What makes you cheat.

[Weird Harold]

Originally posted by FOR THE WOMEN:
I don't think my wife is cheating however I do think it is possible that she is thinking about it.
...
I have asked her up front if this is what she is thinking but she just got mad at me. I tried explaining to her all the things that make me think this but she, like I stated, has difficulty communicating on this subject.

I'm not a woman, and I don't know what makes them cheat. Not all of them anyway. I have a pretty good idea about what made one woamn cheat.

I'm twice divorced. What broke up my second marriage was paranoia and distrust. (Among other things.) Not my paranoia, but my ex-wife's.

She was so sure I was cheating on her that she definitely cheated on me. The reasons she gave made no real sense, and I found out later, that it wasn't the first or even the second time she had done it.

I believe that the reason she cheated was partly revenge, but mostly because she didn't feel trusted and secure. I take the blame for that.

I do know also, that her paranoia and suspicions throughout our marriage did drive me to consider cheating on her often, and once even led me to do it. I feel no guilt about it. If I was being constantly accused of infidelity, then I felt as if it made no difference if I was fathful or not.

Just a few thoughts from a two-time loser.

 

[Guest]

This one is for the women. I want to know what makes you cheat.

I don't think my wife is cheating however I do think it is possible that she is thinking about it. I try to talk to her but she is very reserved about Sex and Relationships and sorta clams up on me when I try. I won't give up on her because she is the greatest thing in my life. I am however very worried that she may be thinking of looking elsewhere.

I have asked her up front if this is what she is thinking but she just got mad at me. I tried explaining to her all the things that make me think this but she, like I stated, has difficulty communicating on this subject.

I am very loyal to her so I want the same. So
I figured that if I get answers as to what makes a woman cheat then I could possibly avoid this situation by either changing things about myself that may provoke it. I love my wife alot and I believe she knows it. I asked her to promise me that if she finds herself in a situation where an affair is possible then to present me with papers to sign. I couldn't live with the humiliation of that.

Peace \/

 

[Lanna_P]

*shakes her head* I don't cheat. The prospect OF having an affair has come up often with me. But what makes that calm, is me telling my Husband what I'm feeling and do my best to be as honest and open about that as possible, same with him. I count myself lucky that I am married to a Man who has good communication skills with me.

It's hard to get your spouse to open up to something like this, if they have been thinking about it. It's a deep personal thing... and I know that when I WAS thinking on it, and not speaking to my Husband.... whenever the subject came up... the guilt inside I felt for even THINKING about doing something like that, hit me like a 2 ton brick wall. It was staggering.
Maybe that's the reason why your Spouse is having such a hard time.

Thoughts such as affairs, are really common in most marriages, no matter HOW healthy they are.
And most times, it's the guilt for thinking about it alone, can eat up a person.
Resulting in angry fights.

My advice to you:

Get your Spouse in a comfortable position, and start asking questions. But please, it really doesn't help for you to be wanting to have her open up if you are constantly stating you won't "stand for it" or "hand me the papers if you do it". That will make your Spouse feel even worse about themself. It will make them close off to you, possibly permanently.

Most times, it just helps to know that you are there if they ever need to talk about anything. You won't judge, and you'll listen.

....and for heavens sake.... OPEN yourself to this... don't be so closed off. TELL your Spouse just how MUCH you love her. Yes, and affair had behind your back is "humiliating"... but you being just as closed off to your Spouse as She is to you isn't going to help open her up.

Leave the ego out the door, and just be there for her. Let her know that in opening up... you both can grow even more closer. Not farther apart.

Communication only works if BOTH of you attempt it.

-Lanna P.

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

WH, you're not a two-time loser. It sounds as if things just weren't working out for the two of you.

