What makes it BDSM for you?

[Mei5ter]

What do you think makes a relationship a BDSM one?

Is it the kink, or the emotional domination/submission aspect?

For example, if someone submits in all other aspects of their life to their partner, but their sex life is solely vanilla, is that still BDSM?

There seem to be so many different views and interpretations here, which sometimes raise their heads in other threads, but I hope a fresh look at this might be interesting.

Go!

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I think that for a relationship to be a BDSM relationship the partners agree that it is and have at least an understanding or agreement of what that entails. While some people are naturally more dominant or submissive, that doesn’t automatically make a relationship BDSM. At least, it wouldn’t to me.

 

[Mei5ter]

I think that for a relationship to be a BDSM relationship the partners agree that it is and have at least an understanding or agreement of what that entails. While some people are naturally more dominant or submissive, that doesn’t automatically make a relationship BDSM. At least, it wouldn’t to me.

I think that's right - you can have one person very much in charge without the relationship feeling like a BDSM one. But I think the difference may lie in your phrase "what that entails." I'd be interested to know more about what you feel that does entail?

 

[devilish_desires_couple]

For us, I don’t take my wife. When she submits, she gives herself to me. It sounds kind of cheesy but it’s true.

A lot of it is psychological as well. I don’t always need to bind her physically. I will tell her what to do and she will do it.

 

[ashkitten]

Mutual intent.

 

[KinzyTaylor]

.....

 

[seela]

I think that for a relationship to be a BDSM relationship the partners agree that it is and have at least an understanding or agreement of what that entails. While some people are naturally more dominant or submissive, that doesn’t automatically make a relationship BDSM. At least, it wouldn’t to me.

This pretty much covers it for me, too.

There would have to be some element of bondage, discipline, dominance, submission, sadism or masochism happening. How those elements are manifested varies. The partners would have to be on the same page that those elements are desired and consensual. After that, as long as the partners are in agreement that they're doing BDSM, it is BDSM.

I would like to add that maybe it also has to be sexual at the bottom of it all. I don't mean sexual in the overt manner that it always involves your genitals or active arousal, but sexual in the way that deep down you get sexual, acknowledged pleasure from the relationship.

That rules out most "traditional, conservative" relationships. A traditional male-led relationship à la multiple religions, for example, is not BDSM despite it looking a lot like a BDSM D/s relationship. The D/s doesn't come from a sexual source but rather from a cultural and I doubt very many people in such relationships would think of what they're doing as BDSM.

I also don't think anybody on the outside can define other people's relationships or general shenanigans as BDSM or non-BDSM. I know someone who loves being tied and taken pictures of when she's all shibaried up. She says it's relaxing, visually stunning, she feels herself beautiful in ropes and it turns her on. But she doesn't think what she's doing is BDSM, despite it clearly being the B element of BDSM and it also is sexual for her on top of the other reasons why she enjoys it. More power to her. It's not my or anybody else's place to force a label on her.

The umbrella is wide, I don't see the need to define neatly what is or isn't BDSM.

 

[SissySalina]

What do you think makes a relationship a BDSM one?

Is it the kink, or the emotional domination/submission aspect?

For example, if someone submits in all other aspects of their life to their partner, but their sex life is solely vanilla, is that still BDSM?

There seem to be so many different views and interpretations here, which sometimes raise their heads in other threads, but I hope a fresh look at this might be interesting.

Go!

OP- How do You define BDSM?
To you what does the B & D & S & M stand for?
How you define that determines how a BDSM relationship is defined, is the relationship a sum of the parts? Or would 3 out of 4 do?

 

[Mei5ter]

Hello SS,

Very fair question. I've taken BDSM as an abbreviation for

Bondage (and discipline)
Dominance (and submission)
Sadism
Masochism.

I have absolutely no views on whether you need some or all of these for a relationship to be considered a BDSM one. And it's entirely fair to query whether those four things can even be grouped together in a meaningful way. I'm starting to get a sense that one of these is the odd one out, but it's still early days...

