"What a tear stained shock of the world....."

[Rachel Picabia]

I think I should be able to 'fit you in' in September, Nicole. Heh-heh! I'll pencil it in my diary.

NOW, LISTEN EVERY BODY. ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO'VE POPPED IN FROM THE 1,000 PAGE LONG ASS BARTERING STRAND - it's been lovely having you round to visit but please leave now. We're trying to discuss dead brainy stuff and shit like that, and the site of Golden parading up and down in that little red g-string is rather distracting.

SLUT BOY & GUS - I DEMAND THAT YOU READ MY LONG RANT AROUND 15 POSTS AGO and respond immediately.

AND IF I HEAR OF ANY BARTERING GOING ON BEHIND MY BACK, I'LL HAVE TO SPANK THE LOT OF YOU.

 

[Slut_boy]

Rachel,

Please accept my apologies for not responding to your post - its just that you posted immediately thereafter telling me that the post was meant for Gus and not directed at me. So I kinda thought that the second post had let me off the hook - the awkward hook at that *laughs*

No, I have nothing against all Muslims. You must distinguish between somebody saying that they are opposed to Islam, from that same person saying that they are opposed to Muslims. In other words, its not the people but the institution that I despise (although I must say that I despise most institutions including organised religion like Christianity). But the point being made in my posting seems to have gone unnoticed - it was not about my fear of Islamic Fundamentalism, but rather about the importance of tolerance. And if you see that as the purpose of my post, then you will understand that eventhough I am opposed to Islam and other such institutions, I am trying my best to at least be tolerant of it.

Does that clear things up. Now then, Rach, what was all that about your ass *wink*

 

[Rachel Picabia]

Good points, boys.

I'm being tough on myself and forcing myself to stick to two short, simple paragraphs for this rant.

The interesting thing about rants is.....

Ah, Shit! I was doing so well

 

[Gus]

When the thread was hi-jacked I thought that it was time to call it a day. Since you ask so nicely I thought that I'd belatedly reply but my initial thrust was at S-B who didn't answer!!

I had read your list of ‘Just because…’ and it reminded me of the old ‘Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean that they are not after you.’ Simplistic phrases are not solutions or even explanations. I know people from many lands and as individuals they can very well be the nicest people. It is the tribal mentality that causes all the problems. Having said that, all you good people full of tolerance are wrong!! It is your tolerance that allows the growth of the controllers, dictators etc. This happens in politics as well as religion and having got round to religion some of them are positively evil.

Look to where Islam is in control. Do you want to go there? Not for a holiday but to convert. You’d not be so full of opinion then. It wouldn’t be tolorated.

Did you hear about the recent story where in Pakistan a couple of brothers killed the local shoemaker. To cover the crime they then killed the third brother’s wife – because the two had been having an affair was their story. Then it came out that the affair story was untrue. The girls mother tried to have the murderers taken to court but the third brother forgave the other brothers (because the religion goes heavy on forgiveness) so the brothers didn’t go to court. Mother wasn’t too pleased but then it was only a women that was killed, and doing that is alright.

Maybe I listen to too many of these whinging islamic women going on about equality. Maybe it is a nice little religion underneath. Is that the one where it is a noble thing to kill an unbeliever? Is it the one where they declare a holy war when someone upsets them. Perhaps they should be tolerated after all.

There are no gods, never were. Man created god in his own image. Religion is a means of control. Always has been – see Moses etc.

 

[Gus]

THE WORLD IS GETTING TOLORENT???

Isreal? The former Jugosalave Republic in its many hatefull states? Africa in its many hatefull states? Middle East? Far East? The Indian Sub Continent? Tibet? Timor? Malaya? etc. etc.

 

[Nobody Special]

geee another Discusion an RELIGION, If you want my points on this please goto the thread Called the "Pope and Catholic Appology" I think that is what it is. I think I explained my points rather well there.

Any way lets all just try to tolorate each other.

And Nicole, what would happen If I bid and bought you in the auction and forbid you to have contact with Golden, and Ravenloft, and Havocman, and Dickfer? Just a question, that is all, but possible.

