What is "the good life?"

[Roxanne Appleby]

What are the central concerns of life? What do you consider "the good life?"

There have been many formulations through the ages. For Aristotle, all things have a final purpose or telos, which is to realize their implicit perfection. The telos of an acorn is to be a tall and strong oak tree. For humans, pursuing a career, raising a family, devotion to a creative vocation, and acquiring property are perhaps the most widespread of long-term purposes that make life meaningful according to such a philosophy. (The concept should not be pushed too hard. Michelangelo was only 2 out of 4 from this list, and who will say he did not achieve his "purpose"?)

A modern iteration of the Aristotlean conception is described by Charles Murray in a quote I've repeated often here:

"For many readers (in the upper echelons of professional life), the focus of that search for meaning is bound up with vocation--for some, the quest to be rich and famous; for others, the quest to excel in a vocation one loves. But it is an option open to only to a lucky minority. For most people--including many older people who in their youths focused on vocation--life acquires meaning through the stuff of life: the elemental events associated with birth, death, growing up, raising children, paying the rent, dealing with adversity, comforting the bereaved, celebrating success, applauding the good and condemning the bad; coping with life as it exists around us in all its richness."

I've biased the discusson with these Aristotlean conceptions because they are what I am most familiar with, and attracted to. Hopefully someone familiar with or partial to other formulations of "the good life" will share them.

So - what do you consider "the good life" to consist of, or to require?

 

[elsol]

A good death.

 

[matriarch]

For me, the good life would encompass a feeling of contentment with my life; in love, in employment, in finances, in home, in family, in environment, in health. The feeling each day that when I wake up, I feel like smiling, just because ...

What I have right now, in my immediate circle of life, is pretty close to that; I share my life, love, home and heart with the woman I love, and who, strangely, loves me (no accounting for taste); I have a secure job, enough money to live on, a home (admittedly, not ours, but its home). Both my sons are happy, content, and secure in their lives and independence. I live in a stunningly beautiful part of the country, with little or no pollution, wonderful scenery, which lifts my soul in so many ways. My only personal low spot is the level of my health and fitness. Details are unecessary, we'll just say I'm a lazy old bat, and I need to diet and exercise, if only to get the doctor 'off my back'.

Outside of my immediate daily sphere, I have parents who are ageing and physically ailing - in those 'wearing out' ways that come with old age, despite their minds being still as sharp as tacks at 86 and 87. I could wish them better health and the comfort of knowing all their children are living good lives - happy and contented. It is, after all, what I wish for mine. Unfortunately......

I have a younger sister stricken with Multiple Sclerosis and many associated problems - health, financial and marital. I would wish for her security and comfort for the remaining years of her life (which will not be many).

I have an older brother going through chemo/radio therapy at the moment. He lives alone, on the other side of the world, and has many friends, but his biggest comfort is the weekly visit of his teenager daughter who stays with him every weekend and looks after him. I don't know what I would wish him, except an end to his months of pain and discomfort and a return to relative good health.

I have a younger brother who is 'not good with money', and this has caused him great problems in the last couple of years. I would wish him some kind of calmness of spirit that would allow him to live within his means and remove the stress that this time has put on him and his family.

I have friends with problems, mainly monetary, a huge stress factor in all our lives. For them, it has to be the lottery.

The one thing missing from my personal good life, is the ability to help all those whom I love, in the practical ways that would mean something to them. Unfortunately, I know that these are things I can do nothing about, and for me that is a source of great sadness.

I'm working on it.

 

[scheherazade_79]

The Good Life isn't about being a millionaire, or having a high-powered job, or influential friends, or the kind of life partner that people in the street lust after. It's about being comfortable - with who you are, where you are in life, who you're with and what you have.

Sometimes the people who appear to have the most turn out to be the unhappiest.

At the end of the day it all boils down to freedom, and a willingness to cut yourself free from the expectations and pressures that society pushes on you.

Playing the game by the rule book is a recipe not only for The Shitty Life, but also for The Bitter Life, because we live in a world where the more law-abiding citizens are the ones who are crapped on / taxed / cheated the most.

The Good Life = throwing caution to the wind and following your own star.

 

[S-Des]

The Good Life isn't about being a millionaire, or having a high-powered job, or influential friends, or the kind of life partner that people in the street lust after. It's about being comfortable - with who you are, where you are in life, who you're with and what you have.

