Whats in a Name?

[shy slave]

This is a thought process and offshoot from both KCs 'What do you consider Extreme BDSM' and 'The Perfect Master' thread by 3113.

What do the words 'submissive' and 'slave' imply to you?

Are they different and in what way are they different?

If you are introduced to someone and told they are a slave, or they have the word slave in their name, do you have different ideas about how they should act as oppose to if they were introduced as a submissive?

On a similiar note is their a difference between Dom/Mes and Master/Mistresses, do you have different expectations of someone who introduces themselves as one or the other?

Have your views on what these words mean changed over time, is that due to personal discovery or changes within the BDSM community?

 

[Kajira Callista]

This is a thought process and offshoot from both KCs 'What do you consider Extreme BDSM' and 'The Perfect Master' thread by 3113.

What do the words 'submissive' and 'slave' imply to you?

Are they different and in what way are they different?

If you are introduced to someone and told they are a slave, or they have the word slave in their name, do you have different ideas about how they should act as oppose to if they were introduced as a submissive?

On a similiar note is their a difference between Dom/Mes and Master/Mistresses, do you have different expectations of someone who introduces themselves as one or the other?

Have your views on what these words mean changed over time, is that due to personal discovery or changes within the BDSM community?

Dominants are Dominant, submissives are submissive. Where it branches out from there makes no difference to me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I used to have definite ideas about what those names signified, and for me personally I still do, but I have come to realise that not everyone feels or thinks the same and choose what they like or what helps them fall into the place they want to be. We are finding it is very popular to advertise as a slave, my definition of which means you have or are working toward a no limits and/or TPE relationship, but which many mean they submit for play with a long list of what they will and won't do and how 'they' want things to play out in all aspects with no room for pushing boundaries over time or changing where they are...so I ask lots of questions, then sit back and see if the answers correspnd with their relaxed conversation directions.

Catalina

 

[Unccwhitegurl]

For me Slave implies that you *have* to do everything, like even if you would use your safe word he/she wouldn't stop, untrue i know but still. I can't call anyone master or sir. They make me laugh, i can call you my Dom, Daddy, or Sir and i am just fine. i guess just a personal thing. I would hate to be refered to as a slave, because to me it seems almost with out respect. But i know that is not the truth just a personal feeling.

 

[A Desert Rose]

This is a thought process and offshoot from both KCs 'What do you consider Extreme BDSM' and 'The Perfect Master' thread by 3113.

What do the words 'submissive' and 'slave' imply to you?

Are they different and in what way are they different?

If you are introduced to someone and told they are a slave, or they have the word slave in their name, do you have different ideas about how they should act as oppose to if they were introduced as a submissive?

On a similiar note is their a difference between Dom/Mes and Master/Mistresses, do you have different expectations of someone who introduces themselves as one or the other?

Have your views on what these words mean changed over time, is that due to personal discovery or changes within the BDSM community?

Submissive and slave mean 2 entirely different things to me but that's because I know people who use those labels for themselves and I define those words based on the knowledge that I HAVE because of knowing them. catalina and I are both submissives, but our choices aren't the same. She is in a 24/7 relationship and made the decision to practice her submission in a more - for lack of a better word - extreme way. A slave is a submissive, in my opinion, just farther over on the meter than I am.

On a side note, I think it would be hard to be a slave without being in a 24/7 relationship. But that judgement on my part is solely based on the fact that I've never practiced being a slave and therefore, have no first hand knowledge.

I have no opinion on how someone should act, based on the title they choose to present themselves. Everyone's submission (whether they are slaves or not) is different and is fashioned for the Dom they serve. To determine how someone should act would be based on my opinions, ethics etc, and it's inappropriate for me or anyone else, to impose those views on the population.

You (the world at large) are only reading text on a screen here. In some ways the internet is a one dimensional world. But we are three dimensional creatures and to draw conclusions about people based solely on text typed on a computer screen would be erroneous.

I do know some women who are slaves and I base my opinions on that knowledge.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Once again KC, I'm awed by your simplisity.

You have a way of cutting through the fluff and getting to the marrow of a topic.

Semantics are a funny thing but if one has a grasp of a language meaning is always clear. To me the issue is a potato/potato....tomato/tomato kind of thing. What difference does accent make?

Dominants are Dominant, submissives are submissive. Where it branches out from there makes no difference to me.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Once again KC, I'm awed by your simplisity.

You have a way of cutting through the fluff and getting to the marrow of a topic.

Semantics are a funny thing but if one has a grasp of a language meaning is always clear. To me the issue is a potato/potato....tomato/tomato kind of thing. What difference does accent make?

None. lol
I still believe that Dominants are dominant and submissives are submissive. How the rest of the world sees them makes no never mind to me...
mostly because i spend most of my time in my own world and don't always notice much of what goes on around me

 

[shy slave]

Thanks for the views on this.

I know of people who make very clear distinctions between when a submissive becomes a slave and when a Dom/Me becomes a Master/Mistress.

For them there are no grey areas, its very black and white.

I liked KCs comments on it all. If your ever in the UK please come to a munch with me' I know one or two Doms would could learn alot from your 'state it as it is' view

BB, I agree there is an element of semantics within the question. But I don't see that the meaning of these words is always clear. To me, there is also an element of subjectivity.

