What's the end game in eastern Ukraine?

[renard_ruse]

Ok, I know that most of you are moral monsters who could care less how many freedom activists are slaughtered by the cowardly air strikes of the fascist Ukraine government in the Donbas. You're probably all warm inside thinking about how many Donbas freedom fighters have been killed already, especially those injured activists blown up by cowardly air attacks on their way to the hospital. I understand that. Woohoo, kill the Donbas patriots, they are "pro-Russia." Yippee, ok.

BUT, what exactly is the longterm plan here? Does the US/Poroshenko regime have a plan for actually winning back the hearts and minds of the people of eastern Ukraine? Because even if the majority didn't support federalization before the Kiev government attacks, they almost certainly do now. They can see how the westerners think of them, as rats to be exterminated. They won't forget how the Kiev regime used bombs instead of negotiating.

Make no mistake, whether the majority wanted independence, to join Russia, federalization within Ukraine, or to remain in a centralized Ukraine, this was a region that always supported the Party of Regions. The main opposition was the Communists. This area never supported the western parties, or trusted the western Ukraine nationalists, the people now running the country. That was BEFORE this violent military operating against their region.

Even if the US/Poroshenko regime crushes the DPR and LR, how can it ever gain legitimacy with the people in this region after all that has happened? Eastern Ukraine will be a nightmare for the Kiev regime and its US/EU/NATO handlers for decades to come.

 

[pointless]

you need another bit, dude. maybe go back to obvious closet-case thing. it really worked for you.

 

[doctor_insanus]

http://f.kulfoto.com/pic/0001/0015/47t2114508.jpg

Trying way too hard, dude. Your posts reek of desperation.

 

[doctor_insanus]

you need another bit, dude. maybe go back to obvious closet-case thing. it really worked for you.

What he said.

 

[renard_ruse]

What he said.

Again, I know you could care less about the slaughter going on in the Donbas. I understand that.

Can you tell me what the endgame is? How will the Kiev regime (ie the US) win the hearts and minds of the millions of people in these regions?

 

[renard_ruse]

you need another bit, dude. maybe go back to obvious closet-case thing. it really worked for you.

Sorry, Rory. I will always be here to annoy you.

 

[Amberchgo]

They give Obama another Nobel Peace prize?

 

[phrodeau]

http://i-uv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/WhirledPeas1.png

 

[renard_ruse]

The US will be bailing out Ukraine for decades to come, including its efforts to pacify and win back the public in the eastern half of the country. US taxpayers will have to shell out billions for this mess.

If you pay taxes, this should at least bother you.

 

[pointless]

i didn't tell you to leave, you illiterate dunce. i told you to get a new bit because this one sucks.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Ok, I know that most of you are moral monsters who could care less how many freedom activists are slaughtered by the cowardly air strikes of the fascist Ukraine government in the Donbas. You're probably all warm inside thinking about how many Donbas freedom fighters have been killed already, especially those injured activists blown up by cowardly air attacks on their way to the hospital. I understand that. Woohoo, kill the Donbas patriots, they are "pro-Russia." Yippee, ok.

BUT, what exactly is the longterm plan here? Does the US/Poroshenko regime have a plan for actually winning back the hearts and minds of the people of eastern Ukraine? Because even if the majority didn't support federalization before the Kiev government attacks, they almost certainly do now. They can see how the westerners think of them, as rats to be exterminated. They won't forget how the Kiev regime used bombs instead of negotiating.

Make no mistake, whether the majority wanted independence, to join Russia, federalization within Ukraine, or to remain in a centralized Ukraine, this was a region that always supported the Party of Regions. The main opposition was the Communists. This area never supported the western parties, or trusted the western Ukraine nationalists, the people now running the country. That was BEFORE this violent military operating against their region.

Even if the US/Poroshenko regime crushes the DPR and LR, how can it ever gain legitimacy with the people in this region after all that has happened? Eastern Ukraine will be a nightmare for the Kiev regime and its US/EU/NATO handlers for decades to come.

Because I'm a pal, I'm going to make your utterly pointless and moribund thread more interesting, Renny.

