Was Jane Fonda a Traitor?

[bored1]

With all the discussion about John Walker....What about Hanoi Jane? She went to North Viet Nam....Posed behind a Anti Aircraft Gun.......Reportadly hassled POWs..Came home and nothing was done.......I have been reading about the Viet Nam war lately and to me she is more of a traitor than Walker........Although I do believe Walker should be held accountable

 

[Mensa]

With all the discussion about John Walker....What about Hanoi Jane? She went to North Viet Nam....Posed behind a Anti Aircraft Gun.......Reportadly hassled POWs..Came home and nothing was done.......I have been reading about the Viet Nam war lately and to me she is more of a traitor than Walker........Although I do believe Walker should be held accountable

Seditious, not traitorous. While Jane may have given psychological aid and comfort to the enemy, Walker actually took up arms in their support.

 

[Off]

She married Ted Turner.
Hasn't she been punished enough?

 

[Jimi]

Re: Re: Was Jane Fonda a Traitor?

Seditious, not traitorous. While Jane may have given psychological aid and comfort to the enemy, Walker actually took up arms in their support.

I would agree with that. But that is with 30 years' distance...

At the time, with Uncle Sugar drafting four of my classmates, and having just been kicked out of an American school - I was somewhat pro-Jane.

Two of those classmates just returned from VietNam - having worked at rebuilding an orphanage for two weeks.

 

[DBANDIT]

Fonda absolutely was a traitor. And I say she still is because once you have betrayed your country it stays forever. It always bothered me how we, as a nation, accepted her back into the mainstream of our culture. We shouldn't forget how our POW's were treated at the hands of the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong and when she was handed a note by one to give to American and Red Cross authorities, she passed it back to the NV captors.

Many people protested that war and our involvement but by what authority did she travel to the heart of a nation that we were "at war" with and tour their facilities? Please don't take this subject lightly by saying she "paid her dues" as many of us lost friends and relatives. Maybe if she went to the wall in Washington DC and begged the forgiveness of every family member of every name on that monument, then she could be considered for any honor. If not, let her live in Southeast Asia.

 

[1hotjob]

Re: Re: Was Jane Fonda a Traitor?

Seditious, not traitorous. While Jane may have given psychological aid and comfort to the enemy, Walker actually took up arms in their support.

She gave the enemy a little more than psychological aid and comfort. After the highest ranking officer of the POW's handed her a crib note with the SS numbers of the POW's she had met she immediately handed it over to the Vietnamese Commander who in turn, beat the living shit out of them AFTER she left. She's a traitor. She should have stayed there.

 

[sch00lteacher]

Fuckin A right the bitch IS a traitor. Always will be in my, and others of my generation's mind.

Our guys sitting in the Hanoi Hilton.

She poses for photos sitting on an NVA AA gun wearing a slope hat.

She can never make up for that.

 

[Jimi]

Re: Re: Re: Was Jane Fonda a Traitor?

She gave the enemy a little more than psychological aid and comfort. After the highest ranking officer of the POW's handed her a crib note with the SS numbers of the POW's she had met she immediately handed it over to the Vietnamese Commander who in turn, beat the living shit out of them AFTER she left. She's a traitor. She should have stayed there.

After the POW's returned, I heard that - that's why I am embarrassed that I was somewhat pro-Jane at the time...

If you were alive then, as an adult - you would also remember that we were a deeply-divided generation on the whole war. My two friends of whom I spoke above both flew helicopters - One "Loaches" and the other "Dustoffs" - and they have BOTH forgiven me for protesting the War - I was scared shitless at the time that Uncle Sugar and Fucking "Waste-More-Land" would send them home in body-bags.

That's where I come from - the soldiers are blameless! The Government was wrong.

 

[MidnightAngel]

Re: Re: Was Jane Fonda a Traitor?

Seditious, not traitorous. While Jane may have given psychological aid and comfort to the enemy, Walker actually took up arms in their support.

I agree with that, somewhat. I agree that their actions were different, although I do not feel that one is "better" than the other.

Yes, she's a traitor. I have no use for the woman.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Fonda absolutely was a traitor. And I say she still is because once you have betrayed your country it stays forever.

If I make a soapbox speech in Times Square and convince people that the War on Terrorism is bad and people write to their Congressmen and suddenly American soldiers aren't getting enough money for bullets which is going to result in American deaths -- am I a traitor? No, I'm practicing dissent, which is exactly what the Amnerican soldiers are fighting to preserve.

Now, if I do the same thing, but from a soapbox in the middle of the Atlantic -- is that worse because I'm closer to the actual war? No.

What if I'm standing on the front lines when I do my soapbox act? How about now? Am I a traitor now?

What if I go behind the lines and soapbox? Am I a traitor now? If I'm Jane Fonda, you say, yes I am.

PLEASE make a distinction between practicing dissent and SHOOTING Americans . She's not a "traitor". Dissent, even convincing dissent that hurts a war effort, is one of the strongest freedoms we have. Jane Fonda got people hurt. Don't forgive her if you don't want to. (I do, but it took me a while.) Call her an anarchist. Call her a political baby. Call her a stupid fucking cunt. But don't call her a traitor -- not if you actually understand what soliders die for.

 

[sch00lteacher]

I have seen soliders die, held a few of them while they went about it. I'll never fucking understand what they died for. Not really. Remember Bubba from Forrest Gump? (This is the kind of grunt most of the soliders in Nam were like, not the same as the Gulf, in the Gulf it seemes like the average socio-economic class of solider was higher.) They didn't have a fucking clue as to what they were dying for. They were told to do something, they did it.

When I think of the B-52s that were shot down over Hanoi buy the same type of weapon that the smiling bitch sat upon, if not the very weapon, well...

She might as well of waited, and fired a few rounds off later that night when they came over. Hell that would of made a great photo op.

I am glad many have made their peace with her. Many have forgotten what she did. More don't have a clue as to who the hell she is.

I am sure she is losing sleep about it.
I am not going to forgive her. I might if she sat down with me and we talked about it, and she personally asked me to forgive her.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Yeah, but the question is is she a traitor? I suppose you can't answer that question until you define what a "Traitor" is.

I assume we're not talking about a traitor of conscience or a traitor of emotion or a traitor of morality, but the unambigious kind of traitor that calls for legal charges of treason. We're talking about the Full Monty definition of traitor here right? The whole aiding and abetting the enemy, fighting against your own comrades, kind of traitor, right? Not just some stupid bitch who posed for pics and helped drag the war out by making the VC think they had a propoganda chance with us. We're talking about more, here, right? We're talking about a TRAITOR!!!

John Walker fought with the Taliban against American servicemen. Traitor. Pretty clear. Reasons and excuses and motivations don't matter. That IS the definition of the word. He's a traitor.

Where did Jane "help" the North Vietnamese? I mean directly. I mean with money, guns or butter? Spouting off against the military and posing for photos can certainly be seen as unforgivable by servicemen and civilians alike, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Where did she fire on American troops? Where did she provide intelligence to the enemy. How is she a TRAITOR in the uppercase sense of the word?

 

[KillerMuffin]

She behaved traitorously. She couldn't be tried as a traitor by our Constitutional requirements. Therefore she wasn't a traitor. One can behave traitorously-- in a manner like a traitor-- and not be a traitor.

Anyway, she's a Christian now. Apparently that makes it all better.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

She's a WHAT?? Somebody call a tribunal...