 

[Rachel Picabia]

Gus. I'm not Islamic. I've got no interest in becoming a Moslem. I don't like the fact that some Moslems cut off their daughters' clitorises in the name of religion. I think a lot of terrible things happen in certain Moslem countries. I do whinge a bit now and again, though. Women can be a bit like that, bless 'em.

Your jibes at religions and gods doesn't mean anything to me. I don't believe in a god or goddess or satan or any of that stuff. I don't believe in any particular religion. I'm sort of interested in some eastern religions like Taoism and Buddhism, 'cause they don't spend all their time trying to come up with some story that explains where the universe came from. They don't try to convert everybody else in the world to their religion. And they don't have a god at the top of the heirarchy that must be obeyed without question (there is no god in Buddhism or Taoism - just some wise doods who came up with some interesting suggestions about how to live your life - philosophy more than religion).

I just get pissed off with the number of fuck-face tabloid-reading arseholes I meet on a daily basis that see the whole World in black and white and dismiss a whole race and their religious beliefs completely out of hand without knowing all the facts.

I don't tolerate Islamic fundamentalism. Doesn't mean I'm going to slag off the whole of Islam - a religion that's been around since about the 5th Century and is worshipped by people in many different countries throughout the World - including your green and pleasant land.

The nazis were interested in Nietzche's ideas about man and superman etc. I've dabbled in a couple of books about him - seems quite interesting. I'm willing to accept that there might be some valid points in his books. I'm tolerant of them, if that's how you want to word it. If I was standing at the Neurenberg rallies, though, I'd still be able to see that there was something a bit fucking wrong going on. You know, I have spotted that there are some dickheads running certain countries in the middle east. Do you think cause I don't want to lay into every Moslem in the World with a pair of Union Jack DMs that that means I can't spot a Fascist dictator when I see one?

I'm not a Moslem myself. But I think it's better for some people to have a religion that helps them make sense of the world than having no religion at all. Doesn't matter how silly I think the philosophies behind Hare Krishna, Christianity or Islam are. These religions are giving some people meaning in their life. It's helping them maintain some level of mental health (no matter how minimal). Maybe without any religion whatsoever these people would be living in complete anarchy and chaos.

Now, lick my boots, you sniveling wretch or I'll thrash your back till your skin flays off!

your dear dear friend,
Mistress Rachel

 

[Gil]

Slut_boy,

You are right and I am wrong! Consider it retracted and please accept my apologies.

Oh, and yes...I still respect you.

Gus,

Yes, you're entitled to your opinion and I am sorry for my inappropriate remarks to you. Still don't agree with you

Damn this humble pie tastes terrible...must be crow in it.

 

[Gus]

Evidently my sarcasm missed the mark. The whinging females I was referring to were the poor buggers that were suffering from these religious regimes. The people who know! My sympathy is with them.

Religion does not allow people to make sense of the world it commands that they obey: see what they are told to see. It is the same rabble rousing as the nazis or even the lefty anti nazis.

Why do you assume that without religion the world would be in a worse mess? Evidently you do not think that something more valid would not have emerged in its place.

What is a fuck face? Why arn't the tabloid readers views valid or even tolerated?

I'm a very simple man and I see things more clearly in black and white but get that sorted and the greys don't cause anything like the trouble that they currently do.

Oh! befor I sign off, I don't make jibes at religions or gods. It was a statement of fact: islam is evil and there are no gods etc.

 

[Gil]

Gus,

Come on, have you ever talked with someone of the Islamic faith? Do you know anything about the Prophet Mohammed? Do you even know what the Koran is?

These whining women, as you put it, were born into a CULTURE, which incidentally includes religion, neither of which, you obviously know anything about.

'Freedom of speech', is one thing. The complete ignorance you espouse, is another. Get educated...or shut the fuck up!

 

[Slut_boy]

As a human rights lawyer, I was very actively involved in a campaign which we ultimately took to the Constitutional Court - and I was co-counsel in the matter which successfully obtained an order declaring the gender discriminatory aspects of certain Customary Laws (customs founded on a mixture of religion and ethnicity) to be unconstitutional - the same arguments could quite conceivably be levelled against Islam. And I in fact have no doubt that if I get briefed (by a Muslim wife who feels oppressed ) to test the Muslim marraige traditions against the Bill of Rights then the result will be the same.

