Was it Just a KISS....my wife's dilemma,

[klippert]

I'd like too put this out there, Mrs K is feeling a little strange.

Right to it: Please try too read through this...It is a true story. A name has been changed to protect the guilty.

One of ladies (through the kids school) and Mrs K have become friends, rather good friends. Recently several families gathered for a afternoon BBQ, and since I've start my own business, I was able too attend.
When it was time to go, we'd give the kids one last run around the yard....as Mrs K and her friend Kim were saying good by, the 'customary' hug and cheek touch...went a little different.
As they went for the cheek to cheek, I saw Kim, instead of the cheek thing...kissed Mrs K on lips.... Kim, made the move, she avoided the cheek touch, adjusted for the lips. Mrs K's eyes were wide and she made a giggle "oooh". That was it. But, when I locked the nipper in the seat, hopped in, buckled up put the car in gear.....the Mrs was looking at me...I looked at her, 'What'. Mrs K: "nothing"

Two days later.....I joked with her and my brother about the kiss.
Mrs K played it off as though I didn't see what I SAW.... Since I have met Kim, and she is very very attractive....I've joked with Mrs K about the two ladies....ya know, having a G/G good time, Mrs K has even told Kim, in return Kim joshes right back. When we left my brother and sister in-laws that day.... in the car, Mrs K was looking at me...and said: 'You saw that did you'....ME: Kims' kiss.....yes I did'.

Well, This wasn't the first kiss....and the last kiss, as Mrs K described, wasn't the peck...that had become the norm....The latest kiss, was (as my wife put it) as fuller softer kiss....this happened after Kim did her hair and Mrs K was leaving. Even after the hair appointment they sat and shot the breeze. The kids were there playing.....but when she left, the latest kiss....was different.

Ill back up a bit and do the best I can, helping everyone out with Kim. She is Married....Her hubby is a doctor, Military (two tours Iraq, Medic) Vet. His second tour he was attached too a combat unit. Needless to say, Kim believes he is suffering from PTSD. Since she has met us and feels comfortable, she has confided in Mrs K, and myself when I'm around. Certainly not Medical advice....just venting.

I have always joked with Mrs K, since she lived with four girls her last two yrs of college, she must have had at least one pillow fight....LOL. From this latest 'Kiss', I can totally believe she (Mrs K) has never been (sexually) with a woman. I think she is a little scared....Mrs K, doesn't want too lose this friend. She says this is the closest friend she has had SINCE college...that's nearly 30 yrs.

Neither have said anything....they text, they talk on the phone. It has been two weeks since they've got together for the kids to play. Just so everyone knows, it has only been the kisses....then this latest soft longer kiss.

Now many might believe I would push her....slip you tongue out next time honey. But, when you see the look in her eyes....I didn't want too be a dick of a husband....even though I did want to tell her....slip you tongue out honey.....I'm telling you...fantasy mind went wild. Mrs K is worried Kim might slip the tongue in next time. I try too find humor in every situation... I did tell her to Go for it, be sure too take pix....or better, let me....LOL. She laughed.

I can honestly say....I have the gift to gab, but, I had no advice. What should I tell her.....

I've also post this on GLBT: woman over 35 attracted to other woman...I think

 

[SweetErika]

If your wife is uncomfortable with it, she needs to kindly but firmly tell Kim so and exactly where her boundaries lie.

It could be as simple as, "You know, I really enjoy you as a person and our great friendship, and while I certainly appreciate hugs and even a kiss on the cheek, kissing on the lips feels uncomfortable to me for some reason. Is it OK with you if we just leave it at a hug and maybe a quick kiss on the cheek from now on?"

For me at least, that addresses the situation and makes the boundaries clear while also making it evident that your wife wants to preserve their friendship and Kim's dignity.

Hopefully your wife will talk to Kim instead of avoiding her. If Kim's husband does have PTSD and/or other major issues, she probably seriously needs friends and support people like your wife. The kissing may even be a result of what's going on in her marriage; maybe it's coming from a sense of misplaced feelings or is her attempt to get the affection or intimacy or reach out in ways she might be missing with her husband. If your wife has a good time with Kim and enjoys pretty much everything else apart from the discomfort from kissing, then I think she owes it to both of them to speak up and give Kim the chance to honor her boundaries. Point out to your wife that Kim can't respect boundaries she isn't aware of, and who knows, maybe she even grew up in an environment where kissing on the lips was also an expression of non-romantic intimacy, close friendship, etc.

Ideally, Kim will respect your wife's stated boundaries and they can carry on as good friends, but if she doesn't, your wife would certainly be free to walk away if she so chooses. The difference is that Kim would know why, particularly if your wife reiterated that the kissing/lack of respect of the boundaries she set was killing their friendship before she disengaged. I think that's important so Kim could change things in the future if she chooses to.

