What's in a Promise

[Angedesoleil]

This is a topic I've hit upon a few times in my adult life. It seems that there are a few very distinct attitudes that people have towards making and keeping "promises."
It was really quite eye opening to me when Ifound out that not everyone means what *I* mean when I make a promise. It has also had a profound impact on my ability to trust a partner. This is why I've placed this conversation in the BDSM Cafe and not in the GeneralBoard, Iwant to know how others within this lifestyle and this context view promises, both making them and keeping them.

So:

1)What is a promise to you when you make one?
Is it "I will/will not do this thing. You can take my word to the bank. My word is my bond. I've thought through life and such and I feel reasonabily confident that I can and will do whatever it takes to keep this **commitment**"
or
"I meant it when I said it in the circumstance that existed. Life and situations change, so it is very possible this 'promise' will too."
or something other than those?

2) When you hear a promise, do you
rely on it, based upon the faith and trust you have in the other person, and lock it away knowing and believing that it will be kept.
or
take it with a grain of salt, people are fickle and life gets in the way. They had good intentions, but who really knows if people will come through anyway?

3) Do you think your attitude towards both of those ideas affects the depth of D/s that you practice from either side of the slash?

4)If you were in a relationship with someone who had a differing view on what a promise/commitment means ...how would it affect your ability to rely on them or trust them? How would it affect your sense of responsibility if you come to know that they depend on your word far more than you intended it by use of the word "promise".

5) Do you think that word is thrown around too often?

6) Do you discuss the concept of what a promise means when you are getting to know a partner? What if you find out they have a different concept of what it means...does that affect your thought process with regard to them?

7) anything else?


Thank you for your time and thought. I truly appreciate it.

 

[SoulAssasin247]

This is a topic I've hit upon a few times in my adult life. It seems that there are a few very distinct attitudes that people have towards making and keeping "promises."
It was really quite eye opening to me when Ifound out that not everyone means what *I* mean when I make a promise. It has also had a profound impact on my ability to trust a partner. This is why I've placed this conversation in the BDSM Cafe and not in the GeneralBoard, Iwant to know how others within this lifestyle and this context view promises, both making them and keeping them.

So:

1)What is a promise to you when you make one?
Is it "I will/will not do this thing. You can take my word to the bank. My word is my bond. I've thought through life and such and I feel reasonabily confident that I can and will do whatever it takes to keep this **commitment**"
or
"I meant it when I said it in the circumstance that existed. Life and situations change, so it is very possible this 'promise' will too."
or something other than those?

2) When you hear a promise, do you
rely on it, based upon the faith and trust you have in the other person, and lock it away knowing and believing that it will be kept.
or
take it with a grain of salt, people are fickle and life gets in the way. They had good intentions, but who really knows if people will come through anyway?

3) Do you think your attitude towards both of those ideas affects the depth of D/s that you practice from either side of the slash?

4)If you were in a relationship with someone who had a differing view on what a promise/commitment means ...how would it affect your ability to rely on them or trust them? How would it affect your sense of responsibility if you come to know that they depend on your word far more than you intended it by use of the word "promise".

5) Do you think that word is thrown around too often?

6) Do you discuss the concept of what a promise means when you are getting to know a partner? What if you find out they have a different concept of what it means...does that affect your thought process with regard to them?

7) anything else?


Thank you for your time and thought. I truly appreciate it.

Many don't understand the trust and bond of a promise and use it to get what they want. One who understands a promise realizes that, when you give a promise it's a stamp on your integrity, one will rarely make promises and will do everything in their power to keep it. A man of integrity wouldn't make promises he can't live up to and will do everything in his power to live up to it. If you're already a man of integrity, then there is no need for promises, because your word is as good as done.


1. Promise is a contract signed with your reputation and integrity as collateral. It's very important and living up to a promise shows how serious you really are
2. If I value a person I am hopeful that they will live up to it, but am skeptical, not many actually keep their promise.
3.Integrity and the trust of your word means everything when you're being trusted with a woman's body, heart, mind and soul. She has to trust" believe, know and understand that you will not harm her and only want to expand her pleasure and each other's bond.
4. I wouldn't be with someone I don't trust, so I wouldn't even have that issue. I have no issue in anyone especially a lover expecting the highest expectations of anything I say I will do, promise or just making a statement.
5. Most definitely thrown around too often, usually people who always promises needs to make such those declarations, because their word isn't enough. Some people use that word when they want or need something, when that want or need is fulfilled many don't live up to it
6. No because there should be no need to, once I am with a lover the trust is already established


7. I posted my thoughts above the Questions



Edited to Add: I do not live a BDSM lifestyle, only answering questions from a male point of view and that of my personal experiences.