Sometimes the people who appear to have the most turn out to be the unhappiest.

I agree with this part 100% (we'll agree to disagree about the rest ). To me, it's finding the things in your life that make you happy and proud. The sacrifices I've made for my daughter make my life feel more fulfilled, even though I know other people think I've gotten screwed. The relationship with Kiten is something I never expected to find, even though it is difficult to be so far from her...especially when she needs me. It makes me happy, despite the difficulties. I'm hoping to work myself out of debt and find a way to pull together my personal life. That would be a good life to me, even though it doesn't leave much of a mark on society. I would say that is my main regret, that I didn't do more for others and hope to make inroads there before I go.

 

[Pure]

good lives.

i can't really think in terms of "the good life," as any one pattern or even two, such as murray suggests:

"For many readers (in the upper echelons of professional life), the focus of that search for meaning is bound up with vocation--for some, the quest to be rich and famous; for others, the quest to excel in a vocation one loves. But it is an option open to only to a lucky minority. For most people--including many older people who in their youths focused on vocation--life acquires meaning through the stuff of life:

He seems to suggest that there are the Jarviks and the Clarence Darrows, and the rest of us breed and socialize the next generation.

I think a potter can have a good life, and a home building contractor, and a wedding photographer. Even the elevator repairman who keeps the elevators well maintained in Howard Roark's latest skyscraper.

Nietzsche said the highest types, note the 's' were the philosopher, the saint and the artist. Let's say, Plato, St Francis of Assisi and Gauguin. I think he's not far off the mark. Of course, all three needed basic necessities, but the last was, at times, desperately poor and sick.
---

PS What missing in Murray's approach in an appreciation of 'choice.' If you 'choose' to be a surgeon and do OK, that's your good life; if someone else chooses to breed award winning African hairless dogs, and does all right, then she has 'the good life.'

Humans arguably have no purpose that they are born with-- not even reproduction [see St. Francis]--only what they choose; which in turn defines their 'good.' Even in the case of someone who chooses to be among the elite snipers in the US Army.

ADDED: I see Scheherezade, above, had made this last point, more concisely.

 

[cantdog]

The Good Life isn't about being a millionaire, or having a high-powered job, or influential friends, or the kind of life partner that people in the street lust after. It's about being comfortable - with who you are, where you are in life, who you're with and what you have.

Sometimes the people who appear to have the most turn out to be the unhappiest.

At the end of the day it all boils down to freedom, and a willingness to cut yourself free from the expectations and pressures that society pushes on you.

Playing the game by the rule book is a recipe not only for The Shitty Life, but also for The Bitter Life, because we live in a world where the more law-abiding citizens are the ones who are crapped on / taxed / cheated the most.

The Good Life = throwing caution to the wind and following your own star.

Freedom is a higher good than safety, but the star needn't be your own star.

Happiness recedes if you grab for it; it cannot be pursued directly. But like mats, one day you kinda look around and realize you have it.

 

[Liar]

If your friends are your top priority, The Good Life is to always have time to spend with them. If you have kids, being able to provide them with a good present and future, might be The Good Life. If you're a religious person, The Good Life may be to be able to live according to your scipture. For some it's to have a stage and an audience, for others to have a title and a responsibility. For some it's to drink champagne and eat caviar on golden plates. And for some to have a cold beer and a juicy burger at the end of the week.

Put simply: The good life is to not have to compromise on that which is important to you. Whatever that may be.

 

[Pure]

well put, liar.

and arguably after such things as food, medicine, shelter, enough training/educatiion for one's purposes, a bit of camaraderie if wanted, the various "good lives" have not much in common.

 

[jomar]

I see it like matriarch. Contentment.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Pure's characterization of the Murray quote in the OP was off base, perhaps because I should have included more from the article it's from. The context is how to live a meaningful life in an age of plenty and security compared to all previous ages:

"Throughout history until a few decades ago, the meaning of life for almost everyone was linked to the challenge of simple survival. Staying alive required being a contributing part of a community. Staying alive required forming a family and having children to care for you in your old age. The knowledge that sudden death could happen at any moment required attention to spiritual issues. Doing all those things provided deep satisfactions that went beyond survival.

