watching the bodybuilder eat

[Maria2394]

Okay, here is the poem that Senna and I have been referring to.

Like he said, it is short and not very complicated, so perhaps it will be a good one to start with.

There are a few constructive comments on the PC portion of the submitted poem, I will post them here if it will help.

I am not used to doing this, but I am not asking anyone to go easy on me, but to have patience. I am not familiar with many of the terms you guys use when you work on a poem, so I might ask for explanations.

I dont want the poem to be much longer than it already is though. My thinking was,

he is a bodybuilder, okay, cut through the fat and get to the muscle of the matter. That is how I began, bare bones. eek, awful metaphor.

anyway
~~~


watching the bodybuilder eat

He has fruit at first break.
I watch his lips and drool
as he chooses just the right place to bite.
Does he imagine the softness of the peach a lover
or merely a piece of food for consumption?
I can only wonder.
His cold oats at lunch baffle me
and how he likes tuna straight from the can.
This man makes me worry-
perhaps I haven't yet had
a real man.

 

[Cub4ucme]

I I am not familiar with many of the terms you guys use when you work on a poem, so I might ask for explanations.

Poetry Glossary:


http://www.poeticbyway.com/glossary2.html

 

[Maria2394]

Thank you, Andy



ps, I also welcome anything constructive that you have to offer.

 

[Maria2394]

watching the bodybuilder eat

He has fruit at first break


I watch his lips and drool

as he chooses just the right place to bite.

this word seems unnecessary, now that i think about it.

and there is **right**


as he chooses an appropriate
place for his first bite

Does he imagine the softness of the peach a lover

** I'm thinking, softenss is also fat, since the fact that peaches are soft does not need to be emphasized, but IS it important in any way? necessary to the poem?**

**I can only wonder.**

I can only wonder. It is the perspective of the writer, does the reader know I am wondering what the bodybuilder thinks? or is that even important?**

While I want it to be as "fat free" as possible, I don't want it to turn it into a haiku...

His cold oats at lunch baffle me

** now, the colds oats just looked gross, yeah, that baffled me, lol**
and how he likes tuna straight from the can.

** what about like? there MUST be a better word...perhaps, enjoys,


This man makes me worry-
perhaps I haven't yet had
a real man.

~~~

watching the bodybuilder eat

He has fruit at first break.
I watch his lips and drool
as he chooses the right place to bite.
Does he imagine the softness of the peach a lover
or a piece of food for consumption?
I can only wonder.
His cold oats at lunch baffle me
and how he enjoys tuna straight from the can.


This man makes me worry-
perhaps I haven't yet had
a real man.


okay, here, well, the BB cannot make me do anything, bad choice of word, once again. perhaps,

~~ causes me to worry?~~

line breaks are probably the part of a poem I spend the most time on. I know they are important, but I think I should leave that adjustment until I have decided on which words I want to place and where I want to place them

 

[Maria2394]

watching the bodybuilder eat

He has fruit at first break


I watch his lips and drool

as he chooses just the right place to bite.

this word seems unnecessary, now that i think about it.


Does he imagine the softness of the peach a lover

** I'm thinking, softenss is also fat, since the fact that peaches are soft does not need to be emphasized, but IS it important in any way? necessary to the poem?**

**I can only wonder.**

I can only wonder. It is the perspective of the writer, does teh reader know I am wondering about waht the bodybuilder thinks? or is that even important?**

While I want it to be as "fat free" as possible, I don't want it to turn it into a haiku...

His cold oats at lunch baffle me

** now, the colds oats just looked gorss, yeah, that baffled me, lol**
and how he likes tuna straight from the can.

** what about like? there MUSt be a better word...perhaps, enjoys,


This man makes me worry-
perhaps I haven't yet had
a real man.

 

[annaswirls]

Maria, your commenting on your poem and commenting on your comments reminds me of someone.... I think I will have to bring SeattleRain out to work with you on this poem or maybe she and Norma can chat it up.

When the boys go to bed.... I will be back

 

[Maria2394]

Maria, your commenting on your poem and commenting on your comments reminds me of someone.... I think I will have to bring SeattleRain out to work with you on this poem or maybe she and Norma can chat it up.

When the boys go to bed.... I will be back

LOL!!

are you callin' me CRAZY??

I Love you Annaswirls. Sure, send Seattle over heer and she and Normal can go to it.

But hey, that is my process. see why I dont participate in the other critique threads?



but seriously, I would love it if you have any suggestions.

m

 

[Angeline]

Here are a few suggestions. Food for thought, so to speak.

