What Gender Is Your Brain?

[jaF0]

Put this here because it's sort of a sexuality thing more than any other.


I stumbled on this headline:

Neuroscience Professor Removed From APA Discussion After Saying There Are Only Two Genders

"It is sad that an audience of supposed scientists is unable to take any dissenting view, such as the suggestion that there really are only two sexes," a psychology and neuroscience professor said in reaction to his removal from an APA email group.

https://www.newsweek.com/neuroscien...ter-saying-there-are-only-two-genders-1591697



First instinct was to more or less agree. Then I began to wonder ... two? More? One? None?


We know that genes are other factors produce body size, shape, organs, etc. Something decides whether to produce semen or eggs. But is that the brain? Suppose all of our brains have both sets of instructions somewhere and something else determines which set are processed?

 

[lovecraft68]

Not sure, but it appears a lot of people are stuck in neutral, and I don't mean gender nuetral

 

[AlexBailey]

Not sure. I identify as non-binary, gender/fluid, gender-queer, but I consider myself mostly male.

I was born male with an older sister to a mother who treated me in a gender neutral way when I was small. I adored my older sister and did most of the same social activities she did until my dad insisted I have short hair and do more men’s sports kind of stuff. I liked the outdoors and getting dirty but I didn’t like the heavy competitive mindset that said if you don’t win you’re a loser, I liked doing things with other kids for the collective fun.

I was out of place as a boy and out of place with the girls. I got teased and called fag and all that fun stuff. I was always interested in girls clothes and wanted to dress that way but my family was not supportive. I was often mistaken for a girl, even with short hair and boys clothes — something about the way I held myself I guess.

I had a stepfather and step brother who were buzzcut pricks. I think that sometimes they were embarrassed and ashamed of me, long before I ever started openly cross-dressing. Feeling so out of place sucked. I nearly took my own life several times before I was an adult, I’m long past that now.

Is my brain male or female? I have XY chromosomes. Some people think that is all there is to it and that I should act and present appropriately. Fuck them.

 

[Goldenfinger]

I think (which doesn’t mean anything) maybe they are interchanging or confusing gender with sex.

 

[CuttingEdge]

I agree with the scientist...

It seems on many fronts science is dead because science no longer matters and how people FEEL is all that matters. Feel like a woman today and you can be one, but feel like a man, and you can be that.

The problem with that is; feelings change.

I think we are doing a disservice to the gender-fluid community because by immense margins they have the highest suicide rates. Instead of helping them with their underlying problem which is becoming comfortable with who they are, we as society just encourage them to embrace how they feel.

Ultimately they end up mutilating their bodies thinking that will solve their problem, and are stuck in a different gender only to find their feelings have changed yet again. Now they are really not comfortable with who they are, but have regret, embarrassment and shame as well, which leads to suicide.

Its really too bad because we should be letting these people know before its too late, that feelings are great, wonderful aspects of human life; but are also very fickle. Gender change is permanent on the other hand.

I am not judgmental at all. I have no doubts at all that a male might feel like they should have been born a female or vice versa; all I am saying is; as a society we should be letting them know that their outlook might change. We are not doing that, and their suicide rate is high because we are encouraging them without giving them caution.

 

[KimGordon67]

Pretty sure it's been fairly clearly demonstrated that the brains of men, women, and anyone else are the same.

Re: the above comment regarding suicide rates. The more recent research shows that the reason that people with marginalised genders/sexualities have higher suicide rates because of the marginalisation, not their gender/sexuality. The problems they experience result from society, not their selves.

Happy to provide citations for both these points if anyone actually cares. (I just gave up doing that routinely on the GB years when it became apparent that no one every looked at them.)

 

[consent_matters]

Just on a biological level and completely aside from people's choice of expression, there is certainly a wide range of possibilities.

There are, of course, the common cases of people who have XX or XY chromosomes and have bodies that completely match what one expects to be associated with those chromosomes.

But that is not everyone. Depending on how one looks at it, that may be no more than 99 out of every 100 people. There several genes beyond the XX and XY chromosomes that affect how genitals develop, and these don't always agree -- so there are people with XY chromosomes who look female, or people with XX chromosomes who look male, and various possibilities in the middle, like a man who went in for hernia surgery at age 70 and discovered he had a uterus (despite having fathered four children).

And this matters medically, not just because those complicated cases may mean that people who appear to be one gender react to medications more like another. It also affects the number of babies who are born each year with genitals that are "intersex"; nowadays it is fairly common for them to have surgery to "correct" their bodies to either male or female, and it's not clear that's actually the right thing to do.

And, of course, this is just in humans. Which may be what's relevant to psychology, but for biologists in general, there's a vast range of possibility. Platypuses have 10 different sex chromosomes; you can bet they are doing something interesting.

Source:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

(Edit to note: jaF0, you would probably find that article quite interesting, as a lot of what it's about is how the gonad tissue and cells decide whether to become testes or ovaries -- which affects whether they produce sperm or eggs, and also what hormones they produce.)

