What Makes a Poem Erotic?

[Dillinger]

I submitted my first new poem in many months. Its called "We" and its available at http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=34941 - now I know by mentioning it here I open myself up to your comments and critiques. Have at it, if you want but... that's not my main reason for bringing it up.

I debated whether to submit this as an erotic poem or a non-erotic poem. My question is - do you find this erotic or not? Or does it exist in a vague area inbetween, depending on the reader's interpretation? Is this about love? Is love by itself erotic? Or is it about passion, desire - and therefore erotic.

The bigger question however is; what exactly makes something, anything - and in particular a poem - erotic?

Does it have to explicitly mention sex to be erotic? Imply sex? How explicit does it have to be? Where is the line, if any?

What if I were to propose that the desire for contact is what makes something erotic (whether that desire is fulfilled or not)?

Are you thinking? Did I get you on that one? Anyone nodding their heads in agreement?

Because, you know, I could write a poem about boxing. The desire for contact there is an absolute yet I, for one, would not find it in any way erotic.

Comments? Opinions?

What makes a poem erotic?

 

[WriterDom]

I guess that would depend on who you asked. For me,a romantic poem is more erotic than a "in your face" cock and fuck poem. Poems that are sensual can be erotic in their own way.

I'd classify your example as non-erotic. It doesn't really offer anything that hasn't been said by every beginning poet that picked up a pen. In my humble opinion, that is. Don't take it personally.

 

[KatPurrs]

Casting my ballot

Dillinger,

I'm with WD here. I wouldn't put this in the erotic category.

For a poem to be classsified as erotic, for me anyway, it's gotta have some heat, blatant or implied. I found neither. You've gotta warm me up, Dilly. I'm tepid here, but I'm a patient woman.

Kat~

 

[Dillinger]

WriterDom - don't worry, I don't take it personal. Your critique of the poem not "really offer anything that hasn't been said by every beginning poet that picked up a pen" doesn't say why its not erotic? You say a romantic poem is more erotic than a "a "in your face" cock and fuck poem" - I'd submit that whatever you think of the quality of this particular poem, it IS romantic and it certainly isn't "in your face cock and fuck." So... what makes a poem erotic?

KatPurrs - "For a poem to be classsified as erotic, for me anyway, it's gotta have some heat, blatant or implied." - OK, you've made a start at defining what erotic is for you but, can you be more specific as to what you mean by heat? Is that the blatent in your face that WD doesn't like (whether up front or implied - and yes, I think one can imply eroticism blatently).

 

[WriterDom]

Honestly, I don't know what makes a poem erotic. I'm not even sure how to define a poem, but for me, Emily Dickinson defined it best.

"If I read a book and it makes my whole body so cold no fire can ever warm me, I know that it is poetry. If I feel physically as if the top of my head were taken off, I know that it is poetry. These are the only ways I know it. Is there any other way?"

Overly sexual poems can be erotic. But I think it's harder to pull off without being trite. Do they arouse people? Certainly. In that sense they are erotic. But there are people aroused by cybersex. If you paste a cybersex session into lines is it poetry?

 

[KatPurrs]

Defining "heat"

I guess by "heat" I mean I need some foreplay. I need some imagery, some metaphors, some reference to our bodies, something to plant a seed, a vision in my head...I need something sensory. It's kind of hard to explain, isn't it? Do you know what I mean?

Isn't saying "one can imply eroticism blatantly" a contradiction in terms? It's either implied or blatant and ne'er the twain shall meet. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems so to me.

Although, looking at it in a different light, I have had someone look in my eyes and simply say, "I want you" and it was very erotic. But....I SAW the look in his eyes...I HEARD his husky voice...I FELT his hand on my waist.....

That's what's eroticism is to me anyway. The building up of emotions and senses. The foreplay.

 

[KatPurrs]

Poetic cybersex.....

WD....is this what you meant?

mmmmmm mmmmmm mmmmmm
ooooohhhhh yessssss oooohhhhh
mmmmm mmmmmm mmmmmmm
I'm gonna cum toooooooooo!

Oh god yesssssssss
oooh yesssss sooooooon!
h h h
Did you cum toooooooo??

There. How's that? Now THAT'S erotic poetry!

LOL....

 

[Unmasked Poet]

There is not one thing that makes a poem erotic. Certainly the language used the scene the poet sets all contribute. Poems that use words such as "cock" and "cunt" are almost never erotic.