If it helps great. If it's not where you want the poem to go, no worries.




watching the bodybuilder eat

He has fruit at first break.
I watch his lips and drool
as he chooses just the right place to bite. where to bite? something more specific. sorry I'm brain dead from work
Does he imagine the softness of the peach a lover
or merely a piece of food for consumption?
why the softness of a peach? is he eating something else (it's not clear from line 1)? and why imagine if he's actually eating it? Maybe change line 1 to "He eats a peach at first break" and then you can say something like "Does he savor its soft skin/imagine his lover/or merely refuel"
I can only wonder.
His cold oats at lunch baffle me
and how he likes tuna straight from the can. I'd put a period after "me" and then make the next line a declarative: "He likes tuna straight from the can."
This man makes me worry-Here I'd say "He" instead of "this man," so "man" in the last line has more impact.
perhaps I haven't yet had
a real man.

 

[normal jean]

Thank you, Angeline

Those are all good suggestions. He usually had selection of fruit, but watching him eat the peach was the most interesting.

I never considered how use of "man" twice would diminish the importance and the second usage is most important. You have given me some good ideas to mull over, and i am grateful, and I'm am actually excited, thinking how much this piece will benefit from this exercize ( not to mention how much I am learning. LIke I said..good teachers here.

oh, and the way you used the "S" sound ( Does he savor its soft skin)

gives the peach a softness I would never have to mention, doesnt it. Thats really a good idea.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Okay, here is the poem [...]
~~~

watching the bodybuilder eat

​

I would omit "eat" in the title.

I'll write more later. I am glad that Maria gave us a chance to work on her poem.

Poems are like places on the ground in the mountains. We would like them to be as high as possible (but on the ground or else they are hot air, not poems). Some of them are at the top of high mountains and we can only admire them. Some are on the top of low mountains or just hills. We may see why they are not too high but they cannot be improved, they only can be replaced by different poems. And other poems may be up high there but still on the slope rather than on the top. They can be very good, while they can still be moved higher. And so on.

Regards,

Senna Jawa

 

[normal jean]

Senna

I am glad you suggested that we work on i t. I have neglected my poetry for so long...

one question- ( just one for now)

why omit "eat" from the title? and what do you suggest in its place?



m

 

[Senna Jawa]

Senna

I am glad you suggested that we work on i t. I have neglected my poetry for so long...

one question- ( just one for now)

why omit "eat" from the title? and what do you suggest in its place?



m

Simply omit it (in my opinion; no need to replace it with anything). I have to run. I'll come back here soon.

Regards,

Senna Jawa

 

[Senna Jawa]

why omit "eat" from the title?

When you are a preacher, teacher, academic lecturer or military instructor then you should follow the excellent military rule:

1. say what you are about to say
2. say it
3. say what you have said

But you are a poet. It is enough that later in the poem you are describing the breakfast snack and lunch. It's more interesting when you do not say "eat" in the title; it's predictable and somewhat boring when you do.

It's better to keep the options open in the title. Allow the reader to think that the lyrical subject is interested in the whole man, not just in his eating customs (be them culinary or sexual).

"To eat" in the sexual connotation is virtually a dead metaphor, almost like hands of the clock or face of the clock (which are dead kennings rather than dead metaphors). Indeed, in the core English there is no other more direct expression for oral sex (cunnigulus). As a rule, there is not much poetry in using dead metaphors, and this is true in this case too.

Hey, Maria, soon you will hate me like Anna

Best regards,

Senna Jawa

 

[normal jean]

Hi SJ

what you said here--
It's better to keep the options open in the title.

absolutely right. After I read your post, initially, my wheels began turning, lol. I looked at it from angles I hadnt pondered before.

Why tell the audience that he is eating? Let them open the work and see what he is doing for himself. I agree.

Sorry, but I disagree with you on a major point--

I doubt that Anna hates you and I know I will never hate you. I am virtualy certain that you did not offer to help me just so I might hate you

Thank you for your time and wisdom


m

 

[Senna Jawa]

I looked at it <the title> from angles I hadnt pondered before.

Also, Isn't that "eat" at the end a tinge awkward (inelegant) English wise? It's your, not mine, language, so you will tell me

Regards,

Senna Jawa

 

[annaswirls]

Maria, I am going to go through this and clip snip and ask, okay? I do not have anesthesia so bite onto something hard.


First of all, I liked the image of watching him, like an animal in the zoo. Observing his foriegn ways.


A few things, first, how do I know that his ways are foriegn, maybe you like tuna from a can and dry oats, maybe put something in there that gives more of a value to the food. Put more distance between where you are coming from and where he is. Maybe I Am getting this all wrong.


I am also not sure why you are worried. At first and second and maybe third, I was thinking you were worried about him, but then I thought, no she is worried she has never had a man like him? I was having trouble reconciling the last two lines.