 

[Angedesoleil]

Thank you, SA. I appreciate the articulate thorough answer.

Anyone on the other side willing to help me understand that perspective.

I guess my difficulty is: if a promise is subject to change, what is the point even? What does it convey? I dont see the difference between it and just a statement of intent. When I solicit a promise it is because I'm seeking to lean on it. Hold it as solid support.

There may be a culture difference I've adopted as well. In Arabic we dont say " I promise", there are two phrases that show varying degree of intent, both have a built in mechanism for acknowledging *acts of God beyond our control*.

Rabin a sehil: = I intend to, but we'll see.
InshaAllah= I'm going to do this as long as it is in my ability. Intent wont change.

The former I dont take as a promise, the latter I do.

 

[SissySalina]

Promise is a bond of word

1)What is a promise to you when you make one?
Is it "I will/will not do this thing. You can take my word to the bank. My word is my bond. I've thought through life and such and I feel reasonabily confident that I can and will do whatever it takes to keep this **commitment**"

A promise is personal word.


2) When you hear a promise, do you
rely on it, based upon the faith and trust you have in the other person, and lock it away knowing and believing that it will be kept.

Anyone's word is as good as they are.

3) Do you think your attitude towards both of those ideas affects the depth of D/s that you practice from either side of the slash?

Most defiantly, The biggest thing in a D/s relationship is TRUST which is backed by a persons word.

4)If you were in a relationship with someone who had a differing view on what a promise/commitment means ...how would it affect your ability to rely on them or trust them? How would it affect your sense of responsibility if you come to know that they depend on your word far more than you intended it by use of the word "promise".

sissy does not have a relationship with someone that cannot be trusted to keep their word. If they have no honor in their word there is no relationship.

5) Do you think that word is thrown around too often?

Only by people that have no respect for their word.

6) Do you discuss the concept of what a promise means when you are getting to know a partner? What if you find out they have a different concept of what it means...does that affect your thought process with regard to them?

This discussion is early on in any relationship that sissy has, if you do not keep your word then sissy does not trust you so there can be no relationship.

7) anything else?

In the D/s relationship that sissy has the basis is TRUST, If you put you life in the hands of another you must trust them explicitly and know they honor their commitments.

 

[KamaKamaSutra]

Thank you, SA. I appreciate the articulate thorough answer.

Anyone on the other side willing to help me understand that perspective.

I guess my difficulty is: if a promise is subject to change, what is the point even? What does it convey? I dont see the difference between it and just a statement of intent. When I solicit a promise it is because I'm seeking to lean on it. Hold it as solid support.

There may be a culture difference I've adopted as well. In Arabic we dont say " I promise", there are two phrases that show varying degree of intent, both have a built in mechanism for acknowledging *acts of God beyond our control*.

Rabin a sehil: = I intend to, but we'll see.
InshaAllah= I'm going to do this as long as it is in my ability. Intent wont change.

The former I dont take as a promise, the latter I do.

You make a good point here, English lacks the multiple forms of the same concept. Many languages have different words for love, promise, sad, happy depending on the intent. While you can use other words, English speakers tend to use one word to define many things. I think promise falls to this too.

It's one of the reason's I don't promise anything. I never say the word, because I know that as soon as I do something will change my ability to make it a reality. So I guess I hold the world promise to something higher than I answered in the poll. I won't say it unless I'm 100% sure of it.

 

[Angedesoleil]

See, that's kinda what I'm seeing right now, I'd like to get **quite** a few more replies before rushing to interpretation, but it seems right now dominant go more with "shit happens I tried" and submissives say " but I counted on it." Yes, it's not anywhere NEAR statistically significant yet, but 4/5 dominamts "meant it when I said it" and 3/4 submissives "my word is my vow."
That feels important.

I guess my follow up is that I dont WANT to change my trust level in my person's word. That's a hard need. If he says it, I need to believe it. So I guess in future this is kinda a relationship deal breaker for me... if you cant have the forethought and strength of character to be a man of your word, I'm not the one for you.

