Welfare

[Nobody Special's wife]

Why is it that woman that are pregnant can get welfare ...I go in there and they ask if I'm pregnant ...OF course my answer is NO... And they said they could not help me...I find that this has got to be some kind of descrimation because...I work and pay taxes...I just don't understand this

 

[Merelan]

It's a hard fact, but since you work and have been smart enough to avoid children when you cannot afford them, you lose. Or at least you lose the welfare lottery. No, not sure that is a loss anyway. But you get what I am saying. Now if you had a couple kids, different Dads help, sat around whining all day then bing, you win, or lose.
Nope, don't get all over me about "I am a hard worker but going to school and need the help right now", or "my ex is a deadbeat and doesn't pay so I have to have help". I do not mean you. I mean the ones who live and die on it, without trying, or being taught or shown, there is a better, more self respecting life. It wasn't created to support you, it was created to help while you were in a tough spot, to be there to help you through school, or to catch up with the deadbeats, and they aren't all men!
I have sat here and read many opinions, brilliant and otherwise about welfare and the social system, but it really starts with us. It will only change when we show them that there is another way. A better way. They don't need to stay on it and use it as a crutch, but can be self sufficient. Of course this also means we, and I include myself, need to get off my butt and get out there and volunteer. Teach one person how to read, how to get a checking account. How to shop for groceries the right way. Then we need to make it stop. Make a limit and then stick to it. There is only so long, so much they get help, except for those who cannot. Then, what about the poorhouse. I hear Dickens now... (please forgive me Master.) I believe they are a helpful need in society. A place where those who, for whatever reason, cannot live or support themselves. A home for them with others where they share the load. If they cannot work to support themselves, then chances are they need help around the house also. So, it's cheaper to live together.
I have ranted enough. Don't even get me going on pregnancy and welfare.

 

[Nobody Special's wife]

I understand you there ..Its just that I need the medical card till I can get insurance ...And I can't even get that so I don't know what I'm going to do??

 

[Merelan]

I am not sure about where you live. But, here in Central New York several of the hospitals have a special plan, I guess. It is for those that fall between the cracks. You get a discount on care and it is paid off in a payment plan. I had my second heart attack when I was uninsured. Talk about bills. But with this help it cut the cost almost in half, and gave me the chance to pay it off a bit at a time. I have heard other places have it too. the hospital offered it to me, I doidn't know they had it till then. Ask them. I know they don't advertise this becasue they would get overwhelmed with people. In my case, and from what I have heard here from you, it was care I had to have. No question about waiting.
Maybe I was just lucky. But check. If not, ask them at social services for programs that can help. You really have to harass and bother to get ansdwers as they are way overworked and understaffed.

 

[Sammyjo]

Thanks for not talking about me Merelan

I was in a tough spot a few months ago. I had no job and no insurance. My daughter was covered by her father's insurance (court ordered of course) so I couldn't apply for "medical assistance" by the welfare department. I applied for medical and was turned down...I could have paid for my own appointments anyway for the price they wanted to charge, so it was a good thing, I guess.

I eventually got a job, and insurance kicked in about a month later. Yea for me!!!

You should be able to apply for something. We have Minnesota Care here. Anyone can apply. They pretty much go by family size and income...you should have a similar program in Michigan...go online and check out the State of Michigan homepage...there should be something under Health and Welfare...hope that helps.

 

[Wizard]

Off the subject a little for a sec.....Anyone remember the piece that Eddie Murphy did on Wefare????...now that was funny the one about the ice cream.......Anyone?????

 

[Madame Pandora]

I got some iiiiiice cream and you can't haaaave none...

 

[Wizard]

LMAO...thats it....you can't have any cause your mother is on welfare......Plop to the ground........

 

[Madame Pandora]

At the risk of being labeled a bleeding heart liberal...

As long as I've got a roof over my head I will never begrudge anyone else a dime...

The manipulation of welfare is shameful. But do you know what ELSE is shameful? The manipulation of the obscenely wealthy to divert attention from themselves. Sure...make the POOR feel ashamed for being uneducated and bleak. They're so unworthy. And, BTW...don't bother to feel any shame at all while you're trolling on your $60,000 boat sipping tequila.

So there are women on welfare...some with more children than they know what to do with, bringing new lives into this world because it is pretty much the only thing they know how to do. And there are people starving who won't even apply for welfare because they tried their damn hearts out and were taught to believe you never take a handout.

And there are people who buy coach edition lexus cars and buy homes that sit on lots the size of a golf course.

And it's the POOR who should be ashamed. Those damn ungrateful poor.

