What's wrong with using possessives and contractios?

[Weird Harold]

Maybe it's because I seek out stories by new authors and have run into a bunch of rank novices or authors with English as a second language, but I've recently noticed a lot of stories that go to convuluted lengths to avoid using the possessive forms and contractions.

Instead of "she took her brother's hand" I'm seeing things like, "She took the hand belonging to her brother."

or

"He stroked the soft cheeks of the girl," instead of "He stroked her cheeks."

To some extent, I can understand why this happens with non-English speakers who have to translate from languages that don't use possessive forms, but why is it so common for novice writers to avoid simple English?

 

[Madame Manga]

That's a new one on me. Well, except for pro wrestling announcers--they always say, "Look at that shot to the head of Benoit!" rather than "Look at that shot to Benoit's head!" I have a notion that they want to avoid the sibilant in speaking.

In writing, perhaps some people are genuinely frightened of misusing the 's, since its proper placement seems to elude many people in the signmaking profession, but your guess is as good as mine.

Hey, found something:
http://www.wilbers.com/apostrophes.htm

MM

 

[MathGirl]

why is it so common for novice writers to avoid simple English?

Dear Mr Harold,
I think there are a lot of wannabee writers who are afflicted with the dread apostrophoplegia. They avoid contractions, possessives, and plurals because they don't know how to use apostrophes. The only thing worse is when they don't avoid them.
MG
Ps. I detested the nuns with whom I spent the first nine years of my education, but I must admit they taught me something.
Pps. I agree with your point about writers for whom English is a second language. There are also a lot of Americans who are functional illiterates. Teaching at the university level can really open one's eyes.

 

[shereads]

Maybe they've heard that frequent contractions mean you're in labor.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I think it's the whole notion of being "authorly". Authors are smart people who use elevated diction. They don't sound like normal people. Besides, Mrs. Crabtree of remedial English said to never use contractions in writing. I was thusly informed after writing a punctuation essay that one shouldn't use contractions by a colij perfesser.

It's like reading sonnets people have written for the first time with lots of e'ers thous and bless'd.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Maybe it's because I seek out stories by new authors and have run into a bunch of rank novices or authors with English as a second language, but I've recently noticed a lot of stories that go to convuluted lengths to avoid using the possessive forms and contractions.

Instead of "she took her brother's hand" I'm seeing things like, "She took the hand belonging to her brother."

or

"He stroked the soft cheeks of the girl," instead of "He stroked her cheeks."

To some extent, I can understand why this happens with non-English speakers who have to translate from languages that don't use possessive forms, but why is it so common for novice writers to avoid simple English?

Hi, Harold. The first example sounds dumb. The second might be okay, depending on the context. Neither is a contraction, though.

Like some people said, it could be fear of apostrophes but anybody should be able to able to write a simple possesive like "her brother's hand and pronouns have no apostrophes. On the other hand: The car belonging to Mr. and Mrs. Jones or The Joneses' car? I'm not sure that apostrophe is correctly placed. Joneses's? That doesn't look right. Or, my brother's girlfriend's uncle's car's windshield was broken. That doesn't look right either, but I think it is.

I use a lot of contractions in dialogue because that is the way people talk so maybe I don't use them whenever I could in narration. A contraction seems to carry less weight, as in "that's the way", compared to "that is the way". I have also been tole that it is wrong to use contractions in an essay but I don't consider the narration of a smutty story to be an essay so I use them.

 

[SummerMorning]

isn't it the Jones' car you're talkin' 'bout 'dere?

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Re: What's wrong with using possessives and contractios?

Hi, Harold. The first example sounds dumb. The second might be okay, depending on the context. Neither is a contraction, though.
...
Or, my brother's girlfriend's uncle's car's windshield was broken. That doesn't look right either, but I think it is.

As with any grammatically correct construction, the context is everything and I'm not complaining about not using possessives when the context doesn't call for them. It's the trend of avoiding them almost completely that makes a story sound stilted and formal.

Your second example is in passive voice and should be avoided for that reason alone. In more practical terms, the ownership of the car should probably be established separate from the fact that it has a broken window.

I didn't use any examples of contractions, because there are just too many to pick just one or two and avoidance of contractions doesn't stand out as clearly amateurish writing. Their absence only stand out in conjunction with other forms of "apostrophobia."

Like many others, I was also taught that they were a "bad thing" in a formal essay. Luckily, I was also taught that casual writing -- as most fiction is -- is different from Formal Writing, so I never quite developed a full-fledged aversion to contractions.

 

[Linbido]

That's a new one on me. Well, except for pro wrestling announcers--they always say, "Look at that shot to the head of Benoit!" rather than "Look at that shot to Benoit's head!" I have a notion that they want to avoid the sibilant in speaking.

