Welcome to the New World.

[ksmybuttons]

I remember reading an "end of the world as we know it" science fiction book years ago. The whales were dying. The reason was because we had killed off the plankton with pollution...

Eerily similar:

The "dead zone" off Oregon's coast is back -- larger, thicker, and more lethal than ever.

For the fifth year in a row, scientists have witnessed thousands of sea creatures dying in the Pacific Ocean.

This year, the dead zone covers 1,200 square miles, according to Oregon State University marine ecologist Jane Lubchenco.

On Tuesday, Lubchenco's team witnessed crabs dying by the thousands.

"There are no fish down there that we could see," Lubchenco said. "This is an area where we have measured chronically low oxygen."

Undersea video taken Tuesday shows thousands of dead and dying crabs.
VIDEO:

Undersea video from the Dead Zone

Scientists found almost no oxygen in the water there. According to OSU marine ecologist Francis Chan, "we're only half-a-step away from zero -- or the absence of oxygen."

The dead zone now ranges from Florence to Lincoln City, and, for the first time, there's another pocket off Washington's Olympic Peninsula.

While other ocean dead zones have been caused by pollution, scientists say they're not sure what's causing the current die-off. The leading theory: global warming.

"What we're seeing is absolutely consistent with predictions for climate change," Lubchenco said, "but we cannot say for sure that's what causing it."

As the dead zone becomes a regular occurrence, researchers say it points to a fundamental shift in marine conditions and ocean behavior.

OSU researchers are now working on new models to allow scientists to predict when the dead zones will occur.

Noticed any changes in your world?

 

[bptalt]

That is disturbing. Why does it happen, or don't they know?

 

[SleepingWarrior]

That is disturbing. Why does it happen, or don't they know?

The boogeyman of the moment... global warming.

 

[ksmybuttons]

That is disturbing. Why does it happen, or don't they know?

It is disturbing. It's been going on for a few years, but much more extensive this year. What happens is the cold water from the ocean floor, which is high in nutrients and low in oxygen comes to the surface. Now, normally, this is okay because it mixes with the oxygen rich water and helps the food chain. For the dead zone to occur the lack of oxygen causes huge plant death and it decreases even more of the available oxygen.

Why? They really aren't sure, but Jack Barth, an oceanographer with PISCO and the OSU College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences says "This change from normal seasonal patterns, and the increased variability, are both consistent with climate change scenarios."

Of course, for many, there still is no climate change occuring. Or, some say it's a "normal trend."

I say it's disturbing and it is changing the world as we know it.

SW, I guess you can chalk it down as just another boogeyman. We'd hate to try and make a difference by working on controlling those things that we can control.

 

[SleepingWarrior]

Its a boogeyman because its the first thing people come up with. Everything now must be tied to global warming... its an easy thing to say when they can't come up with an answer.

 

[LukkyKnight]

Its a boogeyman because its the first thing people come up with. Everything now must be tied to global warming... its an easy thing to say when they can't come up with an answer.

What an odd definition.

Typically the first thing people come up with is what their intuition suggests, which is correct a surprisingly large fraction of the time.

 

[ksmybuttons]

What an odd definition.

Typically the first thing people come up with is what their intuition suggests, which is correct a surprisingly large fraction of the time.

There's something about 1200 square miles of dead ocean that's a little disturbing no matter what the cause. Now, there are other dead zones attributed to pollution, but not this one.

Seems fairly impactful to me...Luckily I'm allergic to crab. It doesn't affect me personally, so why should I care? (ooo. I don't think I've used that emot before!)

 

[bptalt]

There's something about 1200 square miles of dead ocean that's a little disturbing no matter what the cause. Now, there are other dead zones attributed to pollution, but not this one.

Seems fairly impactful to me...Luckily I'm allergic to crab. It doesn't affect me personally, so why should I care? (ooo. I don't think I've used that emot before!)

I am not a global warming freak, and I question the validity of it based on a number of reasons. That being said, is may be valid as well, we should do everything possible not to adversely harm the environment. It matters not if this particular phenomenon is man made or not, it is disturbing.

 

[Zinnia]

Yes indeed I have seen changes.

#1. My world was shaken to it's core and I'm not talking a earthquake.

#2. I'm returning responsibility over to those who are responsible and I'm leaving!