~~~


watching the bodybuilder eat

He has fruit at first break.
I watch his lips and drool This came across to me as you watch his lips and drool, like his drool.... I am guessing that you mean you watch his lips and you drool.... maybe put the drool on the next line to separate it?
as he chooses just the right place to bite.
Does he imagine the softness of the peach a lover
or merely a piece of food for consumption?
I can only wonder.
His cold oats at lunch baffle me
and how he likes tuna straight from the can. maybe put the tuna up with the cold oats, that way they can both baffle you, keep them together
at lunch his cold oats tuna straight from the can
baffle me
.

This man makes me worry- as I said, I am not sure why you are worried-- I think you need more gusto in your description of him, to make him this "real man, that is somehow unlike what you are accustomed to.

perhaps I haven't yet had
a real man.

Ange gave some great specific suggestions as have others. I think you can simplify the language even more in this poem.

You are a brave woman for putting up a poem for critique, it is why you have grown so much, open mind, open possibilities. Thank you for giving us this chance-- I can't wait to see what you come up with!

~Anna

 

[annaswirls]

Senna, I do not hate you Mister Fussbudget I was angry with you for about 4 mintues over your comments on my comments and you got to my post before I thought twice and edited it out

Often, I do not have the time or inclination to follow through with discussions, and I think I must have dropped one of ours back in a thread that was getting ugly beyond my level of tolerance.

Please, back to Maria's poem

~anna

 

[Maria2394]

Oh, Anna!! I am laughing so hard. Yeah, I meant that I was the one drooling, but that image that you gave me, turned my sexy bodybuilder man into slobbering caveman

That is what I am appreciating the most, is what you all see in what I have written. It is all valid, just sometimes it's so funny. Now that I read it like you did, hell yes, that word needs to go. In fact, Eve suggested that it needed to go when she left a PC on that poem.

thanks again!!

Senna, putting "eat: at the end, yeah, probably better phrasing would have been ( watchinging the BB as he eats" ) even better, your first suggestion about leaving that word out of the title.

but my mind is saying, go to bed, go to bed. I will however indulge in my guilty pleasure Daaaaay- vid Letterman for a few minutes at least

hugs to you all for helping me. I havent wanted to crawl in a hole yet, lol, so I guess it is a good thing


m

 

[Cub4ucme]

watching the bodybuilder eat

He has fruit at first break.
I watch his lips and drool
as he chooses just the right place to bite.
Does he imagine the softness of the peach a lover
or merely a piece of food for consumption?
I can only wonder.
His cold oats at lunch baffle me
and how he likes tuna straight from the can.
This man makes me worry-
perhaps I haven't yet had
a real man.

maria

I'm fine with eat in the title. I would have found
a more inventive title to begin with but, having
placed "eat" at the end of it is of no harm.

It doesn't detract from the title at all.
It simply states what the author was
writing about.

It's such a small nit anyway.

I offer you my opinion for reworking:

"Watching the Bodybuilder Eat"

___________________________________________________

I drool watching his lips
his selection for first bite.
Does he imagine this peach
the soft fuzz of a past lover,
or just a staple for existence?


I'm baffled by his lunch of cold oats,
his choice of tuna from a can.

In my discomfort I think;
perhaps I haven't had a real man.

_____________________________________________________

The first line is writtin awkwardly, and tells us nothing.
I'd delete it. Any poem that starts out without substance
tends not to invite a reader further into the poem. The
first line of a poem should never be one that takes away
from the poem. It's a akin to heading east and taking
your first step to the west.

I think the second line has more impact written
as I have it above. The keyword in the line
is definately "drooling" so the placement
of the word in the line is of great significance.

In writing poetry it is ussually best to express
youself with a sense for impact. One of the
most effective means to do that is to avoid
the usage of unecessay words. The concept
is to attain a level of thought provoking
energy that builds in the mind of the reader
from beginning to end.

I have rewritten you poem; NOT as a means to
change the essence of your points. It is a
subjective take on my opinion of what your
intent was. I am merely attempting to show
you how the same thoughts can be expressed
in a more compact way. One should always
attempt to write free verse that does
not come across as a short story that
could just as easily be put into paragraph form.

Getting back to the title.
I think if you tried to be more inventive you
might consider something like,

"Lunch with a Weightlifter"



All subjective, of course.

best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

"To eat" in the sexual connotation is virtually a dead metaphor, almost like hands of the clock or face of the clock
Best regards,

Senna Jawa

Fodder!

The connection of food to sex is not close to dead in poetry.

There are still many different ways to metaphor the connection
that would work extremely well in poetry.

This type of metaphor hits home in contemporary poetry
being published on a consistent basis.

I would not for a second rule out the connection in a metaphoric
sense. Now, the wording of such a metaphor has to be well
chosen as to not appear as if you are stating the obvious
in an obvious way.