As for me... I was a faithful wife for 19 years - 19 very boring years, but I devoted myself to my kids. My husband, in all that time, has been a kind, caring, workaholic man, but has always bowed down to me about anything and everything: The few days a month that he is home, he would want me to make all the decisions. What we would do, where we would go, what he would wear, what we should eat, how to discipline the kids... I could go on and on. And on those few days he is home, he is still working: He cannot sit still, he has to be outside working in his shop, or cleaning fencerows, or tinkering with his pickup or tractor. We've never had a fight; there have never been any harsh words between us, he would always avoid any provocation... I just wanted a MAN, any man, who would tell ME what to do, I think that that's really what I wanted all along, someone to call the shots, cause I just got tired somewhere along the way of being the father, the mother, and the decision maker in the family, all rolled up into one. And my husband knows all about my affairs. It all started by me asking my husband a couple of years ago if, when he is in a strange motel nearly every night in a different state, if he would just call me and we could have phone sex... He said he is too tired by the time he gets to the motel to do anything like that, but why didn't I call up some of those phone sex numbers and have some fun by myself? Well, I did, and I enjoyed it... and the next thing I know, I'm finding adult chat rooms on the internet, I'm changing the way I dress, I'm losing weight, I'm having men hit on me again after years of it not happening, and sooner or later, the inevitable happens. And I felt so guilty at first... and I tell my husband everything. And he just says, "Well, if it makes you happy, if it's what you want to do, then go ahead." Oh, hell, I don't know who's more fucked up, me or him! And no, he is not having an affair... I have said it would ease my guilt if he did, but he refuses to even consider it, saying he loves me too much, and there isn't enough time in the day to satisfy his own wife, much less any other women.

Well, now everyone knows the whole scandalous truth I have hinted at in other threads... Hit me with all you got, I know most of you will condemn me for my actions. Call it a mid-life crisis, call it a reaction to my kids becoming teenagers and no longer needing Mom in their life as they had when they were younger... I don't know. I only know that I can never again become the person I once was - but I no longer want to.

I now see things for what they really are: I see the truth more clearly than ever. And before, I just kept my rose-colored glasses perched tightly upon my nose, refusing to look at the world around me. I feel alive now for the first time in my life. And it feels good.

Peace and Love,
EOD

 

[MADDOG]

Eve, I can totally understand why you had an affair, but why didn't you tell your husband about your needs in those 19 years? I know he tried to avoid confrontation, but maybe he thought that you were happy?

About the affairs, is it one man or whoever takes your fancy? Maybe it's a turn on for him. Do you tell him about what you do? And would you really be OK with him having an affair to ease your guilt?

Cheers,
MADDOG

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

Originally posted by MADDOG:
Eve, I can totally understand why you had an affair, but why didn't you tell your husband about your needs in those 19 years? I know he tried to avoid confrontation, but maybe he thought that you were happy?

About the affairs, is it one man or whoever takes your fancy? Maybe it's a turn on for him. Do you tell him about what you do? And would you really be OK with him having an affair to ease your guilt?

Cheers,
MADDOG

MADDOG: I never really HAD those feelings of wanting someone else to call the shots until I began having phone sex... then cyber sex... then real sex. It was the first time I had men telling ME what to do, not asking how they can please me. And it felt wonderful! I actually did think I was happy before, when in reality, I was just kept busy being a room mother, a soccer mom, a home-away-from-home mom to all my kids friends - and getting sex the one night a week that my husband is home was always fine... it's when the "being a mom" part of being a mom ended, when my kids got their license and went to their friends with their problems instead of mom, that I realized that, without them, I was really very lonely and unhappy and unfulfilled. I wonder if this happens alot with stay at home moms whose husbands are gone alot? I'd be curious to know if there is a higher majority of women in that category who have affairs.

At any rate, about the affairs, I have had 3 different men altogether. One was basicly a short 2 week affair w/ someone local I met in online, but the other two have been going on for quite awhile - one, age 26, for nearly a year, the other, age 19, for nearly 2. My husband does not know the details, NOR DOES HE WANT TO. And yes, I would like for him to have an affair, because it is not so much guilt that I feel, as I would just like for him to know how happy and satisfying it is, and that all work and no play makes one a very dull person! My dream would be to sell this farm that is not a farm but a stone around my neck, and to move to the city and live in an apartment and go to clubs and just have FUN! And my husband is my total opposite; if I cannot convince him that money isn't everything, that life isn't worth living without really LIVING, then I really feel that we are going to have to go our separate ways. The only reason I have not done this yet is because he has made it plain to me that my leaving him would devastate him, that my infidelities mean nothing to him as long as I stay. And I love him too much to ever want to do anything to hurt him! Aaagh! I have never been so happy, yet so miserable, in my entire life. How could anyone be married to someone so forgiving, and want to hurt that person? It's the last thing I would ever want to do to him, and yet... for both our happiness and sanity, I know that I will have to do that, because I think that, in the long run, staying to keep him happy will actually hurt him more.

