Warped by Internet Porn

[Keroin]

Yes, I know we've had similar discussions before but I just finished an article that's made me want to revisit this.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/13/did_porn_warp_me_forever/

To summarize (though I highly suggest reading the entire article), the author began exploring hardcore porn online at a young age, gradually consuming more and more to the point he considered addiction. He felt it forever altered him, in a bad way, and robbed him of the chance to discover his sexuality naturally. He does use phrases such as "deviant" but he also makes it clear that he doesn't consider kinks such as BDSM bad or wrong. To quote:

"I think kinky sex is wonderful; it acknowledges how shame, domination and weirdness truly pervade sexuality. But, I want to be able to explore kink — not be resigned to it. I’m grateful for my generation’s embrace of sexual liberation, but this feels more like a cage."

What makes me curious about this is that I have a trauma therapist friend (now retired) who said that at the end of her career, the majority of her clients were young couples who were having troubles because of their sex life and specifically because of the expectations imprinted (usually on the male) by internet porn.

Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

Your post reminded me of this...

 

[Keroin]

I've often thought about this and it sounds as though the author is focussed on the negative affect of porn, snuffing out the excitement of exploration. The same could be said of learning about any aspect of life: how to use and ATM or how to make a cake. Surely education cannot be bad: can any knowledge by itself be deemed as bad? Certainly there are things I wish I did not know or had not seen on the internet!

I don't get the feeling that the author was against exploration. I think the issue was that he started so young and the sheer volume and content of what he saw is what affected/addicted him. And of course this comes back to parental control but kids seem to always find a way around that.

Isn't it the application of knowledge that is the key? Your therapist friend must have been seeing couples who could not disassociate fantasy from reality or potentially faked bdsm footage from a situation with a person they love. Those patients needed a reality check: our actions have consequences in real life and we are accountable for them. Trust is an intrinsic element of sex, especially to people into bdsm ( which I'm not at all ) and you have a bond directly with a person in a way that the internet cannot begin to approach.

Well, again, we're talking about people who saw a lot of porn, which was/is probably also the main source of their sex education, at a young age. Most of us were likely exposed to porn at a young age and that was exciting, titillating, etc, but is there a point where you can see too much? Not mention that the concept of bonding and consent is probably outside the realm of, say, an eleven year old boy?

I don't know, I'm just curious.

 

[FurryFury]

I've always told my kids that when they start looking at it to keep in mind it's staged and with a script, therefore not real. If they expect that stuff in real life they are likely to be dissappointed.

As for me, there was no internet growing up. I had to make do with cosmo, playboy and that sort of thing.

I WISH there had been internet, not for the porn but for the knowledge and identification aspect. Personally my porn is words and stories not pictures and certainly not movies. I think it can serve a good purpose or bad. I think that's up to each individual.

I also think many so called addictions are not in fact addictions at all. If you enjoy it and you still work and spend time with your loved ones, can pay your bills, then it's NOT an addiction. Move on and enjoy.

 

[Keroin]

Your post reminded me of this...

Ha! Perfect!

 

[midwestyankee]

I recall seeing a rather good TED talk on a similar topic and when I mentioned it here, was soundly redressed. My take is that most people who post here have had much more balanced education in sex (at least over time; we all probably got bad information from somewhere at one time or another) than the average person. We were perhaps more open to finding multiple sources of information. Since internet porn video is so easy to find these days and is so broadly accessible, I suspect that the memes of porn are being absorbed by a much, much larger portion of the population (especially in men) than in earlier generations.

 

[Keroin]

I've always told my kids that when they start looking at it to keep in mind it's staged and with a script, therefore not real. If they expect that stuff in real life they are likely to be dissappointed.

Parental guidance is critical, IMO. Or any kind of mature adult guidance. I like your approach, FF. You make the "dangers" clear without sending the message that SEX IS BAD!

As for me, there was no internet growing up. I had to make do with cosmo, playboy and that sort of thing.

I WISH there had been internet, not for the porn but for the knowledge and identification aspect.

Agreed. It would have been nice to have real, valuable knowledge at the click of a mouse. Some way I could have learned important things about sex and my body without judgement.

I also think many so called addictions are not in fact addictions at all. If you enjoy it and you still work and spend time with your loved ones, can pay your bills, then it's NOT an addiction. Move on and enjoy.

