What would you recommend?

[ABSTRUSE]

Hello poets.

I've been doing some various forms of writing, but poetry has always eluded me.

I would like to attempt poetry, but I'm not sure if there is a formula or template.

How would you advise a novice to begin such a task?

Thank you, ~A~

 

[Tathagata]

Hello poets.

I've been doing some various forms of writing, but poetry has always eluded me.

I would like to attempt poetry, but I'm not sure if there is a formula or template.

How would you advise a novice to begin such a task?

Thank you, ~A~

Read through some of the stuff here...maybe the " passion" thread or the "construction" thread to see how various people write and polish things..

You can submit something on a thread here and ask for suggestions and comments
and we will all be glad to help.



just my idea

 

[WickedEve]

What tath said. Also, read as much poetry as possible. We've had exercises in the past that were very good for honing your skills. One is a poetry version of taboo. That exercise cleanses your system of cliché words and forces you to be original. I'll have to dig that thread up later today. Also, there was one a few months ago. You basically choose an item, like a chair, picture, etc. You write about it (details like texture, hues, shapes, etc) for five days. Each day you have to find new words and ways to describe that item.
There are more that I can't think of at the moment.

 

[WickedEve]

Check out this thread Try to read through the entire thread. It's not long. (skip over the food fight. lol) I think you may get something out of it. And try the challenge.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Thanks guys, you have been quite helpful.

 

[Belegon]

ABS, my luv, the thing I will add is to always have something around somewhere so that you can WRITE IT DOWN! My major challenge is that I sometimes lose something good because I don't write it down.

My style is very "stream of thought-get it out-everything on paper-then fix it" though. Which has a lot to do with why almost everything decent from me is free verse.

 

[Angeline]

Read poetry every day and see what appeals to you. This site and this one are great places to explore because they offer a wide variety of poems and poets. And write every day--just do it, even if you think what you produce is not very good. The combination of reading lots of poetry and practicing writing it is a powerful one. You'll improve steadily.

 

[ferociouskittycat]

Thanks ABS.

I'm going to steal some of your advice

I'm still learning too.

 

[jd4george]

My two cents worth... (generously given to me).

The sad fact is that there are as many styles and approaches to poetry as there are poets' voices. We all adhere to certain rules, and we all simoultaneously ignore them. That being said, I share two pieces of advice I received from poets I admire.

The first is from Maine poet Betsy Sholl. She said the first step in becoming a poet is making the choice to be one. She said that it was that simple, the hard part was then being willing to explore places and things that scared the hell out of you.

The second piece of advice came from Allen Ginsburg. I was lucky enough to catch him at a poetry reading back in 1969. He said, (this is a quote, because I wrote it down)... "People don't like your stuff... then fuck'em. You ain't willing to change... then fuck you."

Read. Listen. Write. Explore. And remember, we all make our stuff up!

 

[minsue]

"People don't like your stuff... then fuck'em. You ain't willing to change... then fuck you."

Ooh! I really like that!

 

[jd4george]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jd4george
"People don't like your stuff... then fuck'em. You ain't willing to change... then fuck you."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


minsure... it was pure, unadulterated, vintage '69 Ginsburg! Might be why he never seemed to read "Howl" the same way twice.

(Then again, it might have been the drugs!).

 

[minsue]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jd4george
"People don't like your stuff... then fuck'em. You ain't willing to change... then fuck you."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


minsure... it was pure, unadulterated, vintage '69 Ginsburg! Might be why he never seemed to read "Howl" the same way twice.

(Then again, it might have been the drugs!).

Yours or his?

 

[tungtied2u]

Advice

My two cents worth... (generously given to me).


She said that it was that simple, the hard part was then being willing to explore places and things that scared the hell out of you.

The second piece of advice came from Allen Ginsburg. I was lucky enough to catch him at a poetry reading back in 1969. He said, (this is a quote, because I wrote it down)... "People don't like your stuff... then fuck'em. You ain't willing to change... then fuck you."

Read. Listen. Write. Explore. And remember, we all make our stuff up!

Sounds like good advice for life in general. But then poetry is life, and life is poetic.

Thanks for the gems jd.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

My two cents worth... (generously given to me).