Anyway, ask your wife what SHE would want Kim to do if the situation were reversed, or any friend to do if she were doing something that was making them uncomfortable and impacting the friendship. Point out that the kissing could be coming from many places and encourage her to tell Kim she's uncomfortable with it in in a kind-but-firm way in hopes of preserving the friendship (if she does want to maintain the relationship after all). Once she does that, both of you can see how it plays out, but hopefully Kim will respect your wife's boundaries and everything will be fine.

 

[klippert]

If your wife is uncomfortable with it, she needs to kindly but firmly tell Kim so and exactly where her boundaries lie.

It could be as simple as, "You know, I really enjoy you as a person and our great friendship, and while I certainly appreciate hugs and even a kiss on the cheek, kissing on the lips feels uncomfortable to me for some reason. Is it OK with you if we just leave it at a hug and maybe a quick kiss on the cheek from now on?"

For me at least, that addresses the situation and makes the boundaries clear while also making it evident that your wife wants to preserve their friendship and Kim's dignity.

Hopefully your wife will talk to Kim instead of avoiding her. If Kim's husband does have PTSD and/or other major issues, she probably seriously needs friends and support people like your wife. The kissing may even be a result of what's going on in her marriage; maybe it's coming from a sense of misplaced feelings or is her attempt to get the affection or intimacy or reach out in ways she might be missing with her husband. If your wife has a good time with Kim and enjoys pretty much everything else apart from the discomfort from kissing, then I think she owes it to both of them to speak up and give Kim the chance to honor her boundaries. Point out to your wife that Kim can't respect boundaries she isn't aware of, and who knows, maybe she even grew up in an environment where kissing on the lips was also an expression of non-romantic intimacy, close friendship, etc.

Ideally, Kim will respect your wife's stated boundaries and they can carry on as good friends, but if she doesn't, your wife would certainly be free to walk away if she so chooses. The difference is that Kim would know why, particularly if your wife reiterated that the kissing/lack of respect of the boundaries she set was killing their friendship before she disengaged. I think that's important so Kim could change things in the future if she chooses to.

Anyway, ask your wife what SHE would want Kim to do if the situation were reversed, or any friend to do if she were doing something that was making them uncomfortable and impacting the friendship. Point out that the kissing could be coming from many places and encourage her to tell Kim she's uncomfortable with it in in a kind-but-firm way in hopes of preserving the friendship (if she does want to maintain the relationship after all). Once she does that, both of you can see how it plays out, but hopefully Kim will respect your wife's boundaries and everything will be fine.

Wow, that put it right on the plate. Mrs K hasn't been avoiding her, she's been under the weather (summer cold). I think I have too see where is and how she feels.... her eyes were wow, what happened and completely serious about Kim being her closest friend since college. Mrs K, keeps texting her about the kids playing.
I'm trying too be as help full as I can. I guess, even I need too know to help her, or do I just wait..... funny, I was always joking with her, if it every happen, how quickly can we get you two in the sack.....BUT, the look in her eyes...hehe. was total shock....she wasn't offended.

 

[SweetErika]

Have you asked your wife how she feels, and what, if anything, she'd like to do about the kissing without any kind of joking on your part?

If she says she's not totally comfortable with it, you can suggest she discuss that with Kim.

If she says it's shocking, but not uncomfortable, then maybe she just needs to talk to Kim about keeping it to when it's just the two of them alone if the public/in front of others aspect makes her uncomfortable.

At any rate, she may still have to have a conversation with Kim about how kissing on the lips with a good friend isn't something she's used to, and ask Kim what it means to her. IOW, is it just how Kim expresses the intimacy and affection of a close friendship, or is it her way of letting your wife know she'd like to take their relationship to a romantic and/or sexual place? I think she can still do this delicately by expressing curiosity and making it clear that nothing Kim says will offend her or harm their relationship. She could note that many attached women take their friendships out of a platonic place, and while it's something she's not up for (um, unless she is AND you are), the idea itself doesn't bother her one bit.

<Mini Hijack>
Oh, and not to be mean, but your misuse of "too" is seriously jarring to read. "Too" always means "also" or "very" or an excessive amount. If you can't put "also" in its place or you're not talking about A LOT of something, it should be "to" (or "two" for the number, obviously). Like:
I'd really like to help my wife too, if I can.
Oh, you like sex? Me, too!
My best friend loves computers, and I like to play around with them too.
That puppy is way too cute!
Ugh. I'm too full! I ate way too much when we went to the restaurant tonight.