In the author's case, he is saying that he has trouble getting an erection or reaching an orgasm without at least thinking of the images he's seen. So obviously, for him, there is an issue.

 

[intothewoods]

Yes, I know we've had similar discussions before but I just finished an article that's made me want to revisit this.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/13/did_porn_warp_me_forever/

To summarize (though I highly suggest reading the entire article), the author began exploring hardcore porn online at a young age, gradually consuming more and more to the point he considered addiction. He felt it forever altered him, in a bad way, and robbed him of the chance to discover his sexuality naturally. He does use phrases such as "deviant" but he also makes it clear that he doesn't consider kinks such as BDSM bad or wrong. To quote:

"I think kinky sex is wonderful; it acknowledges how shame, domination and weirdness truly pervade sexuality. But, I want to be able to explore kink — not be resigned to it. I’m grateful for my generation’s embrace of sexual liberation, but this feels more like a cage."

What makes me curious about this is that I have a trauma therapist friend (now retired) who said that at the end of her career, the majority of her clients were young couples who were having troubles because of their sex life and specifically because of the expectations imprinted (usually on the male) by internet porn.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Hmmm. I'm not sure what I think about this dude.

We are oversaturated with all kinds of extreme visual imagery -- sexual, violent, food porn -- everything.

I'm sure there is an impact in having such extreme images be imprinted as your first sexual fantasies. I don't think there's a way to prevent it -- I don't know -- but also, I suspect there's something else going on with this dude.

Another thing -- what makes people wired a certain way -- it's speculative. What he describes reminds me of what I've read foot fetishists describe.

 

[FurryFury]

In the author's case, he is saying that he has trouble getting an erection or reaching an orgasm without at least thinking of the images he's seen. So obviously, for him, there is an issue.

There is an issue if he makes it an issue. I used to have the same type of issue, that I couldn't get off without thinking about rape and such. It was so "bad" and "horrible". Why couldn't I just enjoy the moment and NOT THINK or get off on romance and shit? I tortured myself with that until I accepted and embraced it. Problem solved.

 

[Dyslexicea]

What makes me curious about this is that I have a trauma therapist friend (now retired) who said that at the end of her career, the majority of her clients were young couples who were having troubles because of their sex life and specifically because of the expectations imprinted (usually on the male) by internet porn.

I'm not one who really likes to watch porn and I have a limited knowledge of hetero porn, but from what I have watched and from what I've read, I just wonder if the problem your friend saw was really caused more so because the men who watch hetero porn really think women should respond to sucking a cock or him doing the innie outie thing in orgasmic bliss. I'm sure most hetero and bi women enjoy those things but it's never going to be enough for her to really enjoy sex. Many men, even older men, seem to be clueless in this regard. To me it's not surprising that when Ann Landers asked women about their sex lifes most women responded they'd rather cuddle. He gets his, she rarely if ever gets hers, doesn't make for a very good sex life.

So I'd have to say that porn isn't much good for anyone. I'd have to add sex education is just about as awful. We all learn about our parts, about safe sex, but no one ever teaches us how our parts work. That's maybe not such a big deal for men, but we're so much more complicated. Guys play a little and they have an orgasm, where as we women actually have to learn how to orgasm. Sure someone tells you guys women need foreplay, but your clueless, no one told you a little kissy face, some breast and nipple play along with a little finger banging just isn't going to get it. Yea some men get it, something I hate to admit! So many Don't!

 

[Keroin]

Guys play a little and they have an orgasm, where as we women actually have to learn how to orgasm. Sure someone tells you guys women need foreplay, but your clueless, no one told you a little kissy face, some breast and nipple play along with a little finger banging just isn't going to get it. Yea some men get it, something I hate to admit! So many Don't!

I agree with your comments on most hetero, non-kink, porn. For the most part, it is a poor representation of real sex.

As to the part I quoted above, a big reason many men "don't get it" is because women don't help them get it. We need to say "I like this, I do not like that." We need to be specific, almost clinical. And we need to do this when we're not "in the moment" because, yeah, buzzkill. It will feel weird at first for many women but only the most boneheaded of men do not appreciate this kind of insight.

 

[Keroin]

I recall seeing a rather good TED talk on a similar topic and when I mentioned it here, was soundly redressed.