Tell you what...when I see some real effort on the part of the disgustingly wealthy to equalize the balance of power in the world...AND I don't mean the US alone. We, as a nation, are the lexus-driving bastards of the world despite how many go hungry in our city streets. I mean the world. And I count myself as guilty as anyone else. But I honestly, like so many others, have no clue or genius to solve the problem. So I accept what happiness life has to offer. And I don't begrudge what anyone else has to do in order to get through their days. I make what little effort I can...wish it were more, and take in a movie along the way, grateful I have the opportunities I have (well...okay...I pause to bitch OCCASSIONALLY).

If someone isn't making it...if they have fallen into a system of drugs, corruption, and loss of faith...then they can have some of my tax dollars. Maybe they can also take in a movie and have a smile or two along the way before they go back to the rancid cruelty of harsh reality.

Do I wish I could teach a man to fish instead of just handing him a fish? Hell yeah. We all do. I think most of us WANT to go good. We just don't know how.

Surely you're not saying we have the resources to save the poor from their lot. There will be poor always, patheticaly struggling. Look at the good things you've got.

MP

 

[Sammyjo]

I agree with you MP. I used welfare to my advantage...to get medical care for my daughter and I. They started handing me food and money...I thought, ok, I guess this will help out until I start working. I went to school, got two college degrees and got off the system.

I have seen people sit on it for years and years and years and years...not doing a damn thing but keeping up with their "stories" on the TV. That is reprehensible. Not only are they not helping themselves, they are teaching more people (their children) to act like lazy, uneducated, fools.

All I have to say is this...welfare reform needs to happen, but in a more thought out, kind manner than has been put into place. Sending a woman to school (at least here) is equivilent to taking about 1 semester of actual college courses...which is why I paid for my own college education...If we are going to educate people, we should do it right. Those that need child care, get it. Those that need financial assistance, get it. Then, we send them to either a community college, a university, or a vocational school...we don't send them to 3 classes and call them educated. They get REAL degrees. They get REAL jobs and work for two months before we boot them off welfare.

I have a hell of a lot to say on this issue, because I've been there. It's been a few years since all that happened, but the day I got my job, my benefits were cut. That did not help the situation any...hell, you don't even get a check for at least two weeks...and now you have no money, no food, and no medical. That was the situation I was in. It's happened to others. I love the push to get people to be self-sufficient. In my case, I pretty much was, using the money they sent me to pay for day care...and taking out every dime in student loans to support our daily needs. However, they go about it the wrong way. At least here. Ever since welfare was made a state issue, it's gotten bad. Now that it isn't "federally" funded, it sucks.

Ok, gotta get my butt to work...have a nice day all.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

The wealthy hire the poor. If the wealth were redistributed, the rich would quickly get it back unless you take away every possible incentive to do so. Then who creates growth and new jobs resulting in the increased technology that we will need to avoid Soylent Green? Our safety net is become a womb to the tomb security blanket.

Nearly half of everything we earn goes into taxes and redistributing the wealth, but has not cured, but perhaps exacerbated to problem. If there were some sign that this approach is working, I could side with the socialists and bleeding hearts. I say pare it down, create more incentive to work, and increase educational efforts and economic opportunities and that is best done by giving people more money.

As for the world. We best lead by example. We best help as individuals. It is not our government's role to be the provider of the world's dole.

 

[Cheyenne]

Do I wish I could teach a man to fish instead of just handing him a fish? Hell yeah. We all do. I think most of us WANT to go good. We just don't know how.

Come to Wisconsin to learn. We have a program called W2. Welfare rolls have dropped and the people have been put to work rather than given handouts, when they are able to work anyway. Yes, there are critics of the program here. But it is hard to argue with the numbers that show people are getting training and going to work to help themselves.

 

[Juspar Emvan]

Hand up not Hand out

I agree with Andra.

We'd all love to see a step closer to utopia, but I think that most welfare plans are on the wrong track. I'm really interested in this W2 and would appreciate a link Cheyenne, if you know of one.

Wife - it sucks that the people who want to get welfare for legitimate or constructive purposes cant, but thats down to the old conflict between the letter and the spirit of things. Not much help there but you have my sympathies and best wishes.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

I'm one of those bleeding heart liberals that MP was talking about. When you see people who, through no fault of their own, are up against it, compassion (not the oxymoron "compassionate conservative") bubbles to the fore. Having said that, many of you (on both sides of the issue) made good points. Its refreshing to see that reasonable people can disagree - without being disagreeable.