I'll deal with the excessive use of ellipses [...s], especially if you work on the to/too deal. The rules on those are pretty simple and interesting, though. When I first started here I found myself developing an excessive ellipses habit, so I looked into when I actually should be using that punctuation and cured myself of the habit right away. Here's GrammarGirl's Quick-and-Dirty Tips on Ellipses, if you're curious.

We all make mistakes and typos, but I figure if my writing style or mistakes are interfering with the comprehension of my readers or giving people the wrong impression of me, then I need to work on improving.
</Hijack>

 

[klippert]

kiss is a kiss or is it

I've been waiting for Mrs K, as she put it..."hash out her emotions". When I joke with her, it's more to/too break her tension.
My impression is....She isn't/is not uncomfortable. Mrs K is very guarded regarding her emotions. She didn't grow up expressing them.
Again, I don't have the impression, she is "uncomfortable"....she told me she was 'shocked'....the public kiss however, after the BBQ. I was the only one near. You could hear the kiss, I was both eyes open, watched Kim move to/too go for Mrs K's lips

At any rate, she may still have to have a conversation with Kim about how kissing on the lips with a good friend isn't something she's used to, and ask Kim what it means to her. IOW, is it just how Kim expresses the intimacy and affection of a close friendship, or is it her way of letting your wife know she'd like to take their relationship to a romantic and/or sexual place? I think she can still do this delicately by expressing curiosity and making it clear that nothing Kim says will offend her or harm their relationship. She could note that many attached women take their friendships out of a platonic place, and while it's something she's not up for (um, unless she is AND you are), the idea itself doesn't bother her one bit.

I think this is the million dollar question. First, I know without a doubt. Mrs K is worried about the friendship. Knowing my wife like no one has before. I can see from the last kiss, that took her breath away. Actually acting on this sexually 70% chance of 'NO'. My personal impression; Mrs k is going to/too wait and see if it happens again....the more intimate kiss.
Mrs K does have one issue....she'll keep it all wound up inside. When it comes too/to confronting her emotions...she will avoid this at all cost.....that could be a problem. Me personally, if and that is a BIG if, she (MrsK) allow the kiss to/too/also linger...I'm cool with her tasting the other fruit...but, she better have some questions answered and have had 'Hashed out her emotions". On the other hand, if it happens again...softer kiss, Mrs K has it in her to/too/also put the breaks on and make the correct call.

 

[SweetErika]

Yep, every one of those should be "to". Your best bet is probably to stick with that one most of the time unless it's clear "too" is the right choice. It's a lot easier to read over a "to" that should be a "too" than a "too" that should be a "to," IMO. I'd force myself to use just "to" plus synonyms for "too" (e.g., also, as well, very, overly, excessively, etc.). I'm betting the synonyms would force me to be more aware and make it abundantly clear when "too" should be used.

Anyway, It's too bad your wife isn't here to discuss this herself. It'd be nice to hear her side of things first-hand, you know? I'm sure she's a wise lady and she'll handle the whole situation just fine, though!

 

[Goey]

Personally this sounds like your making a bigger deal out of this than what it is.
If she's that uncomfortable with it I'm sure she's perfectly able to move her head out the way, her friend will soon get the hint that that's a boundary she's not interested in being crossed.

 

[Gregory38]

I have to agree with Erika and Goey. I think men tend to want the fantasy and can read into many different situations... Let it go and let the friendship thrive.

 

[klippert]

Anyway, It's too bad your wife isn't here to discuss this herself. It'd be nice to hear her side of things first-hand, you know? I'm sure she's a wise lady and she'll handle the whole situation just fine, though!
[/QUOTE]

If I could actually persuade her to come on lit, that would be a success. adult internet entertainment is NOT high on her list of things to do. I was asking for advice for myself

I have to agree with Erika and Goey. I think men tend to want the fantasy and can read into many different situations... Let it go and let the friendship thrive.

I have let it go, as a matter of fact. I was trying to help my wife understand this. You would think you were correct in your assumption. I didn't read in to deep at all. When she told me of the more intimate kiss....I saw a look in my wife's eyes that stopped me from going 'Fantasy' as was assumed. I know some people "think" they have all the answers. I know for a fact I don't....I post the thread more to help me, Help my wife. I could have happily continued this thread by telling everyone Mrs K bumped into Kim shopping at Kohls.

You could assume, I jumped in and started making plans for these two luv'ly ladies too/to start a wonderful Bi-Sexual affair....That was the furthermost thought in my mind.....Mrs K values her friendship with Kim. She worries about her and her husband struggles with (not diagnosed) PTSD. This may be difficult for some too/to understand.
I didn't post the thread for advice in getting these ladies to have sex. I was trying to/too help myself too/to help my wife, as I said before. I know I know men are pigs....that's all we think about...woman are sex objects....no brains. I tried the best I could to/too explain the situation. This before my Grammar was critiqued.