LOL. That does not surprise me. I think it's a touchy subject for whatever reason.

My take is that most people who post here have had much more balanced education in sex (at least over time; we all probably got bad information from somewhere at one time or another) than the average person. We were perhaps more open to finding multiple sources of information. Since internet porn video is so easy to find these days and is so broadly accessible, I suspect that the memes of porn are being absorbed by a much, much larger portion of the population (especially in men) than in earlier generations.

I agree. And I'm torn between the wonderful openness of the Internet age and the over saturation of...everything. I'm actually really looking forward to my six weeks of disconnection in Baja. I've gone from one extreme (barely any connectivity) to the other (24/7 baby!) and I'm starting to feel overwhelmed by it. I feel a deep need to be simple for awhile.

Hmmm. I'm not sure what I think about this dude.

Ditto.

We are oversaturated with all kinds of extreme visual imagery -- sexual, violent, food porn -- everything.

Yep, see above.

I'm sure there is an impact in having such extreme images be imprinted as your first sexual fantasies. I don't think there's a way to prevent it -- I don't know -- but also, I suspect there's something else going on with this dude.

Another thing -- what makes people wired a certain way -- it's speculative. What he describes reminds me of what I've read foot fetishists describe.

Yeah, I suspect wiring is an issue. It's likely that you could put 50 boys in this situation and only one, maybe, would have his extreme reaction.

There is an issue if he makes it an issue. I used to have the same type of issue, that I couldn't get off without thinking about rape and such. It was so "bad" and "horrible". Why couldn't I just enjoy the moment and NOT THINK or get off on romance and shit? I tortured myself with that until I accepted and embraced it. Problem solved.

LOL. Yeah, I get that. Acceptance does change things. Unless, of course, you really don't want to accept. Then you have a problem. Confusing.

 

[Dianthus]

I recall seeing a rather good TED talk on a similar topic and when I mentioned it here, was soundly redressed. My take is that most people who post here have had much more balanced education in sex (at least over time; we all probably got bad information from somewhere at one time or another) than the average person. We were perhaps more open to finding multiple sources of information. Since internet porn video is so easy to find these days and is so broadly accessible, I suspect that the memes of porn are being absorbed by a much, much larger portion of the population (especially in men) than in earlier generations.

Was it this TED talk?

Yeah, I suspect wiring is an issue. It's likely that you could put 50 boys in this situation and only one, maybe, would have his extreme reaction.

Apparently the use of internet porn and the 'Coolidge effect' actually affects the brain's wiring, through the release of dopamine for new stimulus.

 

[Dyslexicea]

I agree with your comments on most hetero, non-kink, porn. For the most part, it is a poor representation of real sex.

As to the part I quoted above, a big reason many men "don't get it" is because women don't help them get it. We need to say "I like this, I do not like that." We need to be specific, almost clinical. And we need to do this when we're not "in the moment" because, yeah, buzzkill. It will feel weird at first for many women but only the most boneheaded of men do not appreciate this kind of insight.

I was thinking about adding that I felt it was also partly the woman's fault but the feminist side of me just wouldn't let me type those words. Of course I do have my reasons to think many men are far worse than just boneheaded but I can't help sometimes being very fond of them. It seems they all need lots of mothering.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I think it would be strange if it didn't matter what we spend a lot of time looking at, listening to, reading and thinking about, especially at a young age.
There is a reason why companies spend so much money on commercials and there is a reason for showing them again and again.

That said, I don't think this guy represents the norm and he might have had the same results from excessive masturbatory fantasies if he hadn't had access to internet porn.
People managed to become freaks before the internet too.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

The whole article read like someone who doesn't want to acknowledge or accept they are into kinky things. Like it HAS to be the porn and not the fact that he may just be into it.

 

[midwestyankee]

Was it this TED talk?

No, it was THIS TED talk by Cindy Gallop.

 

[Netzach]

There is an issue if he makes it an issue. I used to have the same type of issue, that I couldn't get off without thinking about rape and such. It was so "bad" and "horrible". Why couldn't I just enjoy the moment and NOT THINK or get off on romance and shit? I tortured myself with that until I accepted and embraced it. Problem solved.

This.

