Wasted emotions?

[McKenna]

Not sure the two are mutually exclusive.

Wanting to rob a bank is not a crime; robbing a bank is. Thus the difference between feeling something, and acting on it.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Not sure the two are mutually exclusive.

How do you mean?

 

[rgraham666]

Not sure the two are mutually exclusive.

Being angry is not necessarily bad. Bouncing someone's head off the sidewalk because you're angry with them is bad.

 

[SeaCat]

All very valid points so far. I'm kind of liking this thread.

Maybe we should define hatred though. To me, without digging out the Websters, Hatred is an unreasoning, uncontrollable anger towards someone or something. (Much like I once felt towards a certain group of people.)

Jealousy? That's a harder one for me to define, but I think several people have already hit upon it. It is an unreasoning wanting. Whether that wanting is for control or for posessions to me doesn't matter. It again is unreasoning.

Cat

 

[The_Fool]

This probably is a waste, I know, but I like hatred.

It's focusing, motivating, encouraging, and even rewarding. It's a negative emotion and a dangerous emotion, but I would be a liar if I said I didn't accomplish many things I'm proud of because of simple hatred of a thing or person or people.

I say this with anger. Which is related to hatred. Sometimes it can be a compelling driver. Some slight Machiavellian overtones here. The question is...Is it the right end?

 

[BigFatMeat]

Wanting to rob a bank is not a crime; robbing a bank is. Thus the difference between feeling something, and acting on it.

But the action can't exist without the desire to do it, right? That's why they aren't completely different from each other.

 

[English Lady]

I don't get hate, and I'm not sure i get jealousy either. I'm not sure I hate anyone or that I've ever experienced hatred -lucky me, I guess. Jealousy I know, I've suffered that a few times but I get over it pretty quickly. I think they're emotions and by that very being they're not wasted. I mean, it makes you realise how much you love your partner when a stirring of jealousy hits you, it's how you use that which makes a difference. I really can't speak about hatred bcause I hoenstly don't understand it or feel I've ever felt it.

 

[rgraham666]

One of the biggest problems with anger and hatred is that it is always directed against 'the other'. People rarely get angry at, or hate, someone they understand, who exists within the bounds of what they consider 'human'.

Which is why these emotions are so dangerous. They destroy the empathy required to do good. When people get moved into the category of 'the other', are no longer 'human', it's a very quick and easy decision to hurt them or destroy them.

 

[impressive]

I don't see jealousy as an extension of fear. I see it more as an undeniable reminder of your own inadequacies.

I.e., fear of exposure (of those inadequacies). It has been postulated that fear is the ONLY emotion. Not saying I agree, but it does spark some interesting debate.

I'm not prone to jealousy. Envy, yes. That's a motivator.

Hatred is so multi-faceted that I'm not sure I could capture it in thousands of words. It's very rare that I feel true hatred, but when I do I know it's bad. It is always reserved for those that have absolutely no regard for the lives of others and have no compunction about using any and all power they have to harm/ruin others around them.

I'm not sure I've ever experienced true hatred, even for those types you mention. For them, I typically feel ... regret, pity, sorrow. Now, I might think the world would be a better place without them in it, but that doesn't mean I hate them (or that I'm gonna act on that opinion).

Anger, on the other hand, I try to use to my advantage -- again, as a motivator.

 

[McKenna]

But the action can't exist without the desire to do it, right? That's why they aren't completely different from each other.

But can the desire "to do" exist without the action? I believe your use of "mutually exclusive" might be a bit off.

Mutually Exclusive: Unable to be both true at the same time; necessitating a choice between mutually exclusive possibilities, 'either' and 'or', 'this' or 'that'.

What you might be suggesting is that the relationship is symbiotic, that it is a relationship of mutual dependence or mutual benefit, in which case you've understood my point correctly. An action cannot exist without the desire to do so, but just because one feels the need to do something, does not mean an action must be completed. I believe that's what separates humans from the rest of the animal kingdom --our ability to cogitate and reason before making a decision rather than acting on impulse.

 

[Liar]

Amazingly you can control emotions, or at least some of them.