If anyone has any comments, suggestions, whatever... I am more than happy to listen. I have been wrestling with this for so long now without anyone to actually talk to (except for those who are biased in their opinions: my husband and my lovers - no one else knows about this) that it's about time I had a third person perspective.

EOD

 

[Sammyjo]

EOD - Coming from a single mother, I know it is soooo hard to be father, mother, and decision maker. I don't HAVE the husband, so that negates the cheating part, but I know exactly what you are saying.

I met someone online (actually the first few days I went online) that really clicked with me. We talked about everything. Our hopes, fears, dreams, fantasies, everything. We eventually moved from solely computer chat to talking on the phone. The phone led to phone sex. I never thought I could be so happy to have finally found someone that I could talk to. I didn't know how I was going to see him, but I knew I was going to make a sacrifice and go see him eventually. Finally, 9 months later, we met and had the most fantastic weekend.

In the 4 years I had been a mother. I had NOT been a woman. I had not had sex or even been on a date in four years. This man showed me the importance of spending time with the opposite sex. How can I explain it without sounding melodramatic? I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

People sometimes go through life doing "what they are supposed to do" never thinking that it may not be what the want to do. The truth of the matter is, I was missing something in my life. The love and companionship of another human being. One who listened to me and helped me cope when things got rough. Someone who loved me enough to wait for me. Someone who respected my feelings, who was willing to call the shots because I no longer wanted to. He has given me exactly what I need. He always knows when I need to have my spirits lifted, or when I need a swift kick in the butt. He's always there for me and he always will be there for me.

My daughter is going to be 6 this summer. I have a long way to go before I get to that "empty-nest syndrome" you describe. I just know that I need to take time for me. If I am not completely happy in all facets of my life, then I can't be a good mother to my daughter.

I think things are headed in the right direction. I have this cute 21 year old after me. Not that I think he's THE ONE, but he's what I need right now.

I don't condone extramarital affairs. Well, maybe I do. I think there are circumstances surrounding them that make me understand. I guess it's those people that blurt out "I cheated on my spouse, give me a cookie" that really get to me. No explanation of their pain or their feelings causes me to not feel anything for them. I understand why you need more. I hope that you are happy. And if you need to talk, I am here.

sammy

 

[Guest]

Well I can easily say that I love my wife more then anything in the world. If you EOD really loved your husband you would not have an affair. Sounds to me like he is just too weak of a man to be tuff-e-nuff to say "YOU BITCH!!!!". I can honestly say that I don't have any thoughts of an affair and mine and my wife's relationship is far from the greatest (sexual that is). I will also honestly say that if she took the chance on crushing my soul for a measly 40 minutes of hot sex and throwing the last 12 years down the tubes, than the feeling of love is far from mutual and seperation/divorce is in order. (something you should think about EOD)
Don't give me this shit about new life/kids/husband never home/feeling good about yourself. I don't buy it, do your husband a favour and divorce him so he can go find someone who knows true meaning of vows. He is probably putting up with it because he is vulnerable and doesn't know what to do like almost 90% of the people in that situation, man or woman. Believe me, I have not met a single person who actually likes the fact that their spouce is out messing around but I have met a few that say they do!