 

[PrettyLilPussy19]

What do you think makes a relationship a BDSM one?

Is it the kink, or the emotional domination/submission aspect?

For example, if someone submits in all other aspects of their life to their partner, but their sex life is solely vanilla, is that still BDSM?

There seem to be so many different views and interpretations here, which sometimes raise their heads in other threads, but I hope a fresh look at this might be interesting.

Go!

I think it has to include intent and consent.
Some people are rough during sex. Or bossy or subdued. But without the intent for kink and power exchange, I think it might as well be classified as vanilla.
It also has to be consensual. All sex has to be consensual but what I mean is - equitable and enthusiastic. And I specify this because you asked about a 'relationship' as opposed to an experience. One partner can talk another into trying something new but for it to be an important part of the relationship both or all partners need to be equally into it.

 

[cookiecat]

I think it has to include intent and consent.
Some people are rough during sex. Or bossy or subdued. But without the intent for kink and power exchange, I think it might as well be classified as vanilla.
It also has to be consensual. All sex has to be consensual but what I mean is - equitable and enthusiastic. And I specify this because you asked about a 'relationship' as opposed to an experience. One partner can talk another into trying something new but for it to be an important part of the relationship both or all partners need to be equally into it.

I like this, PLP.

I started answering last night but had to put the question away to think about it. The answer I started was more about a D/s relationship and not a BDSM relationship.

I equate BDSM more as an experience - as PLP mentions - vs a relationship. Can I have a D/s relationship without BDSM? I think so.

Can I have a BDSM relationship without D/s? I think there's a fine line between Dom / Top and sub / bottom. I don't have to be in love with the person I want to have that BDSM experience with. I can be tied up, spanked or caned, satisfy someone's sadism, enjoy my hurt without the "relationship" part.

I'd rather have this happen within a loving, on-going, lasting relationship. However, I am NOT in that kind of relationship at the moment and I still want BDSM monkey business. I can find that with Toppy friends.

 

[SissySalina]

Do feel that BDSM is like LGBT it is a group of similar off the norm things and does not have to be all to qualify to be BDSM. It also may or may not be sexual in nature.

 

[Lascivity]

It's a sex thing - for me at least. But other than that I feel like BDSM has a pretty wide remit. If someone says their relationship is founded on BDSM I figure they're 100% correct, even if they're totally vanilla in the bedroom. If they feel like there's an enjoyable element of bondage, submission, domination, or whatever in their relationship, then that'll do it.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I think mutual agreements and the BDSM element being a core part of the sexual relationship.

If you're just casually or incidentally kinky I don't consider that a BDSM relationship.

 

[Mei5ter]

I think Sissy was asking for your input on in in your life, not a definition.


Spill...

Thank you, but I want to hear what everyone else has to say rather than just the sound of my own voice.

Does that make me an outlier for my gender?

 

[Mei5ter]

I like this, PLP.

I started answering last night but had to put the question away to think about it. The answer I started was more about a D/s relationship and not a BDSM relationship.

I equate BDSM more as an experience - as PLP mentions - vs a relationship. Can I have a D/s relationship without BDSM? I think so.

Can I have a BDSM relationship without D/s? I think there's a fine line between Dom / Top and sub / bottom. I don't have to be in love with the person I want to have that BDSM experience with. I can be tied up, spanked or caned, satisfy someone's sadism, enjoy my hurt without the "relationship" part.

I'd rather have this happen within a loving, on-going, lasting relationship. However, I am NOT in that kind of relationship at the moment and I still want BDSM monkey business. I can find that with Toppy friends.

Hi Cookie (although answers from all welcome),

Thank you for this. You've clarified several things for me in a very interesting way.

It seems from your response, and from others here too, that D/S differs somewhat from other aspects grouped together under the BDSM umbrella (which I'm imagining has a really sharp ferrule...). I am sure this is a gross oversimplification, but would it be fair to say that submission is a constant state of mind, while spanking or bondage last solely for the length of that session?

Or is submission something which can also be confined to the bedroom and compartmentalised from other aspects of a relationship?