This is your above text translated into Portuguese.

Ok , eu sei que a maioria de vocês são monstros morais que poderiam se importar menos quantos ativistas pela liberdade são abatidos pelos ataques aéreos covardes do governo fascista Ucrânia no Donbas . Você provavelmente está tudo quente por dentro pensando quantos Donbas combatentes da liberdade já foram mortos, especialmente os ativistas feridos explodido por ataques aéreos covardes em seu caminho para o hospital. Eu entendo isso. Woohoo , mate os patriotas Donbas , eles são " pró- Rússia. " Yippee , ok .

Mas, o que exatamente é o plano de longo prazo aqui? Será que o regime EUA / Poroshenko tem um plano para realmente ganhar de volta os corações e mentes do povo do leste da Ucrânia ? Porque mesmo que a maioria não apoiar federalização antes dos ataques do governo Kiev , eles quase certamente fazer agora . Eles podem ver como os ocidentais pensam deles , como ratos para ser exterminado . Eles não vão esquecer de como o regime de Kiev usaram bombas em vez de negociar .

Não se engane, se a maioria queria a independência , para se juntar a Rússia, a federalização na Ucrânia , ou permanecer em uma Ucrânia centralizado , esta era uma região que sempre apoiou o Partido das Regiões. A principal oposição foram os comunistas . Esta área nunca apoiou as partes ocidentais, ou de confiança dos ocidentais Ucrânia nacionalistas, as pessoas agora em execução no país. Isso foi antes de esta operação militar violenta contra a sua região.

Mesmo que o regime EUA / Poroshenko esmaga a DPR e LR , como pode nunca ganhar legitimidade com as pessoas nesta região, após tudo o que aconteceu ? Eastern Ucrânia vai ser um pesadelo para o regime de Kiev e seus manipuladores EUA / UE / NATO para as próximas décadas .

This is the Portuguese text above translated into Japanese:

[OK]を、私はあなたのほとんどは、多くの自由活動家は、ウクライナドンバスにおけるファシスト政府の臆病な空爆によって殺害されているかあまり気にしなかった道徳のモンスターを知っている。おそらく、ドンバスの自由の戦士が病院に行く途中で臆病な空爆で爆破負傷活動家を含む、殺害されているかを考えて内部のすべての暖かいね。私はそれを理解しています。 WOOHOO 、彼らは、ドンバス愛国者を殺す「親ロシア。 」 yipeの強調形を、 [OK]をクリックします。

しかし、長期的な計画では、ここで正確に何ですか？米国/ Poroshenkoスキームは、実際にはウクライナ東部の人々の心を取り戻すための計画を持っているのだろうか？ほとんどがキエフの政府の攻撃の前に連邦化をサポートしていないにもかかわらず、彼らはほぼ確実になりましたからである。彼らは西洋人が絶滅するラットと考えることを確認することができます。彼らはキエフの政権が代わりに交渉使わパンプスか忘れることはありません。

大多数が独立を望んでいる場合、間違いなく、ロシアに参加するには、ウクライナの連邦化、または中央ウクライナに滞在、これは常に地域の党を支えてきた地域だった。野党は共産た。このエリアには西を支持していない、またはウェスタンウクライナ民族主義政党、今では国内を実行している人々を信頼したことがない。それは彼らの領域に対するこの暴力的軍事作戦の前にあった。

米国/ Poroshenko政権は、起こったことすべての後に、この地域の人々と正当性を得ることはできないとして、 DPRとLRを押しつぶすたとしても？東部ウクライナ、今後数十年にわたってキエフと彼のハンドラ米国/欧州/ NATOの政権にとっては悪夢となります。

This is the Japanese text above translated into Dutch:

De meesten van jullie , de gratis veel activisten , ik weet dat het monster van moraal die niet kon schelen of zijn gedood door de laffe bomaanslag fascistische regering in Oekraïne Donbass , de [ OK ] . Het waarschijnlijk helemaal warm van binnen denken inclusief de ontploffing gewond activisten met een timide luchtaanvallen , of zijn gedood in de loop van de vrijheidsstrijders van Donbass is naar het ziekenhuis . Ik begrijp het. WOOHOO , zullen ze op de [ OK ] , de nadruk vorm doden de Donbass patriot van " pro-Russische . " Yipe .