NO NOT ***YOU*** we have established that there are extreme extenuating circumstances that put you and us right now out of this discussion.

I guess my point is, yeah, life happens. I judge based upon the effort put forth. If you acted in an effort to keep your promise and an act of God intervened, I get that. But if it was just words meant in the heat of the moment that in the light of day mean... water... no. I need to be able to rely on things.

They give me peace and comfort. If they arent reliable then that throws me back into open air free fall again.

 

[AlwaysFara]

See, that's kinda what I'm seeing right now, I'd like to get **quite** a few more replies before rushing to interpretation, but it seems right now dominant go more with "shit happens I tried" and submissives say " but I counted on it." Yes, it's not anywhere NEAR statistically significant yet, but 4/5 dominamts "meant it when I said it" and 3/4 submissives "my word is my vow."
That feels important.

I guess my follow up is that I dont WANT to change my trust level in my person's word. That's a hard need. If he says it, I need to believe it. So I guess in future this is kinda a relationship deal breaker for me... if you cant have the forethought and strength of character to be a man of your word, I'm not the one for you.

NO NOT ***YOU*** we have established that there are extreme extenuating circumstances that put you and us right now out of this discussion.

I guess my point is, yeah, life happens. I judge based upon the effort put forth. If you acted in an effort to keep your promise and an act of God intervened, I get that. But if it was just words meant in the heat of the moment that in the light of day mean... water... no. I need to be able to rely on things.

They give me peace and comfort. If they arent reliable then that throws me back into open air free fall again.

With trust. If one person is out, you both are. Trust is 2 way. A promise is 2 agreeing to one thing.

 

[cookiecat]

I dunno. Those are high expectations.

Life happens. Shit happens. When I make a promise, I have every intention of keeping it and I'll try my damndest to to keep it. I strive to be a trustworthy, honest person.

But life happens. Shit happens. I think it then becomes about communication and compromise.

Life is generally never that black and white. I promised my husband to love him in sickness and in health. I did that. I didn't know about "manual extractions" during bouts of constipation or having to lift him up to get him dressed when I made that promise. I stuck to it.

I made a promise to be faithful to him. I think I was. I goofed around online - does that count as cheating?? I didn't know we wouldn't be intimate for years when I made that promise. How long was I required to keep my promise?

I want to think my friends, my family, someone I fall in love with will keep their promises. I'd also like to think I would be understanding if someone I loved came to me and was honest about why he or she couldn't keep that promise.

Perhaps that's the key. Honesty. Clear communication. If someone fucks around with that - if they are cowardly and scared about coming clean - then that's a whole 'nother thing.

Broken promises without honest explanation, without some sort of acknowledgement that this sucks, offering an apology, a compromise, asking "what can I do because I know this isn't what I promised" -- then it's just shitty, immature, selfish behavior.

 

[cascadiabound]

I dunno. Those are high expectations.

Life happens. Shit happens. When I make a promise, I have every intention of keeping it and I'll try my damndest to to keep it. I strive to be a trustworthy, honest person.

But life happens. Shit happens. I think it then becomes about communication and compromise.

Life is generally never that black and white. [....]

Perhaps that's the key. Honesty. Clear communication. If someone fucks around with that - if they are cowardly and scared about coming clean - then that's a whole 'nother thing.

Broken promises without honest explanation, without some sort of acknowledgement that this sucks, offering an apology, a compromise, asking "what can I do because I know this isn't what I promised" -- then it's just shitty, immature, selfish behavior.

This all rings about right to me. I would have been much more absolute about what a promise meant 30 years ago. But such is the passage of time, life experiences and yes, that few things are truly black and white.

As such, I have gotten more cautious about offering "promises"

My word is good. I mean what I say. I strive to be a good and honest person. Reliable and true in all things. But life is damn complicated. And things out of our control do happen.

 

[AlwaysFara]

This all rings about right to me. I would have been much more absolute about what a promise meant 30 years ago. But such is the passage of time, life experiences and yes, that few things are truly black and white.

As such, I have gotten more cautious about offering "promises"

My word is good. I mean what I say. I strive to be a good and honest person. Reliable and true in all things. But life is damn complicated. And things out of our control do happen.

This is when we have to look at intentions, and feelings at the time.
I agree, completely.