 

[Acktion]

Heyla, Meister.

Good question.

The way I've always known BDSM is to stand for Bondage and Discipline, Dominance and Submission, and Sadism and Masochism.

Bondage and Discipline is easy. Is someone getting tied up? Spankings can fall here or in S/m. But, what about other modes of Discipline?

Likewise, Sadism and Masochism seems to be pretty easy. Is there sensation play going on, and particularly some that delve into some flavor or another of pain?

Dominance and Submission, however, is a bit trickier to tell just exactly when it is happening, I think.

In my experiences...

Well, I'm more than a bit of a Dominant personality. At one point in my life, crossing the line into domineering.

And, yeah, in one of my very first forays (over three decades ago), I was the jackass like some have mentioned who was very much "my way or the highway" as we basically rediscovered the 24/7 TPE M/s, but in all the worst and bordering on abusive ways. I'm not proud of that. And even less proud of the fact that I can't hide behind an excuse of inexperience since the root of it was anger and bitterness.

My wife of two and half decades changed everything for me. I gave her the nickname "Love" because that was what she was. The embodiment of love. The woman who taught me what love was, and how-to.

And we were very much 24/7 D/s. Just what as varied. Primarily Daddy/little with some Master/slave. I ruled our little home (except for that damn screwdriver in the kitchen drawer) for all our time together, because that was how we both wished it.

Nor was it all about sex (although there was enough of that to sate even the most hardened satyr, and I should know). When we were going to eat out, I would ask her exactly once if she had a preference, while we were still getting ready. If she said she did not, then I picked the restaurant and ordered for her. This made her happy because she didn't have to make a decision if she didn't want to.

By the same token... I don't micromanage.

I've done that. Working the detention units, I told those guys (some a foot taller and a hundred pounds heavier) when to get up, when to go to sleep, when to eat, when to drink, when to piss and shit. Every moment of every day I said what they could do, what they should do, and what they wouldn't like how it turned out if they tried.

***shrug*** Not knocking anyone if you are into that. It's just not my ball of wax. Anymore.

Probably about seventy percent of the time, I will sit with my mouth shut and just watch as... whatever she chooses to do unfolds. If I have some reason (usually safety concerns) to wonder if this is a good plan, I will talk with her about it. And maybe twenty-percent of the time, once I know she is conscious of the risks, then I will just cheer her on and get ready to pick up the pieces if I need to. The remaining ten percent of the time... we can talk about it, we can argue about it, but at the end of the day it will be done my way. No "or else" required. And not because I say, but because she is smart enough to know I've got a clue and will listen to what I'm telling her.

From a submissive's stand-point... I admit, I'm just not wired to "get it."

Oh, intellectually, I understand that they feel the appeal of letting go, of not being the one driving. Of not having to make every fucking decision.

But, that would drive me nuts.

Actually, I have to watch myself. Because if there is something I want to do, but then someone tells me to, I have a tendency to buck. I'm not as bad about it these days as I was three decades ago when I stared down the barrel of a pistol and told him he might as well pull the trigger because it wasn't going to happen. But, anything smelling remotely like "you have to" will get my back up to show that I don't.

And, I wandered a little far afield there.

But, yeah. The thing is, I think, there are ropebunnies who aren't necessarily submissive. There are masochists who aren't necessarily submissive. And even within the realm of submission, there is a virtual cornucopia of modes of submission.

And vice-versa, there are Riggers who aren't Dominants. There are Sadists who aren't. And even within the realm of Dominance, there is a slew of modes of Domination.

At the end of the day... mine anyway... I think that a D/s relationship is pretty much just like any other relationship. And the secret is always gonna be to find the one (or One) who resonates with your frequency.

Any road, it's probably far past time I stop masticating old memories and old opinions like a cud and pass the floor to someone with less manure on their boots.

But, any row you have to hoe, I'll raise a sarsparilla to bumper crops for you and yours (or Yours) today.

 

[cookiecat]

Hi Cookie (although answers from all welcome),

Thank you for this. You've clarified several things for me in a very interesting way.

