What makes a Bad Story?

[dr_mabeuse]

Let’s say you click on a Lit story with a reasonably interesting title. You never heard of the author, so there’s no bias. You start reading. You read some more. You suddenly decide you don’t want to read anymore.

What just happened?

What prompts the decision to stop reading? Is it a trite beginning, clumsy writing, mechanical errors, or just an overall failure to grab your interest? The feeling that the story’s not going to show you anything worth spending your time on?

And how much of a chance to you give it? Personally, I don’t believe the old canard about hooking the reader with the first sentence. I don’t think anyone stops reading a story after one sentence. Once you've gone through the trouble of opening the page, I think most people naturally give a story something like 3 or 4 paragraphs to grab their interest. At least I do. And if the opening’s weak, I’ll usually skip down half a page to see if it looks better or worse farther on before I make up my mind.

Do you read just until you get a feel for the author’s skill? Or until you know what the story’s about? Or are you patient enough to give an author an entire half or whole page to win you over?

I know that this is just the “What Makes A Good Story” question approached from the other side, but I’m curious as to how the dynamic of reading something fits in with how we judge its worth and quality.

---dr.M.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Let’s say you click on a Lit story with a reasonably interesting title. You never heard of the author, so there’s no bias. You start reading. You read some more. You suddenly decide you don’t want to read anymore.

What just happened?

What prompts the decision to stop reading? Is it a trite beginning, clumsy writing, mechanical errors, or just an overall failure to grab your interest? The feeling that the story’s not going to show you anything worth spending your time on?

And how much of a chance to you give it? Personally, I don’t believe the old canard about hooking the reader with the first sentence. I don’t think anyone stops reading a story after one sentence. Once you've gone through the trouble of opening the page, I think most people naturally give a story something like 3 or 4 paragraphs to grab their interest. At least I do. And if the opening’s weak, I’ll usually skip down half a page to see if it looks better or worse farther on before I make up my mind.

Do you read just until you get a feel for the author’s skill? Or until you know what the story’s about? Or are you patient enough to give an author an entire half or whole page to win you over?

I know that this is just the “What Makes A Good Story” question approached from the other side, but I’m curious as to how the dynamic of reading something fits in with how we judge its worth and quality.

---dr.M.

For me, one of the worst offenses, after glaring spelling or gramatical errors is simple sentences. the staccatto feel of a para or two of short sentences grates on my nerves.

Sudden pov or tense changes also will have me back clicking fast.

If we ignore mechanical errors, I won't give up on one for a trite begining or even a shallow over used plot. I back click when I realize I am making myself read, rather than enjoying reading. that can be in the first para of near the end. I don't have an expalanation for just what makes me feel this way or do this, I just know when it happens.

-Colly

 

[matriarch]

Personal taste is a very strange beast. Unquantifiable, undefinable. And that's what we're talking about here. Personal taste.

Like Colly, the first thing that will turn me away, is bad grammar, spelling, typos. All the things that stop the flow of a story. If I find myself muttering about 'spell checker' and 'editor', rather than concentrating on the story, I know its a loser for me.

I will sruggle on, but those errors will distract me from the story, and eventually, I just give up, hit the backbutton and try something else. I have no idea on those occasions if I even disliked the story, it was just so hard to wade through the errors, I gave up.

I like stories to engage me, make me want to know about this place or these people being described to me. Get my interest after a few paragraphs, and maintain that interest right through.

It is impossible for us to like every story we read, but just why some of us like one style and some like another, is one of those eternal mysteries.

Not really coming up with an answer Doc, merely making observations.

 

[Guest]

You never heard of the author, so there’s no bias.
Untrue. A newbie usually is an oldie in disguise. You can find secret key words in the title.
You suddenly decide you don’t want to read anymore.
That happens.

What just happened?
That.

The feeling that the story’s not going to show you anything worth spending your time on?
That happens too.

And how much of a chance to you give it?
Life time.
I don’t think anyone stops reading a story after one sentence.
I do.
And if the opening’s weak, I’ll usually skip down half a page to see if it looks better or worse farther on before I make up my mind.
Secret codes are everywhere.

Or are you patient enough to give an author an entire half or whole page to win you over?
I've read all of Riven_Caulfield.

http://english.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=50650&page=submissions

 

[dr_mabeuse]

As I suspected, I’m worse than you guys. A trite opening is enough to make me scowl. Mary McGillicuddy looked at herself in the mirror: her long legs, tight ass, and erect 36-D breasts. “Not bad for a forty year-old divorcee!” she thought. and it’s already got one strike against it.

