What if - Trump is right about NK?

[ishtat]

Bill Clinton, George Bush Jnr, and Barrack Obama all appeased the North Korean regime. They all gave concessions in exchange for promises of better behavior from NK. All three former President's were ripped off, conned, and made fools of. The North Koreans reneged on every deal.

Kim had every reason to believe he would get away with it again. The Chinese could afford to snigger from the sidelines, enjoying American discomfort.

But perhaps the equation has shifted. Last week the Chinese and the Russians voted for the new sanctions in the UN - who knows whether they will enforce them, but there is at least some recognition from the Chinese that perhaps NK really is a de-stabilizing factor in the region.

Most Americans might not take much account of the fact that the Japanese also announced last week that they would increase their 'defensive' efforts. Not much account to Americans perhaps, but huge to the Chinese who fear Japan, and who I think would regard a re-arming Japan as a much greater issue than defending NK.

All Trumps statements are ultimately directed to the Chinese, not the North Koreans.

Trumps statements have been crude and rude at best, but was diplomacy working? - clearly not for the past 30 years. I think that Trump could have done much more to destabilize NK utilizing US intelligence services but he messed that up with his own attacks on the CIA.

I would not doubt for a moment Trump's capacity to stuff this situation up, but it does seem that so far he has the backing of Tillerson and the Generals. If he can make Beijing shift a little away from NK he will have achieved something his three predecessors were incapable of.

Cross fingers and hope I guess.

 

[sr71plt]

If such a strong message was coordinated across U.S. agencies and it was recognized as a "back atcha" bluff statement by the president, it would work with the North Koreans as well as anything else has, I think. That's obviously not the case here. Trump said it without any policy discussion at all about saying it, because, as usual, he obviously caught his cabinet members off guard with it. And he's a crazy son of a bitch who is incapable of using it as part of just a "back atcha" bluff call in an actual thought-out policy.

 

[zipman]

Bill Clinton, George Bush Jnr, and Barrack Obama all appeased the North Korean regime. They all gave concessions in exchange for promises of better behavior from NK. All three former President's were ripped off, conned, and made fools of. The North Koreans reneged on every deal.

Kim had every reason to believe he would get away with it again. The Chinese could afford to snigger from the sidelines, enjoying American discomfort.

But perhaps the equation has shifted. Last week the Chinese and the Russians voted for the new sanctions in the UN - who knows whether they will enforce them, but there is at least some recognition from the Chinese that perhaps NK really is a de-stabilizing factor in the region.

Most Americans might not take much account of the fact that the Japanese also announced last week that they would increase their 'defensive' efforts. Not much account to Americans perhaps, but huge to the Chinese who fear Japan, and who I think would regard a re-arming Japan as a much greater issue than defending NK.

All Trumps statements are ultimately directed to the Chinese, not the North Koreans.

Trumps statements have been crude and rude at best, but was diplomacy working? - clearly not for the past 30 years. I think that Trump could have done much more to destabilize NK utilizing US intelligence services but he messed that up with his own attacks on the CIA.

I would not doubt for a moment Trump's capacity to stuff this situation up, but it does seem that so far he has the backing of Tillerson and the Generals. If he can make Beijing shift a little away from NK he will have achieved something his three predecessors were incapable of.

Cross fingers and hope I guess.

Tillerson was definitely not on the same page as Trump.

And his off the cuff comments caught everyone by surprise, including his own administration.

Trump is a blow hard and a disgrace to the office of president. That anyone has any faith whatsoever in this moron is astonishing.

 

[Wrong Element]

Trumps statements have been crude and rude at best, but was diplomacy working? - clearly not for the past 30 years.

Has there been a Korean war in the last 30 years that I somehow missed?

 

[ishtat]

Has there been a Korean war in the last 30 years that I somehow missed?

No you haven't missed a war, but you do appear to have missed the fact that North Korea has steadily developed a nuclear warhead capacity and limited delivery systems, with the apparent blessing of Beijing - and that diplomacy hasn't been too effective in limiting that risk.

Do you have alternative solutions to the NK threat?

 

[FGB]

My take is that Trump is only about 25% crackers...why else would someone like him want the fucking job?

Now.

That fucker running North Korea is 50% Crackers , 25% stupid and 25% Evil.

Then you have S. Korea, Japan,China and Russia in the mix.

Dipstick is getting too big for his britches and is bad for business.

If he makes to Thanksgiving I will be surprised. One of those Anti Aircraft guns might malfunction... or something.

If there is someone better for all concerned to take over to be found well, the clock will start ticking.

Talk about "let's make a deal!"