It seems from your response, and from others here too, that D/S differs somewhat from other aspects grouped together under the BDSM umbrella (which I'm imagining has a really sharp ferrule...). I am sure this is a gross oversimplification, but would it be fair to say that submission is a constant state of mind, while spanking or bondage last solely for the length of that session?

Or is submission something which can also be confined to the bedroom and compartmentalised from other aspects of a relationship?

I think it's different for each person, the sub in the bedroom or submissive all the time.

As Fara mentioned, she and her guy are equals but she is submissive to him sexually.

I look for a relationship that allows me to be submissive all the time. I find that having one leader and one follower within a relationship works best for me. I can't say it's always true. I'm not always this service oriented uber sub. Plus I like to do what I want when I want, so there's that.

So yes, for me, BDSM is NOT a state of mind. Submission is.

Thinking of myself as submissive creates a more thoughtful mindset. Putting someone else before me, thinking of his/her happiness before mine gives me a sense of peace. I like myself when I'm more giving, when I stop talking and become a better listener. I like feeling softer, more open. Not just in my sex life but in all aspects of my life.

That wasn't me before D/s. I was all hard edges and the ball buster. In a cute funny way, of course. Discovering D/s blurred those edges.

For sure, it's not always like this. I'm inherently selfish. I think I'm always right. It's not easy to trust. I have to work at keeping submission in the front of my head. I'm not in a relationship right now so I'm not exactly speaking from a place of authority at the moment.

Ok! Submissive diatribe over. Not sure if this move the conversation forward.

 

[cookiecat]

This has always been such a point of interest with you, because you and I are friends, and our approaches are very alike. It gives me pause, and makes me wonder, if I, as a nurturer, am MORE submissive than i think I am. Or want to admit, because for a long time i fought against it.
Maybe the S is the most important. I focus on the sexuality and the pain, but I truly get off on taking care of him.

Yup. I get the fighting it.

But doesn't it feel good to let go of some of that control? Just enjoy yourself with him? Find pleasure in taking care of his needs? Even in the littlest ways.

Not overthinking.

We still have to be the boss in a lot of areas of our lives. It's always a pretty tricky balancing act.

 

[Acktion]

cookie and Fara...

I admit that this is something that I had to do a lot of soul searching about over the last few years. At one point, it confused me quite a bit.

So... yeah, just in case there is anyone who might not know, I came late to the LDR party. For three decades of BDSM activity (that I'm allowed to admit to), it was all face-to-face and organic. And we didn't do just a whole lot of talking beyond "oh, fuck yeah, more of that" or "ow! Fuck! Let's not do that shit again," because... well, we were too busy doing to worry about talking.

I knew... eh... some things. Maybe more than the average bear, yogi. But, the insights into just what made my submissives' nipples pucker, at least so far as the emotions and thought process involved was... murky at best.

Oh, I knew when she needed to be cuddled and held and just listen to her talk it out, and when she needed me to pin her down, rip her clothes off, tie her down face down with a wedge pillow at her hips, fit her with a butt plug, insert a vibrating dildo in her pussy, and hold the hitachi wand against her clitoris with my left hand while swinging a flogger against her back with my right...

But, the thing is... the reason for my Dominance was to take care of her.

And it wasn't until after Love's death, when I started poking around online (where all we can do is talk about it) that I started hearing submissives talking about that is why they submit, to take care of their Dom(me).

"What the fu-... hold up a minute! I'm supposed to take care of you! I don't need you to take care of me, other than this dick won't suck itself!"

In a lot of ways, I'd always viewed my Dominance something along the lines of husbandry. Or perhaps a hothouse to allow the beautiful and rare flower to bloom.

And it just absolutely baffled me that my submissives thought they were taking care of me...

Well, it did until I paused to think about it.

Love was not just my wife, but my submissive, my little, my slave...

She had an accident involving a shotgun back in '73 that blew her knee out. And rather than doing the smart thing and amputating, due to the pendulum swing from so many Viet Nam vets coming back missing limbs, she was something of an experiment in "saving the leg" (for some values of the term). With a knee joint that didn't bend. At all.

