What is with people!!!!!

[S.Daedalus]

What is with people these days????

Have the vows of marriage been reduced to just a formality that everyone must go threw? Is there no more commitment in this bloody world? Everywhere I turn I read about people cheating or being cheated on. When I talk to people I hear about "so and so is cheating on that person" and shit like that.

WHAT THE FUCK!!!

It makes me soo angry! You made a commitment, whether it was the right one or the wrong one you made it anyways! Just because you are not happy with it now or then or when ever does not give you the right to go off and cheat on your significant other!!! KEEP IT IN YOUR FUCKING PANTS!!!! KEEP YOUR LEGS SHUT!!!

Maybe I am just old fashioned, but when I make a commitment I stick too it. And I walk around these days and all I hear about is people cheating on each other. Like it’s the cool thing to do. Well it isn’t. People get hurt. Lives get ruined. People have feelings, ALL people have feelings, whether some choose to acknowledge it or not is a different story, but we all have feelings. So for fuck sakes make a decision and stick to it. And if you don't want to stick too it, end it, clear it up, do what ever you have to do before you decide to go stick your dick in another woman or get a dick stuck in you!

Maybe I’m too young to understand the secret lives and deceits of the adult world or something.

But damn it..it just doesn't seem right!

And for those who are at the other end of the stick. The one the person is cheating WITH. FUCK YOU TOO...unless the person hid the fact that they were married, what the HELL are you doing going near them. They have a marriage, no matter how bad it may be, it's a marriage and you are not helping it AT ALL. You want to help, get them out of the marriage then make love to them. But damn it...if they are married STAY THE HELL AWAY! These are peoples lives here..this isn't a fucking game. This isn't a soap opera. This isn't a movie with Hollywood actors in it...this is real life, real families, real people. Take that into consideration the next time a married man or woman comes on to you.

Anyone else care to chime in and tell me if I’m just way to far off base?


-Stephen
yell if you want...but remember it's just my opinion and I'm intitled to it. Just as you are yours.

THIS POST IS DIRECTED AT NOBODY IN PARTICULAR. JUST OBSERVATIONS I HAVE MADE AND FINALY DECIDED TO POST ABOUT!I DO NOT INTEND ANY OFFENCE OR HARM BY ANY OF THIS POST. I AM JUST LOOKING FOR CLARIFICATION

 

[peachykeen]

yeah. I hear ya.

 

[penguindance]

 

[seXieleXie]

yell if you want...but remember it's just my opinion and I'm intitled to it. Just as you are yours.

well, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. you can be as judgemental as you like. however, people don't generally plan to break vows, fall in love with someone who is married, or fall out of love with their spouse.

 

[BgMma]

I have been on both sides of the cheating equation, the cheater and the other woman.

I didn't like it and I wouldn't do it again.

it is a sad and pathetic existence and I am glad a grew up. Too bad some of us don't.

 

[S.Daedalus]

Re: Re: What is with people!!!!!

well, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. you can be as judgemental as you like. however, people don't generally plan to break vows, fall in love with someone who is married, or fall out of love with their spouse.

Good point...

 

[peachykeen]

Re: Re: What is with people!!!!!

well, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. you can be as judgemental as you like. however, people don't generally plan to break vows, fall in love with someone who is married, or fall out of love with their spouse.

look obviously 'shit happens' and a marriage may not be working out - however, you entered into a contract of marriage as an adult, and you should be fucking grown up enough about it to know that if you cheat, you are sacrificing just that bit of your integrity that allows you to no longer say truthfully that you are a person who honors your commitments and whose word can be taken as truth. Is the trade off worth it? I don't think it would be for me personally.

 

[capricious_chic]

So I am probably way off base, but I truly think that it is only in the last hundred years or so that this whole idea of fidelity has entered into the equation.

Once upon a time, people married because it was expected of them. It was a pre-arranged thing. Most commonly, the first two children belonged to the married couple. After that, it was any one's guess. It was accepted that couples did not always live together. The reason for marriage being security, and the assurance of a bloodline.

