What would you do?

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

If you watch somebody get murdered or attacked the law dictates that you have to report it. Otherwise you could face charges for obstruction... or even accessory, if your failure to react made the damage worse. Watching something imbues you with an obligation.






But it is still not your decision to make.

If you see your friends spouse cheat and decides to "let it go and hope she has learned her lesson", you are making a decision regarding a major issue in another mans life behind his back. And if it should turn out that his wife hasn't learned her lesson after all, everything that happens in the future will be on your hands. That's a daunting responsibility to assume.

Last I checked sex aint murder.

 

[StrangeLife]

Last I checked sex aint murder.

You haven't been with the right girl then.

 

[DeYaKen]

I'm so glad to see most people treating this seriously. In the LW stories it is usually treated as the right thing to do, to tell what you know. I have only read one where the effect this had on the friendship was discussed.

As some have said this is not a simple problem and doesn't have a simple answer. The once a cheater, always a cheater doesn't really hold water. There are so many things that bring about infidelity and it is almost never due to cock size. Often they are one off situations that are never likely to be repeated. i.e. clinical depression, or menopause.

When Penn Lady talks about the danger of a friend not believing you it's right on. If you have a strong marriage you should believe your spouse before your friend.

In the stories, when a man's friend tells him that his his wife is having an affair, the man is grateful and his relationship with his friend becomes stronger. In reality a messy divorce ensues and the friend is always associated with life falling apart. There is no anger or recriminations but the friends drift apart. Two relationships are destroyed and what has been achieved?

I can honestly say that if my wife has had a brief affair during our marriage then I don't want to know. If I knew I would have to tackle that situation and it would affect so many lives that it is best left alone. If she were having an ongoing affair right now I would want to know, but that doesn't mean that the messenger would be welcome.

As for my friend, I know what brought about the infidelity. I'm pretty sure it won't happen again. I'm keeping my mouth well and truly shut.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm so glad to see most people treating this seriously. In the LW stories it is usually treated as the right thing to do, to tell what you know. I have only read one where the effect this had on the friendship was discussed.

As some have said this is not a simple problem and doesn't have a simple answer. The once a cheater, always a cheater doesn't really hold water. There are so many things that bring about infidelity and it is almost never due to cock size. Often they are one off situations that are never likely to be repeated. i.e. clinical depression, or menopause.

When Penn Lady talks about the danger of a friend not believing you it's right on. If you have a strong marriage you should believe your spouse before your friend.

In the stories, when a man's friend tells him that his his wife is having an affair, the man is grateful and his relationship with his friend becomes stronger. In reality a messy divorce ensues and the friend is always associated with life falling apart. There is no anger or recriminations but the friends drift apart. Two relationships are destroyed and what has been achieved?

I can honestly say that if my wife has had a brief affair during our marriage then I don't want to know. If I knew I would have to tackle that situation and it would affect so many lives that it is best left alone. If she were having an ongoing affair right now I would want to know, but that doesn't mean that the messenger would be welcome.

As for my friend, I know what brought about the infidelity. I'm pretty sure it won't happen again. I'm keeping my mouth well and truly shut.

Wait till someone suicides on your ass, after you've given them the happy news about their partner, it gives a whole new meaning to SERIOUS.

Folks really welcome news about pedophiles theyre dating, but that's why we have bullets to bite when we must be brave and do the right thing.

 

[slyc_willie]

But it is still not your decision to make.

If you see your friends spouse cheat and decides to "let it go and hope she has learned her lesson", you are making a decision regarding a major issue in another mans life behind his back. And if it should turn out that his wife hasn't learned her lesson after all, everything that happens in the future will be on your hands. That's a daunting responsibility to assume.

No, it won't. They're adults. They make their own decisions and take responsibility for them. This isn't a cut-and-dried issue, and in no way should a friend feel like they have assumed responsibility for another person's ill-thought actions.

You say it's not the decision of the friend to make, but then you assign them the responsibility of dealing with the fallout. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

 

[StrangeLife]

No, it won't. They're adults. They make their own decisions and take responsibility for them. This isn't a cut-and-dried issue, and in no way should a friend feel like they have assumed responsibility for another person's ill-thought actions.

You are forgetting that "inactivity" reflects a choice too.

There is no escaping the fact that if you are in possession of potentially life-altering knowledge concerning a friend and you choose to keep it from him, you are making a life-altering decision on his behalf - and without his consent or knowledge.

You say it's not the decision of the friend to make, but then you assign them the responsibility of dealing with the fallout. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Ok, let's say you have a word with the cheater and she promises to never do it again if you dont tell your friend about her indiscretion. But who is in the best position to make that judgement? Who knows her the best? You or your friend who is married to her and lives with her?

 

[slyc_willie]

You are forgetting that "inactivity" reflects a choice too.

No, I'm not. But it appears you are making assumptions to help make your point.

There is no escaping the fact that if you are in possession of potentially life-altering knowledge concerning a friend and you choose to keep it from him, you are making a life-altering decision on his behalf - and without his consent or knowledge.

