What are the legitimate roles of the Federal Government?

[Ishmael]

Take a shot.

Ishmael

 

[koalabear]

To protect everyone from themselves.

 

[great lover]

Protect the poor from the rich and the rich from the poor, and to keep taking money from everybody.

 

[SailorJerry]

Take a shot.

Ishmael

Just off of the top of my head. (And keep in mind that I'm a Canadian, so things may be different for you)

Roles of Federal Government:
- national defense
- administration of the banking reserve, and defining banking rules and regulations, printing currency
- foreign policy and diplomacy
- Criminal Laws
- Weights and measures, patents, intellectual property rights
- Fisheries and Oceans
- First Nations Land issues
- National Police force
- Ports and Harbours
- Customs (Border Police)
- federal parks & maintenance
- Coast Guard, Lighthouses, and Marine safety
- and finally taxation to provide the above

In Canada (maybe not in the USA), there is little or NO OVERLAP in jurisdiction between levels of government. This is because all the power is handed down from top to bottom (similar to a military hierarchy).

To go a bit further, here is my understanding of the roles of the other levels of government.

Roles of Provincial Government:
- Healthcare and Hospitals
- Highways & maintenance
- Education and Schools
- Agriculture, and Forests
- Provincial Parks & maintenance
- and finally taxation to provide the above

Roles of Regional/Municipal Government:
- Local Roads & Maintenance
- Community Planning/Land Use/Zoning
- Garbage Collection and Recycling
- Docks
- Water and Sewer utilities
- Public libraries and recreation facilities
- local parks & maintenance
- and finally taxation to provide the above

 

[unregistered]

 

[JohnnySavage]

They're enumerated in the Constitution.

Article I Section 8

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;



What's 'general welfare' mean?

 

[phrodeau]

Take a shot.

Ishmael

Fine, that's one.

Please list another.

 

[koalabear]

Article I Section 8

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;



What's 'general welfare' mean?

and why are taxes collected by a private firm?

 

[garbage can]

Take a shot.

Ishmael

Protection of our borders, and interstate commerce.

Everything else belongs to the states.

 

[Karen Kraft]

Take a shot.

Ishmael

1. Provide common / national identity with sufficient solidity to encourage patriotic participation in potentially personally destructive adventures (read: war);

2. Provide common defense against collective enemies, foreign and domestic;

3. Exclusively print national currency.

The end.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Article I Section 8

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

What's 'general welfare' mean?

Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power "to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States," amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction. Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases. A power to destroy the freedom of the press, the trial by jury, or even to regulate the course of descents, or the forms of conveyances, must be very singularly expressed by the terms "to raise money for the general welfare."

But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon? If the different parts of the same instrument ought to be so expounded, as to give meaning to every part which will bear it, shall one part of the same sentence be excluded altogether from a share in the meaning; and shall the more doubtful and indefinite terms be retained in their full extent, and the clear and precise expressions be denied any signification whatsoever? For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power? Nothing is more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars.

The Federalist No. 41, James Madison

 

[Karen Kraft]

UH- oh! Here comes the name caller.

Unread Today, 08:58 PM
Remove user from ignore list
Byron In Exile
This message is hidden because Byron In Exile is on your ignore list.

Yawn.

Go away, name-calling troll.

 

[Ishmael]

1. Provide common / national identity with sufficient solidity to encourage patriotic participation in potentially personally destructive adventures (read: war);

2. Provide common defense against collective enemies, foreign and domestic;

3. Exclusively print national currency.

The end.

The specific phrase is;

"To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;"

Which says nothing about the printing of valueless paper. There is a profound difference between the printing of what amounts to an IOU and that of coin which has intrinsic value with or without government backing.

Our 'money' has become a joke.

Ishmael

 

[SailorJerry]

It's no wonder that my country is doing so well in comparison.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Unread Today, 08:58 PM
Remove user from ignore list
Byron In Exile
This message is hidden because Byron In Exile is on your ignore list.

Yawn.

Go away, name-calling troll.

^ Oh noes! I'm on "pseudo-ignore!"

 

[Ishmael]

It's no wonder that my country is doing so well in comparison.

Your nation is exploiting it's natural resources to fund your misguided health programs. Those resources will eventually run out and you'll be right back to trying to figure out how to pay for the excesses of your legislation.

We, on the other hand, seem to think we can pay for all the shit you can't pay for by not exploiting our resources.

In the short term you are acting in a wiser way. Perhaps, in the long term, and only perhaps, our self-denial may work out. I'm not entirely certain that that is the case.

Ishmael

 

[SailorJerry]

Actually my point was that we are doing better because we limit the power and roles of our levels of government, do not have jurisdictional overlap, and employ regulations which are conservative.

Why do you think our health care programs are misguided ?

 

[unregistered]

 

[SailorJerry]

And I've just broken my own policy by discussing politics on a site which is supposed to be about LITERATURE and EROTICA. LOL. Oh well. I won't make that mistake again.

 

[islandman]

The specific phrase is;

"To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;"

Which says nothing about the printing of valueless paper. There is a profound difference between the printing of what amounts to an IOU and that of coin which has intrinsic value with or without government backing.

Our 'money' has become a joke.

Ishmael

Would you like to guess as to how much gold or silver would be required to provide a population of 300M+ with sufficient liquidity so as to support an economy commensurate with that population?

 

[Karen Kraft]

The specific phrase is;

"To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;"

Which says nothing about the printing of valueless paper. There is a profound difference between the printing of what amounts to an IOU and that of coin which has intrinsic value with or without government backing.

Our 'money' has become a joke.

Ishmael

Coins are heavy.
Paper is pretty.

* shrug *

 

[eyer]

What's 'general welfare' mean?

More Madison:

With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.

And...

...What about that 2nd Amendment deal re: right to bear arms and militia?

Well...

...glad you asked; here's Jimmy again:

The highest number to which a standing army can be carried in any country does not exceed one hundredth part of the souls, or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This portion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. ... Besides the advantage of being armed, ... the existence of subordinate governments ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. ... [The governments of Europe] are afraid to trust the people with arms. ... Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors.

 

[Ishmael]

Actually my point was that we are doing better because we limit the power and roles of our levels of government, do not have jurisdictional overlap, and employ regulations which are conservative.

Why do you think our health care programs are misguided ?

No you don't.

I don't think, I know. Your fertility rate is 1.58 children/female. You are a dying nation. That demographic tells anyone with half a brain the fewer taxpayers will be paying for more services. The fact that your past politicos never took into consideration today's facts belies your first statement. Any political organization that has in it's hands the provision of health care has in it's hands the power of life or death and 'due process' be damned. Your ultimate destination is a version of "Logan's Run."

Ishmael

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power "to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States," amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction. Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases. A power to destroy the freedom of the press, the trial by jury, or even to regulate the course of descents, or the forms of conveyances, must be very singularly expressed by the terms "to raise money for the general welfare."

But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon? If the different parts of the same instrument ought to be so expounded, as to give meaning to every part which will bear it, shall one part of the same sentence be excluded altogether from a share in the meaning; and shall the more doubtful and indefinite terms be retained in their full extent, and the clear and precise expressions be denied any signification whatsoever? For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power? Nothing is more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars.

The Federalist No. 41, James Madison

Excellent post!

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

Regardless of the FEdS mandate it seems they do what they want