Then we started getting married for love. Sometimes this works, sometimes it does not. Depends upon the people entering into it.
Marriage has pretty much become a disposable commodity that people enter into with the idea that if it doesn't work out, then one can divorce. A fairly sad commentary, but true nonetheless.

It really is no different now, than any time in the past. People do truly fucked up things, and will always continue to do so. For many, life is one big game. For other's, they take it way too seriously. Occasionally we meet people that are somewhere right in the middle, and they are the most entertaining.

Why worry with what other's are doing? All we can do, in the long run, is control our own actions. We can not control other's, nor can we define what is appropriate for all.

 

[La Huesera]

My 2 cents...fwiw. I did somethings when I was younger that I am not proud of. At the time, my thoughts were.."I'm not married, I'm not the one cheating..I'm doing nothing wrong". Now that I am older..and married, I relize that what I did was wrong (for me anyway). No one lied to me and told me that they were not married.. I knew he was married..and did what I wanted anyway. I could say that I was alone, that she(the wife) never found out, that I hurt no one, but you know what... I did. In the end, I hurt myself. I lost respect for myself, I lost what makes me me.
I can't go back and change what I did.. and I am not going to make an excuse for it either, because for me there is none. The only thing I can do is live with what I have done, NEVER DO IT AGAIN, and hope that she never finds out. She should not have to pay for what I did. As for him, I hope he is keeping it in his pants now.. lets hope he has grown up as well.

 

[peachykeen]

I don't know, capricious. Of course we can all only be responsible for our own actions, but - ok , let me give you an example.

A couple of years ago, mr keen worked with this guy who was serially unfaithful to his wife. Every time they were out of town (he and mr k went to a few conventiony things together) this guy was either hooking up in the hotel bar or trying to talk mr k into 'whaddya say we make a call, get us a coupla girls up here'. He had the whole story of how the wife doesn't want to let him near her anymore since the second kid was born, blah blah blah, but at the company picnic of course this guy is the picture of happy-family-man, introducing the wife and kids etc etc.

As part of the review process at this company, they did peer review which means each person chooses 3 colleagues to submit an anonymous review to the boss. One of the categories in the review is about trust, reliability, and so forth. Mr K fills in "wouldn't trust this guy as far as I could throw him, he has lied to everyone's face in this place." See what I'm getting at?

 

[Secret Pleasure]

Why worry with what other's are doing? All we can do, in the long run, is control our own actions. We can not control other's, nor can we define what is appropriate for all.

Just a comment that came to thought...

Why worry about what other's are doing? Well because sometimes what other's do affects us directly. We could be the one they're hurting in these equations.

 

[capricious_chic]

Peachy, absolutely I understand what you are saying.

In such instances we choose not to associate with such individuals. We can't control what they will do, but we can control what we do, and whom we choose to associate with.

I base most of my opinions on another person's actions. Should they prove untrustworthy, then I don't afford them my trust. (although, I rarely trust people anyway..lol)

I am not saying it is acceptable behavior, just that people will do such things. We can't control it, we can only determine if it is acceptable to us or not. For me, it is not. In any aspect of the equation. I have known people that have cheated. I have known people who have been cheated on. I, myself, have been part of the equation. I have little, to no respect for people who do not have the ability to be honest with themselves, or their spouse/mate/so.. etc. Whatever part of the equation you are on, it is somehow directly related to you. For me, it was being to young and naive to see the signs of a mate cheating. I made a bad choice in choosing a mate. We live, we learn. Hopefully, if we are wise enough and lucky enough, we don't repeat mistakes.

Secret, my thought is, when other's do things that directly affect us.. then we have made an unwise choice. We have to control whom we let into our lives, and the amount of influence they will have on it. Yes, sometimes we get hurt. We then learn to make better choices.

 

[Secret Pleasure]

Cool I understand what you're saying Capricious.

I just didn't completely agree with your earlier statement.

I watched one of my parents carry on a LONG term affair on my other parent. Didn't understand it completely at first as I was way too young at the time, but as I got older and noticed things more I began to put the pieces together. That affected me whether I wanted it to or not. I was too young to be able to do anything else.

