What can you do with characters who won't do what you want them to?

[DRxBlue]

i'm speaking in the literary sense, not real people. i'm used to people refusing my requests, orders, suggestions, you know.

Characters in a story which YOU are writing should be a different matter. Aren't you supposed to have God-like powers in the worlds you create?

The story i'm working on is already 4 chapters long, i'm working on the 5th, it was SUPPOSED to be 3! i wanta get to the good stuff! The part where I actually get to participate!(i'm gonna be a part-time recurring character in the final work)

These characters keep doing stuff that was NOT in the outline in my head. They've developed their own agendas.

Imagine being a little girl playing with dolls, you pick up Barbie and say "Today Barbie is going shopping."

Barbie squirms out of your grasp, looks up at you, hands on her hips and says, "I don't wanna go shopping today, I'm going over to G.I.Joe's place! I want him to fuck me up the ass!" (he has a strap-on)

THAT's the kind of situation i'm in. Does this ever happen to any of you?

 

[Fairytat]

ALL THE TIME

I totally know what you are talking about.

Lately I've been writing a story that was supposed to be about one character but all of a sudden a whole family just walked into my head and demanded their place. I argued with them for days and thought I had evicted them but when I sat down to write, they popped up on the screen anway. Damn squatters.

Often when Im involved in a story, I hold conversations with my creations so that I can get to know them. They tell me their life stories, favorite color, about bad hair days, how much they hate certain relatives, their hopes, dreams, fears, etc.

In fact, sometimes they are more real to me then the people who surround me. My friends gave me a bumper sticker that reads: "You're just jealous the voices are talking to me." I truly feel that way because with them in my mind, I'm never alone.

Hmn, I sound kinda crazy.

 

[DRxBlue]

SQUATTERS!? <rotflmao>

Thanks! i didn't think it was just me. Love the bumper sticker, i use a saying i stole from "The Gods Must Be Crazy"

"Is the noise in my head bothering you?"

It's true though, when you begin to tell their stories, you grant them the keys to your head. So far i haven't had much trouble with relatives. <g>

i feel as if i owe them the time it takes to listen to their personal details. i can tell when writers DON'T. Their characters are just like puppets or worse, mannequins. If you don't let them live,they are dead, and where else can they live?

In your HEAD! dammit

i'm not really complaining, but do you suppose God has the same trouble?

 

[Monazwx]

I too know what you're going through

When I compare most of my story outlines with the conclusion, I am usually in awe. I'm like, "how did we go from here to THIS!" And I do mean we, my characters are my special friends. Just like my daydreams, all I can do is let the story and its characters flow and take its own direction.

Well-developed characters are the meat in the soup of every story. There would be hell to pay if I tried to stop 'em!

I don't just sound crazy, I know that I'm just plain 'ol nuts.
Fairytat, I love your bumper sticker! Can I use it in my signature?

 

[its Leslie]

First let me say cool thread.

Second yes I think we all start writing only to find out silly things occur.

My personal pet hell....

Damn I hate Bob (he is the dude in my on going story).

He always gets such great sex. Now he is progressively making me miserable.

I am beginning to hate the guy in my own story.

Fuck you Bob!

Now I don't know whether to add to the story or not. Maybe I such write in something nasty that happens to him?
But that won't make me feel better. Odds are the women in the story will just feel sorry for him. Then he will start getting sympathy sex too.

Damn I hate you Bob!

 

[DRxBlue]

Oh GOOD!

Thank you all SO much! i'm so glad to know that i'm not the only person with a doll house in his head.(it's kinda weird for a guy though)

its Leslie, now you've got me wondering. Maybe Lucy's doing this on purpose because she knows that i'm slated to fuck her in a couple more chapters.

Hmmmmm....that would be bad.

i don't wanna force myself on her...

WHAT AM I SAYING??!!

Things get so strange when you try to play God.
Maybe i should stick to playing Doctor.

 

[Justin_Thyme]

I, too, often find that a story intend to be short ie. They meet, shake hands, he/she says, "shall we?" He/she nods delightedly, they do it, kiss and go there separate ways.
Well, I find it just doesn't work that way. So my simple little story gets posted and I discover that I have run on to two or more Lit pages.
Most of the feedback seems to support the story development so I guess I will continue to let the loose cannon in my head roll around with minor guidance from the part of me that tries to maintain order.
I often am bewildered, amazed and always overjoyed that I have the ability to put more than two words together and have, at least one of them, make some sort of sense.
Justin

 

[Weird Harold]

These characters keep doing stuff that was NOT in the outline in my head. They've developed their own agendas.

Some of the best advice I've ver gotten about writing is, "let the words flow through your fingers until they run out. Then delete the two thirds that are complete garbage and edit the rest into a story."