#3. It's hotter than normal down here in Hell.

#4. I just don't give a shit any more and that's a real new world for me.


The winds of change are blowing in.

 

[Adrenaline]

The L.A. Times did a great series on the environmental changes taking place in the ocean's ecosystems. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/oceans/la-oceans-series,0,7842752.special It's another in a long line of wake-up calls.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Any data regarding water temperatures where this all occurred?

 

[Lost Cause]

Do they have a historic baseline like 10 million years of data?

I thought not...........it's just "chicken little" hypothesis..

Buy a motorcycle..

 

[Adrenaline]

How something like the protection of our environment managed to be manipulated into a partisan issue is something I will never understand.

 

[John Doe]

That's Star Trek IV.

 

[sigh]

Its a boogeyman because its the first thing people come up with. Everything now must be tied to global warming... its an easy thing to say when they can't come up with an answer.

What the marine scientist actually said:

"What we're seeing is absolutely consistent with predictions for climate change," Lubchenco said, "but we cannot say for sure that's what causing it."

She stated it as a correlation, that it fits very well with certain current climate models. But not only did she stop short of claiming cause and effect between climate change and the dead zone, she went further to add they can't say anything for sure. She didn't even use the words "global warming". Her's was a reasonable, qualified and restrained observation, exactly as it should be.

What amazes me is the number of people who are so freaked out by the mere suggestion of global warming that they'd rather shrug off all concern than face the fact that what ksmy is showing us is indeed alarming, regardless of its cause. Now granted, it's not run-for-the-hills alarming, but it's certainly worthy of note. Why not pay attention? Consider the resource the ocean is to the people of this planet, then error on the side of caution. Isn't that what being conservative is all about?

What if global warming is real? Doesn't that worry you just a little? I've never heard of a single scientist arguing the truth of the boogeyman, but most will acknowledge at least the potential of human-induced climate change.

Tossing global warming off as a boogeyman is just substitution and diversion.

 

[sigh]

That's Star Trek IV.

where bringing up one whale from the past saves the oceans.....

where's Cap'n Kirk when we need him most?

 

[LotusDreamer]

What amazes me is the number of people who are so freaked out by the mere suggestion of global warming that they'd rather shrug off all concern than face the fact that what ksmy is showing us is indeed alarming, regardless of its cause. Now granted, it's not run-for-the-hills alarming, but it's certainly worthy of note. Why not pay attention? Consider the resource the ocean is to the people of this planet, then error on the side of caution. Isn't that what being conservative is all about?

What if global warming is real? Doesn't that worry you just a little? I've never heard of a single scientist arguing the truth of the boogeyman, but most will acknowledge at least the potential of human-induced climate change.

Tossing global warming off as a boogeyman is just substitution and diversion.

I know this kinda long and sappy, but I think it some how applies here.

A Mouse Story ...
A mouse looked through the

crack in the wall to see the farmer and his wife
open a package.

"What food might this contain?" The mouse wondered
- he was devastated to discover it was a mousetrap.

Retreating to the farmyard,

the mouse proclaimed the
warning.

"There is a mousetrap in the house! There is a
mousetrap in the house!"

The chicken clucked and scratched, raised her head
and said, "Mr. Mouse, I can tell this is a grave concern
to you but it is of no consequence to me.
>
I cannot be bothered by it."

The mouse turned to the pig and told him, "There is
a mousetrap in the house! There is a mousetrap in the
house!"

The pig sympathized, but said,

"I am so very sorry, Mr. Mouse,
but there is nothing I can do about it but pray.
Be assured you are in my prayers."

The mouse turned to the cow and said, "There is a
mousetrap in the house! There is a mousetrap in the house!"

The cow said, "Wow, Mr. Mouse.
I'm sorry for you, but it's no skin off my nose."

So, the mouse returned to the house, head down and
dejected, to face the farmer's mousetrap-- alone.

That very night a sound was heard throughout the
house -- like the sound of a mousetrap catching its prey.

The farmer's wife rushed to see what was caught.

In the darkness, she did not see it was a venomous snake
whose tail the trap had caught.

> > >> The snake bit the farmer's wife. The farmer rushed her
to the hospital and she returned home with a fever.
>
Everyone knows you treat a fever with fresh chicken
soup, so the farmer took his hatchet to the farmyard for
the soup's main ingredient.

