Well that was different

[SeaCat]

Well that was different. The wind here right now is out of the North East at around 25 MPH. I went out to crush some cans in the carport and was startled when it started to rain. Not a nice evening sprinkle, I'm talking it started coming down hard enough that I had a hard time seeing the street light across the street. About a minute later the rain just plain stopped. It was like someone turning a faucet on then off again.

Cat

Oh and just a little ways to the north of us there is one hell of a Thunder Storm going. It's lighting the sky almost continously.

 

[logophile]

Stay safe, Cat.

 

[Dar~]

it does that here too cat all of a sudden on a cloudless day it will get overcast and rain or hail and then the clouds will vanish and it'll be like it had never happened.

 

[SeaCat]

Stay safe, Cat.

Thank you for the wishes but it won't be anything too interesting here. We're forecast for winds up to maybe 35-40 MPH and some rain. (We need the rain.)

The people I worry about are the ones south of us who's houses were damaged by the last storm and who haven't had a chance to make repairs.

Cat

 

[R. Richard]

Let me add my good wishes cat. Hurricanes have a mind of their own and can go damn near anywhere.

 

[yui]

And I'll add my wishes on top of Richard's; be safe, Cat.

 

[minsue]

Those are the only kind of storms I'm used to. Confused the hell out of me in P-town when it just rained calmly and steadily all day.

Echoing the calls for safety.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I remember quite well the warm summer rains of my childhood. Sometimes they would seem to come from nowhere but they were almost always welcome. I especially liked them if they were accompanied by thunder and lightning.

 

[SummerMorning]

Can I ask just one question? I really don't understand the big fuss about 60 kph winds and heavy rains. How do you build houses where you live, that this can be problem?

(background info: where I live we get about 3000-4000 mm of precipitation per year and regularly gusts of wind in excess of 100 kph)

P. S. I really don't get it why it should be necessary to say "Keep safe" - it seems to me the solution in the conditions you've mentioned is to go inside, put on a sweater and read a good book. So I'm just asking if there are other circumstances that make it hard to get through a storm like the one you mention.

 

[SummerMorning]

O. K. - just checked - further south the katabatic bora wind reaches 150 kph, here 100 kph is not that rare.

 

[SummerMorning]

Checked some more - 117 kph is hurricane force.

Now, the question that sort of presents itself is - why don't you just build houses to withstand that kind of windspeed?

 

[TxRad]

Checked some more - 117 kph is hurricane force.

Now, the question that sort of presents itself is - why don't you just build houses to withstand that kind of windspeed?

Cat. Speed Damage
1 74-95 mph
64-82 kts
119-153 km/hr
No real damage to building structures. Damage
primarily to unanchored mobile homes,
shrubbery, and trees. Some damage to
poorly constructed signs.

2
96-110 mph
83-95 kts
154-177 km/hr
Some roofing material, door, and window
damage of buildings. Considerable damage to
shrubbery and trees with some trees blown
down. Considerable damage to mobile homes,
poorly constructed signs, and piers.

3
111-130 mph
96 -113 kts
178-209 km/hr
Some structural damage to small residences and
utility buildings with a minor amount of
curtainwall failures. Damage to shrubbery and
trees with foliage blown off trees and large tress
blown down. Mobile homes and poorly
constructed signs are destroyed.

4
131-155 mph
114-135 kts
210-249 km/hr
More extensive curtainwall failures with some
complete roof structure failures on small
residences. Shrubs, trees, and all signs are
blown down. Complete destruction of mobile
homes. Extensive damage to doors and
windows.

5
Greater than
155 mph
135 kts
249 km/hr
Complete roof failure on many residences and
industrial buildings. Some complete building
failures with small utility buildings blown over or
away. All shrubs, trees, and signs blown down.
Complete destruction of mobile homes. Severe
and extensive window and door damage.

Ok there are the cats.....

now for why they don't or can't build houses to withstand hurricane winds.... the wind itself isn't the problem.... its the flying debrie that is the problem... one 2x4 six foot long in a cat 5 can pierce a brick wall... I've seen pine straw sticking an inch deep in a telephone post...

Second is the vacumn.... pressure differences that can make a building explode or implode... or jus flat rip it apart...

You ask about the rain and flooding... yes its a problem but storm surge is the real killer.... In Katrina it was around 28 feet.. yes feet. driven by 65 foot waves around the eye wall... A 28 foot rise in water levels pushed by the force of the storm and it just keeps coming and coming and coming much like a tidal wave....

Move to higher ground.... Now that is intersting... where along the gulf coast is that..... Pick a number of say 30 feet.... that would move the coastal cities inland about 30 to 50 miles.... abandon about 90% of Fla at the very least... Houston would have to move a minimum of 60 miles north

Anyone else want to add to this.... go ahead....