Your poem Dillinger is non-erotic. Did you intend it to be? It is sentimental and very basic. It doesn't read as romantic either. When spoken I'm sure it has punch if you happen to be on the receiving end. The structure and word choice limits the amount of imagery you could have provided. In poetry imagery and well-chosen words hold the emotion. Your words are far too bare to hang anything as complex as eroticism on.

While the reader’s interpretation will vary, your poem will have a hard time finding a viewer who can see or feel what you may have intended. Love is not a necessary component for eroticism in writing. This poem does not appear to be about love either. It seems rather rudimentary like refrigerator poetry. I’m sure there is a clever intention behind the simple structure and the scrambling of the words toward the end. Unscramble the words to arrange the meaning for yourself or some nonsense. Writer Dom is correct in my opinion that this is worthy of any beginning poet. I am afraid your poem is not passionate either just sentimental.

U.P.

 

[Guest]

what makes a poem erotic?

Whether it is a poem or a story, for me eroticism grows from a balance of raw and romantic language.
Alone, the "in-your-face" language is ultimately a turn-off for me. Tenderness is very erotic. Just a personal point of vieww...
GP

 

[daughter]

defining in personal terms

If you can't get off on it without using your hand as well, it's not erotic. Whether the language is explicit or implied, the images must create tension, arousal, and provoke connections beyond the act or scene described.

Eroticism is experiencing sexual gratification on a cerebral plane. It's that experience that lingers long after the gasp. Fine erotic poetry does that for me. I want to commit lines to memory and savor the connection. Eroticism is many things. What it isn't is transparent.


Peace,

daughter

 

[Dillinger]

Thak you WD. I very much like the Dickenson quote.

Honestly, I don't know what makes a poem erotic. I'm not even sure how to define a poem, but for me, Emily Dickinson defined it best.

"If you paste a cybersex session into lines is it poetry?" - no it isn't. But now you beg the question... What is poetry? *lol*

"If I read a book and it makes my whole body so cold no fire can ever warm me, I know that it is poetry. If I feel physically as if the top of my head were taken off, I know that it is poetry. These are the only ways I know it. Is there any other way?"

Overly sexual poems can be erotic. But I think it's harder to pull off without being trite. Do they arouse people? Certainly. In that sense they are erotic. But there are people aroused by cybersex. If you paste a cybersex session into lines is it poetry?

 

[Dillinger]

Re: Defining "heat"

Thank you, KatPurrs. I appreciate your input.

I guess by "heat" I mean I need some foreplay. I need some imagery, some metaphors, some reference to our bodies, something to plant a seed, a vision in my head...I need something sensory. It's kind of hard to explain, isn't it? Do you know what I mean?

I believe I do. Women always need foreplay, damn them! *lol* Seriously - yes. I think you're saying that the words themselve have passion - instill a deep desire for what is to come. Yes?

Isn't saying "one can imply eroticism blatantly" a contradiction in terms? It's either implied or blatant and ne'er the twain shall meet. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems so to me.

Not necessarily. Though I might have been disingenuous. by saying "I think one can imply eroticism blatently"

What I meant is not far from what WD said but taking it a step further. He said that a poem can be erotic without being and "in your face" cock and fuck poem." I agree with that. But I would say that the eroticism itself can be implied. That a good writer can make you feel that HEAT without even being overt about the romance or sensuality.

Although, looking at it in a different light, I have had someone look in my eyes and simply say, "I want you" and it was very erotic. But....I SAW the look in his eyes...I HEARD his husky voice...I FELT his hand on my waist.....

Yes! Exactly. My poem perhaps fails because I did not manage to make you feel like that person was looking in your eyes - did not let you hear his voice, feel his hand... The words "I want you" are incredibly erotic - in the right setting.

 

[Dillinger]

There is not one thing that makes a poem erotic. Certainly the language used the scene the poet sets all contribute. Poems that use words such as "cock" and "cunt" are almost never erotic.

I find this an interesting discussion and do appreciate your comments. You are correct, I believe that there is not one thing that makes a poem erotic.

I would propose that it is the way the poet uses the words - whether they are subtle or blatent - that makes the poem erotic.

Your poem Dillinger is non-erotic. Did you intend it to be? It is sentimental and very basic. It doesn't read as romantic either. When spoken I'm sure it has punch if you happen to be on the receiving end. The structure and word choice limits the amount of imagery you could have provided. In poetry imagery and well-chosen words hold the emotion. Your words are far too bare to hang anything as complex as eroticism on.

