What am I doing, damnit?

[BlackShanglan]

This is a thread for people who participated in the Voice Guessing Thread.

I have a serious question, and can take the answers like a horse.

What is it that makes my entries so transparently obvious?

All right, all right, I knew the first one was obvious because of the setting and nature of the characters. But I thought the second reasonably different in content. So evidently it really is something in style. Or is it?

These are the questions going through the horsey mind:

(1) Is it really style, or was it timing, or something odd about the choice of content, or just that the first person's card had me for that number?

(2) If it's style, what the heck is it about it that gave it away so obviously?

(3) Is it something I need to work to change, or something that's good? (This is, of course, the issue that is most tormenting me.)

Naturally, these are rather self-obsessive questions and I quite understand that they may be met with utter disinterest. But ... well, frankly, I'm worried that this is a sign either that my writing has major characteristic flaws or that my style is too predominant and not flexible enough - a sort of caricature thing.

I'm willing to take a bullet - several - to get the answers. I want to write better. Any aid in reaching that goal is deeply appreciated.

Shanglan

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Considering all your work has H's and you have 3 E's, I don't think you have to be worried about flaws.

Yes, I'm jealous.

 

[velvetpie]

Shang, honey,

Have a glass of wine, put your feet up and watch the sun go down. You're working much too hard!

Cheers!
Velvet

 

[minsue]

I haven't read the entries yet so I'll have to get back to you, S, but I'm confused about something:

You want to know how to stop writing like yourself in order to become a better writer?!?

 

[The_Fool]

The thing is, you have a voice and you use it. You are offering consistency. If you really want to change your voice then you probably need to change what you read. Or read more of something that is polar to what you write. But why change? Unless you are just wanting to try something different.

 

[CharleyH]

This is a thread for people who participated in the Voice Guessing Thread.

I have a serious question, and can take the answers like a horse.

What is it that makes my entries so transparently obvious?

All right, all right, I knew the first one was obvious because of the setting and nature of the characters. But I thought the second reasonably different in content. So evidently it really is something in style. Or is it?

These are the questions going through the horsey mind:

(1) Is it really style, or was it timing, or something odd about the choice of content, or just that the first person's card had me for that number?

(2) If it's style, what the heck is it about it that gave it away so obviously?

(3) Is it something I need to work to change, or something that's good? (This is, of course, the issue that is most tormenting me.)

Naturally, these are rather self-obsessive questions and I quite understand that they may be met with utter disinterest. But ... well, frankly, I'm worried that this is a sign either that my writing has major characteristic flaws or that my style is too predominant and not flexible enough - a sort of caricature thing.

I'm willing to take a bullet - several - to get the answers. I want to write better. Any aid in reaching that goal is deeply appreciated.

Shanglan

I have not guessed yet, nor have I looked. However, is it transparency? Or voice as the original spin indicated? Is it not WILD, that you have your own voice, style? THAT is what sets you apart from everything mediocre.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Shanglan, your style is unmistakable. In this particular case, though, it was a no brainer on technical issues alone. PM me if you want to know.

 

[BlackShanglan]

You want to know how to stop writing like yourself in order to become a better writer?!?

To answer you and the Fool - whose comment on reading material is of course thoroughly accurate and prescient, which is hardly unexpected considering the source -

My concern is twofold. First, that what's standing out is something bad: poor diction, convoluted structure, awkward word choices, excessively overwritten prose. If those are the characteristics of my style, then yes - I want to change it.

My other concern is flexibility. I want to make sure that my voice fits the narrative and the circumstances. I don't mind having some sort of baseline "style," but I don't want to apply the same exact "feel" to every work regardless of its nature. I want to make sure that I am properly shaping the language as well as the plot of each story.

Hence my excessive fretting. I think I really had better go have a glass of port.

Shanglan

 

[minsue]

OK, I've read the entries. It wasn't quite as obvious as the last, but your work is still easy to spot. I just cannot for the life of me see that as a bad thing.

If nothing else, Horsey, the names you give your characters give you away. I didn't have to do more than glance to know it was you.

 

[minsue]

To answer you and the Fool - whose comment on reading material is of course thoroughly accurate and prescient, which is hardly unexpected considering the source -

My concern is twofold. First, that what's standing out is something bad: poor diction, convoluted structure, awkward word choices, excessively overwritten prose. If those are the characteristics of my style, then yes - I want to change it.