I would not be making a decision on anyone's behalf but my own. There's no denying the impact that action or complacency can have. But if I worried about how my actions or lack of actions affected everything, I'd drive myself nuts.

Knowledge of an event does not automatically make someone a part of it. Yes, there are arguments against that, but I don't subscribe to them, mainly because you would then have to ultimately conclude that we as human beings are complicit in every event that happens around the world. Responsibility is a wonderful and necessary thing, but even it can be taken too far.

Ok, let's say you have a word with the cheater and she promises to never do it again if you dont tell your friend about her indiscretion. But who is in the best position to make that judgement? Who knows her the best? You or your friend who is married to her and lives with her?

Six in one hand, half dozen in the other. You're talking about a moral judgment. There are no "rights" or "wrongs," just opinions. This goes back to my initial post in which I said that this isn't an easy issue. There are no safe calls. Regardless of what is done or not done, someone could potentially get hurt.

Consider the choices:

If I do or say nothing, and it doesn't happen again, neither of them are hurt (except through guilt on the offender's part, but that would be just desserts, I think).

If I do or say nothing and it happens again, one or both of them are hurt (with the assumption that I or someone would say something at that point).

If I do or say something, one or both of them are hurt.

The first is the only option in which there is potential for no further damage to the couple's relationship (except for the existence of a guilty secret, but I'm pretty sure those exist already. We all have them). At best, it's a fifty-fifty chance, which is more favorable than the third option.

At this point, all this is -- for me -- is an academic exercise in moral judgment. I've never had married friends in this kind of situation. If I ever do, I'll let you know my decision.

 

[StrangeLife]

No, I'm not. But it appears you are making assumptions to help make your point.

I would not be making a decision on anyone's behalf but my own. There's no denying the impact that action or complacency can have. But if I worried about how my actions or lack of actions affected everything, I'd drive myself nuts.

Knowledge of an event does not automatically make someone a part of it. Yes, there are arguments against that, but I don't subscribe to them, mainly because you would then have to ultimately conclude that we as human beings are complicit in every event that happens around the world. Responsibility is a wonderful and necessary thing, but even it can be taken too far.

You are wrong - some knowledge come with obligations and responsibilities. If you know about an injustice committed and you don't come forward, you are an accomplice to the perpretrator. Simple as that.

If I do or say nothing, and it doesn't happen again, neither of them are hurt (except through guilt on the offender's part, but that would be just desserts, I think).

Your friend will be living a lie and you will be an accomplice to the person who has betrayed him and - as long as she doesn't confess - is continuing to do so.

If I do or say nothing and it happens again, one or both of them are hurt.

But what if they have gotten a couple of kids and a mortgage at that time? The fall-out could be a lot worse if it happens at a later time.

If I do or say something, one or both of them are hurt.

Yes, but in a good way. It will be like a catharsis for your friend, who will now be able to make an informed choice to either...

- Forgive her and move on.
He knows her a lot better than you do and decides to take a chance on her. They work trough it and in the process she understands how much he was hurt by her action and how close she came to throwing everything away. If she cares for him, that will be an added incentive to avoid relapse.

- Dump her.
Again he knows her a lot better than you do and decides that life is too short to spend it with a person he cannot trust. Eventually he will be happy that you told him.


In either case the air is cleared and he can go on living without this shadow hanging over his head. A shadow that was invisible to him until you opened his eyes.

At this point, all this is -- for me -- is an academic exercise in moral judgment. I've never had married friends in this kind of situation. If I ever do, I'll let you know my decision.

You will blackmail her of course...

 

[Hypoxia]

Depends on who you wish to remain friends with. A friend helps a friend. Your choice.

 

[slyc_willie]

You are wrong - some knowledge come with obligations and responsibilities. If you know about an injustice committed and you don't come forward, you are an accomplice to the perpretrator. Simple as that.

Using a legal term in a moral argument isn't the wisest of choices. That, and using phrases like "you are wrong" compromises your credibility.

Your friend will be living a lie and you will be an accomplice to the person who has betrayed him and - as long as she doesn't confess - is continuing to do so.

But what if they have gotten a couple of kids and a mortgage at that time? The fall-out could be a lot worse if it happens at a later time.

Yes, but in a good way. It will be like a catharsis for your friend, who will now be able to make an informed choice to either...

- Forgive her and move on.
He knows her a lot better than you do and decides to take a chance on her. They work trough it and in the process she understands how much he was hurt by her action and how close she came to throwing everything away. If she cares for him, that will be an added incentive to avoid relapse.

- Dump her.
Again he knows her a lot better than you do and decides that life is too short to spend it with a person he cannot trust. Eventually he will be happy that you told him.

In either case the air is cleared and he can go on living without this shadow hanging over his head. A shadow that was invisible to him until you opened his eyes.

Suppositions and what-ifs. This argument could go on forever. You have your view, I have mine. It's been an interesting discussion, but I think it's gone as far as it can go.