 

[Weird Harold]

Checked some more - 117 kph is hurricane force.

Now, the question that sort of presents itself is - why don't you just build houses to withstand that kind of windspeed?

117kph is a minimal hurricane, and minimal hurricanes aren't much of a problem exept if they're slow moving and dump a lot of rain one place in a very short period of time.

Katrina made landfall with winds at just under 155 MPH -- roughly 195 KPH -- and spawned one or more tornados -- as well as dumping about a quarter of your annual rainfall in less than one day.

Building houses and other structures to withstand a minimal (cat 1) hurricane is fairly simple and inexpenive. Building to withstand a Cat 3 hurricane is a bit more difficult and costs about three times as much; Building to withstand more than a Cat 3 gets even more difficult and more expensive the stronger you build for -- Eventually it reaches a point where it's cheaper to rebuild after a storm than to build to protect against one.

I'm not sure what the exact odds are, but New Orleans was supposedly protected against a "300 Year Storm" -- a storm statistically likely to hit New Orleans once every 300 years.

Most people are willing to gamble that storms bad enough to do real damage won't happen in their lifetimes to live where the weather and view are worth the extra cost of building homes strong enough to withstand most of the bad weather that is likely to happen.

 

[SeaCat]

SummerMorning,

I don't know you so I'm going to take your post as an actual looking for information one and not a rhetorical(sp) one.

As many of the people on this board know I as well as several others here went through at least one hurricane last year. I went through two and I believe that someone else here got the joys of going through three. (Florida got hit by a total of four last year.) Many of the people in south Florida are still repairing damage to their houses caused by last years storms and are therefore vulnerable to another storm strike. Also the Gulf Coast as I'm sure you know was just hit by a major storm and doesn't need another one right now. (Then again Coastal Texas, while I'm sure it could use the rain, doesn't need to get hit right now either.) As for myself I am living in a house which is unprotected because the owner doesn't believe he needs to lower his insurance premiums by installing shutters. (I just moved in and haven't had the time or the money to make shutters yet. By next season this place will be protected and I'll be much more relaxed.)

As has been mentioned above building a house or apartment building to survive a minimal hurricane can be done. Your basic wood framed house can survive one quite easily as long as it is well maintained. Hell I'm sure we could build a house that would survive a Catagory 5 storm quite easily. Then again who wants to live in a bunker? Also I should mention that many of the houses and other buildings in my area as well as places like New Orleans are older buildings. (Once I get window coverings for my place I won't worry about this house. It was built in 1953 and has survived more than a couple of storms.)

The damage caused by hurricanes is not limited to one factor. First we have the sustained winds. Last year the two storms I endured had sustained winds at landfall of 105 MPH (Frances) and 120 MPH (Jeanne) respectively. This constantly blowing wind wears away and erodes structures like water does. It also has the nasty habit of vearing midway through the storm, sometimes quite suddenly. This wind will move objects picked up or loosened by wind gusts.
Second we have the wind gusts. Take your sustained winds of say 105 MPH then add gusts of up to 120+ MPH to it and you can get some major damage just from the wind. Anything broken off by these gusts are then carried along by the sustained winds. These gusts can and will tear shutters off buildings and break the wondows or doors underneath. ( As an aside here. If you lose a window or door during a storm like this the wind blowing into the window or door will increase the pressure inside the building to the point where the walls can and will fail.) They can also pick up debris and throw it. (I had a couple of pictures on my old computer of a Mobile Home that had been hit by Sea Grapes picked up by the winds. These SeaGrapes passed through both walls of the Mobile Home, going through the sheet metal walls like they were paper.)
The third damaging part of these storms is flooding which is caused by both the rainfall and from the storm surge. (The rain also causes the soil to become "weaker" which helps the wind with toppling trees and power poles among other things.)

Yes we can and do build structures that can withstand these types of forces either one at a time or all at once. The building codes are much more stringent than they were in the 1970's and early 1980's. However it is much more difficult to retrofit a building which is already in existence than it is to build a new house to meet these codes. (We have a building in DownTown West Palm Beach which was built to withstand a Catagory 5+ storm. We call it the Bunker and even that didn't come through last summers storms unscathed.)

As for the good wishes from the members of this board to those in the path of a storm. I believe they come from a true fear for the safety of our friends. The members of this board have either been through the heatache and destruction of a major storm, or they have seen it through the eyes of other members here who have gone through it. (Not too mention seeing it on TV, but hearing about it and seeing it through the eyes of a friend is a bit different.)

I'm hoping this helps.
Cat