But his wife's sickness continued,
so friends and neighbors came
to sit with her around the clock.

To feed them, the farmer butchered the pig.

The farmer's wife did not get well; she died.

So many people came for her funeral, the farmer
had the cow slaughtered to provide enough meat for
all of them.
>
The mouse looked upon it all from his crack in the
wall with great sadness..

 

[John Doe]

where bringing up one whale from the past saves the oceans.....

where's Cap'n Kirk when we need him most?

Two. It was two whales.

Jesus Christ don't you know anything?

 

[John Doe]

error on the side of caution. Isn't that what being conservative is all about?

"error" on the side of caution, HAHA, conservative, right...

I'll take that as a no.

 

[ObsideanWarrior]

Climatology is a hobby of mine, so here's the skinny on global warming and the dead zones and all that.

1) The Earth is getting warmer, the Right's denials notwithstanding. Glaciers are shrinking, growing seasons are lengthening, temps are going up. HOWEVER, the warming is not uniform. Some areas are warming dramatically. Others are warming slightly. A few are even cooling, but, overall, the Earth is getting warmer.

2) We don't really know why the Earth is getting warmer. We can be pretty sure humans are not completely responsible. Solar output is up, and in fact the Martian icefields (dry ice) are shrinking, too. On the other hand, climate scientists have long believed, even before the Left wanted to politicize climate science, that increased CO2 levels would probably add a degree or two of warming to the mix. Which brings us to

3) The computer models that forecast the dire scenarios of climate change (i.e., several degrees Celsius warming) are not basing that on CO2 emissions only. These models assume secondary feedback effects caused by the warming. And we all know what happens when you assume...

4) Climate change is always occuring. During the Middle Ages we saw temperatures a couple degrees warmer and a couple degrees cooler than today. Interestingly, when the planet got warmer, the dire feedback effects today's computer models count on to melt the polar icecaps didn't happen...

5) The ocean dead zones are primarily a result of overuse of nitrogen-based fertilizers and inadequate treatment of runoff from urban areas, not global warming. The dead zones are a significant issue, and one that I believe merits further research as well as effort at remediation. But it cannot be considered part and parcel of global warming.

 

[ksmybuttons]

<snip>

5) The ocean dead zones are primarily a result of overuse of nitrogen-based fertilizers and inadequate treatment of runoff from urban areas, not global warming. The dead zones are a significant issue, and one that I believe merits further research as well as effort at remediation. But it cannot be considered part and parcel of global warming.

The impact is partly man made? Who would have thought?

If we have a way to impact, even in a small way, should we then not do something? I live in one of the "greenest" cities in the country and even we don't do enough. As the population grows, I believe we have a responsibility to do it with the least amount of impact on the land. There is no justification to do it otherwise. Wisdom.

 

[John Doe]

The impact is partly man made? Who would have thought?

If we have a way to impact, even in a small way, should we then not do something? I live in one of the "greenest" cities in the country and even we don't do enough. As the population grows, I believe we have a responsibility to do it with the least amount of impact on the land. There is no justification to do it otherwise. Wisdom.

All of that is assuming global warming would be an irrefutably, irrevocably bad thing, which no one has proven or even adressed that I know of.

And it also ignores the first four items. Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is still misguided.

 

[ksmybuttons]

All of that is assuming global warming would be an irrefutably, irrevocably bad thing, which no one has proven or even adressed that I know of.

And it also ignores the first four items. Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is still misguided.

Hmmm. 1200 square miles of dead ocean isn't a bad thing?

I think it has been proven that man impacts and is feeding into global warming. It's misguided to try to curtail some of that? I don't think so.

 

[Saint Boner]

I think closing the Ozone hole is more important than global warming. You do that and you are good to go except for shitting in the Ocean. One thing at a time.

 

[cjh]

what amazes me is that if we have good reason to believe that we are contributing significantly to global warning, but we don't "know" it--then so many of us argue that we need to ignore good reason until we know.

i don't know about you, but i switched my uniroyal tires as soon evidence mounted that the tread was separating from the tire; i sure as hell did not wait until uniroyal finally, begrudgingly, acknowledged the problem.