 

[Golden]

I'm totally with you Eve_of_D ... lay off the moral crap, everyone!

yeah you've hinted before and I kinda worked it out; probably because as you will have worked out if you've read between MY lines, I'm invovled in something not totally dissimilar, but on the other end, so to speak. I have a fantastic marriage and I'd put big money on us making it right up to the till death us do part bit; we also have great sex, still, despite 21 years of marriage - and 7 years before that too! But it is all rather occasional and not over adventurous, which is how Mrs G likes it; on the other hand, there is a couple we have been close to for 25 years ... they are older than we are (now he's 61 and she is 55); childless for a series of tragic reasons, which left him feeling guilty and that combined with his poor health means he hasn't screwed his wife for 15 years, and didn't do it much before that ... we started our affair within a year of my getting married; I was 24 , she was 34, it was soooo naughty and fantastically exciting, dangerous, experimental - all those things.

Over the years it has kind of settled down into a routine which suits all four of us - I get nearly all the sex I can handle, and I have the privilege of being responsible for the sexual pleasure of two wonderful women, which is one more than I could reasonably ask for; Mrs G gets me whenever she wants with no pressure on her when she is busy in her head being mother, worker, etc. M feels better now that he can absolve himself from sexual "duties" and it is very much his preference that his wife has a long-term lover who he happens to know and like; and A is at least not suffering as you, Eve, and so many other women, once the husband's pecker packs in the job.

It ain't perfect, and it's pretty mystifying for those people who have gotten some wind of what happens in the curious menage a quatre ... we live less than a mile apart, see each other socially as a foursome ... A is a little indiscreet and has told several friends or hinted to others and sadly some have chosen to cut the four of us rather than let us get on with it. To further complicate matters, about 3 years before Mrs G and I married she had a summer affair with M! (just to complete the circle!)

All that said, I don't think it will last for ever; I do find it difficult sometimes to make quality time for my own family and for a lover; and sometimes it is like having two marriages ... I guess my flirting on this BB is symptomatic that I've started to get restless;

But anyway all I meant to do was come on this thread and say to Eve_of_D that I think what you are doing is brave and grown-up and morally fine by me; way to go girl; so long as you can deal with the problem all single people have when their married lovers have commitments ... it is recommended in these situations that both be married or the married lover is prepared to help the single lover cope with the loneliness; you also have to deal with your children - they may still love and respect the Dad who has drifted apway from you; and it also sounds as if your marriage is not going to last - our friends, on the other hand, are inseparable emotionally and will never split.

but you know all about the hard parts; just remember you don't need to describe it as scandalous, because it would only be that if you were leaving a trail of destruction which, despite your handle... I don't think you are.

I just wish - and the more so once I'd seen your gorgeous back - you were into guys my age not "his" ....

peace and love and strength to you, E...


[This message has been edited by golden (edited 03-27-2000).]

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

Golden and Sammyjo... I just want to hug the both of you! Golden, you are so lucky in finding another couple whose sexual mores match those of you and your wife's... and, I'd say, Mrs. G is one very special lady also, to accept the "menage a quatre", as you call it. And Sammyjo, yes, I know exactly what you are talking about... for years, I felt as if I didn't really even have a name; I was always "M's wife", "D's mom", "H's sister", etc... and these affairs have made me realize that I am someone other than an extension of the people I love. I have spent time with these two men other than sexually; we go to parks, museums, rent movies and hang out, etc. They make me laugh, make me feel good about myself! They balance me, make me feel whole, in ways my husband never has. And yet, I still cannot fault him for these shortcomings. He was brought up to believe that providing for your family was more important than the family itself. I asked him once, after the boys were grown and I had began to feel this emptyness, if, on his deathbed, would he feel comfort in knowing he'd been a good provider, or would he regret the fact that he hardly knows his kids? I had hoped that he would at least have said, "Both", but he didn't bat an eye when he replied, "I will take more comfort in knowing that my family was provided for."

This is the sadness that I feel the most, that it is a passage of my life that is coming to an end. But I know that it must end. I feel guilty for having a husband who is such a good person, who is not abusive, and who loves me very much, while so many women would give their right arm for a man like that! What I don't feel guilty about is the fact that I am changing, that my needs and wants are now different than his. At one time it was important that I lived in a beautiful home and that I drove an expensive car, but no more. These things mean nothing without someone to share and enjoy them with. Most women would probably think it would be the greatest thing in the world, to have a man come home, hand over his paycheck to you, and leave... not me. He can keep the paycheck, cause love and companionship are far more important.