Four decades of doing what she needed to and wanted to took its toll. And her altered gait caused her vertebrae to wear a hole in her spine. The last couple of years, she was all but bedridden, only rising to go to the bathroom and make her own coffee (since she swore I never did learn to do it right).

And it ate at her, how our roles were basically reversed. How I as her Master and Daddy was cooking for her and cleaning up after her and waiting on her hand and foot. Bathing her.

And, perhaps worse, sex (even just Ms. Grundy approved more-vanilla-than-Dairy-Queen-soft-serve) was off the table as it just hurt too much. (And not in a good way.)

The thing is... I never needed her to cook for me. (Actually, it annoyed her to no end that I was a better cook.) I never needed her to clean for me. (Actually, left to my own devices, I'm more housebroken.) I didn't really need her to get up and get me a fresh drink. These were just things that I let her take care of because she seemed to need to do them.

About the only thing I did need (except for the thing about this dick not sucking itself) was to know that I mattered. That I wasn't so bad. That I was... not redeemable exactly, but that I didn't need to be redeemed since she wanted me as flawed as I was. That she chose me and I was her priority, not her safety net. Not the... most palatable of bad options.

But, she didn't see it that way. Her idea of service to me meant that she should do these things and more for me to make my life easier and better. When all she really had to do was just be in it to manage that.

***sigh*** I don't know. I really don't. But, I think... Well, I think that both sides of the slash need to... know they make the other's life better in some way. Nurture each other. Which... well, I don't guess a D/s tagged relationship is really any different from any other.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna... I don't know. I guess oil my chain flogger or something and leave this conversation to brighter bulbs than me. (Or at least don't overthink everthing and then experience diarhea of the keyboard... )

 

[cookiecat]

cookie and Fara...

I admit that this is something that I had to do a lot of soul searching about over the last few years. At one point, it confused me quite a bit.

So... yeah, just in case there is anyone who might not know, I came late to the LDR party. For three decades of BDSM activity (that I'm allowed to admit to), it was all face-to-face and organic. And we didn't do just a whole lot of talking beyond "oh, fuck yeah, more of that" or "ow! Fuck! Let's not do that shit again," because... well, we were too busy doing to worry about talking.

I knew... eh... some things. Maybe more than the average bear, yogi. But, the insights into just what made my submissives' nipples pucker, at least so far as the emotions and thought process involved was... murky at best.

Oh, I knew when she needed to be cuddled and held and just listen to her talk it out, and when she needed me to pin her down, rip her clothes off, tie her down face down with a wedge pillow at her hips, fit her with a butt plug, insert a vibrating dildo in her pussy, and hold the hitachi wand against her clitoris with my left hand while swinging a flogger against her back with my right...

But, the thing is... the reason for my Dominance was to take care of her.

And it wasn't until after Love's death, when I started poking around online (where all we can do is talk about it) that I started hearing submissives talking about that is why they submit, to take care of their Dom(me).

"What the fu-... hold up a minute! I'm supposed to take care of you! I don't need you to take care of me, other than this dick won't suck itself!"

In a lot of ways, I'd always viewed my Dominance something along the lines of husbandry. Or perhaps a hothouse to allow the beautiful and rare flower to bloom.

And it just absolutely baffled me that my submissives thought they were taking care of me...

Well, it did until I paused to think about it.

Love was not just my wife, but my submissive, my little, my slave...

She had an accident involving a shotgun back in '73 that blew her knee out. And rather than doing the smart thing and amputating, due to the pendulum swing from so many Viet Nam vets coming back missing limbs, she was something of an experiment in "saving the leg" (for some values of the term). With a knee joint that didn't bend. At all.

Four decades of doing what she needed to and wanted to took its toll. And her altered gait caused her vertebrae to wear a hole in her spine. The last couple of years, she was all but bedridden, only rising to go to the bathroom and make her own coffee (since she swore I never did learn to do it right).