 

[Angedesoleil]

Yes, but in all of those three replies is one concept: a genuine intent to do what it takes to keep that promise not just if it's easy. I just dont like the lasez faire feeling to "life happens". Again this is not about a specific circumstance. I like what cookie said about honest communication acknowledging that a promise wasnt kept, apology, and an effort to compromise or help. That I respect. Just throwing hands up and saying in essence "shit happens, sorry life sucks. You shouldn't count on something that could always change" just doesnt sit right with me. It sits like words said in a passionate furor that hold no more weight than the air with which they were said. Yes, they were ABSOLUTELY meant when said... but if they arent backed up with effort...

Like I said I like cookie's comment.

Cas: I agree that life changes and age does tend to soften the edges of life.

I guess the follow up is: how much weight to you put on a promise made to you?

For instance: a promise to be there for someone when a parent who is terminally ill dies. Would you count on that promise? Sure if the person has a tragic house fire at the same time *shit happens* but shy of that?

 

[LostGirlTink]

If I make a promise I’m going to do everything in my power to keep it.
I don’t make promises I know I can’t keep or that anything short of extraordinary circumstances would keep me from keeping.
A promise is pretty close to a vow for me, and I know I take promises more seriously than most people that their vows.

Life getting in the way of a promise is bullshit. If you meant it, you should at least attempt to honor it.

YMMV

 

[barefootgirl69]

I have been here pondering this thread since yesterday.

I don't think most people go into a promise with an intent not to bother keeping it, but there are some that do and I acknowledge that fact.

At the moment, I'm still not sure what I want to say except what Cookie said about expectations was right along the path I was thinking.

Are our expectations different for relationships IRL as opposed to our lives with someone online? I don't know. I'm still pondering. I know I take most LIT promises with a grain of salt, especially if he's in a relationship and making me promises.

Thankfully, there was only one who hurt me with his lies in that respect, I tended to believe him because he was single.

But, promises are definitely hard to keep in a world, life, relationship that is ever evolving/growing... and sometimes, deteriorating. I don't doubt that there are always circumstances where it's easier to walk away than keep the promises I made, and one of those would be my mental health. If I've promised something, I will keep it for as long as I can...but if that promise puts me in harms way either mentally or physically, well... I come first. My children come first.

For instance, I promised to be a faithful wife in sickness and in health til death parted us. I kept that promise, but added another after the fourth infidelity on his part. If it happens again, I'm done. I kept that last promise, but not the first --- because things changed.

People change. Honesty does matter. Conversations should be happening consistently.

 

[Angedesoleil]

I have been here pondering this thread since yesterday.

I don't think most people go into a promise with an intent not to bother keeping it, but there are some that do and I acknowledge that fact.

At the moment, I'm still not sure what I want to say except what Cookie said about expectations was right along the path I was thinking.

Are our expectations different for relationships IRL as opposed to our lives with someone online? I don't know. I'm still pondering. I know I take most LIT promises with a grain of salt, especially if he's in a relationship and making me promises.

Thankfully, there was only one who hurt me with his lies in that respect, I tended to believe him because he was single.

But, promises are definitely hard to keep in a world, life, relationship that is ever evolving/growing... and sometimes, deteriorating. I don't doubt that there are always circumstances where it's easier to walk away than keep the promises I made, and one of those would be my mental health. If I've promised something, I will keep it for as long as I can...but if that promise puts me in harms way either mentally or physically, well... I come first. My children come first.

For instance, I promised to be a faithful wife in sickness and in health til death parted us. I kept that promise, but added another after the fourth infidelity on his part. If it happens again, I'm done. I kept that last promise, but not the first --- because things changed.

People change. Honesty does matter. Conversations should be happening consistently.

I agree with your last bit because your vow was based upon the mutual understanding and commitment to be faithful to eachother, constant, and true. If his vow was broken he broke that commitment.

 

[Chewbacca79]

Really interesting questions, OP.

I'm firmly in the "shit can change, life can happen" camp.

If it is a relationship where you're TOGTHER, as in in person, then when shit goes south, it is easier to support each other.

Online, is much harder. I was in a situation with a lady online a while back. We had met several times and it was going well. She "promised" me that her schedule would allow her to be free at weekends so we could meet regularly and perhaps begin a relationship.

Her employer had other ideas and changed her hours. She even provided proof. It hurt like hell and part of me was pissed, pissed that she promised and that she didn't fight it.