I wouldn't have asked this question about my poem if I had been sure of the answer. I am obviously on the boarderline here. There is eroticism in what I intended to say but there is something more than that. And, based on the comments here, I may not have been successful in my attempt.

"Your words are far too bare to hang anything as complex as eroticism on. "

Hmmm - I might not argue that my words may not be erotic - however, I will maintain that something being bare - or simple - does not keep it from being erotic. I will also maintain that complexity is TOO easy - and that a good poem does not need to be complex. Nor does eroticism require complexity. More on this later.

While the reader?s interpretation will vary, your poem will have a hard time finding a viewer who can see or feel what you may have intended. Love is not a necessary component for eroticism in writing. This poem does not appear to be about love either. It seems rather rudimentary like refrigerator poetry. I?m sure there is a clever intention behind the simple structure and the scrambling of the words toward the end. Unscramble the words to arrange the meaning for yourself or some nonsense. Writer Dom is correct in my opinion that this is worthy of any beginning poet. I am afraid your poem is not passionate either just sentimental.

I agree love is not necessary for eroticism, nor is it necessary for something to be erotic to speak of love.

Refrigerator poetry is an interesting analogy. I wouldn't quite agree because I've often been quite enamoured with the surrealistic randomness I've been able to come up with as I scramble the words on my refrigerator. *lol* My scramble isn't surreal... but it is, personally, my favorite part of this poem and what makes it work - for me.

So... no passion. Sentimental though? Is that a bad thing? (Other than the fact that it may not be correctly categorized as erotic.)

 

[Dillinger]

Re: what makes a poem erotic?

Whether it is a poem or a story, for me eroticism grows from a balance of raw and romantic language.
Alone, the "in-your-face" language is ultimately a turn-off for me. Tenderness is very erotic. Just a personal point of vieww...
GP

I very much appreciate your comments, gp. I do believe that it is all very personal for each of us, what makes something erotic, and what doesn't. But I wonder what the possible common denominators are. To use my above example, I believe (other than a few fetishists) that we would all agree that a poem about boxing is not erotic... hmmm... or, perhaps, some better example - a poem about fishing is not erotic. A poem about studying for a mid-term is not erotic (unless you end up having sex with your study partner). In fact, this discussion of eroticism is NOT erotic.

So again... what makes something erotic - what are the essential elements?

"...a balance of raw and romantic language" is a nice turn of phrase. And, as you said, personal for you. Because, despite what you and WD and others say about "in your face" that IS erotic for some people.

 

[Dillinger]

Re: defining in personal terms

If you can't get off on it without using your hand as well, it's not erotic. Whether the language is explicit or implied, the images must create tension, arousal, and provoke connections beyond the act or scene described.

Ah, daughter - your standards are much too high, I fear. While getting off without using your hand (or a toy or some body part or another - whether your own or someone else's) is a lofty goal - I would have to argue that using such stimuli is, in and of itself, erotic.

But I do understand your point. We are communicating in a medium that removes the auditory, the visual and the sense of touch from the equation. It is the mind that we are after here.

Eroticism is experiencing sexual gratification on a cerebral plane. It's that experience that lingers long after the gasp. Fine erotic poetry does that for me. I want to commit lines to memory and savor the connection. Eroticism is many things. What it isn't is transparent.

Let's rephrase that - correct me if you think I'm wrong. Eroticism IN POETRY is experiencing sexual gratification on a cerebral plane.

I think you've almost got it.

The word cerebral however is TOO cerebral.

Perhaps - Eroticism in poetry is experiencing sexual gratification through the use of words to stimulate the mind, body, soul and heart.

"Eroticism is many things. What it isn't is transparent."

I'm afraid I don't quite follow you here. What do you mean by transparent?

Peace,

daughter

Piece,

Dill

 

[daughter]

however, I will maintain that something being bare - or simple - does not keep it from being erotic. I will also maintain that complexity is TOO easy - and that a good poem does not need to be complex.

Dillinger, I won't speak for U.P. I agree with his assestment. It isn't that being bare can't be erotic. It is this particular instance of a sketch is too bare. There is no imagery for me to connect with here. Nor in this small amount of space is there a tone for me to cling to. And speaking of space, there is too much white space in this read. Presentation is another element of a poem, and I think there are times when we fail to maximize the impact it can have on a read.