In writing, perhaps some people are genuinely frightened of misusing the 's, since its proper placement seems to elude many people in the signmaking profession, but your guess is as good as mine.

Hey, found something:
http://www.wilbers.com/apostrophes.htm

MM

I'm one of those foregin folks, and I can tell you that yes, fear of misusing the dreaded ' is very real. Because there is nothing that trigger the grammar police (or shall we say Militant Execusion Grammar Squad?) like misusing the possessive aphostrophe or pronouns in general. Next to verb endings (I jump vs He jumps - could really do without that distinction) it's my most common and most often harshly reminded ("Get out of my face until you've learned to spell properly, bloody illiterate.") mistakes when dealing with the English language.

That, and my overuse of parenthesis.

 

[oggbashan]

I agree with KillerMuffin. They are trying too hard.

One thing about writers whose first language is NOT English - They have had to learn English Grammar as part of learning the language. I find that their grammar is better than a native English speaker sometimes pedantically so.

My grammar and sentence construction amuse my French friends. Whether writing or speaking my French has overtones of nineteenth century lectures.

Og

 

[Alex De Kok]

Eats, Shoots and Leaves

The Zero Tolerance Approach To Punctuation, by Lynne Truss, published by Profile Books at £9.99, ISBN 1-86197-612-7

Highly recommended, and the only book on my shelves which fits equally well into the Reference and Humour categories. Not only a good reference on punctuation (including the dreaded so-called grocer's apostrophe) but an entertaining read, too.

On the original point, the only time I can remember deliberately avoiding contractions was in my chain story piece for the 'Talisman' chain, Lucy McFey, which was set in the years following Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo and where I was trying to convery a sense of period.

Alex

 

[pop_54]

Yeppers

I agree with KillerMuffin. They are trying too hard.

One thing about writers whose first language is NOT English - They have had to learn English Grammar as part of learning the language. I find that their grammar is better than a native English speaker sometimes pedantically so.

My grammar and sentence construction amuse my French friends. Whether writing or speaking my French has overtones of nineteenth century lectures.

Og

I'm with oggie on this one, some people try too hard to write the so called 'proper English' as recommended by various, (mainly non-English), publications regarding same.

When these poor folks try too hard the result is a rather crap story, with loads of 'Proper English' But fuck all content.

We aren't writing technical publications, we aren't writing a Uni Essay. We're writing dirty stories, there's no need for 'proper English' in every sentence, or paragraph for that matter.

I for one use a lot of dialogue in my stories, you cannot write dialogue in proper English, it makes everyone of your characters sound like an upper class tit if you try. Or is it upper class tit's?

With folks from foreign parts where the good language isn't indigenous the use of the whole list of correct punctuation and grammar is to be expected, most are taught from the text book, not from real life, like wot we are.

I write with Word spell & Grammar check active, and I'm sorry to say I click on 'Ignore all' rather a lot as it attempts to stop me using Contractions and the like. I actually click Ignore more than any other function, I use a fair bit of slang, and a number of made up words in dialogue.

pops angle on it all, as seen from the end of Brighton Pier.

 

[Vincent E]

I generally avoid contractions when using the third person voice, but I always use contractions in dialogue and on the message board or IMs. I think that a lot of the "authors" at Lit are just in a rush to get a story posted. There seems to be a lack of proofreading - the hardest part of writing in my mind, or in the mind of me - by many "authors."

But the thing that really gets me is the guy who makes the signs for the supermarket. You know the one, he is the person who makes the 12 Items or Less signs. Boy, would I like to get that contract from him and make the necessary corrections.

 

[oggbashan]

Re: Yeppers

I'm with oggie on this one, some people try too hard to write the so called 'proper English' as recommended by various, (mainly non-English), publications regarding same.

I for one use a lot of dialogue in my stories, you cannot write dialogue in proper English, it makes everyone of your characters sound like an upper class tit if you try. Or is it upper class tit's?

Twits, pop, twits. Or Hoorray Henrys. But they do not speak proper English either. They swallow their endings and strangle their vowels.

I think what you mean is RP = Received Pronunciation - like wot BBC radio announcers were trained to use. "And here is the News read by Alvar Liddell".

Og

 

[angela146]

Re: Re: Yeppers

I think what you mean is RP = Received Pronunciation - like wot BBC radio announcers were trained to use. "And here is the News read by Alvar Liddell". Og

Og, would you please clarify some terminology for me: “The Kings English” vs. “RP” vs. “BBC English”.

I always thought that RP was the pronunciation that the royals used and that BBC English was more of a blending of the various regional “common” dialects.

Does RP = BBC English? If so, what is the term for "upper crust" or Royal English? Is there, in fact, a difference between the English spoken by David Dimbleby and the English spoken by HMQ and the various RHs?

