We are fucked!! If this isn't a good reason to be careful about voting for President,

The Heretic

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/10/AR2005091001053.html

Pentagon Revises Nuclear Strike Plan
Strategy Includes Preemptive Use Against Banned Weapons

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, September 11, 2005; Page A01

The Pentagon has drafted a revised doctrine for the use of nuclear weapons that envisions commanders requesting presidential approval to use them to preempt an attack by a nation or a terrorist group using weapons of mass destruction. The draft also includes the option of using nuclear arms to destroy known enemy stockpiles of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons.

The document, written by the Pentagon's Joint Chiefs staff but not yet finally approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, would update rules and procedures governing use of nuclear weapons to reflect a preemption strategy first announced by the Bush White House in December 2002. The strategy was outlined in more detail at the time in classified national security directives.

At a White House briefing that year, a spokesman said the United States would "respond with overwhelming force" to the use of weapons of mass destruction against the United States, its forces or allies, and said "all options" would be available to the president.

The draft, dated March 15, would provide authoritative guidance for commanders to request presidential approval for using nuclear weapons, and represents the Pentagon's first attempt to revise procedures to reflect the Bush preemption doctrine. A previous version, completed in 1995 during the Clinton administration, contains no mention of using nuclear weapons preemptively or specifically against threats from weapons of mass destruction.

Titled "Doctrine for Joint Nuclear Operations" and written under the direction of Air Force Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the draft document is unclassified and available on a Pentagon Web site. It is expected to be signed within a few weeks by Air Force Lt. Gen. Norton A. Schwartz, director of the Joint Staff, according to Navy Cmdr. Dawn Cutler, a public affairs officer in Myers's office. Meanwhile, the draft is going through final coordination with the military services, the combatant commanders, Pentagon legal authorities and Rumsfeld's office, Cutler said in a written statement.

A "summary of changes" included in the draft identifies differences from the 1995 doctrine, and says the new document "revises the discussion of nuclear weapons use across the range of military operations."

The first example for potential nuclear weapon use listed in the draft is against an enemy that is using "or intending to use WMD" against U.S. or allied, multinational military forces or civilian populations.

Another scenario for a possible nuclear preemptive strike is in case of an "imminent attack from adversary biological weapons that only effects from nuclear weapons can safely destroy."

That and other provisions in the document appear to refer to nuclear initiatives proposed by the administration that Congress has thus far declined to fully support.

Last year, for example, Congress refused to fund research toward development of nuclear weapons that could destroy biological or chemical weapons materials without dispersing them into the atmosphere.

The draft document also envisions the use of atomic weapons for "attacks on adversary installations including WMD, deep, hardened bunkers containing chemical or biological weapons."

But Congress last year halted funding of a study to determine the viability of the Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator warhead (RNEP) -- commonly called the bunker buster -- that the Pentagon has said is needed to attack hardened, deeply buried weapons sites.

The Joint Staff draft doctrine explains that despite the end of the Cold War, proliferation of weapons of mass destruction "raises the danger of nuclear weapons use." It says that there are "about thirty nations with WMD programs" along with "nonstate actors [terrorists] either independently or as sponsored by an adversarial state."

To meet that situation, the document says that "responsible security planning requires preparation for threats that are possible, though perhaps unlikely today."


To deter the use of weapons of mass destruction against the United States, the Pentagon paper says preparations must be made to use nuclear weapons and show determination to use them "if necessary to prevent or retaliate against WMD use."

The draft says that to deter a potential adversary from using such weapons, that adversary's leadership must "believe the United States has both the ability and will to pre-empt or retaliate promptly with responses that are credible and effective." The draft also notes that U.S. policy in the past has "repeatedly rejected calls for adoption of 'no first use' policy of nuclear weapons since this policy could undermine deterrence."

Rep. Ellen Tauscher (D-Calif.), a member of the House Armed Services Committee who has been a leading opponent of the bunker-buster program, said yesterday the draft was "apparently a follow-through on their nuclear posture review and they seem to bypass the idea that Congress had doubts about the program." She added that members "certainly don't want the administration to move forward with a [nuclear] preemption policy" without hearings, closed door if necessary.

A spokesman for Sen. John W. Warner (R-Va.), chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said yesterday the panel has not yet received a copy of the draft.

Hans M. Kristensen, a consultant to the Natural Resources Defense Council, who discovered the document on the Pentagon Web site, said yesterday that it "emphasizes the need for a robust nuclear arsenal ready to strike on short notice including new missions."

Kristensen, who has specialized for more than a decade in nuclear weapons research, said a final version of the doctrine was due in August but has not yet appeared.

"This doctrine does not deliver on the Bush administration pledge of a reduced role for nuclear weapons," Kristensen said. "It provides justification for contentious concepts not proven and implies the need for RNEP."