It doesn't seem to me that dude likes pictures of intense stuff to the point where it plays in his head to get off is the problem... it sounds messed up to me that dude feels guilty for inability to get off the same way his female straight friends do - THAT to me is a messed up comment on how anxious we are with male sexuality in any kind of honest variation.

Gahhh! I do NOT want a dude who has gotten the image of me with a whip or even Kink.com girl of the minute with a whip out of his head by lightly massaging himself in a warm bath to "get in touch" - this should not be an either/or proposition, in my idea of what's healthy.

 

[Ropebunny]

I feel very conflicted on this topic. Very conflicted. I don't even know if I have an opinion. What I can do though is offer my own story. Maybe someone can offer me some guidance on it?


I started watching hardcore pornography at 11. I mentioned a few days ago how it started on another thread; I'd discovered the term BDSM along with an interesting narrative in a book and after a few days worked up the courage to type it into google. I was shocked by what I saw but far too aroused to turn it off. I already had fantasies about this stuff but here were real people actually DOING it!

I did what I needed to do but after, the shame sunk in. This was not normal or ok. Photos and videos of women being beaten, degraded and tortured shouldn't turn me on; they shouldn't turn anyone on. There was no way these women could have fully consented to the acts I'd witnessed. They must have been coerced, blackmailed, forced to support drug habits etc. I was sick for getting aroused at their suffering. And there was no way I could ever, ever tell anyone about my secret. The thought of getting caught paralysed me with fear and I vowed that if my mother ever found out I would end my life.

Fastforward 5 years. I'm pregnant with my son. I have obviously had sex by now, and have been in 2 medium term relationships. I cheated prolificly through the first of these, both online and in the flesh. I experimented with some kink, but very light as none of my partners looked very comfortable with what I asked of them. I get close to cheating at the beginning of the second but am caught, and to save the relationship resolved to stop all sexual contact with others. I am successful.

The only times the urge has waned was during my first episode of depression, where self-hatred because of my dirty secret and other things led to self-harm. The next episode of depression left me seeking solace in the arms of many boys, alcohol and drugs and the urges remained.

My habit still digusts me, but I'm compelled to endulge it any chance I get, sometimes up to three times a day. I have accessed porn in many places; internet cafes, my mother's friend's homes, mobile devices (which was ridiculously expensive back then here).

I resolve to quit, cold turkey. I tell myself that I'm young and stupid, and that given time I will become normal and the images I hold in my head will fade. I am about to be a mother, and what sort of mother gets off on stuff like that. The only way I can be a good mother to my child is to stop.

So I did, for 3 years. My libido completely disappeared, aided by hormonal contraception. My partner resigned himself to celibacy, and while I did my best to become aroused by normal means it just did not happen.

Around the beginning of last year we decided that I should stop the hormonal contraceptives, since we were only having sex around 4 times a year anyway. As my body returned to naturality my libido started to return.

One fateful day, when my son was napping, I had the overwhelming urge to do what I had vowed to never do again. I gave in and came here, to Literotica (not the forums, I hadn't discovered that yet). I made myself a bargain; I would only read written erotica, no images or videos. 50 Shades had come out, so other women, other mothers were reading porn. It still felt wrong, but a little less so.

The erotica had a great effect on our sex life. Though it was still vanilla, in my mind it was kinky. Loving caresses turned into slaps and pinches, yes was no and moans of pleasure were the screams of pain. My partner knows I'm not all there but is afraid to say anything, lest things revert to the way they were before. I tentatively ask for some light bondage but he declines, saying that after not having been intimate for so long it would feel wrong to him.

I resolve not to ask again and maintain the status quo. I am pleased that at least I can provide him with sex again, as I knew that eventually the lack would have broken us apart.

Then I discovered these forums. I read and read and read. It was like I'd stumbled on an oasis after wandering through the desert. I gulped down the words like I had never drunk before. And the shame slowly started to fade.

Here were normal seeming people, just like me, that actually consentually did this stuff. They weren't crazy, violent, sociopaths that took advantage of others. They didn't hide away away from society and sign their lives away to do what turned them on. They had children, jobs, were respected and loved.

I felt stupid. So incredibly, utterly, obscenely stupid. I had built up this terrible, evil picture in my mind of what BDSM was and had beaten myself up for years over it. And the truth was literally a few clicks away. I was just too scared to find it.