And Feeling Distressed: I am so happy for you, that you have a good, loving marriage. Keep working at it, hopefully someday the sex will be as good as the marriage is.

EOD.

 

[BluRomeo]

EOD,

Although, i can't say that i agree with your solution. i can say, that at least you did something! many people go through life in a rut, and it's not that they are unable to get out. . . they just don't have the will!

You did what you could to improve your situation. weather it is right or wrong isn't for anyone in this BBoard to say.

now i know i am not a woman, but i am married and i believe we are both very happy. i hope if the day comes and my wife is getting fed up with her life she will have the same strength as you and confront me about it.

love and peace

BR

 

[Unclebill]

Eve,

I read your post and was touched especially by the comment 'but he didn't bat an eye when he replied, "I will take more comfort in knowing that my family was provided for."'. What's he doesn't realize is that he didn't provide what they needed most; the father who would teach them to be fathers (you post sounds like you have only sons). Being a father is much more than providing shelter and food. I learned that late; fortunately, it was not entirely too late but it was too late learned to be the good father I should have been. I am making up for that in some small measure by being a better grandfather than I ever was a father.

It sounds like you married a good man who didn't know how to be a husband and father but was a good provider. I see a little of myself in your description but not to the extreme. I have a terrific relationship with my eldest daughter in whom I take great pride acknowledging that I am her father. She lives her life in a fashion which makes me proud of her and that despite the times we were at each others' throats, she did adopt my values of honor, honesty, integrity and responsibility.

I get the impression that the empty nest experience is still new. If that's the case, maybe now albeit belatedly, you can help him learn to be the husband he never knew how to be. Of course that presupposes that he's willing to make the changes to offer you what he's never provided before.

Part of the behavior you described sounds almost like when he was home, having you make the decisions was his chance to not have to be the 'provider' for a brief time. When you could 'take over', he could let down a bit and recover to continue.

You post sounds as though you loved him at the outset and still do but you missed out on having the life partner you once thought you had married. Now that you aren't neglecting the kids, you are trying to capture what has been the missing ingredient and while you're enjoying it, it's also hurting you because you feel to some extent that you're betraying him. Personally, I see it as less than betrayal because he's not able to offer what you always needed and wanted.

You're certainly in a situation I don't envy. You apparently love and respect him for being faithful and being the provider although he fell short as husband and father. If it hasn't already happened, maybe the two of you can have a real, down to the nitty-gritty heart-to-heart conversation (or several) perhaps even with a professional counselor who can help him develop the skills to be what you thought you married.

From the tone of your writing, it sounds as though he still loves you as he indicated that your leaving would devastate him. On the other hand (and I hate the way this sounds), perhaps the devastation to which he alluded is the loss of a purpose, i.e., the kids are grown and without you, there's no one for whom he's the provider any longer. If that's the case, perhaps professional help could modify his attitude and behavior because that is an unhealthy "need" rather than a healthy relationship.

As I said, I certainly don't envy your dilemma. I wish you the best of luck in working things out. My heart hurts for you.

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

Thank you, unclebill. The comments you made were quite accurate. My husband is a very quiet man, and he has never uttered a harsh word to me. His idea of an argument has always been to just clam up and let me do all the talking. I've made several attempts at having a heart-to-heart with him, to no avail.

I am not in any way placing all the blame on my husband. For one reason or another, at this point in my life, I felt the need to "sow my wild oats", something I missed out on because I married so young.

My husband was my first and only love; we began dating when I was 16 and he was 18. We married less than 2 years later - not because we "had" to, but simply because we wanted to... Most all our friends were doing the same thing, only because there was an unplanned pregnancy, and in this conservative, midwest farm community where I was raised, there would have been more of a scandal had the couple not married or aborted the child. But we didn't have to get married for that reason, we were just stupidly in love. I even gave up a scholorship because he didn't want to leave his job in the community where we live in order for me to be in driving distance of the university. The thought of waiting 4 years to get married simply wasn't an option at that time - God, how I wish someone would have talked some sense into me back then, I cannot imagine letting one of my children today give up a scholorship!

