What defines a feminist?

[KillerMuffin]

Color me clueless. I was told that I'm anti-feminist today because I don't think women should be in combat. Not cause they aren't vicious enough killers or should be protected, but because most of them are physically incapable of doing the job without the standards being lowered. Trust me darlins, I'm a hooah macho ubermasculine chickypoo, but after shouldering my Stud's LBE and ruck then falling flat on my ass and not being able to stand back up, well. If she can do the job as the standards stand, that's a different story and she makes more money working for those wrestling people anyway.

Anyway. Here I stand, the anti-feminist, bringing all women down.

Maybe I oughta whoop her ass.

 

[Never]

There is more then one type of feminist, and I would definitely call you one.

KM, if the only women allowed into combat were the few that were 100% physically capable, would you have answered otherwise?

 

[KillerMuffin]

Uh...

You know, I never thought of it that way.

*scratches head*

Yeah, I would have answered otherwise. If she can do the job, then she should be allowed to.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

KM. I'm wid chew.

I put my remarks on the Marine Corps thread.
Yes, the military should be open to anyone.
But there is a difference between male and female.
My cats prove that everyday.
The toms are bigger than the females.
The females spend all day providing.
The Toms spend all day fighting and scavaging!

It's true. You can't make this stuff up!

 

[WriterDom]

There is more then one type of feminist, and I would definitely call you one.

KM, if the only women allowed into combat were the few that were 100% physically capable, would you have answered otherwise?

Wasn't there a movie about her? G.I. Jane or something.. you go girl

 

[nasty]

Not true

I mean, COME ON MAN, look at some of those female wrestlers,(btw-seen them on ET,)THEY'VE GOT MUSCLES!!!!! Personally I was REALLY interested about Liz Dole running. If I liked her politics, I WOULD CERTAINLY vote for her. I'm glad we FINALLY have the WNBA, although I don't ever watch it because I don't really like basketball that much.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

I voted for Bob. I would vote for Lizzy.


Texan being emotional is a hoot [another thread mind you!].

Like me being rational!

 

[lavender]

 

[nasty]

Now...

if we could just get Bob Dole to stop taping the Viagra commercials. UH....*shivering uncontrollably*

 

[Andra_Jenny]

I love those those commercials!

Especially when he tells the dog to calm down!

 

[KillerMuffin]

That's the Pepsi commercial AJ.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Well, I did turn the TV off. But Carville still keeps talking to me!


Should I seek help or just vote Democratic?

 

[Problem Child]

Wasn't there a movie about her? G.I. Jane or something.. you go girl

Yeah, it totally sucked too.

I'm not so sure about women being in combat. I'm think if the chips were down, some women would perform better than some men in the trenches. After all, the military is a cross-section of society at large, and there are male whimps and cowards in the military, just like in RL.

My objection to women in combat MOS's or near-front-line MOS's is that they have deleterious effect on peacetime morale. I have seen, first-hand, units that were negatively affected by the introduction of women into close quarters with male soldiers.

Armies have two functions: to kill people and break things. When soldiers are distracted by the presence of women during training, they do not train as well, and are not as prepared for battle, and then they die.

I was in a combat unit, but saw support units with women that had problems with countless sexual harrasment complaints, fraternization, and even a prostitution ring being run out of the top floors of the barracks. The men involved were just as fault as the women, but these problems do exist.

I appreciate the jobs that women do for our military. I just don't think they should be put in jobs that are close to the front line.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Perhaps you should get rid of all electronic devices in your home. That'll stop Carville.

 

[Never]

Yes, there are many types of feminists. In fact, one of the biggest problem that most feminist groups have is that feminist can't agree with one another - on fact they tend to take diametrically opposed positions sometimes.

For instance, when Naomi Wolf first wrote her book 'The Beauty Myth' she was welcomed, whole hog, into the feminist community.. That was until she started saying that abortion, whether legal or not was morally wrong.. then she wrote 'Fire with Fire' that accused feminism of turning women into victims..

On an unrelated note, I remember reading a Rolling Stones article about Madonna. In it Camille Paglia praised her for being a wonderful artist who wasn't afraid to push the envelope for and use her sexuality.

Madonna's comment? "Sometimes, I think [Camille Paglia] is full of shit

 

[Problem Child]

Never

You mean Camille Paglia?

 

[Never]

I suppose, she's soooo before my time anyway.

 

[lavender]

 

[Ezzy]

The size of her gun and ...

then what she thinks of herself.




EZ

 

[Laurel]

My objection to women in combat MOS's or near-front-line MOS's is that they have deleterious effect on peacetime morale. I have seen, first-hand, units that were negatively affected by the introduction of women into close quarters with male soldiers.

Armies have two functions: to kill people and break things. When soldiers are distracted by the presence of women during training, they do not train as well, and are not as prepared for battle, and then they die.

I was in a combat unit, but saw support units with women that had problems with countless sexual harrasment complaints, fraternization, and even a prostitution ring being run out of the top floors of the barracks. The men involved were just as fault as the women, but these problems do exist.

I appreciate the jobs that women do for our military. I just don't think they should be put in jobs that are close to the front line.

I dunno...I'm sure desegregating the military was a bit demoralizing at first, but wasn't it the right thing to do? Okay, so men & women fuck. Men will rape. In the current army, are there not problems with men fighting amongst themselves? And aren't these problems taken care of by discipling the men involved?

The fact that men in today's army can't serve in the same combat unit as women without raping and abusing them speaks volumes. Maybe instead of avoiding the problem, we should confront it and teach these men that criminal acts are not tolerated by our government by ANYONE, especially those in uniform. Yes, these men are out there to fight, but they aren't out there to be psychotic sadists. They are TRAINED weapons of our government. Maybe part of this training should involve learning to coexist with the opposite sex without turning into animals.