Aside from the more usual backclick triggers (overuse of exclamation points, monolithic paragraphs--things that just jump out at you and say "Stay away!") I think the big thing for me is cliché. If the author brings a fresh approach or fresh imagery and language to a story, I’m willing to forgive any number of spelling and grammar errors, but cliche and triteness are the two things that immediatelyturn me off. I remember one story that had big, dumb mechanical errors in the first paragraph, but it also contained this sentence: “She turned her eyes on him like a pair of anti-aircraft guns.” I read it to the end.

I find that it’s not originality of plot so much as it is the way the author tells the tale. After all, how many different plots are there? (We’re all plagiarists, intentional or not.) If someone comes at a story with originality and perception, I’m willing to forgive them all sorts of errors. It’s triteness that usually makes me leave.

I think every serious author working ona story should ask him or herself: “why should someone want to read my story of first-time anal (or whatever) rather than any of the other 10,000 versions of the same story here on Lit? What makes mine special? What does mine have that the others don’t?”

If they can’t answer those questions, then they should think twice about posting.

---dr.M.

 

[carsonshepherd]

I hate trite openings and boring plots. Grammatical errors or sloppy diction tells me the author doesn't know what (s)he's doing and obviously doesn't care, so why should I? Like Doc said even if the plot is familiar, just let it be well-written.

 

[Guest]

Twice recently I decided to read some Lit. stories at random, going with ‘new’ stories and choosing them only by category or blurb descriptions. I think each time I tried over a dozen before getting past the first half-page, and as many more before finishing just one story. Most bore trite, clumsy or plainly bad writing and nothing that held my interest (whether character, plot, mood, etc.) past a few paragraphs.

Great opening sentences are rare, but it does behoove an author to make something special of the first paragraph. If that doesn’t show much promise I then very quickly skim the next few and usually by the half-page I know it’s crap, even if just content-wise.

As for what ‘grabs’ me as a reader-who-writes I want obviously experienced language skill, a basic style or voice that goes with the content, and characters I can believe in, even if not like. For sex scenes I want the visceral clothed in language that matches the actions and mood so that the same old stuff seems new and exciting. Besides the very few Lit. authors (mostly AH people) I read regularly, in the past year or so I’ve only encountered one ‘new’ writer I thoroughly enjoyed and went to the author’s page to read more.

Perdita

 

[gauchecritic]

The time when I most often backclick on a story is when it comes recommended as the best thing since sliced bread and fails miserably on the first page.

If it's a story I've started to read by finding it myself (for whatever reason) I will stop reading but start skimming and the longer the story the more sparse the skim.

I can easily correct for mechanical mistakes in my head so that isn't really a consideration.

Conversely, however much I can appreciate skill or craftsmanship, if I'm not hooked after several paragraphs then the sweetest prose will not make me read on.

looking at a list of random stories in the 'new' section.

1. Too many cliches.

2> Incorrect (to my mind) usage, plus americanisms and starting with an obvious going for a flashback scene.

3. English as second language story complete with difficult to read structure, obvious plot line plus stereotyping and quite unnecessary inclusion of obscure setting/information.


I didn't read past four paragraphs for the first two but read the last one to the end. Maybe I'm just perverse.

Gauche

 

[carsonshepherd]

Incorrect (to my mind) usage, plus americanisms

I agree with you on your points except I think that using Americanisms is a style choice. doesn't it increase your sense of place?

"Britishisms" can throw me when I don't have any idea what they mean. "Taking the piss" I recently learned though!

 

[oggbashan]

Apart from the technical errors that I can overlook if the story appeals, the most obvious cause for me to back click is finding that the 'story' isn't a story but a scene that the writer thinks is arousing. 'What she and I did on the haystack' - a description of a sexual event with no plot whatsoever.

That isn't wholly true. A good writer can make that limited scene enthralling. A mediocre writer can't. Most of the authors on Lit are mediocre but if the plot is reasonable can tell a story that is worth reading. I suppose it is like the difference between a symphony and a tone poem. A symphony has a beginning, a development and an end. A tone poem can be as long or as short as the composer wants and tries to convey a mood, not a formally structured development. A bad tone poem, like a bad scene, can be dire. A reasonably developed symphony, like a story that moves from start to a sensible finish, at least gives you satisfaction when it ends.

2nd person POV is usually a turn off. 1st person narration 'I did this; I did that; you moaned in ecstasy' can be as well.

I can look beyond technical errors if the author is a storyteller. If not, the technical errors will be more annoying.

Og

 

[gauchecritic]

I agree with you on your points except I think that using Americanisms is a style choice. doesn't it increase your sense of place?