My mistake, I guess was posting on 'HOW TO/TOO/TWO'

 

[OnceFuturePoly]

I read this thread twice, and still can't quite see what's happening. But if I got it right, you think that your spouse is being conflicted from her girlfriend's kissing.

In my relationship, when either of us gets into a situation like, that, we ask the other for help.

If my spouse were troubled by a kiss from another, she'd mention it and perhaps ask my read on thing.

If I thought my spouse were troubled by a kiss from another, I'd ask if she was.

She might quickly turn the discussion around to "Are you having a problem with me over something that's not a problem for me?"


PS: I appreciate your many posts, and accept your writing style as part of your personality.

PPS: Maybe the grammar nazis would shift your focus if you substituted new paragraphs for an occasional ellipse.

 

[Goey]

I have no idea what the complaint about writing style is about but well - Your wife is a full grown woman. It seems incredibly sexist to think she can't move her head out the damn way without talking to you.

Woman A moves in for kiss
Wife moves head out of way

After 2 or 3 times it'll be clear


This is like saying "My Wife turned around in a 90 degrees angle and now she can't find the door without help"

I hope I'm missing something here as at the moment it just seems like the longest time such a simple problem has taken to be solved.

 

[SweetErika]

If I could actually persuade her to come on lit, that would be a success. adult internet entertainment is NOT high on her list of things to do. I was asking for advice for myself

I think we're all unclear on what you'd like advice about. From what I understood (quite possibly incorrectly), your OP implied you wanted to know how to help your wife with the situation. Several of us gave you advice to give her, but it doesn't appear like that was satisfactory. I don't know...color me confused.

I tried the best I could to/too explain the situation. This before my Grammar was critiqued.

My mistake, I guess was posting on 'HOW TO/TOO/TWO'

I was not critiquing your grammar, I was letting you know that I find your misuse of "too" makes your posts difficult to read. I also let you know how to fix that, and the overuse of ellipses easily if you wanted to do so. My husband has a lot of writing-related learning disabilities and often doesn't see he's using the wrong word or making the same mistakes over and over. It affects how people comprehend his writing, and is a sensitive subject for him. He needs someone to outright show him the problems and sometimes help him fix mistakes. In addition, I've worked with kids and adults with all sorts of learning challenges, ESL learners, etc. So, I'd never make fun of someone's inadvertent mistakes, confusion, disability, etc. (laziness, like text-speak, is a whole different issue).

Furthermore, I truly appreciate it when people give me constructive advice on things like my writing because it is such an important form of communication. This site has its roots in reading and writing, and I'd say most of us appreciate good, clear writing skills. When there are a lot of mistakes or glaring errors, it's easy to get caught up on those and miss the writer's message (which may be why everyone seems to be misinterpreting your posts in this thread).

Therefore, I don't think it's out of line to say, "Sorry, but I'm having trouble reading you because of XYZ. You can do A and B to fix that if you want," on this site and this forum in particular. We're all here to learn and better ourselves via these threads in some way or another, right?

Anyway, I apologize if I hurt your feelings by letting you know your mistakes/style was confusing for me and providing suggestions. I was attempting to treat you as I'd like to be treated in the same situation. You were/are certainly free to disregard my suggestions on how you can fix one or two grammatical issues and be understood better. You're welcome to add me to your ignore list. However, the mocking is unnecessary, negative and a disproportionate response.

Best of luck to your wife!

 

[njlauren]

To be honest I would be more worried about Kim and her husband then 'the kiss'. It could be Kim feels something for your wife or she was simply looking for intimacy, not necessarily sexual, it could be nothing at all. If it was my wife I wouldn't make a big deal about it unless something happened and she wanted my advice or support (for example, X friend she wanted to explore with my wife) and she didn't know how to handle it, etc....but until then, I wouldn't make anything of it.

What worries me is Kim's spouse with potential PTSD (potential since obviously none of us know the situation, we have your observation only), if that is what is going on it can't be easy, PTSD can manifest itself in many ways and none of them are particularly nice. Quite honestly the important thing will probably be Mrs. K and you being Kim's friend and trying to support her in what seems to be a rough time, let her know you are there and also try to find ways to help her get him help (unfortunately, thanks to all kinds of stupid shit and trying to save money, a lot of combat vets are having trouble getting treatment, despite the fact that soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan are showing signs of stress related disorders not seen before. If you have to yell at the VA on her behalf, or yell at congressmen, or simply give her a place to feel safe to vent and as a possible haven for time if things are bad at home for her and the kids, you would be doing the important thing. Among other things, I suspect Kim whatever her feelings for your wife, platonic or other, has too much on her plate to want to go anywhere with it at this point.