 

[S.Daedalus]

It just feels like it has become sociably accepted. Like it is to be expected. It is something that EVERYONE does. And I don't like that. It isn't something that everyone does. And it isn't something that should be done in the first place.

- Stephen

 

[Shadowann2]

I don't think it has become socialy acceptable. I just think it is more talked about. How many men do you think cheated on their wives during the wars? People didn't talk about it but it happened. It just happened far from home so it was easier to ignore. I don't think it is ever RIGHT to cheat, but you really have to look at each case individually to understand why they did it. You can't judge people untill you have walked a mile in their shoes.

 

[S.Daedalus]

I don't think it has become socialy acceptable. I just think it is more talked about. How many men do you think cheated on their wives during the wars? People didn't talk about it but it happened. It just happened far from home so it was easier to ignore. I don't think it is ever RIGHT to cheat, but you really have to look at each case individually to understand why they did it. You can't judge people untill you have walked a mile in their shoes.

My dear,

You bring up some EXCELLENT points. That well..quite frankly I can not rebut. Maybe too..as I grow up I am more witness to it...and it is not some evolutionary change that has occurred in the "SIN FILLED" world of today, but rather that it has been an evolutionary change in myself that I just can't seem to handle.

I will never walk a mile in anyone else’s shoes...only in mine...but I’ll listen to your stories about their walks in their shoes.

-Stephen

 

[Guest]

I try not to judge others, but I personally have no respect for someone who is unfaithful to their spouse. (I'm not talking about open marriages or any situation where this is acceptable to the couple, obviously.) I am referring to the secret affairs, the hidden things that would hurt or even devastate a relationship if the other person actually found out.

There will always be many different situations, but unless the marriage is truly over, and divorce proceedings are actually in the works . . . there is really no excuse for this kind of betrayal.

And as peachykeen stated so well - if coworkers know of the situation, it can have a negative effect on a career. How CAN you trust this kind of person? How can you believe anything they say when they are able to lie so convincingly to the spouse they have 'legally' pledged to love above all else?

Nope. No excuse.

But - ummm, that's just my opinion!

 

[MaggieH]

My husband moved in with our office manager, destroying two marriages and my company all in one shot. The thing that amazes...and disgusts...me is that they seem to think no-one should have a negative opinion about what they did, even though they hurt several people.

 

[millhouseBob]

I think you are right Stephen,

marriages last because of commitment. But that said, commitment is not love, or maybe it's a different type of love than what you started out with.

capricious_chic makes a very pertinant obsertvation - fidelity in NOT human nature or even natural in any sense. Marriage was important for the survival of the species - but that is all, there is no morality to it.

I think this is much too complex an issue to make absolute judgement. Wait until you have been married to one woman for 20 years and then tell me that you cannot understand why someone might need to look outside the house for love. People change and their needs change and rarely will two people change at the same pace or in the same direction. Commitment will keep them together, but at what cost? I have become more liberal over the years so now I am way to the left of my wife, so much that we rarely talk politics anymore; I have found other people to share that part of myself with. And the same with sports - we do different activities (with different people). But what if our need for intimacy is different? Now the most basic need cannot (according to society) be satisfied elsewhere.

In the end it comes down to balancing needs and trying to do the best you can for everyone - spouse, kids, and even yourself.

MillhouseBob

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Woah...

I hate saying this. It goes against everything I've always thought I was. But the truth is this:
Yes, it is wrong.
Yes, others get hurt, and that's what makes it wrong.
But more importantly, no one really cares any more who they hurt. There are a few of us, here and there, but for the most part, life is about "me" now, not "you" or "them" and sadly, not even about "the kids" which it should always be about first, but always "me."
The problem is this, in my humble opinion. Our culture (speaking of the U.S., where I live) sells everything on the level of instant gratification. People no longer raise thier kids, popular culture does, and popular culture no longer sells values in the long term, but merely makes a quick buck and moves on. Marriage is a long term value, but sex is instant gratification. We're taught to pursue the second, where the importance lies in the first. We're also not quite growing up any more, and therefore never quite ready to take responsibility for our actions. Everything comes down to:
"It's not my fault!"
"What did I do to you?!"