How or why I don't know. Maybe it's the way in which you approach life, or maybe it's in the way your mind is wired.

Some can and some can't I guess. I can't control emotions per se. But I can cntrol the magnitude of them. Suppress or enhance them. And I'm pretty good at controlling the actions based on them. But I can't choose to not hate, or love, or fear.

 

[Recidiva]

I don't think they're wasted. Although I don't indulge in hatred, I certainly would if someone attacked my children. I haven't been provoked into it often, but when I am, it's for a very good reason.

I enjoy jealousy and possessiveness tempered with love, respect and loyalty. It gives me a visceral feeling of "MINE" that I enjoy.

 

[gauchecritic]

I think EL has the right of it;

I think they're emotions and by that very being they're not wasted.

The usefulness of an emotion comes from how we re-direct or sublimate it. The emotion itself is (like most things in the brain) a chemical imbalance, depending on who we are we either strive to maintain that imbalance or strive to smooth out the imbalance. i.e attack the imposer of hatred or attack our own motivations.

Some have said that hatred/jealousy is generally aimed at other people. This is abundantly not the case. We can easily hate anti-semitism, nuclear power or multi-national corporations and thankfully (although this is probably something for another thread) we can stand back and let someone else do the necessary: protest, demonstrate, outshout etc.

To my mind it is the harbouring of grudges, hatred, jealousy which make an emotion wasted. You are letting others define or constrict the way you live your life.


Angelo: the three primary colours in physics (how nature makes them) are red, blue and green.

 

[amicus]

The Amicus has relocated to Southern California in limbo at the moment, sans abode, sans computer, up to the nose in boogers and pooh from twelve hour days of minding three children under ten years of age and finding it challenging and at the same time, rewarding.

Been lurking occasionally for about a week but until now didn’t run across a thread that tickled the fancy.

This being the ‘Author’s Hangout’; populated by writers, one assumes
The gist of a discussion concerning hatred and jealousy would be directed in a professional direction and not a personal one.

Especially if one scribbles more than ‘wanker’ stories and attempts to create real characters will real human emotions, thoughts and desires.

Few take the time to consider the actual, ‘real’ meaning of words, or even the roots and premises of words such as human ‘emotions’, hatred, rage, anger and jealousy or possessiveness.

I have always thought it essential to ‘know’ with certainty, what one was speaking of before issuing conclusions as to meaning and purpose.

Ayn Rand wrote: “Emotions are automatic responses to previously made value judgments…”

e•mo•tion ( -m sh n) KEY

NOUN:
1. A mental state that arises spontaneously rather than through conscious effort and is often accompanied by physiological changes; a feeling: the emotions of joy, sorrow, reverence, hate, and love.
2. A state of mental agitation or disturbance: spoke unsteadily in a voice that betrayed his emotion. See Synonyms at feeling.
3. The part of the consciousness that involves feeling; sensibility: "The very essence of literature is the war between emotion and intellect" (Isaac Bashevis Singer).
________________________________________
ETYMOLOGY:
French émotion, from Old French, from esmovoir, to excite, from Vulgar Latin *exmov re : Latin ex-, ex- + Latin mov re, to move; see meu - in Indo-European roots

This is the definition of the term Hate
Hate (n.) To have a great aversion to, with a strong desire that evil should befall the person toward whom the feeling is directed; to dislike intensely; to detest; as, to hate one's enemies; to hate hypocrisy.

Hate (n.) To be very unwilling; followed by an infinitive, or a substantive clause with that; as, to hate to get into debt; to hate that anything should be wasted.

Hate (n.) To love less, relatively.

Hate (v.) Strong aversion coupled with desire that evil should befall the person toward whom the feeling is directed; as exercised toward things, intense dislike; hatred; detestation; -- opposed to love.


Source: OPTED v0.03 of Webster's Dictionary, from Project Gutenburg.

Dictionary Information: Definition Jealousy
Thesaurus: Jealousy
Description and Meaning: Jealousy
Jealousy (Jeal"ous*y) (?), n.; pl. Jealousies (#).
[ F. jalousie. See Jealous, and cf. Jalousie.]