And it ate at her, how our roles were basically reversed. How I as her Master and Daddy was cooking for her and cleaning up after her and waiting on her hand and foot. Bathing her.

And, perhaps worse, sex (even just Ms. Grundy approved more-vanilla-than-Dairy-Queen-soft-serve) was off the table as it just hurt too much. (And not in a good way.)

The thing is... I never needed her to cook for me. (Actually, it annoyed her to no end that I was a better cook.) I never needed her to clean for me. (Actually, left to my own devices, I'm more housebroken.) I didn't really need her to get up and get me a fresh drink. These were just things that I let her take care of because she seemed to need to do them.

About the only thing I did need (except for the thing about this dick not sucking itself) was to know that I mattered. That I wasn't so bad. That I was... not redeemable exactly, but that I didn't need to be redeemed since she wanted me as flawed as I was. That she chose me and I was her priority, not her safety net. Not the... most palatable of bad options.

But, she didn't see it that way. Her idea of service to me meant that she should do these things and more for me to make my life easier and better. When all she really had to do was just be in it to manage that.

***sigh*** I don't know. I really don't. But, I think... Well, I think that both sides of the slash need to... know they make the other's life better in some way. Nurture each other. Which... well, I don't guess a D/s tagged relationship is really any different from any other.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna... I don't know. I guess oil my chain flogger or something and leave this conversation to brighter bulbs than me. (Or at least don't overthink everthing and then experience diarhea of the keyboard... )

This is lovely, how you put it. Something more to think about. I think my husband felt the same way, especially when he was sick. I would fuss over him, keep an eye on him, jump up to move his arms, legs, itch his nose - whatever. Maybe serving him in a certain way was my image of how I thought it should be.
Hmmm. Keeping control of the situation???

He would say just sit here. Just be with me.

Wish I had done more of that.

Hindsight.

 

[ultramarineblue]

The thing is... I never needed her to cook for me. (Actually, it annoyed her to no end that I was a better cook.) I never needed her to clean for me. (Actually, left to my own devices, I'm more housebroken.) I didn't really need her to get up and get me a fresh drink. These were just things that I let her take care of because she seemed to need to do them.

About the only thing I did need (except for the thing about this dick not sucking itself) was to know that I mattered. That I wasn't so bad. That I was... not redeemable exactly, but that I didn't need to be redeemed since she wanted me as flawed as I was. That she chose me and I was her priority, not her safety net. Not the... most palatable of bad options.

But, she didn't see it that way. Her idea of service to me meant that she should do these things and more for me to make my life easier and better. When all she really had to do was just be in it to manage that.

I really needed to read this. Because I do like doing those types of things for people but also need to realize that just because I might feel a need to do those type things, they aren't necessarily the most important things that I can do for someone.

 

[midwestyankee]

Pretty much any relationship that can be characterized as 28% Bondage, 34% Dominance, 20% Submission, and 18% Masochism qualifies according to the owners annual I downloaded eleven years ago from ineedagetlaid.com. Anything else could be a little sketchy.

 

[barefootgirl69]

What do you think makes a relationship a BDSM one?

Is it the kink, or the emotional domination/submission aspect?

For example, if someone submits in all other aspects of their life to their partner, but their sex life is solely vanilla, is that still BDSM?

There seem to be so many different views and interpretations here, which sometimes raise their heads in other threads, but I hope a fresh look at this might be interesting.

Go!

I submitted to my husband because I chose to as a matter of my faith, not only because I am a natural submissive and had been in a M/s relationship years before I met him. As a submissive, I wanted the BDSM aspect, but that wasn't something we could agree to. Not even the bondage part.

So, I would say "NO", it's not a BDSM relationship unless there is some kind of BDSM involved in it.

Now, I'm going to read everyone else' posts.

 

[Mei5ter]

Pretty much any relationship that can be characterized as 28% Bondage, 34% Dominance, 20% Submission, and 18% Masochism qualifies according to the owners annual I downloaded eleven years ago from ineedagetlaid.com. Anything else could be a little sketchy.

I think that's now moved to piechartofperversion.net.