The sad fact is that there are as many styles and approaches to poetry as there are poets' voices. We all adhere to certain rules, and we all simoultaneously ignore them. That being said, I share two pieces of advice I received from poets I admire.

The first is from Maine poet Betsy Sholl. She said the first step in becoming a poet is making the choice to be one. She said that it was that simple, the hard part was then being willing to explore places and things that scared the hell out of you.

The second piece of advice came from Allen Ginsburg. I was lucky enough to catch him at a poetry reading back in 1969. He said, (this is a quote, because I wrote it down)... "People don't like your stuff... then fuck'em. You ain't willing to change... then fuck you."

Read. Listen. Write. Explore. And remember, we all make our stuff up!

Fabulous, so it's basically a form of free thought put down in either verse or just laid bare as it comes from the soul?

 

[The_Fool]

Fabulous, so it's basically a form of free thought put down in either verse or just laid bare as it comes from the soul?

Writing is like making wine. Writing poetry is like making brandy. First you make the wine and then you distill it to its very essence.

 

[minsue]

Writing is like making wine. Writing poetry is like making brandy. First you make the wine and then you distill it to its very essence.

Ooh, I like that, too.

 

[jd4george]

Abstruse... I think the answer to your last question is yes... and, sadly, no.

The Fool is right on with his metaphor about the wine/brandy. A pontificating professor of mine bought me my first snifter of brandy. The only gleaning remaining from his diatribe about that amber fire is: "Drinking brandy is like making love. You need to do it slowly and correctly to enjoy its perfection." Though he was a self-absorbed asshole, I suspect he was right.

I think the same is true of poetry. I occasionally have a catharsis that creates words so inspired that they scare me. I also have words that have required decades of polishing and reworking.

There are rules everywhere. How tos and why fors and opinions and roadmaps. Sometimes we stop and ask directions... other times we simply drive on instinct.

Using a silly metaphor from a poem of mine, "we learned to use words like a child's fingerpaints". Simply using the paint doesn't make us an artist, even when mom wants to put our picture up on the refrigerator.

Being an artist doesn't necessarily make us a craftsman. Craftsman know how to stay inside the lines. Both use brushes and knifes and pencils and crayons. One understands the tools... the other understands the inspiration.

It's not just putting your bared soul on paper. It's about "voice". Finding the voice can take a lifetime. But when you find it, people read your words and they hear choirs.

It's the words, the tools, the soul and the voice. And, its a passion that you cannot ignore, no matter how hard you try.

Goddamn it! I sound like that professor! Sorry.

 

[Angeline]

My muse-mentor the great Lester Young said "You've got to be original." You begin, he said referring to jazz, by listening to a lot of music and finding the artists you really love. When you write your own stuff, you imitate them at first and you play with the imitations. But above all, you keep at it, and eventually your unique voice emerges. That's great advice for creating any art to my thinking.

 

[champagne1982]

<snip>
I think the same is true of poetry. I occasionally have a catharsis that creates words so inspired that they scare me. I also have words that have required decades of polishing and reworking.</snip>

Seriously, I can't take anything I write as anything but the gift I've been fortunate enough to receive. I would think that after decades of polishing, some of the lead might come shining through. Do you ever fear that result?

 

[twelveoone]

Hello poets.

I've been doing some various forms of writing, but poetry has always eluded me.

I would like to attempt poetry, but I'm not sure if there is a formula or template.

How would you advise a novice to begin such a task?

Thank you, ~A~

All excellent advice from poets above, although I suspect, that if some of them followed Eve's "chair" exercise, either they or someone else would be nude in it having something done.
great ginsberg quote.
My first question would be why do you want to write?
Second what do you want to say?
Then it becomes, what is the best way to say it.
On a practical level, check out the writings of some of the above, does any appeal to you, then read the comments, do any of them appeal to you? Then check out what they wrote.
I recognise most of the names above, they are quite good, sometimes they miss. It may be the best learning experiance going. Er, check out some of the less gifted and good, also, to see what to avoid.

AND Then always remember you will be writing in a language that is dying of cancer. (what you say now, will mean something completely different 20 years from down)
That being said, avoid my stuff like the plague that it is.

