Perhaps I'm being hypertechnical as well as testy (or rather, no "perhaps" about it), but when a writer seeks an editor, it might be well for the writer to specify what s/he wants the editor to do. For example, I am a copy editor. I correct grammar, syntax, sentence structure and vocabulary; I don't do continuity (e.g., he wore jeans when the story started, now he's wearing shorts with no time shift or indication that he changed his clothes); I don't do character analysis or technical editing, but I am sure there are editors who have the requisite backgrounds for that sort of work and who do it. And I'm not a hand-holder or plot provider, although again I'm sure that you can find such on Lit. So, writers, what do you want?
What Means Editor?
- Thread starter estragon
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bronzeage
I am a river to my people
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I have been asked to define the difference between editor, copy editor, and proof reader. Many people are actually looking for a re-writer.
As you said, a copy editor concentrates on proper grammar, punctuation and spelling. An experienced and confident writer needs a copy editor more than a critical editor.
The writers with whom I have worked tended to be less experienced and for some of them, English was a second language. A critical editor should evaluate all aspects of the story and point out the weak parts, parts which should be deleted and missed opportunities to make the story better. This is a erotica site, so some writers need technical advice about certain sex acts they have never performed or observed. All in a day's work.
All the writers who have asked for my help have been very clear about their needs and what they expected. We have been patient with each other. Some decide it is not worth the effort when they discover how much work is required. Others slog through four or five rewrites before the story is finished. If there is a systematic error through the entire piece, I explain how to correct it on the first page and leave it to the writer to do the rest.
As you said, a copy editor concentrates on proper grammar, punctuation and spelling. An experienced and confident writer needs a copy editor more than a critical editor.
The writers with whom I have worked tended to be less experienced and for some of them, English was a second language. A critical editor should evaluate all aspects of the story and point out the weak parts, parts which should be deleted and missed opportunities to make the story better. This is a erotica site, so some writers need technical advice about certain sex acts they have never performed or observed. All in a day's work.
All the writers who have asked for my help have been very clear about their needs and what they expected. We have been patient with each other. Some decide it is not worth the effort when they discover how much work is required. Others slog through four or five rewrites before the story is finished. If there is a systematic error through the entire piece, I explain how to correct it on the first page and leave it to the writer to do the rest.
sr71plt
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Most writers don't really understand the differences in the level of editing--which isn't surprising. They aren't editors. Bronze posted something about defining the differences but then didn't really do so. For writers, this is what your words mean when you ask for various forms of help.
Reader, or beta reader: Someone to read your work and give you notes on whatever they think would be helpful. This is usually another writer, who isn't an editor, and thus shouldn't try to be or be expected to be editing the work.
Proofreader: Technically a proofreader only reads live (current version) copy against dead (former version) copy and marks where the differences are. No editing is done here--just pointing to changes appearing between iterations of the manuscript. Writers tend to ask for this, expecting an edit, but not wanting to pay for a detailed one.
Copyediting: Technical review and marking of the copy for format, grammar, punctuation, spelling, style, consistency, coherence, and correct facts. In most copyediting, the editor shows suggested changes and asks questions, but the writer does the rewriting.
Development or Content Editing: Work with structure and plot lines/characterizations. Suggesting or providing rewrites.
Ghostwriting: "Take my idea and write it for me under my name."
Reader, or beta reader: Someone to read your work and give you notes on whatever they think would be helpful. This is usually another writer, who isn't an editor, and thus shouldn't try to be or be expected to be editing the work.
Proofreader: Technically a proofreader only reads live (current version) copy against dead (former version) copy and marks where the differences are. No editing is done here--just pointing to changes appearing between iterations of the manuscript. Writers tend to ask for this, expecting an edit, but not wanting to pay for a detailed one.
Copyediting: Technical review and marking of the copy for format, grammar, punctuation, spelling, style, consistency, coherence, and correct facts. In most copyediting, the editor shows suggested changes and asks questions, but the writer does the rewriting.
Development or Content Editing: Work with structure and plot lines/characterizations. Suggesting or providing rewrites.
Ghostwriting: "Take my idea and write it for me under my name."
_Lynn_
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Very helpful information. Thank you for explaining the differences.
When I find time I'll check the EF stickies to see if something like this is in any of them. Until then, I subscribed to the thread so I don't lose it.
A
AsylumSeeker
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While a re-writer may not be a commercially-described editing service, it is essentially what I do in many cases, depending on the writer.
Great_Brit
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As a newbie I read some of the stickies, and I thought Lady Cibelle's The Final List of “do”s and “don’t”s of using a Volunteer Editor was quite clear; in point 0 of the DO section it says:
0. When first contacting a VE, DO explain what you want from the editing process. Some authors welcome ideas for plot extensions, others only wish orthographic and grammatical advice. Some authors need an urgent response, others prefer a thorough edit.
Is this a case of RTFM?
bronzeage
I am a river to my people
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I won't do it, although I have given lessons in English composition as part of the editing process. I do not mind working with someone who truly wants to write in English and produce quality work. The key word is work. If someone is not willing to go through their story, line by line, and rework the awkward parts, I am certainly not going to do it for them.
Re-writing is too much like ghost writing. Ghost writing is definitely a paid position.
sr71plt
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Agree. Editing isn't about taking over ownership of someone else's work.
A
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I don't take ownership of anyone else's work. But if a line needs a comma, or if a word is spelled wrong or is used in the wrong form, I fix it and highlight it in red so the writer knows that I have changed something. Any other changes, I will make notes suggesting changes that can be made, or not, by the writer. I just don't see wasting time explaining why a comma is needed when I can just do it myself very easily and quickly.
As stated earlier, some writers need more help than others, but for the most part I have been the recipient of well-written stories needing few corrections or suggestions.
It works for me and the writers I have been dealing with.
BillBaloney
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SR71.....
I think the reader or editor needs to take a harder look at commonly mis-spelled words. Run the copy through their spell checker and it will spit out numerous errors.
Bill
I think the reader or editor needs to take a harder look at commonly mis-spelled words. Run the copy through their spell checker and it will spit out numerous errors.
Bill
sr71plt
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Computer spellchecker is only a partial guide to spelling. Yes, it should be used, but whoever designed those programs didn't own a dictionary. I don't spell well--so I check every word I'm at all unscure of in the dictionary as well--including the ones the spellchecker says are incorrect (often they aren't).
A
AsylumSeeker
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I thought at first you were meaning "insecure" until it dawned on me you were shooting for "unsure". Not ragging on you SR, just was momentarily confused. Mistakes are made in the forum.
As for spellchecker, I agree with SR. Double-check the suggestions being made. The grammar feature can be useful for highlighting "potential" issues, but don't assume the program is correct. I use it to draw me to do a double-check.
I'm rather down on spell-check software in its various iterations. Too often the software finds errors where there aren't any, and is of no use for correctly spelled typos--e.g., "from" for "form", "to", "too" or "two" improperly used, "confident" for "confidant", and my favorite bete noire, "it's" for "its", and all that jazz. The grammar checking software is often idiosyncratic as well. But SR got it right as to the various brands of editor. One size does not fit all.