Really, Shanglan, purge those concerns from your mind. You've got the Hs and Es to prove to yourself (and only yourself, no one else questions this at all ) that it's simply not the case.

My other concern is flexibility. I want to make sure that my voice fits the narrative and the circumstances. I don't mind having some sort of baseline "style," but I don't want to apply the same exact "feel" to every work regardless of its nature. I want to make sure that I am properly shaping the language as well as the plot of each story.

Your concern about flexibility shocks me almost as much as your concern about quality. I don't know where to begin....see my answer to concern one. That's as good a place to start as any.

Hence my excessive fretting. I think I really had better go have a glass of port.

Shanglan

Come on in to Abs. I'll buy you a glass.

 

[carsonshepherd]

I haven't been participating in the voice challenges, but I will offer you this, S:

I would know your writing anywhere. It is not just your word choice, although that's a big part of it. Having read so much of your work, both edited and unedited, I probably know it better than most. You have a unique way of expressing ideas. Your development is subtle but strong. This is one of your strengths. You also have weaknesses that are pretty consistent too... mostly apparent in earlier drafts. You and I have discussed them so I won't go into that.

My concern is twofold. First, that what's standing out is something bad: poor diction, convoluted structure, awkward word choices, excessively overwritten prose. If those are the characteristics of my style, then yes - I want to change it.

Your diction is complex. That's not a bad thing. Your structure and what you call "overwritten" (and I call style) has consistently improved since I first started reading your drafts. Word choices are unique - a good thing! Would anyone else dare to use the word "inchoate?"

My other concern is flexibility. I want to make sure that my voice fits the narrative and the circumstances. I don't mind having some sort of baseline "style," but I don't want to apply the same exact "feel" to every work regardless of its nature. I want to make sure that I am properly shaping the language as well as the plot of each story.

You've made huge progress in this area. I've read other works of yours that I almost wouldn't have recognized without the telltale structure/word choice signature.

This is the way I see it: Your voice is strong. It gets better and better. The way you express ideas is unmistakable and always impresses me. I love your super brain!

Flaws: yeah, you've got 'em. But who doesn't? And your strength is knowing what they are. I know when I see a draft of yours, you'll get everything worked out by the end!

 

[CharleyH]

If you do not mind my forthright words, and you did ask publically, so ... You are well- researched, precise and formal in your language, which work very well in genres you enjoy . . . when moving to current, you are uncomfortable, it seems on appearance, with current language of pop culture and with symbols post-modern. What you do, when you write in current, is inject the past, which sets you apart. Now I need to read it again, but I know which one is yours

 

[carsonshepherd]

If you do not mind my forthright words, and you did ask publically, so ... You are well- researched, precise and formal in your language, which work very well in genres you enjoy . . . when moving to current, you are uncomfortable, it seems on appearance, with current language of pop culture and with symbols post-modern. What you do, when you write in current, is inject the past, which sets you apart. Now I need to read it again, but I know which one is yours

Charley makes dead-on points... although I don't think you're uncomfortable with modern symbols or current language. I've seen you pull it off with aplomb.

 

[CharleyH]

Charley makes dead-on points... although I don't think you're uncomfortable with modern symbols or current language. I've seen you pull it off with aplomb.

Shang is very knowledgible(sp) about semiotics - not what I meant to imply. However, he does NOT in his writing do the pop/slang thing, (from what I have read, and appreciated). He seems reluctant and unsure of the informal world of slang, therefore reverting to what he knows and loves, in even a 700 word blurb. I know he is knowledgeable as a person, but writing and RL are a dichotmy for some, and I do believe the way, and the what that Shang wants to write are at odds. SHANG! READ BRET EASTON ELLIS!

Carson, you have ultimately read more of Shangs work than I, but in the post modern, there is an ease and informality that, (having read his entry) he seems uncomfortable with from MY view only . . . I would like to see Shang write a totally base and raw passage using FUCK- CUNT - etc, but I rarely use the words myself, so I can't expect him too.

Hm, raises questions in writing though.

 

[carsonshepherd]

SHANG! READ BRET EASTON ELLIS!

He's got his place. But so do other styles... Room enough for all, right?

 

[CharleyH]

He's got his place. But so do other styles... Room enough for all, right?