One reason for the delay may be concern about raising publicly the possibility of preemptive use of nuclear weapons, or concern that it might interfere with attempts to persuade Congress to finance the bunker buster and other specialized nuclear weapons.

In April, Rumsfeld appeared before the Senate Armed Services panel and asked for the bunker buster study to be funded. He said the money was for research and not to begin production on any particular warhead. "The only thing we have is very large, very dirty, big nuclear weapons," Rumsfeld said. "It seems to me studying it [the RNEP] makes all the sense in the world."
 
Yeah, I saw that the other day. It goes beyond pre-emptive action


... way beyond appalling too.

It's been on the list of "oh shit!!" actions of the administration.
 
Operation: Sea of Glass

The Tehran Tour

Coming in September 2006!

:devil:
 
This admin scares the shit outta me. How many more 'oops''s can we take? Have they been RIGHT about anything? I was thinking this morning while walking the dog about all the 'mistakes' they have made over the past 5 years.... have they gotten ANYTHING right? I need to be reminded if so. Anyone?
 
Such a posture (which presupposes two rational adversaries who both stand to lose a great deal in a WMD exchange) is an excellent deterrent to state-based terrorism. I'd be nervous about playing into the hands of stateless fanatics who would like nothing better than to trigger an apocalypse.
 
To put this into context, take a look at the Roberts confirmation hearing happening right now.

Leahy is asking about powers for war and the law.
 
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ruminator said:
Yeah, I saw that the other day. It goes beyond pre-emptive action


... way beyond appalling too.

It's been on the list of "oh shit!!" actions of the administration.
If people freaked over Reagan's joke of bombing the USSR, they ought to go off the deep end about Bush having the ability to pre-emptively use nuclear weapons against anyone who might use WMDs against us.

The 'nuke em and take the gas' crowd will be happy though.

Reagan just postured - and it worked well - but Bush has the bad tendency to follow through with a threat. If he has the power he'll use it. Not to mention any wacko President who gets into office in the future.

An extremely dangerous thing to allow.
 
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rosco rathbone said:
Such a posture (which presupposes two rational adversaries who both stand to lose a great deal in a WMD exchange) is an excellent deterrent to state-based terrorism. I'd be nervous about playing into the hands of stateless fanatics who would like nothing better than to trigger an apocalypse.
If it were just posturing then that would be one thing, but Bush is less a posturer and more a doer. In this case it is very wrong to give him the power to follow through.

And, as you said, the terrorists would like nothing more than such an exchange - they are crazy.
 
The Heretic said:
I people freaked over Reagan's joke of bombing the USSR, they ought to go off the deep end about Bush having the ability to pre-emptively use nuclear weapons against anyone who might use WMDs against us.

The 'nuke em and take the gas' crowd will be happy though.

Reagan just postured - and it worked well - but Bush has the bad tendency to follow through with a threat. If he has the power he'll use it. Not to mention any wacko President who gets into office in the future.

An extremely dangerous thing to allow.


I've read in some other places that the use will need less justification than that.

I think it would also apply to cases of pre-emptive action for strategic positioning concerning resources of national security....like oil reserves.
 
ruminator said:
I think it would also apply to cases of pre-emptive action for strategic positioning concerning resources of national security....like oil reserves.
Another compelling reason to start drilling in ANWR, no?
 
The Heretic said:
If it were just posturing then that would be one thing, but Bush is less a posturer and more a doer. In this case it is very wrong to give him the power to follow through.

And, as you said, the terrorists would like nothing more than such an exchange - they are crazy.

the fact that they're stateless kinda gives them an edge, doesn't it?

i say we give al quaida a state.

then we'd have a target to bomb.

*nod nod*

/erm, end strange joke.

quite seriously though, that is incredibly alarming.

it freaked me out to read about the president walking about with "the football" every day, with the ability to launch a nuclear attack at any time.

this...increase in it, is disturbing.
 
sticky_keyboard said:
Another compelling reason to start drilling in ANWR, no?


As long as it's in conjunction with serious upgrades to refinery capacity and scheduling among other issues.
 
ruminator said:
As long as it's in conjunction with serious upgrades to refinery capacity and scheduling among other issues.
Well stated. (When did you come over to the dark side with those of us who have been saying this for years?)
 
ruminator said:
Yeah, I saw that the other day. It goes beyond pre-emptive action


... way beyond appalling too.

It's been on the list of "oh shit!!" actions of the administration.
"Speak softly but carry a big stick."
--Theodore Roosevelt

There ain't a bigger stick anywhere. How'd you like to be a ciminal mastermind, living in a cave off battery power, thinking that maybe this guy is just wacky enough to vaporize you to learn that there ain't any virgins wating?
 
sticky_keyboard said:
"Speak softly but carry a big stick."
--Theodore Roosevelt

There ain't a bigger stick anywhere. How'd you like to be a ciminal mastermind, living in a cave off battery power, thinking that maybe this guy is just wacky enough to vaporize you to learn that there ain't any virgins wating?