So now, 21 years later, I sow those wild oats. And I'm not quite through yet, I've kinda grown fond of the taste of wild oats. Sorry for the bad analogies, but I start spouting them ad nauseum whenever I am, as Hendrix would say, "Not necessarily stoned, just... beautiful".

And yes, because of all these things, the heart-to-heart is going to have to come, sooner or later - and I plan to have it as soon as he gets home this weekend. I will keep you all posted as to the outcome.

EOD

 

[Slut_boy]

Eve, I realise that your husband is a workaholic and that because of this he has not paid you the attention which you deserve - and so you got that from elsewhere - I understand all that and appreciate your decision. But there is something less clear from what you have told us: if your husband, during the course of the heart-to-heart were to offer to make a huge life-style change for you in a gesture of love and reconcilliation, then how would you respond?

I hope that wasn't too personal.

 

[Unclebill]

Eve, since he clams up on you, you may want to look into convincing him to join you in consultation with a professional who may be able to get him to open up. From what you've stated so far, I doubt he will respond much differently than he has in the past. That's always worked for him with you.

If the two of you consult with a pro, I suspect the pro will sometimes have you in together and other times separately. That may provide the avenue to open communications which is critical to a good relationship.

Best wishes. Sorry I'm not close enough to help you with your sowing.

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

Slut boy... Should my husband declare that he will, from now on, devote more time to me and our children, it would be one of those "I'd have to see it to believe it" responses from me. I think that he would at first give it a try, but, if you are very rigid in your personality, as he is, I don't think that he would be successful in this attempt. You cannot CHANGE who you are, your basic personality, unless something radical happens in your lifestyle, as it did to me. My change was realizing that life was passing me by, and I wasn't getting any younger - if I wanted to have any fun at all, I needed to begin ASAP! But my husband has always been very mellow, low-key, and conservative, and I think that it would be almost cruel for me to demand that he change to please me. My idea of a good life, right now, would be to sell our home and acreage, move into a small apartment, and take the money and SPEND some of it: Go to Memphis for a weekend to the blues clubs on Beale Street; go to Chicago the next weekend to the downtown dance clubs; have friends over to play cards or go out dancing. His idea of doing something is to stay up to watch the Late Show with David Letterman instead of going to bed!

When the boys were young, this was all well and good... but now, with time just passing me by, it's not. I have procrastinated far too long already... and hopefully this weekend, I will be able to talk with my husband as openly and honestly as possible to let him know of my wants and needs for our future. If he wants to be a part of that future, he will have to open up, or, as uncle bill said, at least be willing to consider professional counseling.

Thanks again, everyone, for all your comments.

Peace,
EOD

 

[Slut_boy]

Dearest Eve,

Thanks for the reply. I have often wondered why it is that people feel obliged to 'belong' to one person only. I am convinced marraige (as an institution) has been shaped, in time, by the mores of the church (in this context also as an institution). But the values of the church are mutually opposed to human nature. The point that I am trying to make is that the forces which pull you apart are real 'life forces' whilst those that try to morally force you back together are 'institutional forces' and by definition man made.

When man clashes with nature, then pain and unhappiness are bound to follow. I have never felt that any one person should 'belong' to any one other. There is something so fucking evil about man's desire to want to 'have' things under his control. You can't 'have' people. Yet this insane idea is embedded so far up the church's ass that brides even recite their wedding vows to reflect this attitude : "to honour and cherish......to honour and obey..."

You belong to yourself only, Eve. Life is short and you owe it to yourself to live while you can. To enjoy the blues and to rock to the sounds of New Orleans, etc. And above all - I am convinced that you have the right to do it without having to apologize for it.

That is more than just a part of what it means to be a human being - its exactly the essence of being human.

Good luck, lil' slut sis.



[This message has been edited by slut_boy (edited 03-31-2000).]

 

[Gil]

Oh Eve, how I feel for you.