 

[consent_matters]

On another note, I'd point out that we have only the word of the guy who was kicked off the mailing list that it was because of his opinions about the number of genders. If you read the article, the APA email group moderators are fairly clear that that happened to be the opinion he was expressing in the email that got him kicked off the list, but the actual problem was that he was expressing his opinions in ways that were inappropriate to polite differences of opinion.

And, frankly, his response to getting kicked off the list sounds like every self-righteous jerk I've ever seen kicked off a mailing list for being a self-righteous jerk.

 

[KimGordon67]

Just on a biological level and completely aside from people's choice of expression, there is certainly a wide range of possibilities.

There are, of course, the common cases of people who have XX or XY chromosomes and have bodies that completely match what one expects to be associated with those chromosomes.

But that is not everyone. Depending on how one looks at it, that may be no more than 99 out of every 100 people. There several genes beyond the XX and XY chromosomes that affect how genitals develop, and these don't always agree -- so there are people with XY chromosomes who look female, or people with XX chromosomes who look male, and various possibilities in the middle, like a man who went in for hernia surgery at age 70 and discovered he had a uterus (despite having fathered four children).

And this matters medically, not just because those complicated cases may mean that people who appear to be one gender react to medications more like another. It also affects the number of babies who are born each year with genitals that are "intersex"; nowadays it is fairly common for them to have surgery to "correct" their bodies to either male or female, and it's not clear that's actually the right thing to do.

And, of course, this is just in humans. Which may be what's relevant to psychology, but for biologists in general, there's a vast range of possibility. Platypuses have 10 different sex chromosomes; you can bet they are doing something interesting.

Source:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

(Edit to note: jaF0, you would probably find that article quite interesting, as a lot of what it's about is how the gonad tissue and cells decide whether to become testes or ovaries -- which affects whether they produce sperm or eggs, and also what hormones they produce.)

I think it's fairly clear it's the wrong thing to do (again, backed by a fair bit of research). It's treating natural diversity like some sort of mistake, and really demonstrates how committed we are to a binary system, that we have to force people's bodies to confirm to that system. (There are some cases where surgical intervention is medically indicated, but they're pretty rare.)

 

[AlexBailey]

...The more recent research shows that the reason that people with marginalised genders/sexualities have higher suicide rates because of the marginalisation, not their gender/sexuality. The problems they experience result from society, not their selves.

This. Well said, Kim.

The only problem i've ever had with being male is how I did not meet my family's and societies expectations of a male.


Some questions:

What about how someone presents is intrinsically linked to their chromosomes?

Is there anything about someone else's gender that matters if you are not planning to couple with them?

What is the problem with a male who wants to wear a dress or eyeshadow? Style has changed throughout the centuries, sometimes men wore things that are now considered strictly female. It used to be a crime in many places for women to wear pants. It's not against the law for a guy to cross dress but it can be dangerous for them.

What does it matter if someone wants to be referred to as Mrs, Mr, Ms, or Miss? Why have those titles ever been relevant? To display a woman's availibiity?

I know men and women who have been disowned by their families because of how they pressent. Why? What is so important about adhering to the social construct of style that someone would reject their own children over it? Who has the fucked up priorities and the mental issues there?



Being bullied and harassed is stressful. It eats at you and makes you feel less in the face of abusers. Some say the solution is simple--act the way you're supposed to. Is life about conformity? Is it about pleasing other's pointless sensitivities? Isn't that what someone is asking for when they want someone else to conform with their expectations? It's funny how so many complain that trans people are trying to make society conform to them.

 

[Escierto]

This.

The only problem i've ever had with being male is how I did not meet my family's and societies expectations of a male.


Some questions:

What about how someone presents is intrinsically linked to their chromosomes?

Is there anything about someone else's gender that matters of you are not planning to couple with them?

What is the problem with a male who wants to wear a dress or eyeshadow? Style has changed throughout the centuries, sometimes men wore things that are now considered strictly female. It used to be a crime in many places for women to wear pants. It's not against the law for a guy to cross dress but it can be dangerous for them.

What does it matter if someone wants to be referred to as Mrs, Mr, Ms, or Miss? Why have those titles ever been relevant? To display a woman's availibiity?

I know men and women who have been disowned by their families because of how they pressent. Why? What is so important about adhering to the social construct of style that someone would reject their own children over it? Who has the fucked up priorities and the mental issues there?



Being bullied and harassed is stressful. It eats at you and makes you feel less in the face of abusers. Some say the solution is simple--act the way you're supposed to. Is life about conformity? Is it about pleasing other's pointless sensitivities? Isn't that what someone is asking for when they want someone else to conform with their expectations? It's funny how so many complain that trans people are trying to make society conform to them.

YES. Unfortunately a lot of haters on lit. I just add them to my ignore list and life goes on.