Echter , op de lange termijn plan , wat precies hier ? US / Poroshenko regeling , vraag ik me af heeft plannen om de harten van de mensen van het oosten van Oekraïne in de praktijk terug te winnen ? Hoewel de meeste ondersteunen niet de federatie voor de aanval van de regering van Kiev , want zij nu bijna zeker . Ze kunnen er zeker van zijn dat u overwegen om ratten westerlingen tot uitsterven . Je hoeft niet te vergeten of te pompen toediening van Kiev wordt gebruikt onderhandeling plaats ze .

Als de meerderheid wil onafhankelijkheid , zonder twijfel , om deel te nemen in Rusland, Oekraïne verblijven in het centrum of de federatie , van Oekraïne , dit was het gebied dat de partij hebben gesteund in de regio te allen tijde. Oppositie was communist. Het ondersteunt het Westen op dit gebied , of West-Oekraïne nationalistische partij , heb je geen vertrouwen in de mensen die het land nu . Was in de voorkant van deze gewelddadige militaire operaties tegen hun gebied het.

En zo kan niet na alles wat er gebeurd is , om legitimiteit te verkrijgen met de mensen in de regio , de Verenigde Staten / Poroshenko overheid , zelfs verpletteren de LR en DPR ? Oost-Oekraïne , zal een nachtmerrie voor de administratie van de handler VS / Europa / NAVO en zijn Kiev voor de komende decennia zijn.

Aaaaand let's spin it back into English and see how it results:

Most of you , free , many activists , I know that the sample of morality that did not care or are slain by the cowardly bombing fascist government in Ukraine Donbass , the [ OK ] . It probably all warm inside thinking including the blast wounded activists with a timid air attacks , or are slain in the course of the freedom fighters of Donbass to the hospital . I see. WOOHOO , they will press the [ OK ] , the emphasis shape kill the Donbass patriot " pro-Russian . " Yipe .

However, the long- term plan , what exactly here ? U.S. / Poroshenko control , I wonder has plans into practice to win back the hearts of the people of eastern Ukraine Although most do not support the federation for the attack of the government of Kiev , for they are almost certain. They can be sure that you consider rats westerners to extinction . You do not have to forget or to pump administration of Kiev is used is negotiated them .

If the majority wants independence , no doubt , to participate in Russia , Ukraine to stay in the center of the Federation , Ukraine , part this was the area that the party supported in the region at all times . Opposition was a communist . It supports the West in this area , or Western Ukraine nationalist party , you do not trust the people that the country now . Was in front of this massive military operations against their area .

And so can not after all that has happened , to gain legitimacy with the people in the region, the United States / Poroshenko government, even crush the LR and DPR ? Eastern Ukraine , will be a nightmare for the administration of the handler U.S. / Europe / NATO and Kiev for the coming decades .

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4iwt6jpNo1qbjwbn.gif

 

[Que]

Ok...two things, Zumi...

One, you function with alcohol far better than I...I can not at the moment cut and paste well, and cannot comprehend the OP, in any of the languages, and am unable to process the differences between the first Engles', and the end result Englaisish stuff.

And two...you are at least 3 beers ahead of me..

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Ok...two things, Zumi...

One, you function with alcohol far better than I...I can not at the moment cut and paste well, and cannot comprehend the OP, in any of the languages, and am unable to process the differences between the first Engles', and the end result Englaisish stuff.

And two...you are at least 3 beers ahead of me..

Oh, I'm not drinking beers right now...

http://drinkinform.com.ua/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/bombay-sapphire.jpg

 

[Byron In Exile]

you need another bit, dude. maybe go back to obvious closet-case thing. it really worked for you.

Amen.

 

[Byron In Exile]

you need another bit, dude. maybe go back to obvious closet-case thing. it really worked for you.

Basically.

The game is over.

As for the "closet-case" bit, "everyone must find their own path."

Is that sufficiently philosophical?

Or do I need to embroider it a bit?