You sound like you've given your situation a lot of thought from both his and your perspectives and have reached your own conclusions.

Except for a two and half year 'aberration' when I was in my mid-thirties, I have been single my entire life. And married or single, I have had to learn to deal with the loneliness of not having someone to share my life with. I mean share almost everything; your secret desires, dreams, confidences, feelings, etc. I feel that a true relationship should never have any doors that two people are afraid to open and at least look inside.

Also, (excellent commentary, slut-boy) two people can never and should never, try to own each other. I have observed that it always leads to frustration and unhappiness.

How can I say this? Well, let me give everyone a chance to dump on me and take some of the heat off you Eve

I, as a single man, have slept with many married women over the years. Some I knew were married before and with some I only discovered their marital status after consumating our relationship.

Anyway, in almost every case, these women were looking for friendship, kindness, affection, tenderness, caring concern and INTIMACY...A combination of any or all of the above. In ALL cases, as we talked, they were all frustrated and full of despair over their truly unhappy lives. The only real advice I ever gave them was to ask them 'what did they envision their lives would be like in ten or twenty years, if things continued unchanged?'

I know that personally, when I reach the end of my path, I will truly regret the things that I didn't do more than some of those things that I did.

And yes for those of you who think I'm thoroughly despicable, I did pay a price for my behaviour. Unfortunately, I fell in love with one of these married women, who in spite of being equally in love with me, for various reasons chose to stay with her husband, breaking my heart. She left him years later, but by then, it was too late for us.

The real downside to all this is that once you discover true love; the one with whom you feel that magic 'spark', you can never settle for anything less.

Eve, go find that someone...and don't look back!

 

[Golden]

Guiding principle of mine is that the one person I am certain to spend the rest of my life with is ... myself. So the relatinship with myself has to work. If that sounds a licence to be selfish well, to an extent I believe we do have to look out for ourselves because we are not going to be genuine and honest with other if we are living a life of denial. To thine own self be true Eve.

And I'm please to see this thread has develo-ped with lots of support for you - We all seem to be on your side!

 

[Guest]

I guess I am missing something here. I don't understand how you can just have an affair and then call yourself the victim. The real victim is your spouse.

 

[Gil]

Oh Carrie from CA,

To be so young again; it's easier to see everything in Black and White. God bless, girl.

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

Carrie, when I first read your reply, I couldn't have agreed with you more. Although I do not feel like I am a victim, it does seem as if my husband is. But, after thinking about this, how could he be a victim if he does not care that I have affairs, and he is content with his life? We had about a half an hour together today, and during that time I told him about a concert I am attending next week, and that, should he be home that night, he shouldn't worry when I don't come home, as I am staying in the city with one of my lovers - which I also told him about. He just said that he hopes I have a good time, and that it would be doubtful if he will make it home that early anyhow.

This is the way it has been since last summer, when I told him everything. He wasn't upset, except to say that he loved me and did not want to lose me... his only request was that I use protection and discretion, which of course I have.

I feel so torn over what to do. If he accepts the situation as it stands, and does not want me to leave, who am I to rock the boat? And yet, as long as he continues to be faithful to me, I continue to feel racked with guilt.

Golden, let me ask you this: Does Mrs. G see anyone on the side? If not, how does she feel about your lover... What I am trying to say is that, perhaps there really are spouses who just want their husband or wife to be happy and content, and if that means extramarital affairs, so be it. My husband's first response, when he heard about my affairs, was, "It's a wonder you made it this long without taking a lover" (in referrence to all the years - since we were first married - that he has been an over the road truckdriver).

And slut boy, a lot of the guilt I am feeling is probably due to, not only religious upbringing, but small town values and morals... makes me wish I had been raised in Europe where there are more open minded people and you are brought up to know that sex is the most natural thing in the world - something that more Americans need to realize.