"Life in an age of plenty and security requires none of those things. For the great majority of people living in advanced societies, it is easily possible to go through life accompanied by social companions and serial sex partners, having a good time, and dying in old age with no reason to think that one has done anything significant.

"(If you agree with me that there is more to life is than just whiling away the time as pleasantly as possible), that to live a human life can have transcendental meaning, then we need to think about how human existence acquires weight and consequence.

"For many (in the upper echelons of professional life), the focus of that search for meaning is bound up with vocation--for some, the quest to be rich and famous; for others, the quest to excel in a vocation one loves. But it is an option open to only to a lucky minority. For most people--including many older people who in their youths focused on vocation--life acquires meaning through the stuff of life: the elemental events associated with birth, death, growing up, raising children, paying the rent, dealing with adversity, comforting the bereaved, celebrating success, applauding the good and condemning the bad; coping with life as it exists around us in all its richness."

In other words, Murray's formulation is not really prescriptive, that everyone should try to be a Jarvik or Darrow. Instead, he recognizes that for most profession will not provide the central source of meaning for a person's life. Where then is meaning to be found to an "age of plenty and security, if you agree with his premise, that "a human life can have transcendental meaning?"

Nothing requires one to accept that premise, though. Perhaps that premise should be the real subject of this thread. Can the average person experience a life of "transcendental meaning," or is the only "purpose" to "while away the time as pleasantly as possible?" If the former, is he correct that the "stuff of life" as he describes it can provide that purpose?

I am very attracted to Murray's formulation, but to be honest, what meaning there exists in my own life comes from my career. His words contain a warning for me: "For most people--[I]including many older people who in their youths focused on vocation[/I]--life acquires meaning through the stuff of life

 

[Liar]

"The average life is full of near misses and absolute hits, of great love and small disasters. It's made up of banana milkshakes, loft insulation, and random shoes. It's dead ordinary and truly, truly amazing. What you've got to realise is it's all here now. So breathe deep and swallow it whole because take it from me, life just whizzes by."



A dancing nana to the first to name that quote.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

I think simply put, the good life would mean being happy.

The things that make each of us happy are different, so the qualifications for the good life would be different from person to person. In the end though, it all boils down to being happy.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I think simply put, the good life would mean being happy.

The things that make each of us happy are different, so the qualifications for the good life would be different from person to person. In the end though, it all boils down to being happy.

Ah, but what is happy - your statement may be a bit of a tautology. See this thread: "Happiness is a serious problem," http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=481014

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Ah, but what is happy - your statement may be a bit of a tautology. See this thread: "Happiness is a serious problem," http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=481014

Happiness is something that you must define for yourself. It means different things to different people. I can't assign happiness to you, nor could you assign it to me.

My wife is out of town on a shopping trip right now. This is a big deal for her. She and her mom do this every year. They go to Nashville for 2 days. I'm talking hotel room and the whole 9 yards. It makes her happy.

Personally, I'd rather take an ass whipping that spend two days at Opry Mills.

Happiness is like beauty, it's in the eye of the beholder.

 

[elsol]

How do you expect an external judgement to be applied to an internal experience?

I find the idea of being a priest shiverous... yet I've met some who believe it is 'their purpose and calling', and they are all among the few people that I have ever met who seemed truly to live a trancendental life.

If an external judgement can be applied... then please define 'a trancendental life', as soon as we're done arguing about that we can decide if an average person... something else you need to define... can have one?

From what I have seen... I think an average person can live a worthwhile life... if my little brother doesn't fuck up his daughter's life, he'll have led a worthwhile life in my eyes.

 

[Pure]

murray said, "For many (in the upper echelons of professional life), the focus of that search for meaning is bound up with vocation--for some, the quest to be rich and famous; for others, the quest to excel in a vocation one loves. But it is an option open to only to a lucky minority. For most people--including many older people who in their youths focused on vocation--life acquires meaning through the stuff of life: the elemental events associated with birth, death, growing up, raising children, paying the rent, dealing with adversity, comforting the bereaved, celebrating success, applauding the good and condemning the bad; coping with life as it exists around us in all its richness."

Roxanne said, In other words, Murray's formulation is not really prescriptive, that everyone should try to be a Jarvik or Darrow.