But what could she do? She lives in an area where well paid jobs are scarce. She trained for her work and enjoys it. She wasn't given a choice over the hours.

We argued - I was hurt. We worked out that the next time she would have a full weekend off would be over four months away. My job doesn't allow me to regularly take time off in the week, so it kind of scuppered us before we ever got going.

I understand it now. It hurts, but REAL LIFE got in the way. I could not ask her to turn away from her career, so accepted it. We still talk regularly but as friends. We both agreed that the promise of what we had only for it to be taken away did serious damage.

One of those things I guess.

 

[Dreamliner]

Hi Angedesoleil

A promise, for me is never provided lightly, and importantly you must know you can deliver on it, if you give it.

Living life with a partner, you both have expectations of each other, this does not need a promise. I assume people in relationships openly talk and discuss with each other; likes, desires, needs...this all leads to confidence and trust with a partner, without them, you may have a problem, especially in a D/s relationship.

Life is never static, and a relationship is the same. Look at the technology revolution that we are currently living in. Cast your mind back a few decades, The Jetsons, Star Trek and a few other tv programmes, Now, a lot of what was considered fantasy then, is part of main stream life. We change with this new technology and impact on our lives. So our relationship needs to accommodate these as they influence us and our partner.

I separate a "promise" from normal expectations. We do need though confidence and trust, in a partner, to have a healthy relationship.

 

[cookiecat]

So I had to look up what laissez faire meant. Ok, I know what it means but in this context, I had to take a step back and not take offense. So I looked up laissez faire:

a policy or attitude of letting things take their own course, without interfering.

Sometimes having that attitude that things take their own course is a good one. I've learned the very very hard way that I control nothing but me. My reactions, my words, my emotions.

In your comment, Ange, you said a promise is

a genuine intent to do what it takes to keep that promise not just if it's easy. I just dont like the lasez faire feeling to "life happens"

You wrote a few sentences later:

just throwing hands up and saying in essence "shit happens, sorry life sucks. You shouldn't count on something that could always change" just doesnt sit right with me. It sits like words said in a passionate furor that hold no more weight than the air with which they were said. Yes, they were ABSOLUTELY meant when said... but if they arent backed up with effort...

I'm going to say that if any of us are in a situation where a promise is made in passionate furor, it's on each one of us to step back and say, hmmm.... I need to see if - in the the light of day - this promise can hold up.

I can't speak for anyone else who posted here but I'm guessing none of us said you shouldn't count on something because shit happens and life sucks.

You give the example of promising someone I'l be there when his/her parent dies. Yes, I'd be there. What if my kid got sick? What if work called me in on the same day I promised to be there? What if, what if what if???? What if my car broke down? What if I'm in a mental head space I just can't deal with it on the day I promised to be there?

I go back to saying nothing is black and white. Sorry kid, here's some advil. I made this promise. Sorry boss, I'm not coming in. Hmm. It's going to cost me $50 to uber to her house.

Every scenario is different.

In an earlier post, you said

InshaAllah= I'm going to do this as long as it is in my ability. Intent wont change.

and that you consider this a promise.

Intent seems to be the key. And effort. In each of the scenarios above, my intent is still to keep my promise. The date might change, the actual plan might change (maybe we'll talk on the phone or skype this time and can we meet in person another day?) but my intention of being there for my friend is still there. I would hope my friend wouldn't get pissed because I broke my promise to be there that specific day.

Doing the right thing is not always the easy thing. I think of this often. I like easy for sure. But I like me better when I've done the right thing. Sometimes, for me, the right thing is to put myself in someone's elses shoes and try to find out why they broke their promise. And then, after some reflection, make the decision to keep the person in my life, keep the person at arm's length or let the person go.

 

[Angedesoleil]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bxMq0Vcn3VFp1qde8HY3LRGFfHCC4Rrz/view?usp=drivesdk

It came up for an interesting reason.

 

[Angedesoleil]

I 100% agree with forgiveness being extremely important. We all fall short. I need forgiveness more than most. That's a whole nother point.

I'm glad it resonated. ♡

 

[Angedesoleil]

Double post is whoops, but it was brought to my attention people may assume I'm directing the "I need my PYL" at or towards my ....person... I'm not. This is once again, me understanding my own psychology. It has nothing necessarily to do with recent changes to my own personal life attachments.