Again, I may be all wet, but isn’t "The King's English" a pejorative directed at the early Hanoverian kings (e.g. George I-II)? An example would be "neither" and "either" with a long "i" instead of a long "e".

This former colonist would appreciate an edification.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Re: Yeppers

... and that BBC English was more of a blending of the various regional “common” dialects.

Ooh, Angela, can't wait to see what Gauche has to say.

Perdita

 

[Svenskaflicka]

why is it so common for novice writers to avoid simple English?

You've obviously never been in a Swedish school...

 

[Black Tulip]

Oh my god.

I wish you people would stop discussing topics like this.

That makes me want to read my stories again and again and again to check for whatever.

I'm resisting though.

I'd like to see you guys do my writing in my language.

Serious: I agree with what's said about learing the language by grammar. It's almost impossible to write as you speak if it's not your own language.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I write the way I speak, and I speak the way I write.

It's great fun to have a conversation with me. In any language.

 

[oggbashan]

Re: Re: Re: Yeppers

Og, would you please clarify some terminology for me: “The Kings English” vs. “RP” vs. “BBC English”.

I always thought that RP was the pronunciation that the royals used and that BBC English was more of a blending of the various regional “common” dialects.

Does RP = BBC English? If so, what is the term for "upper crust" or Royal English? Is there, in fact, a difference between the English spoken by David Dimbleby and the English spoken by HMQ and the various RHs?

Again, I may be all wet, but isn’t "The King's English" a pejorative directed at the early Hanoverian kings (e.g. George I-II)? An example would be "neither" and "either" with a long "i" instead of a long "e".

This former colonist would appreciate an edification.

"The King's English"* was an earlier term for what is now called Standard English. BBC English was Oxbridge (the pronunciation of Oxford or Cambridge graduates) which at the time (1930s/40s) was a variant of educated upper class English. BBC English of that time now sounds very "cut-glass" and impossibly formal.

RP = Received Pronunciation is the spoken language of lecturers and teachers. It can be understood by the majority of people in the UK even if the hearer speaks with a strong accent. RP is now generally used by the BBC but they do now allow regional variations to be broadcast.

The Queen does not speak RP. She speaks her own distinctive English which is RP with Sloane Square/County Set overtones. Her tone has varied over the years. Her pronunuciation at the time of her coronation would now seem ridiculous.

"Upper Class" English varies. The Belgravia set in London speak with affected accents and are distinctive. They drop endings "Huntin' ; shootin'; fishin';" They murder vowels "Dahling". The Queen's natural speech would be a milder version of that but she has modified it to be closer to RP.

Estuary English is that spoken in the Thames Estuary i.e. Kent, Essex, Greater London. It is a milder form of Cockney and the local dialects.

Almost all UK citizens can speak RP even if it is a greater task for some. They should all be able to understand it.

I hope that helps.

Og

*This was a book by Fowler, the UK equivalent of Strunk & White.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I use contractions, especially in dialogue, like Vincent E, and they give my MSWord Spellchecker fits. It calls me on "would've", "could've", and even "there'll".

I'm always impressed with how sensitive the British are to language: accent, dialect, pronunciation. I guess you can tell a lot about a person from the way they speak. I would have thought regional accent and dialect would have kind of died out by now. It's not happening though, is it?

---dr.M.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I use contractions, especially in dialogue, like Vincent E, and they give my MSWord Spellchecker fits. It calls me on "would've", "could've", and even "there'll".


---dr.M.

My spellchecker has apparently given up on criticizing me on contractions except it still objects to using a contraction for "it is". I never use "could've or would've in narration and in dialogue, I say coulda or woulda. Spellcheck objected to that quite strenuously until I added these short forms to its dictionary.

 

[shereads]

But the thing that really gets me is the guy who makes the signs for the supermarket. You know the one, he is the person who makes the 12 Items or Less signs. Boy, would I like to get that contract from him and make the necessary corrections.

You are so right. An express lane should have no more than 10 items or less.

 

[Weird Harold]

My spellchecker has apparently given up on criticizing me on contractions except it still objects to using a contraction for "it is".

My grammar check doesn't object to contractions because I told not to. It doen't object to the wrong number of spaces between sentences either becaue I turned that off, too.

There is a long list of checks that are selectable in MS Word's grammar check and most of the "erroneous faults" people object to are on that list.

It still sometimes flags "its" and "it's" under the "commonly confused words" check -- which I do want it to continue checking (even though it doesn't do a very good job on that check.)

 

[Dirt Man]

Well the last time I commented on a thread I was told, not unkindly, that that person could have done without a lecture. So to be short and sweet, and to the point. I write it the way the character would say it when I'm writing dialog, and in between that I write using the English grammar that I was taught in school here in America. So far I've gotten no complaints, other than my spell checker throws a fit when I hit the Ignore All button.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man