I prefer lean, clean lines. I like ordinary words connected to convey extraordinary feelings. So my argument is not with sparse language; it is the failure to maximize the impact of language and employing deft word selections. Economy demands deliberate, precise execution.

In terms of complexity. I'd like you to define that. As I stated, I prefer uncomplicated lines. That does not mean my poems lack depth and complexity. I'd argue the contrary. My word choices are deliberate. I think long about connotations and the interpretations they might elicit. It takes considerable effort to say something complex when you choose to restrict the space in which you will say it.

"Chamomile Tea" is one stanza, less than ten lines long. It is sensual and the theme of the work is complex. The connotations and interpretations are many. They are decisively layered. I never use words simply because they are convenient and familiar. On the contrary, if you ask, I can give you a detailed explanation about my word choices, line lengths, tone, pacing, rhythm and theme.

Inspiration for my work is often spontaneous. I capture the essence quickly. Crafting the art of it is work, effort that I am passionate about.

I read quite a bit of online poetry. I read a fair amount of published work both contemporary and classic. Your "We" poem fits all the patterns of a beginner's work: Very short lines, few words, more expository than an illustration. Simple construction, little or no punctuation. The work is exceeding sparse and there is an implied assumption that the reader will connect with the emotion you identify with it. However, you have failed to provide any intimate detail to draw me in. That is why I would call a beginner's poem.

It is not erotic in my opinion. It is not erotic because it lacks sensuality. Erotica empasses more than sexual overtones. It exudes sesuality.

Good discussion.

Peace,

daughter

 

[daughter]

some of us find mental stimulation erotic

therefore cerebral is appropriate, Dillinger. When my man and I converse, I am often turned on and the conversation has nothing to do with sex.

Eroticism is not transparent meaning it isn't something you look through and past. It has depth and that depth is the effect it has on the reader.

You know why folk bore so easily with porn? Because once you've seen the video, it's over. You seek out a new one for stimulation from something different. Same effect, but you get different packaging that holds your attention for the time you're watching it.

I could read D.H. Lawrence's celebrated scene in "Lady Chatterley's Lover" a hundred times and be equally aroused with each read. (The entire book for that matter) The scene was not graphic sex, but it was intensely sexual and powerful emotionally and mentally. My temperature rose and my heart was clearly beating faster.

Peace,

daughter

 

[Dillinger]

Interesting tidbit.

Just before I posted this thread yesterday my poem had 5 votes, 65 views, and a score of 3.8.

As of 12:30pm EST today it has 8 votes, 102 views and a score of 3.13.

36 more views, only 3 more votes... those 3 obviously not terribly impressed with my effort. *grin*

I had a feeling that I was asking for this when I started this thread - and that is perfectly fine by me. I have seldom solicited feedback on my work so my thread about this poem is unusual for me. Mostly I truly was after what defines or makes something erotic.

My own feelings for this poem are somewhat mixed. So I was curious how people perceived it. At times I re-read it (and know the impetus behind it) and quite like it.

A famous composer once said (I think it was Charles Ives, If anyone knows for sure please let me know) - paraphrasing - "The most difficult thing to write is a simple melody."

Several people here have commented that this poem is too simple. I would have to say that type of criticism is TOO simple. *lol* - Perhaps it might have been better stated that my poem is too basic. But simple is not equivalent with amateur or beginner or any lack of talent.

In fact I would challenge you all to write an erotic poem that IS simple and EFFECTIVE. I feel the statement by Ives about music applies equally well to the written word. I am not railing against complexity, but just because something is complex does not make it good. It is much easier to hide a lack of talent behind superficial complexity then it is to create something beautiful that is also "simple."

I have recently received feedback on two of my poems. This one, "We", and "I Name You." And I very much appreciate all the feedback whether negative or positive or inbetween. Without mentioning the person who gave me the feedback (that's their perogative if they want to), what this person said about "I Name You" was:

"You have made a beautifully clear statement in a simple way."

So, at least for one person I have accomplished beauty and simplicity. If not in "We" then, at least, in another work.

This is not to defend "We" or myself or my writing. But rather to foster the discussion of what makes a poem erotic and even the larger discussion of what makes a poem a POEM. I fear I cannot accept that a good poem must be complex or that even to elicit an erotic response requires complexity.