I NOwhere said that Murray was prescribing that we be like those two. Rather I said that Murry had a rather elitist analysis, based on a *DEscription* of 1% finding fulfillment in the "upper echelons"** of a profession, and other 99% fufilling themselves through physical and social reproductive activities.

[Added: From Murray's point of view,] It's hardly worth *prescribing* anything for the masses of untalented, except to vote for minimal taxes for government and for social welfare.

There is an elitism in Aristotle, Nietzsche and Rand. I'll take N's version, since it's not monolithic: the artist, the saint, the philosopher are among the "highest types." Julius Caesar may represent another, and likewise Jesus or the historical Buddha. Aristotle recognized the philosophers.

[para deleted]

===

**(not even the ordinary family dr. will do, for Murray's 'transcendence')

 

[amicus]

It seems an appropo time to insert an offering, such as it is.

I have the luxury of speaking from a position of having enjoyed the 'good life', aka Frank Sinatra, from several aspects; success, marital bliss, a family, grandchildren, professional acceptance by peers, recognition and self satisfaction of dreams and goals reached and grasped.

But I sense dear Roxanne has something more intimate in mind and, for her and Ms. Rand's gratification, I think it was found in Aristotle's, writings, although it could have been Plato or Socrates, but that is another discussion.

In my seldom recognized literary efforts, I make this teasing, tempting and slightly tautological by relating a thin theme in a story line of a man teasing a young woman by asking "what is the most sexual organ...", the answer being; the mind, which she failed, miserably, until a demonstration of anticipation was instituted...

While many have offered specific and personal opinions as to what the 'good life' is composed of, in typical subjective humanist terms, all have refrained from an 'universal' or axiomatic response, which, forgive me, is what I think Roxanne is seeking...

The 'mind' is not only the sexiest organ a human possesses; it is also the source of the greatest joy a human can experience and thus, the definition of the, 'good life', must be founded on that axiom.

"To learn, is the greatest joy a human can experience..." a paraphrase, from one of the Philosophers I referenced earlier.

It is not the Hedonistic pursuit of fleshly pleasures, nor the sometimes vain search for happiness or perfection that rules the roost of the 'good life', rather the joy of seeking answers and finding them.

And it lasts a lifetime, if I may presume to say.

amicus...

 

[cantdog]

Dude. "The joy of seeking answers and finding them."

 

[Chantilyvamp]

My good life is simple but it is mine and may not be anyone elses.

A good life is:

Having food to put in ones mouth
Shelter from the cold, wet and wind
Something to cover the body in
Laughter every day
Tears at least once a month to remind us of what we really need
Arms to be held in
Hot sex in the rain on a summers day
A roller coaster to give you thrills
To see the smile light my daughters face when I come down the stairs
Friends to stand with you when you need it most and you with them when they need it most

I dont need all the strappings that it seems one believes. What I need is simple. Family, friends and to live. Give me a shack and I'll make it home. Give me a snake and I'll make you a snack. Give me some flour and we'll have a cake to go with the party.

 

[elsol]

murray said, "For many (in the upper echelons of professional life), the focus of that search for meaning is bound up with vocation--for some, the quest to be rich and famous; for others, the quest to excel in a vocation one loves. But it is an option open to only to a lucky minority. For most people--including many older people who in their youths focused on vocation--life acquires meaning through the stuff of life: the elemental events associated with birth, death, growing up, raising children, paying the rent, dealing with adversity, comforting the bereaved, celebrating success, applauding the good and condemning the bad; coping with life as it exists around us in all its richness."

Roxanne said, In other words, Murray's formulation is not really prescriptive, that everyone should try to be a Jarvik or Darrow.

I NOwhere said that Murray was prescribing that we be like those two. Rather I said that Murry had a rather elitist analysis, based on a *DEscription* of 1% finding fulfillment in the "upper echelons"** of a profession, and other 99% fufilling themselves through physical and social reproductive activities.

It's hardly worth *prescribing* anything for the masses of untalented, except to vote for minimal taxes for government and for social welfare.

There is an elitism in Aristotle, Nietzsche and Rand. I'll take N's version, since it's not monolithic: the artist, the saint, the philosopher are among the "highest types." Julius Caesar may represent another, and likewise Jesus or the historical Buddha. Aristotle recognized the philosophers.