After a month of lurking and a few months of vanilla sex I worked up the courage to come clean to my partner. I wasn't going to go right into the depravity that aroused me but I found nice site for newbies to show him. told him I had something to tell him and it had to do with sex. It took an hour for me to finally spit it out.

He laughed. And laughed, and laughed some more. I was shocked and relieved, I had expected him to be disgusted and thought he may even want to leave. When he got the laughter under control he explained the laughter. He already knew I was kinky and had strongly suspected I was into more than I let on. He said the erotica and porn watching was totally normal and nothing to be ashamed of, even if it was non-conventional. And then the kicker - he had been certain that I was going to admit to having an affair! I laughed. We both laughed. And read and talked. And picked out some new things to try together.

And try we did! That was almost a year ago. Since then I've done so many things I thought I'd never get the opportunity to do and he has gone from facilitating my fantasies to creating scenes with absolutely no input from me. Our lives have both changed immensely; both of us feel happier, closer to one another and feel more fulfilled. The dynamic is still changing and the last of my secrets are slowly being bled out. He has been nothing but supportive but old habits die real hard! Though the honesty is bringing us closer than I ever imagined we could be and I am eternally grateful for that.

I am back to watching porn too, mostly pictures but the odd video too. I do this at least once a day, but as it doesn't seem to be impacting our sex life I don't see a problem with it. I still battle with shame, as some of what I view still feels like very questionable material.

I don't know where to go to from here. I don't know if the shame is a good thing and keeps me from descending into a totally amoral person, or if it is maladaptive should be combatted. I just don't know. And I definately don't want to pass any opinion on the linked story. I've gotta figure my own shit out first.


So that is my great, big, autobiographical rant. I apologise for the length. I promise I won't do it again, if I can help it. I'm pretty weak-willed though so it might happen.


I just want to add: Thank you to all you wonderful people on this board, for opening my eyes to how wonderous BDSM can be and for making me feel like I have a place here. Without this forum my life would have been a lot different and I might never have come to accept parts of myself. You are all very special people, more so than you know.

Thank you.

 

[JMohegan]

I had rape-based fantasies long before the Internet was even invented. And the "porn" of my youth was comprised of nude, unaltered females in what would now be considered extremely tasteful spreads.

 

[BiBunny]

The Effects Of Too Much Porn: He's Just Not That Into Anyone

The Last Psychiatrist is a god among men. I'm sharing this article because it applies to this discussion, but every one of his posts is worth reading ten times over.

/fangirl

 

[Netzach]

I like the junk food analogy. Most people can have a bag of doritos and not throw out everything else in the fridge.

 

[intothewoods]

This.

It doesn't seem to me that dude likes pictures of intense stuff to the point where it plays in his head to get off is the problem... it sounds messed up to me that dude feels guilty for inability to get off the same way his female straight friends do - THAT to me is a messed up comment on how anxious we are with male sexuality in any kind of honest variation.

Gahhh! I do NOT want a dude who has gotten the image of me with a whip or even Kink.com girl of the minute with a whip out of his head by lightly massaging himself in a warm bath to "get in touch" - this should not be an either/or proposition, in my idea of what's healthy.

Could be as simple as - likes older women and feels guilty about it. He mentions cougars/MILFs a couple of times. Maybe he's not that into women his age because he's...not that into women his age.

 

[JMohegan]

The Effects Of Too Much Porn: He's Just Not That Into Anyone

The Last Psychiatrist is a god among men. I'm sharing this article because it applies to this discussion, but every one of his posts is worth reading ten times over.

/fangirl

Damn, what a facility with language! Who is he, and how did you hear about him?

 

[BiBunny]

Damn, what a facility with language! Who is he, and how did you hear about him?

Someone on another forum that I frequent linked to one of his posts a while back, and that's how I found him. I have no idea who he is or really anything about him; he's very close-mouthed about himself. All I know is that he is a psychiatrist, and I think he's mentioned both practicing and being on staff at some university or other. He may not even be a he. Nobody knows for sure.

His newest post about feminism and how it misses the point blew my mind.

ETA: If you or anyone else is interested, he and some other contributors have another blog devoted mostly to deconstructing pop culture, Partial Objects. The description sounds dry, but it's fascinating for the most part.