Let the characters run free and then go back and edit out anything that doesn't move your plot along -- sometimes it's worth saving to use in another story even though it doesn't advance the plot of the one it popped up in.

You have to be firm with your characters when you're editing, though -- they'll cry and beg to avoid the "blue pencil." Don't let them talk you into keeping extraneous side plots in the story you're trying to tell -- unless you're writing for a soap opera and then extraneous subplots are part of the genre.

 

[DRxBlue]

Great advice Weird (can i call ya Weird?)

that's pretty much the process i've developed. The most important part being "let the words flow through your fingers until they run out".

i hate to interrupt the flow for anything. That's the problem though, the characters have been doing things i NEVER would have predicted, and i fall in love with my "creatures" so much that i LET them choose to be what they want.

Makes it hard to edit out a lot of things, i do strip it down to the point where it's as lean as possible.

It's as if they really have "free will" and that's just spooky (brrrrr)

P.S.
Coohoohoool! That was my 100th post!(i think)
thanks folks

 

[Monazwx]

100th Post Congratulations!!!

I was just wondering how you guys edit the story. When I'm done writing, it almost pains me to cut any of the words.

It's like the characters in my head have complete control sometimes. What makes it easier for you to trim your stories?

 

[Whispersecret]

I also vote for letting your characters have free reign. That's how my short story ended up being a novel.

How to cut stuff out when it's so painful? Yes, I feel that sharply! Part of me always thinks that every word I type is golden. The more rational part of me knows that, as good as I THINK I am, about 30% of what I write isn't necessary.

Here are some ways I edit my own stuff:

1. I tend to overstate things. I can't find an example right now, but I sometimes go on and on in a paragraph where the point has already been made. In these cases, I'll try to figure out which sentence makes the point better and axe the other.

2. I use longer phrases when shorter ones will do.

"I started to think about how nice it would be..."

can and SHOULD be

"I thought about how nice it would be..."

This type of thing is rampant in my writing. I know it seems like a trivial thing to focus on, but if you're talking about an entire story with unnecessary words and phrases all over the place...it can really affect the feel of the story. A well-written story uses only as many words as necessary, and no more. Tighten up your prose and it will show.

3. Sometimes I get a little too enthusiastic with my use of adjectives. If you look at your sentences and almost every noun has a modifier--you're probably overdoing it.

"The crisp, dark hair on his well-muscled chest was as thick as verdant moss that grew in the shadiest part of my vast garden."

"The crisp hair on his chest was as thick as the moss in my garden."

Less is more sometimes. Better to choose one perfect adjective than have twenty mediocre ones.

4. Adverbs are often a problem too. Far better to choose some kick-ass verbs than rely on tired adverbs.

"He pulled her to him roughly and she cried softly."

"He yanked her into his arms and she whimpered."

You get more bang from your buck if you choose your verbs with care. One trick I use is to use the FIND feature and look for "ly." Then, one at a time I see if there's a better way to describe things without the adverb. Usually I can improve it. Sometimes I can't. I make the decision one "ly" at a time.

Hope this helps.

 

[wildsweetone]

my thoughts

i've been learning to write 300 word stories. finally i'm seeing a little success with them.

one thing that was a nice shock...

i wrote a story about 700 words long, the one about the neighbour on the 300 or less thread... i saved it in word. then i copied and pasted it into a new document and had a go at cutting back.

the result shocked me. it became a complete story in itself. so i have two. one at 300 and one at 700+. i'm not unhappy with the short version either. it gets across what i want it to.


although initially scary, it's turned out an interesting experience.
i'm glad i tried it.

years ago i had the same experience as you people, characters running around in my head, driving me nutty. i found the only way i could shut them up was to get pen onto paper and write what they were telling me to write. peace would eventually come. it didn't matter what the words turned out like, just that they were written down.

sorry, i'm in waffling mode again.

 

[its Leslie]

One danger is "wordiness"

If its his cock you are talking about, sometimes calling it his love phallus just looks silly.

If she is wet, sometimes saying she is wet is ok. She doesnt have to be dripping passion dew.

My only concern when I write (with my spell checker looking over my shoulder), is am I using proper punctuation.

 

[Weird Harold]

I was just wondering how you guys edit the story. When I'm done writing, it almost pains me to cut any of the words.

I never edit anything for at least a week after I finish the first draft.

I usually change fonts and/or font size before editing so that it looks like someone else wrote it.

 

[DRxBlue]

Hoo HOO! i've struck GOLD!

Thank you Whispersecret for joining this thread. You are the one i had in mind when i started it.

The result of your wild characters running free was incredible!(check out "Hostile Takeover" from her library)

i'm afraid i told you that too many times in my feedback. (Sorry, i don't usually drink coffee, let alone a whole pot in one night.)