Among Thomas's disclosures: "Bush can be petulant about dissent; he equates disagreement with disloyalty. After five years in office, he is surrounded largely by people who agree with him. . .

Now They Tell Us
 
Notwithstanding how much an idiot Bush is and how much he scares me I dont think he would attack a country without Congressional approval especially using nukes. Nixon attacked Cambodia and Laos and look what it cost him. It was a factor in impeachment process and led to Congress cutting off all funds for Vietnam War which ended that debacle finally. A lot of us dont recall it but Congress did stupidly give Bush a blank check in Iraq. If Bush launched nukes against someone without Congress approval he would be impeached and convicted within a week. No one no matter how much a partisan could defend him. So Bush may not be smart enough to recognize this but his handlers who act as his super ego would reign him in. Too bad he did not have people to reign him in when he was destroying his brain with coke and booze. If that had occurred he would not need handlers to safe him from himself now.
 
tim66 said:
Notwithstanding how much an idiot Bush is and how much he scares me I dont think he would attack a country without Congressional approval especially using nukes. Nixon attacked Cambodia and Laos and look what it cost him. It was a factor in impeachment process and led to Congress cutting off all funds for Vietnam War which ended that debacle finally. A lot of us dont recall it but Congress did stupidly give Bush a blank check in Iraq. If Bush launched nukes against someone without Congress approval he would be impeached and convicted within a week. No one no matter how much a partisan could defend him. So Bush may not be smart enough to recognize this but his handlers who act as his super ego would reign him in. Too bad he did not have people to reign him in when he was destroying his brain with coke and booze. If that had occurred he would not need handlers to safe him from himself now.

...unless his handler's handlers wanted to benefit from that action and considered him expendable. I noticed you mentioned impeachment after the fact. Corporations are reaping millions in profits already on the tragedy of the hurricane and that tragedy was capable of less catastrophic loss. Sometimes the handlers look the other way.
 
tim66 said:
Notwithstanding how much an idiot Bush is and how much he scares me I dont think he would attack a country without Congressional approval especially using nukes. Nixon attacked Cambodia and Laos and look what it cost him. It was a factor in impeachment process and led to Congress cutting off all funds for Vietnam War which ended that debacle finally. A lot of us dont recall it but Congress did stupidly give Bush a blank check in Iraq. If Bush launched nukes against someone without Congress approval he would be impeached and convicted within a week. No one no matter how much a partisan could defend him. So Bush may not be smart enough to recognize this but his handlers who act as his super ego would reign him in. Too bad he did not have people to reign him in when he was destroying his brain with coke and booze. If that had occurred he would not need handlers to safe him from himself now.
And if his handlers don't care what happens to him? If they feel that it is in their interests to nuke Iran or Syria? What happens now that Bush is in his last term? He can't be re-elected - does he need to worry about ramifications?

What happens when we elect the next president? Any guarantee that he/she will listen to their handlers? Any guarantee that the handlers will be sane?

No, I prefer that the President not have the power to pre-emptively use nuclear weapons - at least not without some kind of oversight. I don't believe that there are that many situations where pre-emptive use is justified or necessary.
 
ruminator said:
Corporations are reaping millions in profits already on the tragedy of the hurricane and that tragedy was capable of less catastrophic loss.
CONGRESS just gave all of them a $52 billion blank check, but the 11 guys who had the balls to vote against it are the ones being villified.
 
There is not a whole lot that is new in the revised plan. The United States has never had a a no first use policy in regard to nuclear weapons. The element that has changed is the new threat to US security from terrorist groups that are not soveriegn nations. US nuclear policy has also always held that an attack on the US or it's allies with any weapon of mass destruction (bio, chem, nuclear) would be answered with a nuclear response.
All this paper does is give clear parameters for the nuclear chain of command and what constitutes a "proper" target. As an aside, no matter how much we deplore and fear nuclear weapons, they are here, they are not going anywhere and the Pentagon will constantly update and change it's order for battle concerning the use of them.
 
The Heretic said:
No, I prefer that the President not have the power to pre-emptively use nuclear weapons - at least not without some kind of oversight. I don't believe that there are that many situations where pre-emptive use is justified or necessary.
I prefer that you not take that option off the table. It should scare the shit out of the bad guys more than our own citizens. If you take that option off the table, you might feel better but the bad guys will be ecstatic over our weakness.
 
sticky_keyboard said:
I prefer that you not take that option off the table. It should scare the shit out of the bad guys more than our own citizens. If you take that option off the table, you might feel better but the bad guys will be ecstatic over our weakness.


No, because this reasoning will cause the terrorists to locate in areas where he would be unlikely to use that type of strike...


...here
 
sticky_keyboard said:
CONGRESS just gave all of them a $52 billion blank check, but the 11 guys who had the balls to vote against it are the ones being villified.


Who are the ones doing the villifying?
 
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