no sound in space" thing.

I've read that the only thing Kubric screwed up (techincally) in 2001 was a shot of Heywood Floyd eating a meal in space by sucking it up through a straw. After sucking you can see the food slide back down the straw, which wouldn't happen in zero gravity. And if that's the worst mistake you made, you're batting 500 in my book.
 
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