Always, but when it comes to pop culture, he has a corner all his own. STYLE, which is our purpose here.



Who do you suggest, pop culture wise? So I can read.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Thanks, Carson and Charley. I think Charley quite right. I know it myself. I have immense difficulty writing everyday modern conversation. I envy Carson's ability there. It's odd ... I don't feel that I myself speak formally, but my writing inevitably reverts. In my list of projects taped to my white board, there are only three that call for modern setting and diction: two poems, and therefore not much on dialgoue, and one collection of short stories that would be voiced as "me."

I'm not sure what to do about it. I know that I avoid it partly because I feel that I will do it badly, and partly because I dislike some it is ... I suppose I enjoy the richness and beauty of older diction. I find it very hard to be beautiful in contemporary English. Even Rushdie slips back to an older feel for much of his work.

It's worth some effort, though. Perhaps a few exercises. Even if I don't want to do it as a regular thing, I want to know that I can.

Thanks very much for the thought and input. I appreciate your perception, both of you.

Shanglan

 

[BlackShanglan]

Hmmm. Seperate question. Would it be fair to use the next Voice Guessing Thread (one hopes that there will be one) as a chance to try a piece with a deliberately different style?

S

 

[cantdog]

What would be the point?

 

[CharleyH]

Thanks, Carson and Charley. I think Charley quite right. I know it myself. I have immense difficulty writing everyday modern conversation. I envy Carson's ability there. It's odd ... I don't feel that I myself speak formally, but my writing inevitably reverts. In my list of projects taped to my white board, there are only three that call for modern setting and diction: two poems, and therefore not much on dialgoue, and one collection of short stories that would be voiced as "me."

I'm not sure what to do about it. I know that I avoid it partly because I feel that I will do it badly, and partly because I dislike some it is ... I suppose I enjoy the richness and beauty of older diction. I find it very hard to be beautiful in contemporary English. Even Rushdie slips back to an older feel for much of his work.

It's worth some effort, though. Perhaps a few exercises. Even if I don't want to do it as a regular thing, I want to know that I can.

Thanks very much for the thought and input. I appreciate your perception, both of you.

Shanglan

You can still do it (unless Carson gives me something here) GLAMORAMA, by Ellis, the most beautiful and irritating pop culture ref book you will find . TOTALLY, the way people talk and are in THAT culture, the way they are (been there) but there are so many sub-cultures, sub references, sub-slangs.

EDIT: where do you want to write from, and maybe we can help?

 

[carsonshepherd]

I have immense difficulty writing everyday modern conversation. I envy Carson's ability there. It's odd ... I don't feel that I myself speak formally, but my writing inevitably reverts.

But I cannot do what you do. I feel vaguely panicky every time I depart from my "everyday modern" style and voice (i.e. my current project!) I have always admired your big, horsey balls in writing with your own, perfect, formal, brilliant style! You know how I feel about style - that it should not intrude on the work. That's what I try to do, make my own voice disappear into the story. It's just another way to do it, no?



Edit: I want to clarify this statement: You know how I feel about style - that it should not intrude on the work. In that I mean only my OWN style. Not anyone else's. I don't place that judgement on what or how other people write, only my own work.

 

[cantdog]

I would be proud if people knew my way of expressing myself well enough to feel it.

Who are you if not you? Would they have read enough of your work to know you if they felt uncomfortable listening to your voice?

 

[carsonshepherd]

You can still do it (unless Carson gives me something here) GLAMORAMA, by Ellis, the most beautiful and irritating pop culture ref book you will find . TOTALLY, the way people talk and are in THAT culture, the way they are (been there) but there are so many sub-cultures, sub references, sub-slangs.

EDIT: where do you want to write from, and maybe we can help?

I admire the post modern but don't feel informed enough to offer anything to you - I love the feel of it, but find it a little unsatisfying really.

 

[CharleyH]

Hmmm. Seperate question. Would it be fair to use the next Voice Guessing Thread (one hopes that there will be one) as a chance to try a piece with a deliberately different style?

S

If elected I will ensure everyone diversifies (sp) style Elect me

 

[CharleyH]

I admire the post modern but don't feel informed enough to offer anything to you - I love the feel of it, but find it a little unsatisfying really.

Yet, you live in it every day