I don't want to be in combat - not even a little - but I think it's sad that qualified women who wish to serve their country in this manner are unable to do so because our government refuses to see them as anything but legs in skirts waiting to raped.

But what the hell do I know.

 

[Problem Child]

PC-

I think you missed your calling in life. You needed to be an elementary teacher. I honestly think correcting people gives you an immense pleasure that trickles down your body to the very tips of your toes.

I'm not really trying to be anal, I just think the woman deserves to be noted using her correct name. I wasn't trying to get down on Never.

On second thought, I would like to get down on Never, but that's another topic.

And as for women in combat, I think there are problems with the current set-up. I think the main problem is simply the way society views women and how this pervades into military culture. I think as we continue to evolve (and I'm not saying this is going to occur anytime soon) and women truly receive the proper respect they deserve, then the problems in the military between the sexes could diminish.

I agree totally, and I wish that men and women could co-exist in combat jobs together at full efficiency, but unfortunately the reality is that they don't. The military is packed chock-full of hormone-flooded eighteen-year-olds, and they cannot cope with members of the opposite sex on an everyday basis and still perform their jobs at peak level. Until they can, it's a bad idea to put them in that situation.

 

[lavender]

 

[Problem Child]

I dunno...I'm sure desegregating the military was a bit demoralizing at first, but wasn't it the right thing to do? Okay, so men & women fuck. Men will rape. In the current army, are there not problems with men fighting amongst themselves? And aren't these problems taken care of by discipling the men involved?

The fact that men in today's army can't serve in the same combat unit as women without raping and abusing them speaks volumes. Maybe instead of avoiding the problem, we should confront it and teach these men that criminal acts are not tolerated by our government by ANYONE, especially those in uniform. Yes, these men are out there to fight, but they aren't out there to be psychotic sadists. They are TRAINED weapons of our government. Maybe part of this training should involve learning to coexist with the opposite sex without turning into animals.

I don't want to be in combat - not even a little - but I think it's sad that qualified women who wish to serve their country in this manner are unable to do so because our government refuses to see them as anything but legs in skirts waiting to raped.

But what the hell do I know.

You are concentrating on rape, and of course anyone charged with rape should be prosecuted, and of course rape is wrong, and of course men that do it are animals.

Did you expect me to say that it was the woman's fault? That women being raped was a good reason for them not to be in the military?

Women do an outstanding job in non-combat jobs and are raped while serving in the military in those jobs too, and when the men that do it are caught and convicted, they are punished. This has nothing to do with my argument about women in combat and combat-support jobs and the effect that the co-ed conditions in these units has on morale and training.

 

[Problem Child]

PC -

I was joking. Don't take me so seriously.

I agree with you on the women in combat thingie, to a point. However, do we just shove women back out the doors in the military for these reasons? I think that would set a very bad precedent. I hate to use slippery slope argumentation tactics, but if women are seen as unable to be involved in combat, discrimination can be justified in many other fields. I think it's a no-win situation currently. Until we can get more people's heads out of their asses we're going to have to deal with some problems.

Damn, I'm so eloquent lately. I'll get back to better form later. Not in the mood to take my time right now.

The military has drawn a line and determined that women will be allowed in almost all units except direct front line combat units- infantry, armor, artillery, etc. They are allowed in combat support units such as medical units, even flying helicopters to pick up wounded in the field, military intelligence units that operate as close as 1 km from the "front" and air defense artillery units that operate equally as close.

When the next war comes along, and it will, these women will be involved in combat, and they will be killed. The war in the gulf was an anomoly, because it was so damned one sided, most women never got close to any action. If the next war is anything close to a real fight, lots of females will die. I have no problem with this...if you want to serve, I'm all for it, and you takes your chances. On the other hand, I love women, and am old-fashioned enough to say that when I see women killed in numbers for the first time in U.S. history I will be deeply saddened...more so than if it were men...but that's just me.

But this is not the crux of my argument...I think that women should be allowed to do whatever they want. The problem is that the military is a unique situation...it is life and death, and as we showed in the gulf, the best trained survive...the others die. I simply think that we pay too high a price in terms of training readiness and morale problems during peacetime when men and women are in combat support units...as I said before, I've seen it first hand.

It may seem like a paradox...I think men and women both have the right to get killed in combat, yet I don't want to see women in combat.

The point is.... if men and women live and train and fight together, they both will die in greater numbers than if they are kept separate- and that is too high a price to pay for women's rights.

 

[Laurel]

Did you expect me to say that it was the woman's fault? That women being raped was a good reason for them not to be in the military?

Umm, no. I wasn't expecting you to say anything of the sort. You mentioned the high likelihood of sexual harassment complaints, and I was simply addressing that issue.

I've never been in the military, so I bow to your greater experience in that area. I have, however, worked for private companies. I will say that 50 years ago, women were so frequently mistreated in the workplace that it wasn't even any big deal. Nowadays, women are relatively free from harassment. It didn't just happen - it was a long process of re-educating men AND women about what is and is not proper at work, and convincing companies that their employees would be more efficient if allowed to work in a harassment-free environment.

I understand that coed bunkers brings up all sorts of complications. At the same time, it seems horribly backwards that in this day & age women can't serve their country any durn way they please, so long as they are as physically & mentally as a mam in that position. No, not every man can stay focused on his mission with women in the outfit. Not every woman can handle the rigors of life in war. But then again, not everyone is cut out for combat duty.

But like I said, these are just my opinions. Those of you with military experience have a perspective that I lack.