So the "whinging women" of which Gus speaks are the products of prejudice - a species of prejudice which has undoubtably been transformed into discrimination. And in this case I am not convinced that the freedom of religion outways the gross human rights violation inflicted on women married in the Islamic faith.

Now, back to Rachel's ass since Nicole's ass belongs to Golden exclusively (eventhough I think that Nicole is being unfair because there may still be room in there for both Golden and me).

[This message has been edited by slut_boy (edited 04-08-2000).]

 

[Gil]

Damn it Slut_boy,

As a teacher, I had respect for you.

But you know damn well that constitutional law in this country, has absolutely no impact on the laws of a foreign country.

I say BULLSHIT!

 

[Slut_boy]

Gil, I am afraid that I don't follow what you are saying at all. I live in South Africa and South African Constitutional Law applies here.Our rather liberal constitution gives effect to most fundamental human rights. This country also has quite a large cross cultural diversity. Some of the practices and customs of the various cultures are being subjected to constitutional scrutiny - because, for example they violate human rights eg. some african cultures don't permit women to own private property. This patriarchial society based on a system of primogeniture is in direct violation of the right to equality which all people ought to enjoy, irrespective of their gender.

So, Gil, I am not too sure what the bullshit was that you referred to in your post in re mine. But I can tell you that I do take offence at your comment that what I said is bullshit. Perhaps you think that because you don't understand properly in which event you should read your aggressive post to Gus and to heart your very own advice. Let me clarify one more thing in an effort to regain the respect which you say you "had" but have apparently now lost.

There are no foreign laws being spoken of. I am talking about Islamic customs - nobody spoke about a law of a foreign country - these are customs practiced by the Islamic communities all over the world. My point is that in SA certain of these practices are unconstitutional in that they violate certain fundamental rights.

Finally, Gil, I hate it when someone tries to show disdain for me when their apparent disdain is based on a misunderstanding. If I have explained the point better this time then can I assume your insult to be retracted?

[This message has been edited by slut_boy (edited 04-08-2000).]

 

[Rachel Picabia]

Gus.
Religion is an organic development of homo sapians as they develop themselves into groups - whether tribes, societies or countries. Like myths, legends, story telling, philosophy and cave painting, religion is an attempt by a group of primitive humans to try to make sense of a World that seems to make no sense. 'What are we doing here?' 'Why does it rain?' 'Why does it get dark at night?' 'Why do our women get pregnant and produce babies?' Often, the people who come up with some theory of life on which a religion is founded have a fair enough grasp on life and the universe around them - for the times and environment they are living in, at least. (Remember that Islam is the newest of the major World religions. It's still in its infancy, really, compared to Christianity... or Buddhism, which is even older.) So, these founders come up with some medium for sharing their views with the peoples around them. Parables or rules usually. These parables and rules have to be fairly simple and black and white, so that everyone in the society - no matter how young or stupid - can understand them. The trouble with religions is they tend to stick around for a long-time after their sell-by date has run out.


It's kind of pointless arguing about whether or not the world would be better off without religion, 'cause it's never going to go away. It's a natural and unstoppable aspect of human psychology, that as people group themselves into societies, they develop religions. If you try to stamp out a religion before it's run its natural course, it's just going to come back even bigger and stronger. Just look at Christianity. Didn't matter how many lions the Romans threw at them, they just kept coming back for more. And if you DO try to wipe out a whole religion (as the Christians attempted to do with the Moslems during the Crusades), they're going to come back MAD AT YOU for trying to batter them down.

Your other points:
'Fuck-Face' - this is a meaningless verbal punch designed to sting the recipient.

'Tolerance of tabloid-readers' - nah, fuck them. I never once said I was a tolerant person. I deal with each case as it comes.

rachel
xox

 

[Rachel Picabia]

Now - everybody just lighten up, or I'll be forced to barter my ass on the 3,000 page-long physical description strand. Just for a little light relief.

Repeat after me:

'Yes, Mistress Rachel.'
'We're sorry, Mistress Rachel.'
'We promise to stop bickering, Mistress Rachel.'
'We LOVE YOU, Mistress Rachel.'

Now, boys - I want you all to give each other a hug. No tongues though.

 

[Gus]

Gil: Yes, yes and yes. Now please may a hold an opinion about the subject?