"Britishisms" can throw me when I don't have any idea what they mean. "Taking the piss" I recently learned though!

That's why I said 'Americanisms'. It had an English feel to it but used Americanisms without any explanation. I can read a story set in America but reading forced Americanisms in a seemingly English settings tells me more about the author than the character using them. If I wanted to know about the author I'd read a biography.

Gauche

 

[impressive]

Depends on why I'm reading, I guess. The usual turn offs are:

Spelling/grammar errors.
Use of long wailing quotes: "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck meeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"
Too many exclamation points.
Huge paragraphs.
Unnatural dialog.
Clumpy lists of physical attributes.
Repetitive use of certain words (names, adjectives).
Improper word use: its-it's/lose-loose/taut-taunt, etc.

And I tend to avoid the stories that seem trite and forced -- the busty cheerleader meets horny jock types. More mature characters are preferable.

I did some random browsing a couple nights back (when the forums were offline for the upgrade). Of, oh maybe, 20 stories I clicked, I finished only 3.

I tend to do a lot of back clicking when I learn a story is 6+ Lit pages ... either 'cause I don't have time to read it, or 'cause I'm more in the mood for a "scene" (like Og mentioned). It'd be nice to see story length in the index somewhere.

 

[KarenAM]

I'm a stickler for good grammar, spelling, etc. But as well, a story dares not be boring. A lot of stuff at Lit. is narrowly focused on fetishes and particular kinks, and I think people are generally more willing to forgive errors if a story presses their buttons. I know I am.

On the other hand, stories that are about more than just the sex, that have compelling characters and plots (like Colly's work), can catch and hold my interest even if they are not about sexual things that interest me. A bad erotic story is typically just about the sex, the mechanics of it, and not the psychology, which is where the real eroticism is.

 

[carsonshepherd]

That's why I said 'Americanisms'. It had an English feel to it but used Americanisms without any explanation. I can read a story set in America but reading forced Americanisms in a seemingly English settings tells me more about the author than the character using them. If I wanted to know about the author I'd read a biography.

Gauche

Gotcha.

Reminds me of a story I read set in America, obviously written by a British author. It was a good story otherwise but it amused me, that the American characters used British phrasing. "I'll sort it." "Knackered;" "raise a doctor."

Didn't make me chuck the story but I felt the author should've gotten somebody American to look over it. Picky, I know. I'm a pain.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

A bad story is not the same as a bad author.

Characters who speak or act as though they were reading the instructions off the back of a medicine bottle will cause me to ditch it as soon as I recognize the symptom.

Bad spelling, typos, even grammatical errors can be overlooked if what the characters say and do is compelling.

You can have professional proofreaders go over a bad writer’s good story and wind up with a good story. Nothing except a good rewrite can save a bad story.

 

[LustyLovers]

For me a story must have a plot. I prefer longer stories where I can actually get to know the characters. Emotion is a big plus also. I do have to admit if there are a lot of spelling errors I get turned off quick. I am a sucker for punishment I guess. Unless a story is just utterly horrendous I'll finish it. And if it can be voted on I will.

 

[ravenmx]

What makes a good story for me is a story that doesn't necessarily start out right away with sex. I like the build up or explanation of why they met or decided to have sex, the romance, or the sheer excitement of having sex with someone new or different.

I also have to be able to follow the characters or plot, if I find myself constantly scrolling back up because I am suddenly lost, I will not finish the story. The same goes for a book, if I have to constantly look back several pages because the author put something in that just didn't make sense at that point of the read I will put the book down and not finish it.

I have read some great stories here that were rather short but still had the build up or explanation. For me most stories that start with a heavy sex scene don't hold my interest because they never build up to the why's or how's of the characters having sex, it almost reminds me of the old high school saying "wham bam thank you ma'am"

 

[Guest]

erect 36-D breasts
I don't write stuff like that so why should I read stuff like that?

I think the big thing for me is cliché.
I try not to if I can help it.
“She turned her eyes on him like a pair of anti-aircraft guns.” I read it to the end.
I think that's plain stupid.

I find that it’s not originality of plot so much as it is the way the author tells the tale.
That's why my stories are trying to be as good as Riven's.
It’s triteness that usually makes me leave.
You can't accuse me of being trite!!!!!!!!!!!

I think every serious author working ona story should ask him or herself: “why should someone want to read my story of first-time anal (or whatever) rather than any of the other 10,000 versions of the same story here on Lit?
Because I want to get my hands into your pants, Doc.
What makes mine special?
Because I know your day job.
What does mine have that the others don’t?”
I know you are not vBoard bots.