 

[jd4george]

Champagne... (who, by the way, is responsible for my stumbling into this wonderful den of demented & talented poets): In my eyes, the inspiration is always a rare gift. But I guess I'm ego-centric enough to want to claim the words as mine.

As for the decades of polishing... if the old piece is silver-plate then tin and lead show through. In that case, the form and decoration might have been nice, but had little substance. Those I put back on the shelf.

Other times, I find just the right amount of sweat and grit to make a cheap piece shine. Those are sometimes put out for people to admire, but still will eventually land up on a shelf.

However, once in a while I find a dirty old chunk of stuff. I clean and polish and tinker and knock out the dents. Most just sparkle a little better... but there are enough times that I find a rare work of art that I cannot ignore the pile of other dirty, tarnished pieces.

And Twelveoone... That is wonderful advice to both the virgins and the old whores. This place is one of the most extraordinary tools I have found. There are poets to share and talk with... Lots of wonderful, new poems to read... Feedback freely and openly given... Inspiration abounds...

The only requisite is to be willing to give back what you receive, (Thanks Tara!). That's a helluva lot cheaper and effective than retreats, or seminars, or even workshops... let alone finding someone willing and crazy enough to become your mentor.

As for the poetic work and sweat... I have some strong opinions about this. A common refrain I hear is "I dashed that off last night, so it might not be as tight as it could be." Another version of the same is: "I never go back and monkey with my stuff."

If Shakespeare could come back to life, I know he'd write some new stuff. I also know that every time he came to a place where words failed him, he would simply make up another new one.

I also believe that if he had the chance, he would tinker with his old stuff. (All of that is assuming that for once in his life, his bills were paid).

In that vein, I constantly find myself asking: Are any of our poems ever really done? My quiet response is always, "I hope not!"

The best personal example that I can give is a piece that I posted here a few weeks ago. I first wrote it back in 1991, and it won a PEN America Award. Hours upon hours of work later, it is now a distant cousin to the original... and a much better poem! The trip to New York was cool, but long since gone. The poem is still being read and commented on... and by poets!

Honestly, that's a better award.

 

[jd4george]

Oops!

One more thing. Twelveoone said "sometimes they miss". THANK GOD! If everything we created always hit the mark, then we'd have nowhere to go.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Re: Re: What would you recommend?

AND Then always remember you will be writing in a language that is dying of cancer. (what you say now, will mean something completely different 20 years from down)
That being said, avoid my stuff like the plague that it is.

I love this!

not the part about avoiding your stuff I mean.

 

[twelveoone]

Of Chairs and Insurrections

We've had exercises in the past that were very good for honing your skills. One is ... You basically choose an item, like a chair, picture, etc. You write about it (details like texture, hues, shapes, etc) for five days. Each day you have to find new words and ways to describe that item.

jd4george"Inspiration abounds..."

Yes it does, so nobody misunderstands, I find that Wicked Eve is for me one of the most inspirational people around here.
(if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him - tath explain this to her)

(I honed something else in this one)
Of Chairs and Insurrections
(Excerpt)

For fours days I stared at you, you never had a word to say
Wooden bastard!...

God! how I love the smell of pine in the morning!
Next exercise


ABSTRUSE - check this one out, it may be a good example of how to worm allusions into a piece, I think I stuffed 5 or 6 into it...

Oh, wicked one, I feel as you have been ignoring me (whine, whine), I offer this to you as a piece offering of humour. Hopefully it will be posted tomorrow - hope you like it.

 

[twelveoone]

Re: Of Chairs and Insurrections

jd4george"Inspiration abounds..."

Yes it does, so nobody misunderstands, I find that Wicked Eve is for me one of the most inspirational people around here.
(if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him - tath explain this to her)

(I honed something else in this one)
Of Chairs and Insurrections
(Excerpt)

For fours days I stared at you, you never had a word to say
Wooden bastard!...

God! how I love the smell of pine in the morning!
Next exercise


ABSTRUSE - check this one out, it may be a good example of how to worm allusions into a piece, I think I stuffed 5 or 6 into it...

Oh, wicked one, I feel as you have been ignoring me (whine, whine), I offer this to you as a piece offering of humour. Hopefully it will be posted tomorrow - hope you like it.

remember kids don't try this at home
he laughs madly

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=159625