You will blackmail her of course...

Only if she's hot.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Depends on who you wish to remain friends with. A friend helps a friend. Your choice.

People wont put up with the truth.

 

[StrangeLife]

Using a legal term in a moral argument isn't the wisest of choices. That, and using phrases like "you are wrong" compromises your credibility.

The issue where you are straight up wrong is not your decision to not interfere in the situation - it is your assumption that you are not making an active choice by doing so. Like I said, it's a binary decision with no escape. Once you know, you can't "un-know" so whatever you do from that point on is a decision. Yep, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Depends on who you wish to remain friends with. A friend helps a friend. Your choice.

This is actually a good point - what if you are equally good friends with both the cheater and the cheatee? One friend is betraying another friend?

 

[DeYaKen]

The debate between Strangelife and Slyc Willie makes an assumption that is not theirs to make.

That assumption is that the offended party, let's call them the cheatee would actually want to know. As you know assume makes an ass of you (u) and me. Imagine a situation where your friend is happy in their ignorance. They may suspect that something is going on,or has gone on, but as long as they are not confronted by it they can push it to the back of their mind and pretend it is not happening.

By telling your friend that you know about their spouse, you force them to confront something they wanted to ignore. Your action would be like tossing a hand grenade into a perfectly happy relationship.

I have another friend (yes I have more than one) whose wife told him when they got married.
"I know with all the travelling you do, there will be times when we are apart, and you are lonely and will feel tempted to stray. If that happens and you do have a one night stand, just make sure that I never find out about it."

 

[Hypoxia]

I have another friend (yes I have more than one) whose wife told him when they got married.
"I know with all the travelling you do, there will be times when we are apart, and you are lonely and will feel tempted to stray. If that happens and you do have a one night stand, just make sure that I never find out about it."

That is exactly one of the Game Rules I mention in WHAT IS CHEATING? (linked below). Participants in any relationship-partnership have explicit or implicit rules, which can vary widely. In one rule-set, even THINKING of someone else is cheating. In another, like you mention, it's Don't Ask Don't Tell. In another, it's Bring Them Home To Share.

Am I sufficiently aware of a partnership's rules (other people) to be a referee of their lives? I dunno.

 

[StrangeLife]

The debate between Strangelife and Slyc Willie makes an assumption that is not theirs to make.

That assumption is that the offended party, let's call them the cheatee would actually want to know. As you know assume makes an ass of you (u) and me. Imagine a situation where your friend is happy in their ignorance. They may suspect that something is going on,or has gone on, but as long as they are not confronted by it they can push it to the back of their mind and pretend it is not happening.

But in a case where "knowing" is impossible "assuming" is the next best thing, right? It is simply not possible to go through life without making assumptions on a constant basis, although they will usually be based on some level of knowledge - what we would call "educated guesses". Sometimes we guess wrong, but we mostly get it right.

In this case the person cheated on is your good friend. You will usually know a good friend pretty well and thus be in a good position to judge what he can handle and the manner of which best to put it to him. As far as those "cheating rules goes", she is the one who broke them by making me - who is a friend of her husband and thus part of his network - find out.

Am I sufficiently aware of a partnership's rules (other people) to be a referee of their lives? I dunno.

That's exactly the point. You aren't. So therefore you have no business making a decision about what your friend can and cannot know. You are his friend so what you see, he should know. Then it is up to him how to proceed.

 

[October46]

I'm not saying I wouldn't want to know myself if my spouse was cheating. I'm just saying that when you are on the outside, it isn't always a clear cut decision on whether to tell someone.

I agree, nothing to be accomplished by telling and it is none of our business if all is settled.

 

[StrangeLife]

I agree, nothing to be accomplished by telling and it is none of our business if all is settled.

But remember - if you don't tell, you are effectively making a major life decision on your friends behalf.

 

[October46]

But remember - if you don't tell, you are effectively making a major life decision on your friends behalf.

Yes, but do you want to be the one that ruins their lives over a pass incident?

 

[StrangeLife]

Yes, but do you want to be the one that ruins their lives over a pass incident?

But you aren't. She is. Your duty as a friend is to be on his side - even if it hurts. A good friend is somebody who will answer you honestly if you ask "Do I look fat in these?"

By not telling you are not only robbing him of the option of making a very important choice, but also withholding important knowledge from him that he needs in order to be able to assess his partners sincerity and commitment. What if they get two kids and she then cheats again? Since he didn't know about the first time, it would hit him like a freight train and the disaster would be so much bigger...

 

[SecondCircle]

There's no one answer to this in my opinion. Different folks do everything differently. Your right answer is different from mine.

My buddy has told me before to be honest with him and let him know. His reasoning was simply that friends look out for each other, good news or bad. Said he'd hate for something like that to go on for even longer when I knew about it the whole time.

I agree with him and would want him to do the same. That's maybe not what everyone should do but that's us. Personally, it's just more of a friendship that way to me.