Rand's elitism of the Howard Roarks and the Dominiques is to me the least appealing as representing true fulfillment of human nature. it's known that she had contempt for all the major philosophers before or after Aristotle.

===

**(not even the ordinary family dr. will do, for Murray's 'transcendence')

Why you picking a fight with Roxanne?

I'm one of the one that pokes at her... but this one is unfair.

You know what... yeah, I look at most of the male members of my family and I think, "Be good parents... that's your last saving grace. Don't fuck up your children's life."

She asked a question with text... you clearly have a different position about what's possible for the 99%... I don't know maybe they're like most of us; "It's a job, it does not define me and I laugh at people who it does, it pays well, and I can do the stuff I really want to do."

Awesome... there you go... go with that and maybe rein in some of the attack dogs.

 

[elsol]

Can the average person experience a life of "transcendental meaning," or is the only "purpose" to "while away the time as pleasantly as possible?" If the former, is he correct that the "stuff of life" as he describes it can provide that purpose?

I'm going to go out on a limb.

No.

Trascened to means to go beyond to exceed. How can a life have meaning MORE THAN LIFE, if it's only composed of the 'stuff of life'?

The people that I think trascended life... Milton, Edison, Shakespeare, Einstein, Hemingway, Dylan Thomas... They mark the lifes of others long in a positive fashion long after their own deaths; they teach, their work and life live long past the natural end of it.

Maybe for someone who is not objectively self-aware, the 'stuff of life' can provide transcendendtal meaning... but they won't know it because they're only subjectively aware of themselves.

The only thing I can accept that MIGHT give someone that 'meaning' is their children; yeah, you raised good children who can make more of life than the 'stuff of life'... great, you life will transcend through them, unless a bus kills them all on the way to school.

The part that annoys me is that while billions of people around the world are never given the opportunity to 'transcend' even the lot in life they were born into... while some people who are given every opportunity seemed determined to shit on it.

So there... average people are just that average and they don't even know they're average.

 

[Pure]

el sol Transcend to means to go beyond to exceed. How can a life have meaning MORE THAN LIFE, if it's only composed of the 'stuff of life'?

The people that I think transcended life... Milton, Edison, Shakespeare, Einstein, Hemingway, Dylan Thomas... They mark the lifes of others long in a positive fashion long after their own deaths; they teach, their work and life live long past the natural end of it.

I understand that there are what we may call the "Immortals," ones whose achievements live on for hundreds of years (though some weren't given exception attention for many years after death). 1) Why say they "transcended" anything, including life. They did excel over 99.999% of their peers, judged in the long run.

2) In your opinion, did the Transcenders have any very special talent in the area of REASON.

 

[elsol]

1) Why say they "transcended" anything, including life. They did excel over 99.999% of their peers, judged in the long run.

"One whose achievements live on for hundred of years."

Sounds pretty transcedent to me, once you get out of the realm of your children and grandchildren...

2) In your opinion, did the Transcenders have any very special talent in the
area of REASON.

No... I think some of had a very special in UNREASON.

Out of all the 'immortals' Shakespeare is the one I most admire... if he actually wrote everything he did then I have to give the man props... he was basically a guy trying to get through life getting his bling on and he writes stuff that is taught in schools.

But I'm not the best judge of REASON... one of the most trascendent set of invididuals is the people who braved their fear and tamed wolves. Think about the unreason it takes to risk this animal, which you have every reason to fear, growing up and NOT killing you; Rationally if I'm a cave or pre-historic hut dweller and I see little wolf puppy, I gots me wolf slippers.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

On the issue of "happiness" in the context of this discussion, it's important to distinguish between the momentary feeling and the lifelong state. A useful conceptual tool is “Eudaimonia," a Greek term that means lifelong human flourishing. Here are some more definitions:

‘The Greek word "eudaimonia" for "life" or "the good life," taking the Greek term to mean "well being." Thus, one may also say that telos or natural purpose of humans is eudaimonia. (Like me, the person who wrote this one believes that your purpose in life is your own happiness, or eudaimonia.)

‘Flourishing, however, means something like the successful pursuit of a vast array of physical, mental, and spiritual goods in the context of a life-long plan of values.’

" . . . to live in accordance with the best in human nature . . .”

That's all rather abstract, I know, but for me, the key phrase is "lifelong flourishing."