The quality of being jealous; earnest concern or solicitude; painful apprehension of rivalship in cases nearly affecting one's happiness; painful suspicion of the faithfulness of husband, wife, or lover. "I was jealous for jealousy." Zech. viii. 2. "Jealousy is the . . . apprehension of superiority." Shenstone. "Whoever had qualities to alarm our jealousy, had excellence to deserve our fondness." Rambler.


jeal•ous (j l s) KEY

ADJECTIVE:
1. Fearful or wary of being supplanted; apprehensive of losing affection or position.
2.
a. Resentful or bitter in rivalry; envious: jealous of the success of others.
b. Inclined to suspect rivalry.
3. Having to do with or arising from feelings of envy, apprehension, or bitterness: jealous thoughts.
4. Vigilant in guarding something: We are jealous of our good name.
5. Intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity; autocratic: a jealous God.
________________________________________
ETYMOLOGY:
Middle English jelous, from Old French gelos, jealous, zealous, from Vulgar Latin *z l sus, from Late Latin z lus, zeal ; see zeal

OTHER FORMS:
jeal ous•ly (Adverb), jeal ous•ness (Noun)

SYNONYMS:
jealous , covetous , envious

These adjectives mean resentfully or painfully desirous of another's advantages: jealous of a friend's success; covetous of my neighbor's possessions; envious of their art collection.


e•mo•tion ( -m sh n) KEY

NOUN:
1. A mental state that arises spontaneously rather than through conscious effort and is often accompanied by physiological changes; a feeling: the emotions of joy, sorrow, reverence, hate, and love.
2. A state of mental agitation or disturbance: spoke unsteadily in a voice that betrayed his emotion. See Synonyms at feeling.
3. The part of the consciousness that involves feeling; sensibility: "The very essence of literature is the war between emotion and intellect" (Isaac Bashevis Singer).
________________________________________
ETYMOLOGY:
French émotion, from Old French, from esmovoir, to excite, from Vulgar Latin *exmov re : Latin ex-, ex- + Latin mov re, to move; see meu - in Indo-European roots.


As an aside, terms such as possessiveness and jealousy tag along as baggage from Judeau Christian morality and ethics and also as a backlash to totalitarian thinking that the ‘individual’ possesses nothing, that the state owns all. It also attaches to feminism wherein the modern female does not wish to be seen as ‘property’ of the male, cannot be possessed or ‘owned’ and thus cannot be perceived as an object over which to exercise possessiveness or jealousy.

Always a tangled web to discuss emotions, but I have found a starting point is to at least define what one is discussing.

One basic point to accept is that human emotions exist; that hatred and jealousy are real things describing real feelings.