Is the reason for your enmity my post to your "Clits" thread?

Rachel: Thank you for the explanation, er, the fuck-face etc.
Now what does xox mean, I am ignorant of this BB speak, assuming that is what it is.

Just a quick edit: Isn't Rastafarian the youngest?

[This message has been edited by Gus (edited 04-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Gus (edited 04-08-2000).]

 

[Rachel Picabia]

Hello again, my English friend.

QUOTE: Isn't Rastafarian the youngest?

I do believe you're correct.

xox is just me giving hugs 'n' kisses, by the way. Nothing to do with the Net. I put them on Christmas cards too.

rachel
*£@!~!!!$$$£&&***

(I'm just messing with your head now.)

 

[Golden]

I'm having the classic problem ... I insist on your rights to free speech, and I urge tolerance on everyone, but sometimes when people write total crap (Gus, you paying attention there?) I have the irrisistible urge to tell you to shut the fuck up, 'cos I won't tolerate it!

Listening to the radio today on the way to an afternoon watching rugby ... debate on Londonlive radio on the topic: how the free speech lobbies are in a complete tangle over pornography; the liberals who oppose censorship (me one) usually include the anti-porn merchants who would close down internet porn in the mistaken view it is evil and degrades woman ... and who thus have more in common with religious fundamentalists, pro-lifers and other fascists ... all of whom I have real trouble tolerating!

 

[Rachel Picabia]

There's a long history of that, Golden. In the '80s, certain so-called 'feminists' (Dworkin etc) sold out all their other ideals, and alligned themselves with the religious Right in America. Just so they could have a bit of muscle behind their anti-porn campaign. Shows the kind of people we're up against.

Have you noticed how censorship laws have got even more restrictive since Labour got in, Golden? It's utter madness.

rachel
xox

 

[Golden]

Yeah Rachel, having joined Labour in 1972, been an activist and branch official for many years pre-kids ... only ever voted Labour ... I could be more pleased than I am... In the intervening hour I have read your post on this topic in some other thread ... you'd have been usful in the studio!

[This message has been edited by golden (edited 04-08-2000).]

 

[Nicole]

Fight over this all you like

I am just glad the subjest is off my ass

Slut_boy, You can join in the fun at any time you should know that already. Just wait until this lot is finished arguing

I can't get commfy with all this going on ......... or maybe we could go to a room all by ourselves?????

 

[Slut_boy]

Thank you for your post Gil. And by the way, I too have eaten of that humble pie - and I agree that it is terrible stuff - eventhough it is meant to do anything but leave a bad taste in your mouth.

Nicole, I am starting to like you more and more. Problem is that I know what these poms are like: I'll have to keep one eye on Golden, just to make sure that he doesn't try to ambush me from behind - a common battle plan of the poms (just ask the Argentinians about what happened in the Malvina's...er...sorry....the Falklands. *laughs*

 

[Rachel Picabia]

Woooooaaaahhh!!!!

101 POSTS. Yeeeehaaah!!! Shouldn't I have 'SLAG' under my name now?

rach
xox

 

[Gus]

Rachel: You can be so nice - thanks for the info on xox - then you turn nasty. I am of mixed race and take the English appelation as offensive but since you were not to know, I forgive you. No, part of my ancestry is from up there - Cambell, of Glencoe no less and a matter of pride whatever happenned long ago.

Gil: Thank you, that is most noble and I don't expect agreement.

Golden: Yes,you have the same problem as the rest of us, you are selectively tolorant. So what? Nobody (to my knowledge) believes in any of the ideals: free speech, democracy, truth - you name it. We pay lip-service to it, you ask Mr. Bliar.

S-B: Bit below the belt wasn't it old man? We had to go thousands of miles to rescue our poor islanders. The Argies knew we were coming, it was in the Sun after all!
Sorry, quick edit, just realised that you wouldn't know about the Sun. It is our finest newspaper. I am sure my fellow Brits will agree.

[This message has been edited by Gus (edited 04-09-2000).]

 

[ZULUBOY]

Hey, SB, in your swipe @ Gus, you forgot to mention Treunicht & Terre Blanche's favorite: what about all the Boer women & children, etc, etc!

Sorry, just my 2p worth!