Weird Harold's point about pruning subplots has worked well. Funny, but characters DO whine and even get sullen sometimes when you draw the blue pencil line.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Being ruthless with phrases helps a lot. But i'm not as worried about word counts as i am about the overabundance of action.

i'll want to pass over a couple of days in "story time" with one paragraph, but Lucy and Kevin start to yell, "Wait! Wait! You HAVE to tell about that time on the swing! That was IMPORTANT!"

So i "let the loose cannons roll" and damned if they aren't usually right. i never realized what randy little fuckers these two were.

Hence what should have been one paragraph becomes half a page.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i've GOTTA try that "Find" feature trick! i can think of a few applications already. i do worry about repeating myself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The 300 word story challenge is another thing i must try. i will, as soon as this chapter is done. This time i'm SURE that Phase One of this story will be finished. <CF&T>*

i'm taking all of this to the memory bank, maybe it'll collect some interest.

Thanks All!(and thanks for helping me earn my avatar)

*<Crossing Fingers & Toes>

 

[Monazwx]

Thanks for the tips

The editing advice is wonderful. I'll to sure to take it into account now that I have finished the first draft of one of my stories. Cutting characters can be tough, but I'll surivive and so will the story!

By the way, loved "Hostile Takeover" Whispersecret. I didn't think I would at first, but by the ebd of the second chapter, I was hooked. Awesome!

(Also, "Choosing the right words" was very helpful. You're so good at this!)

 

[Route66Girl]

I grok

Just about everything discussed on this thread is something I'm dealing with in the story I'm writing. I started posting here a few weeks ago, looking for advice and whatnot before I put up a 16 page story I was getting ready to do a final edit on. It's my first erotic story. It's my first real work of fiction, period.

But after having worked the final draft, I got a really good critique via email, and have been lost in rewrites ever since. These characters have completely taken over. It's up to 35 Word pages now, and keeps going. The characters have so much to do and say. And new ones keep fighting for a place in the plot.

Unfortunately, it keeps wandering away from the erotic. My characters just don't wanna do it! It started out as an erotic tale with romantic overtones, and now it's just the opposite.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's turning into a novel, and whether it'll ever make it up on Lit at all.

Weird Harold- ACK! I see the logic in your editing advice, but I'm having a hard time letting go and writing without checking everything every couple paragraphs.

Whispersecret- I also really liked "Hostile Takeover." I have a similar problem sometimes in getting too verbose. I'm in the process of learning how to recognize and slash useless phrases.

 

[DRxBlue]

Good luck Route66Girl...

Irony -- you can't get your characters to "do it".
i can't get mine to stop!

Good thing Real Life isn't so complicated

Blue

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: I grok

Weird Harold- ACK! I see the logic in your editing advice, but I'm having a hard time letting go and writing without checking everything every couple paragraphs.

I think you'll find that just letting the story flow without checking everthing every few paragraphs is actually prettyeasy once you get used to it.


I do find myself going back and checking for story continuity things, just to make sure I'm being consistent and/or have covered something before. I just don't do much editing as I write the first draft -- editing is much asier when you've had time to step back and "forget" what you meant to type and can see what you actually typed.

There is nothing to say that you can't edit things during the first draft and then go back and do a "cold edit" after it's had time to sit for a bit too.

 

[Whispersecret]

Hey, Blue, Mona, Route66girl, thanks so much. My head is now the size of a VW bug. LOL

Back to the subject.

Blue, characters may want additional scenes, but be sure they're needed. If you're writing a Story with a capital S, and not just a description of a sexual event, you will want to make sure that each and every scene moves your plot forward.

Because you're familiar with H.T., I'll give you examples from that. Here are the sex scenes as I recall them:

Rockwell takes Fiona against her will--obviously that had to take place. That sets the stage for the story.

Father jerks off while listening--that sets up father's incestuous leanings.

Rockwell takes Fiona in the shower. This time he's angry--this reinforces Rockwell's dominant personality, yet shows that he's beginning to soften toward her.

Rockwell gives Fiona to the two frat boys at the rock--this shows Rockwell having more second thoughts about his original purpose with Fiona. I needed to have him with self-doubt more than once, because he's not going to make an instantaneous change.

Fiona masturbates in her bedroom--this is where she realizes that Rockwell turns her on and she comes to terms with that.

Fiona fucks the two guys after the ambush--this shows Fiona trying to rescue herself, gives Rockwell a chance to rescue her, creates some danger and excitement.

Fiona teases Rockwell during their picnic, trying to get him interested again-- this shows that Rockwell has changed in that he wants more than sex now. Hopefully it also shows the reader that they're in love but don't know it themselves yet.