I personally propose that both are essential to a well rounded individual, that hate is as valuable as love and that….hmmm, in searching for the antonym for jealousy, I find it difficult to comprehend…would it be unconcern…lack of feeling?
~~~~
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~~~~~~~~~~~
You can see from the sponsored links that many, like the thread starter, consider ‘jealousy’ to be an undesirable emotion, perhaps it is a matter of degree?

Anyway…out of time…breakfast for growling little ones now chewing on my ankle, shall it be cold cereal, French toast, ham & eggs or oatmeal and orange juice?

Amicus….

 

[entitled]

It's alive! Hi ami.

end threadjack

 

[amicus]

Hi, entitled, and thank you....been in San Diego for a week and have seen the sun only once...are they rationing sunlight here?

"...Emotions

Acceptance | Affection | Agitation | Ambivalence | Anger | Angst | Anticipation | Anxiety | Apathy | Bitterness | Boredom | Compersion | Confusion | Depression | Disappointment | Disgust | Doubt | Ecstasy | Embarrassment | Emptiness | Enmity | Ennui | Enthusiasm | Envy | Epiphany | Fanaticism | Fear | Frustration | Gratification | Gratitude | Grief | Guilt | Happiness | Hate | Homesickness | Hope | Horror | Humiliation | Jealousy | Limerence | Loneliness | Love | Lust | Melancholia | Panic | Pity | Regret | Rejection | Remorse | Repentance | Self-pity | Serenity | Shame | Shyness | Suffering | Surprise


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jealousy

Etymology
The word stems from the French jalousie, formed from jaloux (jealous), and further from Low Latin zelosus (full of zeal), and from the Greek word for "ardour, zeal" (with a root connoting "to boil, ferment"; or "yeast"), originally a condition of zealous emulation.

The jealousy of God, as in Exodus xx. 5, "For I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God," has been defined by Pusey (Minor Prophets, 1860) as the attribute "whereby he does not endure the love of his creatures to be transferred from him".

"Jealous", by etymology, is however, only another form of "zealous", and the identity is exemplified by such expressions as "I have been very jealous for the Lord God of Hosts" (i Kings xix. 10).

The incidence of jealousy and the types of situations that give rise to jealousy vary across societies.

Margaret Mead reports a number of societies in which a man would offer his wife or daughter to others for sexual purposes, as well as cases in which "first wives" in polygamous societies would welcome additional wives as enhancing their prestige and lightening their work. She contrasts the Dobuans, whose lives were dominated by jealous guardianship of everything from wives to yams, with the Samoans, among whom jealousy was rare.

It is possible that Mead's attribution of these differences to social arrangements is correct. Stearns similarly notes that the social history of jealousy among Americans shows a near absence of jealousy in the eighteenth century, when marriages were arranged by parents and close community supervision all but precluded extramarital affairs. As these social arrangements were gradually supplanted by the practice of dating several potential partners before marriage and by more fluid and anonymous living arrangements, jealousy as a social phenomenon correspondingly increased.

However, others have questioned Mead's findings about Samoa (Freeman, 1983; Freeman, 1989; Buss, 2000; Buss, 2001). Mead spent much of her time living in a nearby hotel, rather than among the Samoans themselves, and relied heavily on two individuals rather than direct observation. These two individuals later admitted to giving Mead false information. Jealousy occurred far more frequently than Mead suggested and often resulted in violence. The Samoans have a word for such violence: fua. It appears no society has the freedom from jealousy which

Mead attributed to the Samoans. The incidence of jealousy may vary across cultures, but jealousy remains a cultural universal nonetheless.

By the late 1960s and the 1970s, jealousy — particularly sexual jealousy — had come to be seen as both irrational and shameful in some quarters, particularly among advocates of free love. Advocates and practitioners of non-exclusive sexual relationships, believing that they ought not to be jealous, sought to banish or deny jealous reactions to their partners' sexual involvement with others. Many found this unexpectedly difficult, though for others, conscious blocking of the jealous reaction is relatively easy from the start, and over time the reaction can be effectively extinguished. Some studies suggest that jealousy may be reduced in multilateral relationships where there is a clear hierarchy of relationships or where expectations are otherwise fixed. (See Smith and Smith, Beyond Monogamy.) Contemporary practitioners of what is now called polyamory (multiple intimate relationships) for the most part treat jealousy as an inevitable problem, best handled by accommodation and communication. In mainstream society, although jealousy still carries connotations of insecurity, there is a greater tendency to accept it as a normal and expected reaction to a relationship threat.

Individual coping

Where jealousy produces excessive discomfort or relationship difficulties, several strategies are available to reduce it. These include desensitization through controlled exposure to the jealousy-producing stimulus, revision of the underlying judgments (where these are irrational) through cognitive therapy, unearthing and addressing childhood conflicts that predispose one to jealousy, and changing the dynamics of the relationship to disrupt the jealousy-producing cycle. (Malach-Pines, Romantic Jealousy.)

Also, certain religious codes, such as Christianity and Buddhism teach that individuals must learn to "let go" of the things they desire most, thereby freeing themselves from the ultimately harmful effects of the emotion.

Paraphilia

While mainstream psychology considers sexual arousal through jealousy a paraphilia (categorized as zelophilia), some authors on sexuality (Serge Kreutz, Instrumental Jealousy) have argued that jealousy in manageable dimensions can have a definite positive effect on sexual function and sexual satisfaction.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Microsoft word thesaurus says ‘trusting’ is the antonym for ‘jealous’, having a hard time getting my head around that one.

amicus...

 

[kendo1]

Yeah!
Ami's back!