You have to be very selective when reviewing the critques
offered by others. It's not always wise to listen to an
educated person speaking on a subject where they lack
the knowledge and background on the subject matter they
are commenting on.

Almost anything one can think of has been thought of
and written about. Metaphor becomes less effective
when it falls dead on a page due to low impact and
over use.

The correlation of eating to sex does not fall dead on
a page, nor has it been overused to the point where
readers of poetry are done with it.

If that were the case you wouldn't find it much in
publised poetry these days. It connects us all
to our senses and invites thought. It's all a matter
of word usage and keen expression. In no way should
it be compared to cliche.

These opinions are not subjective. They are based
on the foundations of knowledge and experience.

Take them for what they are. It's always the poets
choice to accept or throw away any advice given.

best,
andy

 

[Liar]

Almost anything one can think of has been thought of
and written about. Metaphor becomes less effective
when it falls dead on a page due to low impact and
over use.

On the other hand, even a chich'e has it's uses. I think it would depend on your purpose for using it. A dead metaphor, either in the poetic sense or in the linguistic sense, is a very good choice is what you're after is easily digested writing. ("Digested" writing, there's a dead metaphor for y'all. Or "Dead" metaphor, for that matter.)

When the ideas themselves are not too locked to the language, a little familiar eloquence can be the perfect lube for easier textual penetration. It all depends on what you're trying to insert and how experienced the reader is in taking it. (How's that for a metaphor? )

 

[Cub4ucme]

On the other hand, even a chich'e has it's uses. I think it would depend on your purpose for using it. A dead metaphor, either in the poetic sense or in the linguistic sense, is a very good choice is what you're after is easily digested writing. ("Digested" writing, there's a dead metaphor for y'all. Or "Dead" metaphor, for that matter.)

When the ideas themselves are not too locked to the language, a little familiar eloquence can be the perfect lube for easier textual penetration. It all depends on what you're trying to insert and how experienced the reader is in taking it. (How's that for a metaphor? )

Hard to argue much of your post.
That said, there is something worth pointing out.
Cliche tells you something that is quite obvious. It is a direct
statement that implies a predictable result.
It doesn't leave much room for reader interpretation
or something more than what it clearly states.
For the most part cliche is redundant and over used.

Metaphor has the inate power to allow
for multiple interpretations.
It's thought provoking and a great tool for any poet.

It's ALWAYS best for writers of poetry
to avoid cliche unless the subject of the poem is CLICHE,
or the poet is skilled enough to understand how to use it
with some sense of poetic integrity.

Poetry is such a huge word that takes up far more space
than six letters.

In that broad sense I agree with you. I wouldn't however, recommend
it as a staple means for writing poetry.

best,
andy

 

[MyNecroticSnail]

Hard to argue much of your post.
That said, there is something worth pointing out.
Cliche tells you something that is quite obvious. It is a direct
statement that implies a predictable result.
It doesn't leave much room for reader interpretation
or something more than what it clearly states.
For the most part cliche is redundant and over used.

Metaphor has the inate power to allow
for multiple interpretations.
It's thought provoking and a great tool for any poet.

It's ALWAYS best for writers of poetry
to avoid cliche unless the subject of the poem is CLICHE,
or the poet is skilled enough to understand how to use it
with some sense of poetic integrity.

Poetry is such a huge word that takes up far more space
than six letters.

In that broad sense I agree with you. I wouldn't however, recommend
it as a staple means for writing poetry.

best,
andy

Well, it is tough to figure you out. I agree with much of what you say, you don't back down, you counter.
It did look like you were in serious attack mode earlier.
Should be interesting.
yes
best to you for these type of posts
MNS

 

[Maria2394]

Oh my!

may I say something? I realize that "eat" is a poor, overused metaphor for oral sex, however, I was not using it in that way here, and had no intent that it be perceived that way.

A little background?


We ( hubby and I) were working a construction job at Lake Murray Dam. I wrote about that in my blog posts a while back.

The bodybuilder ( which isnt the same as a weighligfter, ) would always eat alone, and me, being so voyeuristic, I watched him every day. He always had the same
thing for lunch, every day for months

Anna, I like tuna from a can, plain, but I usually put it on a plate. I see where that description might not make sense to someome else who also likes it that way.

He always seemed lonely, but he always looked so content and graceful, in a way, nourishing his beautiful body.



andy, I love this rework of that part--

I'm baffled by his lunch of cold oats,
his choice of tuna from a can.

Thank you for participating.

I have a lot of really good suggestions to work with here. I appreciate your ( collective) efforts

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

M, I kind of like the idea of your title simply being "Watching The Bodybuilder" and then your poem going in a totally unexpected direction. As for all those dirty minds that read "eat" to mean oral sex - tut tut!