 

[FlamingoBlue]

I think that things are going to get...

worse in the U.S. before they are going to get better, especially with our new compassionate conservative president and his Cabinet appointments, Tommy Thompson and Linda Chavez. Remamber when "Uncle Ron" made ketchup a vegtable? Well, "booger" will now likely be considered a food. As for workfare, the last ime that really worked was during FDR's term when he created the CCC.

There is nothing more perverted than a country that pays its athletes and entertainers more than it pays its teachers, fireman and policemen. No one in the U.S. should have to go homeless or hungry. No one should be without birth control devices or a good education. But then, again, we do need more supercarriers and weapons systems, don't we??

blue

p.s. to Thor. A liberal, huh. Welcome to the club!

 

[livin_simple]

I completely agree with Andra_Jenny.

Nearly half of everything we earn goes into taxes and redistributing the wealth, but has not cured, but perhaps exacerbated to problem. If there were some sign that this approach is working, I could side with the socialists and bleeding hearts. I say pare it down, create more incentive to work, and increase educational efforts and economic opportunities and that is best done by giving people more money.

I also agree with Thor and Flamingo that our society's values are completely screwed up. We give no esteem to seeking an education or to educators, yet a decent education beyond high school is nearly mandatory for a decent paying job. But I believe a decent education and successful gainful employment IS available to anyone who wants to obtain it. This is being proven daily by the children of first generation immigrants who spoke no english when they arrived, excelled in the educational system and found financially rewarding jobs.

I work hard applying education and skills that I spent five years obtaining and the past thirteen refining. Yet over a third of my income is taken from me and re-distributed to people who have been told they are 'entitled' to a portion of my income. Something just seems fundamentally wrong with this type of system.

 

[Madame Pandora]

Ch...ch...ch....chaaaanges....

I don't think any of us are really disagreeing.

Basically, we all want the system to get better. We all want people to be helped. I don't think the frustation over this issue stems from a lack of knowing how to solve things.

Sadly, I think it is going to get worse before it gets better. But, I also think it will get better.

Here is the point I was trying to make. It is so easy to point a finger at the uneducated, the drug-addicted, the person who is down on their luck. I am not saying they are innocent. I am not saying they are not at least partly (if not totally) responsible for their situations. What I don't understand is that people (not necessarily those expressing opinions on this board) are so fast to pick the easy target.

Wealth is an illusion. Things are an illusion. Sure...they're immediate gratification. I am ON my computer as I write this...the expensive toy I use to read smut, write my own thoughts and ideas, watch cartoon, listen to music. I could have used the money for this machine to help someone. I could be donating my time instead of typing on this BB.

But, my life is my choice. And I am so grateful to have a choice...and when I do make the selfish choices I make, I try to remind myself that I give as I can. If I had the answer to this issue...if I could end poverty...I would do it. I can't, so I do the best I can and I enjoy my own life. And I am not going to tell anyone - even a crack-addicted mother of 7 living in a trailer on welfare - that she doesn't have a right to enjoy her life to.

I don't always respect the system. I don't always respect those who abuse it. But I see them. They're people. It's easy to say they're all wrong. Lump them into this pot of losers. I just have trouble with that.

Here is the point I was trying to make, which proably got a little sidetracked in my ramblings. I am not saying it is the rich who are to blame, or the poor who are to blame. I am saying it's human nature to point blame at the easy target. And, no matter how you respect people of wealth for whatever gumption got them to their status, I don't understand how they sit comfortably with all that wealth. I don't undestand the hoarde philosophy of it. I still feel guilty with just my paycheck to paycheck lifestyle and computer ;-)

I would like to think that if I had that kind of money at my disposal that I would be making a difference with it. A difference beyond donations to ballance my taxes.

And I'm looking up the Wisconsin system as soon as I get home. I haven't heard anything about it, but it sounds hopeful.

MP

 

[Madison]

Why is it that we need a license to drive, a license to cut hair...a license to FISH, but ANYONE can have a kid???

Isn't that a little warped?
Madison

 

[Sammyjo]

Tell mother nature to give women their periods sometime around 25 and we may not have this problem anymore.

 

[Cheyenne]

We'd all love to see a step closer to utopia, but I think that most welfare plans are on the wrong track. I'm really interested in this W2 and would appreciate a link Cheyenne, if you know of one.

There it is! I knew someone had requested this info about Wisconsin's program.

http://www.dwd.state.wi.us/desw2/wisworks.htm
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/innovations/winners/1999/w299.htm

There are many more links if you are really interested. Go to google.com and search on Wisconsin Works.

Gov. Thompson will do a good job at the national level- a good selection by Bush. Hate to see Tommy leave Wisconsin- he has been our gov. for 14 years, longer than any other gov. in office at the moment.