 

[Hypoxia]

Did previous USA administrations 'appease' the Kim dynasty, or merely see no effective options for dealing with it? Should prior prez's have started WWIII in order to obliterate nasty pissants? What are the trade-offs? A war in Korea now would 1) seriously bugger the world economy, 2) provoke China to protect its pit-bull pet with nukes headed our way, and 3) cut off the world's vital supply of kim-chee. Can't let that happen, hey?

 

[Fala]

I think the US should begin to evac US non-essentials from Guam. That should get Kim jong-un's attention.

Trump needs to keep his mouth SHUT. Who said "speak softly, but carry a big stick"?

The US should BLACK OUT all contact and evacuate Americans from Guam who, as I mentioned, are non-essentials.

If the NK leader strikes our troops in Guam, as he's threatened to do...The US should do everything in their power to take HIM out. Immediately.


...take into account all the innocents in NK.

How the hell do nutcases like Kim jong-un ever come into power without any resistance from any of the millions of people in that country?

Oh, yeah...nevermind his own BROTHER was recently executed so cruelly by acid smeared in his face....

Didn't he recently send one of his own uncles to death by shooting him to death?

This dude is the epitome of Evil. Honest to God, folks. He's dangerous.

 

[Fala]

Did previous USA administrations 'appease' the Kim dynasty, or merely see no effective options for dealing with it? Should prior prez's have started WWIII in order to obliterate nasty pissants? What are the trade-offs? A war in Korea now would 1) seriously bugger the world economy, 2) provoke China to protect its pit-bull pet with nukes headed our way, and 3) cut off the world's vital supply of kim-chee. Can't let that happen, hey?

Oh Gawd no...not the kim-chee!

Yanno, it baffles me why people....no matter what serious issue is at hand...always step back to years ago leaders, politics and what-not.

Like....what happened 8 years ago is going to matter while a missile has been launched toward you...1 minute ago


....gather your thoughts quickly now on how bad it was back then because your life is over in 3...2...1

 

[sr71plt]

I think the US should begin to evac US non-essentials from Guam. That should get Kim jong-un's attention.

If the United States did that, we will have lost the "who leads who around by the nose?" psychological war with Pyongyang altogether. Same if we militarily preemptively attack them. It will be Iraq all over again. Some tin horn foreign leader can jerk us around and tie us up in bleeding resources for decades just by badmouthing us in public.

I suppose there always will be a first time that a country is dumb enough to develop nuclear weapons with the intent to actually use them without a thought to the collateral damage that would be worldwide, but you might as well curl up and kiss your ass good-bye if you're ready to assume that any current nation, including North Korea, is doing that.

Of course if you're dumb enough not to believe in science to begin with . . . which brings us back to Trump and his dopes.

 

[Hypoxia]

The US should BLACK OUT all contact and evacuate Americans from Guam who, as I mentioned, are non-essentials.

Guam is a USA territory with a population over 160,000, almost all of whom are US citizens by birth. Try evacuating them from a remote island... to where?

How the hell do nutcases like Kim jong-un ever come into power without any resistance from any of the millions of people in that country?

They ran the army and killed any dissenters.

This dude is the epitome of Evil. Honest to God, folks. He's dangerous.

He's about par for the course in terms of primitive dynasties. Whoever grabs the throne executes any who look like threats. A new king's relatives and their families are usually the first to go. The Kims would make excellent Byzantine emperors.

Yes, he's an evil little shit. Nice guys don't survive the Darwinian selection process of power struggles. He's smart, rational, manipulative, paranoid, ruthless, and not to be underestimated. Tromp is an amateur in comparison.

 

[Fala]

If the United States did that, we will have lost the "who leads who around by the nose?" psychological war with Pyongyang altogether. Same if we militarily preemptively attack them. It will be Iraq all over again. Some tin horn foreign leader can jerk us around and tie us up in bleeding resources for decades just by badmouthing us in public.

I suppose there always will be a first time that a country is dumb enough to develop nuclear weapons with the intent to actually use them without a thought to the collateral damage that would be worldwide, but you might as well curl up and kiss your ass good-bye if you're ready to assume that any current nation, including North Korea, is doing that.

Of course if you're dumb enough not to believe in science to begin with . . . which brings us back to Trump and his dopes.

How do you know what psychological effect that would have on NK? You do know that every culture around the world is different, do you not?

I'm too tired right now to post any more tonight. Sorry I konked out on your post.

much respect, all the same, doll. good night.

 

[sr71plt]

How do you know what psychological effect that would have on NK?

That (anything having a psychological effect on North Korea) has nothing to do with anything I posted, so I'll give it a pass.