Father jerks off in the shower--shows just how low father has sunk, that he continues to have sexual feelings for his own daughter.

Father tries to rape Fiona--this is the climax of the whole story. Every story must have a climax, a point where the reader is worried about the outcome.

Rockwell and Fiona make love at the end--Here is the moment when the realization of their love is mutual and hopefully the reader experiences what love can add to the act of sex.

So, as you can see, every sex scene had a purpose in the plot. I didn't throw them in just for kicks. Then again, I was writing a novel and the story had to move along, but even if you're writing something shorter, the sex should (in my opinion) still further your plot. Perhaps the sex is a breakthrough for the character, teaches them something about themselves, etc.

One last word of caution along the same lines. Beware of your story just becoming a series of events that have no ending. Novels have endings. The ending is the payoff for reading everything preceding it. The story builds up and finally comes to a head during the climax. After that, all remaining loose ends are tied up and the story is done. You should have some vague idea how things are going to end up when you're done. That way your story doesn't wander all over the place.

Hope this helps.

 

[Axeltheswede]

Characters get away

As always, Whisper is spot on with great information and advice. I believe I can speak for many of us and say thank you.

One of the neat things about Literotica is the way we can do ongoing stories, a chapter at a time. If you find yourself with some interesting characters and some direction, you can go for it.
Before you stop and realize, you have written a novel. That is the best way to experience the fact that even "War and Peace" was written one word, sentence, graph, chapter at a time.

An additional benefit of Lit. We can get feedback with every step of the process.

 

[DRxBlue]

Thanks Whispersecret That's EXACTLY what i needed!

Perfect! Much of this i've already learned (thank God) from necessity.

Perhaps the main reason i started the thread was my fear that i was going NUTS! That fear has been allayed greatly. It's just an "occupational hazard" then?

It rapidly became obvious that i couldn't include all the details my characters seemed to want, for exactly the reasons you point out. i couldn't help but listen to their stories, if for no other reason than i'm such a greedy voyeur.

The timing of your advice is very apropos, as i'm about to tackle the "climax". (in the literary sense) This will help me focus on the pace of events.

Actually the tendency of my story to "bloat" is something i appreciate. It sure beats having a story with too little to say, and trying to add "filler".

It also gives me a chance to practice "pruning", which seems to be mandatory skill.

Thanks, Teacher i'll bet you could teach for a living!<jk>

Blue

 

[Whispersecret]

Re: Characters get away

As always, Whisper is spot on with great information and advice. I believe I can speak for many of us and say thank you.

One of the neat things about Literotica is the way we can do ongoing stories, a chapter at a time. If you find yourself with some interesting characters and some direction, you can go for it.
Before you stop and realize, you have written a novel. That is the best way to experience the fact that even "War and Peace" was written one word, sentence, graph, chapter at a time.

An additional benefit of Lit. We can get feedback with every step of the process.

You're welcome, Axel. You're a sweetie.

I will never post a novel a chapter at a time as I write it for a few reasons.

1. I don't have a perfect track record. I have two novels and several stories unfinished. I will not be one of those people who posts the beginning of a story and never finishes it.

2. I'm too much of a perfectionist. In the course of writing something so long, I polish and repolish and cut out and add almost constantly to the entire thing. When Rockwell started to care for Fiona, round about the shower scene, I saw that I should go back and be more gradual in his dawning realization about his feelings. I went back to the rock scene and changed it all around. Instead of enjoying watching her do as he said, he got angry and jealous. That's the advantage of keeping your chapters close to your vest until you're all done futzing with it.

3. It makes the readers wait too long. I HATE waiting for second and third books of a trilogy! And I'm a very slow writer. Besides, I got tons of mail thanking me profusely for being so timely about posting the chapters. (I submitted the whole thing to Laurel and she posted it one chapter per night.)

 

[Axeltheswede]

Characters get away

You make some valid points, Whisper. I respect your personal convictions and style.

In response to the three areas of concern listed above;
1. I think posting half without a finish would be very poorly
received by readers following the story. There is a certain
responsibility when you start a novel, to finish it.
2. Perfectionist attitudes haunt a lot of us. The benefit of
posting a chapter at a time is that you have to stop
tinkering with it. I do the same thing. I have edited a story
to death a few times. Some great writer said something
like: I don't finish a novel, I abandon it. I can relate to that.
3. Readers wait too long. I have been posting a new chapter
every ten days to two weeks for two ongoing projects. I
don't think that is too much waiting.

Actually, what I may be doing is writing a multi-part story rather than a coherent novel. I found some interesting characters and want to keep playing with them. The original question on this thread was what to do with a story that gets away from you. I still think one solution is to go with it and divide it into chapters.

 

[MysteryWriter]

I kill them off

From the dark alley a shot rang out... snoopy