 

[Dillinger]

Re: some of us find mental stimulation erotic

therefore cerebral is appropriate, Dillinger. When my man and I converse, I am often turned on and the conversation has nothing to do with sex.

Eroticism is not transparent meaning it isn't something you look through and past. It has depth and that depth is the effect it has on the reader.

You know why folk bore so easily with porn? Because once you've seen the video, it's over. You seek out a new one for stimulation from something different. Same effect, but you get different packaging that holds your attention for the time you're watching it.

I could read D.H. Lawrence's celebrated scene in "Lady Chatterley's Lover" a hundred times and be equally aroused with each read. (The entire book for that matter) The scene was not graphic sex, but it was intensely sexual and powerful emotionally and mentally. My temperature rose and my heart was clearly beating faster.

Peace,

daughter

I obviously wrote my previous post before seeing your last two posts. I owe you a longer response to both but do not have the time right now.

I just want to take up the word cerebral. To me this is a word that dissasociates itself from emotion and therefore not appropriate in defining what you are getting at. Perhaps this is an unfair association but I do believe that it is the common interpretation of the word by most people. When one says something is cerebral one is stating that it is of the intellect alone.

Webster:

1 a : of or relating to the brain or the intellect b : of, relating to, or being the cerebrum
2 a : appealing to intellectual appreciation <cerebral drama> b : primarily intellectual in nature <a cerebral society>

Synonyms for cerebral include highbrow, highbrowed, intellectualist,

Not very erotic, at least to me.

Highbrow doesn't have depth. It is very transparent. Highbrow, to me, implies superficial intellectualism.

 

[daughter]

Do you always pick out what you want to argue

and ignore the context in which something is written?

You have given me definition for cerebral. That does not take into account the connotations of the word which is clearly different for me. Our difference is just that. Indicating a meaning does not mean my position or view is wrong.

I asked you to define complex. Did you skip where I said I don't find simple necessarily a bad thing? I did argue in this particular poem the simplicity did not work for me. I use simple construction and simple words all the time. If you're going to debate with me at least counter specific points I've made.

Simple construction does not equal simple message.

I don't think writing poetry well is easy. So I don't have an argument on that point.

I don't like steak either, Dillinger. Are you going to argue that being a vegetarian isn't healthy?

You asked me how I define eroticism. Now you want to argue that I'm wrong? I thought you were the one arguing how subjective poetry is?

Peace,

daughter

 

[Dillinger]

*lol* Perhaps it was unfair of me to focus on one point that stuck in my head... but I did say "I obviously wrote my previous post before seeing your last two posts. I owe you a longer response to both but do not have the time right now." --- and I will respond to you in more depth.

Fair enough if that's what cerebral means to you. Its a matter of terminology... I do believe though that to many people the word cerebral connotates something without emotion. If it doesn't mean that ot you, that's fine and dandy, but you should be aware that when you use that word, that is how, at least some people, might interpret it.

"Eroticism is experiencing sexual gratification on a cerebral plane. It's that experience that lingers long after the gasp. Fine erotic poetry does that for me. I want to commit lines to memory and savor the connection. Eroticism is many things. What it isn't is transparent."

You did go further than just using the word cerebral. And perhaps I did take it out of context. My apologies.

As far as arguing that being a vegetarian is unhealthy. Yes, I believe it is. But that's a topic for the general board, I think? *lol*

 

[perks]

what is erotic......
something that is devoted to, or tends to arouse sexual love or desire.

it isn't devoted to love or compassion or caring or being complete with someone. It's devoted to

sexual love and desire....sexual arousal.

Unless I you were reading your poem to me amidst tiny flicks of my clit....not erotica......a love poem possibly, but not a sexual love poem.

When you think of erotica....think of sex....

bottom line,
perks

 

[Guest]

what is eroitc?

Webster's Dictionary...... "EROTIC (adj)-- of or arousing sexual feelings or desires, amatory"
GP

 

[RisiaSkye]

An erotic poem is a poem first. That means it must appeal to the reader through its style, form, structure, meter, rhythm, and linguistic nuances. But an erotic poem is also a seducer. To me, an erotic poem is a successful poem which seeks (often successfully) to seduce the mind rather than the cock or the pussy. It's art through artifice--the mind behind the brain. In a hamfisted analogy--it's the self that you want to fuck, rather than the body.

Clear as mud, ain't it? Aren't you sorry you asked?

 

[Whispersecret]

Risia, I think that's a great definition.