Well, you fucked another man/woman behind my back, that makes it your fault.
ANd fucking him/her, that's what you did, dumbass!
How hard is that?Not hard at all, but when we choose to ignore it...
Sorry, I'm rambling. My point is basically this: Don't try to control it, don't think about it any more than you absolutely have to, and don't expect it to change.People will do as they please, and showing them reason...beating a dead horse. If they wanted to see it, they would have without your help. People are simply going to hurt people, and that's that. It's a sad fact of life, and I believe it's getting more common, f course, I'm 25, it's not like I've been paying attention since the early nineteen hundreds or anything.
All we can do is know ourselves, own ourselves, and respect ourselves.
Oh, and in response to a few specific points, yes, during the wars people cheated and left it over seas. The point of it then was to escape the reality of war, a situation that one could not just change. And unless you contracted VD, no harm was truly done. The disrespect tends to be the most damaging part in terms of how it affects the partner, not the act itself. It makes us feel obsolete, like we can be easily replaced by another lover. It also makes us feel as though we're not good enough to keep our partner's attention and warrant thier respect and love. That isn't much of an issue when you're separated by millions of miles. When your husband fucks a prostitute in Vietnam, it's because he needs an escape and can't reach you. When he fucks the neighbor, while you're in bed sleeping, you're right there, being denied for the attention of another. That's bullshit, regardless of the reason.
And if your marriage changes over time, remember two things. One: relationships change, all of them, with or without marriage. You stay or you leave, those are the options. Disrespecting your partner is not the way to handle the situation. And two: you chose, regardless of what led you to do so, to be involved. As an adult, you're responsible for the outcome of such decisions, whether they're for better or worse, as the vows say. Don't be an asshole, deal with it.

 

[april-wine]

It has nothing to do with youth....These days we live in a disposable society....You don't like it, you dump it and find something you like....No more trying to make things better, no more looking in the mirror and asking if maybe I need to change....It's all about ME baby and if I ain't getting what I need I'll find it where I can....

It's a sad scenario I agree....My folks have been married 31 years, not all of them were blissful....But they stuck it out, worked it out, looked at each other and remembered what love was all about....Commitment it gets harder and harder to find these days....

 

[celiaKitten]

(Taking the whole cheating question out of this situation)

But is it better for someone to stay in a marriage and be generally miserable, just because it might hurt others?

That is an alarming expectation, to say the least. I do not owe anyone so much as to live in unhappiness for an extended period of time.

 

[Guest]

Re: I think you are right Stephen,

marriages last because of commitment. But that said, commitment is not love, or maybe it's a different type of love than what you started out with. . . . MillhouseBob

Yes. Exactly right. Commitment is a different kind of love than what you started out with. And it is hard fucking work.

What I notice today is that people are not willing to put in the time needed. It's amazing. Why shouldn't you spend at least as much time on your marriage as you do on your career?

People do grow apart, things do change - that's life. EVERYTHING changes. I do not believe, however, that fidelity is impossible. We are not rabbits - we certainly can control the impulse to fuck everything on two legs. (actually, if you check that argument historically, it refers to MEN as not being able to be monogamous - not women - women are supposed to be perfectly happy with one man)

It's been 15+ years for us - has it been easy? Hell, no. We've already been through some rough times (an interesting mother-in-law, our young son's surgeries, a near bankruptcy) and I expect more, especially as the kids get older.

Should everyone stay married? Of course not. There are miserable people in intolerable situations - there will always be a need for divorce. Sometimes that's the only answer. (screwing your neighbor because you're unhappy, however, probably isn't! lol)

Quiet_Cool is so right when he said, ". . . you chose, regardless of what led you to do so, to be involved. As an adult, you're responsible for the outcome of such decisions, whether they're for better or worse, as the vows say. Don't be an asshole, deal with it."

Yep.

 

[S.Daedalus]

Re: Re: I think you are right Stephen,

A Little to much for a little to long