EOD

 

[Golden]

Eve, no she doesn't; occasionally jokes about lack of opportunity (kids, work, house, me, we all get in the way ....) but I think it's a genuine lack of desire to.
We were lovers when she was 15 and I was 17 (I was her first, she my third); before getting married we dated for 6-7 years through end of school, college, starting work - in different parts of the country, so we came together for spells but were apart a lot too; in that time she had maybe a dozen lovers and she has said to friends in my presence - if she hadn't done all that aged 16-22 prior to marrying me, she'd probably hanker for it now,
To explain why she is cool about the situation? I think it's a combination of: shifts responsibility for dealing with my libido; genuinely not a physically jealous or possessive person; prepared to make sacrifices to keep me; probably knows I have a level of guilt which she can exploit - though all that sounds terribly Machiavellian and calculating, and she would actually be unable to explain this to herself let alone to anyone else - talking about feelings is not her strong suit!

 

[Guest]

this is a really interesting discussion.

I don't think there can ever be a clear cut answer. I think that because people are living much longer than they ever did in the past ('cause of medicine and better standards of living), we're only now realising how difficult it is for two people to stay exclusively with each other for their whole lives.

in the last century - when life expectancy was, I dunno 40 years or whatever - it wasn't as much of an issue. plus the church and society had a much stronger hold on people then.

I think, like Slut Boy, that human's aren't naturally monogamous. the primitive part of our brain is still telling us to go out and fuck anything that moves - 'make more babies, keep the species going', and all that.

the problem is that - although, I think it's natural to want to sleep with a lot of people - the way we've been brainwashed by society into believing that sex is bad and that marriage is the ONLY option, means that it's very hard to keep a relationship going if one or both partners are cheating. someone is going to get hurt somewhere down the line.

I know this from personal experience. I was the one who cheated. I split up with my girlfriend in January this year. We were together 10 years (she was 19, I was 21 when we first started going out). for about 9 of those years we lived 90 miles apart from each other. she was on the west coast of scotland. I was on the east. this was a kind of weird set-up to begin with but we ended up having a great, really loving relationship. we phoned each other every 2 or 3 days and spent every second weekend together. we were completely honest with each other, and could talk about anything. we were silly and spontaneous, and had a lot of fun. we got to a stage where sex was excellent with each other. I classed Aud as my best friend, as well as my girlfriend.

it worked really well 'cause we were together but we were independent, too. we gave each other enough space that when we DID meet up we always had a wonderful time.

but, because neither of us had had much sexual experience with other people before we met, I think we both often fantasised about what the grass was like on the other side. what was it like having sex with other people? we split up a couple of times, because of this, and went out with other people but we never cheated while we were together.

but, a year and a half ago an opportunity came up. I was drunk and it was a total fantasy-come-true scenario. I ended up having sex with this girl. it was wild and exciting and fun. it was like being a teenager again but also having all these years of sexual experience from being with Aud - finding out what she liked in bed.

I thought I could handle it. I thought I'd be able to just keep it a secret and my relationship with Aud would just carry on as it was. but I just couldn't. the stress was unbelievable. this was the first secret I'd ever had to keep from her in 9 years together. I acted weird around her. I was sure she could read in my face that something was up.

it was like our whole relationship totally changed. I wasn't open and honest anymore. I was closed and having to analyse everything I said incase I somehow gave the game away.

in the end I had to tell her. it broke her heart. it really knocked her self-confidence and I felt like a complete shit. we probably should have split there and then but neither of us could handle the idea of being alone.

*it's a terrifying thought - maybe that's why your husband is so understanding of your affair, Eve. he maybe just doesn't want to rock the boat because he's scared of ending up having nobody*

anyway - Aud wanted us to stay together, and we did for a whole other year... basically long enough for her to build up her self-confidence again and start getting a new social life totally separate from me.

we've somehow managed to stay friends - but only because our relationship was so strong before I fucked things up.

now, I'm trying out being a bit of a slut for a while. hopefully, if I meet someone else I want to spend my life with, I'll have got all of this out of my system, so that I can stay faithful to them.

sorry this has turned into a bit of an epic but it was good to get all this off my chest.

 

[Rachel Picabia]

Hey, Simian. What you doing in here? This is my end of town. This why I couldn't get on the computer the other day?

sarkycow
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