If they can’t answer those questions, then they should think twice about posting.
Who the hell are you to make such a statement?

 

[jozef_the_dragon]

shallow

I see alot of shallow writing on this site, dull charators, boring chliches and worst of all, horrible plot and development, there are some good writers here, no doubt, but so far most of what I have read is just cheeze, there is no other way to mention it, its boring to read, no structure and very narrow development if the story even develps, though most do not, its just mash of thrown together vulgarities in hope of achiving erection, there are much more creative ways to describe a scene of lovers in love, better terms to bring detail and emtion into play, most of which are completely absent from what I have read, though I am still searching, I will not embarass anyone here by naming names but writers please, it's like being back highschool with all the "yeah it was like..." or "her huge tits..." and "my massive cock..." that is cheeze, its dull, its boring, it sux, if the story has meaning or is trying to achive something don't destroy it by killing the flavor with highschool phrasing and adolesent mentality, we are all adults here so lets all try to act like it by writing like it, hell bathroom walls have offered more in the ways of creativity, sorry for being so honest, and if I have offended you or your story....GOOD... Somebody had to grow the balls to speak up, to the others, the GOOD writers, keep up the excellent work, you have skill and its nice to see it and fun to read

 

[minsue]

I have only one thing to add that I haven't seen yet in the above posts - Textspeak. The only time 'lol' or 'U' or any of the other shorthands used in IM, Text messaging (or message boards ) should appear in a story is in an IM or Text message that is an integral part of the story. Recently, I've noticed LOL popping up in a lot of narration and that's enough to make me click back right then and there. I don't know why, but it drives me absolutely mad.

 

[Liar]

I'm pretty forgiving. As long as it is in readable English, I try to give any correctly written story a try. A dull opening, or some overused porn clichés might hide a really interresting plot once it finally gets going. But sometimes I find stories where I after some 400-500 words still don't understand a god damn thing about what's going on. I don't need to be immediately entertained, but I do need to feel that I grasp the scene and story.

If we talk solely about erotica, there is also the element of tittilation. We all have out turn-offs and if a story takes a turn into something I don't fancy, the erotic element is instantly lost. Most of the time with this kind of stories, the other non-erotic simensions are not strong enough to hold their own, so then I move on to some other story instead.

And too long paragraphs makes my head hurt.

 

[Weird Harold]

I can look beyond technical errors if the author is a storyteller. If not, the technical errors will be more annoying.

I think Oggs summed up my feelings here. The better the story-telling, the less critical of technical problems I get.

The main point for me is readability -- if I spend more time trying to translate bad writing to decipher what the author is trying to say, the less likely I am to continue.

Another BIG turn-off for me is a political/social agenda in a story -- I don't need or want long lectures on why Incest is an archic concept because the pill removes the logic behind it or sermons on why women are meant to be barefoot and pregnant or any of the other extraneous political and social theories I've ecountered. All stories have some political/social bias, but don't rub my nose in it; I'll either get the point or not from the story but don't insult my inteligence by laying out your platfrom point by point at the expense of telling the story.

 

[Guest]

I only tend to read particular categories, as I know what I like.

It's tough to pinpoint what I would call a "bad" story, I guess it's just one that doesn't interest me. I'm not a fan of flowery or pretentious writing; my preference is for straight-talking, sometimes hard hitting, good, soundly written and tight erotica.

As many others have mentioned, I don't want to get to know a character through a "shopping list" of physical attributes. I'd much rather know what is going on inside their heads.

Click-backs happen when I'm not grabbed within the first few paragraphs. There has to be a hook.

Grammatical errors jar me out of the story more so than spelling mistakes.

Lou

 

[gauchecritic]

I'll either get the point or not from the story but don't insult my inteligence by laying out your platfrom point by point at the expense of telling the story.

Can I take it that Heinlein annoys you then?

Gauche

 

[Boxlicker101]

I compare typos and simiar errors to speed bumps on an expressway. If I keep hitting them I stop reading, just as I would get off the expressway.

Either all short, simple sentences or all long, convoluted sentences, the kind where I have to go back and read them over to figure out what has been said, will chase me away. If all the sentences start with "I" or with third person pronouns, I will usually stop reading fairly quickly.

The only time I would stop after one sentence would be it the sentence happened to be about 400 words long. I would usually read about 500 words or so before rejecting a story.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet that will always turn me off is a subject that I don't like. I usually stay away from such stories but if I start reading one listed as "first time" and then realize that it's about the first time the main character has been abducted and tortured, I will stop reading. I don't like stories like that so I don't read them. Because it is a personal preference, I don't vote on them either.