We Need A Good Political Thread - The (US) Civil War

Sandia

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And the topic is:

The (American) Civil War

Why the war was not really over slavery (by Sandia)

The schoolbook history of the Civil War is that it was fought over slavery. It makes Americans feel warm and fuzzy. And Northerners especially feel good about this version of history.

It's mainly wrong. Here's why:

The war aims of the North never included emancipation.

Abraham Lincoln: My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that."

~Letter from the President, NY Tribune, August, 1962.

From his inaugural address: "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

The Emancipation Proclamation was a war measure, with two purposes. 1. To encourage border states to stay in the Union; and 2. To (hopefully) deprive the South of slave-manpower.

What the E. P. actually said was not (as many people seem to think) that the slaves were free, but that those slaves in parts of the US that were in rebellion against the government, and not under control of US authority were freed. Slaves in Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri (slave states that remained loyal to the Union) were not freed. Slaves in Tennessee and those parts of Virginia and Louisiana under Federal occupation were also excluded.

To put it differently, the E. P. freed all the slaves the US government had no power to free, and kept slavery everywhere it had the power to end it.

Furthermore, the preliminary E. P. was an explicit proposition to the rebel states, since it promised not to emancipate slaves in any state that rejoined the Union before the actual proclamation went into effect.

No Southern state took Lincoln up on this offer.

Now, there's no doubt that hostility over slavery led up to the secession. But once it began, that is not what the North and South fought over.

The South fought for independence. The North was fighting for preservation of the Union.

This is how the soldiers of the time understood the conflict, and it's how their leaders defined it.

The idea that the Civil War was a war over slavery is a modern invention.

Thoughts please.
 
So you're saying that Honest Abe was actually a big fat jerk?

*runs away crying*
 
Naw. He just thought that winning the war was more important than freeing the slaves. 'Sides, he prolly thought there'd be plenty of time for that after the war was over.
 
No argument here. I was actually taught that it wasn't about slavery.

We need a good political thread with some controversy, damn it.
 
Sandia said:
Naw. He just thought that winning the war was more important than freeing the slaves. 'Sides, he prolly thought there'd be plenty of time for that after the war was over.

Ah, okay. Did you know your name means watermelon?
 
sigh, it seems as though the only way to get people to participate in a political thread is by suddenly insulting all the members of a certain group.
 
As many people know the people who write the history books put their own spin on some of the events they write about it. The main reason I think the books now say it was fought over slavery is because the end of slavery was a result that was brought about by the war. Also slavery was a big reason why the South left the Union so that is another reason alot of the books focus on the slavery aspect of the war. But when I was taught about the war all aspects of it were examined (maybe I just had an above average teacher). The teacher told us outright that the war was not solely about slavery and never was.
 
Sorry, I also agree that the civil war was not about slavery, but hell if I'm gonna post on another intellectual thread tonight. There's practically smoke coming out my ears from all the thinking I've had to do.
 
Pyper said:


Ah, okay. Did you know your name means watermelon?

Y'know, I been told that... somebody told me that a few days ago.

sigh: I think all the controvercial people are asleep. Wankers.

Never: Dammit! Mutherfucking Watermelons Kiss My Ass!

That wasn't very good, was it.
 
Pyper:
"Sorry, I also agree that the civil war was not about slavery, but hell if I'm gonna post on another intellectual thread tonight. There's practically smoke coming out my ears from all the thinking I've had to do."


You need to learn how to type without thinking.
 
Hm. Do we have a lot of Southerners in here? I thought this would be controvercial, dammit.
 
I need to be able to plug my brain into the keyboard, so it can type out all my brilliant comebacks without me having to think hard on how exactly to phrase them.
 
Okay, let me get this cleared up right now: Sandia, male or female?

The name says female, but the Calvin and the writing style says male.
 
Sandia said:
Hm. Do we have a lot of Southerners in here? I thought this would be controvercial, dammit.

We do.. but the only one posting at the moment is Sillyman (alabama) and he's sane.
 
Pyper said:
Okay, let me get this cleared up right now: Sandia, male or female?

The name says female, but the Calvin and the writing style says male.


I'm very proudly male.

But don't tell Never that, please.
 
Damn, I'm good. I've never missed. :D

Why not tell Never? Are you masquerading as one of them lezbinns to gain her affections?
 
Pyper:
The name says female, but the Calvin and the writing style says male.

How is his writing style male?
What's a female writing style?
 
Never said:
Pyper:
The name says female, but the Calvin and the writing style says male.

How is his writing style male?
What's a female writing style?

I can't actually give you any hard details...it's just a vibe you get. I've always been able to spot what gender someone is by their writing voice.
 
Pyper said:


I can't actually give you any hard details...it's just a vibe you get. I've always been able to spot what gender someone is by their writing voice.

I can do a female voice. Fact, it prolly comes easier than the male one. I only sound male when I'm Exagerating for Effect. Or when I'm talking politics.
 
Pyper:
"I can't actually give you any hard details...it's just a vibe you get. I've always been able to spot what gender someone is by their writing voice."


Damn, I want to know. Several people claim they can tell but no one can tell me how or why.

Rubyfruit,
I think he's following that advice. He's a great guy though and I sort of feel bad about him stalking me. There are a bunch of straight or bi women on this site that would flip if a guy like Sandia stalked them.
 
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