 

[Byron In Exile]

I could elaborate and make everyone stop posting.

I have an extensive history of this, if you'd care to research it.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Also, there's nothing more boring than "Putin kicks Obama's ass again."

It's like prison rape. Seen one, you've seen them all.

Let's leave this subject.

 

[Byron In Exile]

It's not pleasant.

 

[Que]

Oh, I'm not drinking beers right now...

http://drinkinform.com.ua/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/bombay-sapphire.jpg

I took my first drink ever just before my 44th? maybe. I have slowly worked my way through the (limited) top shelf at my local bar where they sell more bud-light per capita than any other county in my state.

Bud light tastes like beer smells if you added a boot full of water.

I am trying to acquire the taste. People the world over extoll its virtues. I am drinking guiness extra stout at the moment.

The local patrons are predictably annoyed with my running annalysis and commentary on my experimintaion..

for example...do not mix adderol and hynotic, whatever that was.

They prefer me on jameson reserve...i get all philosophical..which means i SLOOWWW the fuck down..

On Bacardi, I can still do Rainman shit with numbers.

For some reason, I have never tried gin.

I will add it to my to-try list.

 

[snugglestruggle]

I could never acquire a taste for Gin and I've tried.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

I could never acquire a taste for Gin and I've tried.

You just haven't had the right gin yet, is all. I wasn't a big fan of it until recently, when I tried some locally distilled brands with unique flavors...and now I can't put the stuff down.

 

[Que]

I think I am confusing gin with a scant remembrance about "bathtub gin" which as I remember back wasn't gin at all, rather it was (grain alcohol maybe?) "flavored" with (juniper berries?) to give it a gin flavor.

What was the mash gin started as?

After that distilled like whiskey?

You said flavors? Not like unrelated to the alcohol flavors like for example a pepper vodka or some such...

The people around here when not swilling bid light drink jack. Tastes like licking a briquette.

An old timer in a turn of the century bar (I think he came with the place) talked me into a nice glen morangie one time..One of thse things that took a couple of sips to apreciate the notes.

Scotch always makes me feel like a kid that has just gotten into the cheeses he doesnt yet understand.

 

[renard_ruse]

In other words, as I suspected, the slaughter in the Donbas doesn't upset you folks at all.

Nobody died in Crimea*. Hundreds have already died in Donbas, in Odessa, and elsewhere in eastern Ukraine. The US "stands fully behind Poroshenko" according to the Obama administration. The Republicans in Congress say Poroshenko hasn't gone far enough. Why are we against negotiations?

(*- or at least for all intents and purposes it was peaceful)

 

[oggbashan]

... Why are we against negotiations?

...

We might not be. The separatists certainly are. They have refused to discuss anything with anyone, just extending their armed occupation.

The split between East and West Ukraine is historic. The events during and immediately after the Second World War are still raw wounds in that country.

The Yalta agreement with Stalin meant that Ukrainians, mainly from the West of that country, who fought 'on the wrong side' i.e. for Germany, wanting independence from the Soviet Union, were handed back to the USSR by the US and UK. Many 'disappeared'.

The previous President of the Ukraine, the one who fled, was a (remarks deleted as unprintable) who was for himself and not for his country.

But the 'revolution' brought together different and incompatible groups. Some wanted freedom from Russian interference in Ukraine. Some just wanted honest government. But SOME of those in the East saw the 'revolution' as a threat to their Russian heritage.

As for Russia? They needed their Black Sea port in Crimea.

The country is a mess and people are afraid of each other. The armed rebellion in the East is oppressing their own people as well as opposing the Kiev government.

What is needed is reconciliation. That isn't possible when unidentified armed men are expanding their control of infrastructure in the East.

Negotiations are possible, but not when a shooting war is still happening.

How much influence Russia has over the armed groups? I don't know. I suspect Russia has got some influence, has provided arms and expertise and possibly even manpower, but it is possible that Russia's influence is far less than the West thinks they have. Frightened men don't listen to reason.

 

[Byron In Exile]

http://f.kulfoto.com/pic/0001/0015/47t2114508.jpg

lolol!