Like catalina I used to have a more rigid view on what the differing terms mean, those ideas came largly from wannabes and the internet, not meeting people in real life.
My ideas are more fluid now, and I don't see that one persons interpretation of a term is the right or only way, it is a subjective perception based on personal views.

I really like this comment of ADRs

You (the world at large) are only reading text on a screen here. In some ways the internet is a one dimensional world. But we are three dimensional creatures and to draw conclusions about people based solely on text typed on a computer screen would be erroneous.

As people we do that all the time and sometimes things are misinterpretated. It doesn't just happen on the net, but with any type of medium where we can't see the person for ourselves or here their personal tone of voice.

I do see slaves and submissives as different. Those views are based partly on people I have met and partly on what those words sounded like, and meant to me, prior to my involvement in BDSM.

Unccwhitegurl, thanks for your honesty on how you view the differing words. I like the fact you acknowledge your thoughts are not true to everyone but its how you would view it for yourself.
I prefer 'slave' to 'submissive,' I have met alot of subs who are play only and the word slave to me implies a more serious commitment.
I know that view may annoy some of you, and its not intended as a slight towards anyone, its just how I see it for me personally.
I also struggle with words like Master & Dom but i also struggle with Sir and daddy. I like 'owner' but its not the easiest word to remember when I am at the point of orgasm.
Edited for spelling of course!

 

[A Desert Rose]

... I do see slaves and submissives as different. Those views are based partly on people I have met and partly on what those words sounded like, and meant to me, prior to my involvement in BDSM...QUOTE]

Exactly. You use your own knowledge to make a judgement about someone. We all do that, every day, dozens and dozens of times, for dozens and dozens of reasons and then, depending on another myriad of experiences.

When someone posts or says they are a slave, the only thing that I think is "their needle on my meter is farther to the right." (Right being higher, in my mind.) In other words, their submission as at a different level than mine is.

It doesn't mean that their submission is better than mine, more right or more perfect... just that their choices are different from mine. But because a slave is also a submissive, we do have common ground in a great many experiences. And because their submission is more intense than mine, I learn a lot from them.

 

[shy slave]

... I do see slaves and submissives as different. Those views are based partly on people I have met and partly on what those words sounded like, and meant to me, prior to my involvement in BDSM...QUOTE]

Exactly. You use your own knowledge to make a judgement about someone. We all do that, every day, dozens and dozens of times, for dozens and dozens of reasons and then, depending on another myriad of experiences.

When someone posts or says they are a slave, the only thing that I think is "their needle on my meter is farther to the right." (Right being higher, in my mind.) In other words, their submission as at a different level than mine is.

It doesn't mean that their submission is better than mine, more right or more perfect... just that their choices are different from mine. But because a slave is also a submissive, we do have common ground in a great many experiences. And because their submission is more intense than mine, I learn a lot from them.

 

[Bandit58]

... I do see slaves and submissives as different. Those views are based partly on people I have met and partly on what those words sounded like, and meant to me, prior to my involvement in BDSM...QUOTE]

Exactly. You use your own knowledge to make a judgement about someone. We all do that, every day, dozens and dozens of times, for dozens and dozens of reasons and then, depending on another myriad of experiences.

When someone posts or says they are a slave, the only thing that I think is "their needle on my meter is farther to the right." (Right being higher, in my mind.) In other words, their submission as at a different level than mine is.

It doesn't mean that their submission is better than mine, more right or more perfect... just that their choices are different from mine. But because a slave is also a submissive, we do have common ground in a great many experiences. And because their submission is more intense than mine, I learn a lot from them.

Beautifully said ADR

I consider myself to be a submissive, because that is how I have been all of my life without knowing it until a couple of years ago. Master and I live together and I serve as His full time carer as well as His soon to be wife. Slave to me infers someone who has no rights and no limits except those of her Master. Ours is a relationship first, the D/s comes second though it seems to subtly mingle in our daily lives more and more as time goes by.

A Dom friend asked me recently if I would do anything that Master asked me to, within reason of course. When I replied yes I would, he said that he would consider me more of a slave than a submissive. However that's not how I define myself, but perhaps I am sliding more to the right on the slave-o-meter

 

[Chicklet]

I first came across someone who used "slave" and "submissive" as different roles when I was 16. His description was: "Let's say I want you to go down on a woman. As my submissive, I'd ask you about it beforehand, and bring a woman in only if it was something you wanted. As a slave, I'd bring her in without notice, and expect you to go down on her as told."

For a long time that's the definition I kept in my head: slaves do as they're told, submissives have more leway.

However, I think that my mind has changed: I think it varries from pyl to pyl, and their PYL can choose whatever title he/she wants, and define it within their specific relationship.

I describe myself as a "submissive."

 

[Purple Sage]

I'm familiar with a lot of 'traditional' (within the BDSM community) distinctions between submissive and slave, but to me the distinction has mostly to do with the headspace of the sub/slave. One can be a slave without being in the least submissive- in fact, that's the historical norm. I take 'being a submissive' to imply 'being submissive'- that is, having a compliant attitude/mindset. A person can submit, in the sense of doing what they are told, without having any internal sense of submission- again, this seems to be the norm, in at least the world at large. To 'be a submissive' means, to me, that the submissive embraces compliance rather than resists. A slave can have all the internal resistance in the world, yet still be a slave.


Purple Sage