Wait, I thought the Republicans said the rich pay too much taxes

LJ_Reloaded

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But yet America is becoming a plutonomy - dependent largely on spending by the rich.

What?

If you're being overtaxed then how is your expenditures ALSO amounting to 37% of all consumer spending?

You guessed it, folks. This is a major fatal flaw in Republican supply-side economics: the rich are bleeding the rest of America of its wealth.

But at some point there's only so much of OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY the rich can steal.

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-hom...ncreasingly-tied-to-the-rich#mwpphu-container

U.S. Economy Is Increasingly Tied to the Rich
by Robert Frank
Sunday, August 1, 2010

Who cares how the rich spend their money?

Well, perhaps everyone should these days. Consumer spending accounts for roughly two-thirds of U.S. gross domestic product, or the value of all goods and services produced in the nation. And spending by the rich now accounts for the largest share of consumer outlays in at least 20 years.

According to new research from Moody's Analytics, the top 5% of Americans by income account for 37% of all consumer outlays. Outlays include consumer spending, interest payments on installment debt and transfer payments.

[See Ways to Save on Restaurants, Travel, and More]

By contrast, the bottom 80% by income account for 39.5% of all consumer outlays.

It is no surprise, of course, that the rich spend so much, since they earn a disproportionate share of income. According to economists Emmanuel Saez and Thomas Piketty, the top 10% of earners captured about half of all income as of 2007.

What is surprising is just how much or our consumer economy is now dependent on the rich, and how that share has increased as the U.S. emerges from recession. In the third quarter of 1990, the top 5% accounted for 25% of consumer outlays. That held relatively steady until the mid-1990s, when it started inching up past 30%. It dipped in 2003 and again in 2008, but started surging in 2009 amid the greatest bull market rally in history, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average rising nearly 50% in the last nine months of the year.

Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody's Analytics, cites two main reasons for the increase. First, the wealthy panicked during the financial crisis and stopped spending. When markets rebounded, they came out of their shells and started spending again. "I think that pent-up demand was unleashed," he said. "It was an unusually high rate of spending."

[See 21 Things You Should Never Buy New ]

The second reason is that those people in the middle- and lower-income groups are struggling to pay off debt and stay afloat amid rising unemployment, as Friday's data reminds us. That has crimped their spending.

The data may be a further sign that the U.S. is becoming a plutonomy–an economy dependent on the spending and investing of the wealthy. And plutonomies are far less stable than economies built on more evenly distributed income and mass consumption. "I don't think it's healthy for the economy to be so dependent on the top 2% of the income distribution," Mr. Zandi said. He added that, "In the near term it highlights the fragility of the recovery."

In fact, the recent spending of the wealthy may be unsustainable. Their savings rate has gone from more than 26% in 2008 to a negative 7% in the first quarter of 2010, according to the Moody's Analytics data. They still have lots of savings. But the massive draw on that in the past two years is unlikely to continue at the same pace.

"I think we're already seeing a slowdown in spending by this group," Mr. Zandi says.

And that should be a worry for all of us.
 
But...but....they create the jobs! Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person?
 
So if you were in charge how would you go about fixing this and how long would it take.
 
I wonder how many jobs Shaquille O'Neil is creating?

A lot of "rich" people are like him....they get a good paycheck for a few years during their prime and then back to something closer to normal for the rest of the time.
 
I wonder how many jobs Shaquille O'Neil is creating?

A lot of "rich" people are like him....they get a good paycheck for a few years during their prime and then back to something closer to normal for the rest of the time.

Dude, you just used Shaquille O'Neil (post-basketball) as your baseline for a "normal" person's career?

You've got to be fucking joking.

You people really are out of touch with reality.
 
Dude, you just used Shaquille O'Neil (post-basketball) as your baseline for a "normal" person's career?

You've got to be fucking joking.

You people really are out of touch with reality.

He makes no sense when he posts giant c&p's, even less when making an original post.
 
Shaq is a fine example of someone who makes millions. There aren't that many millionaires or multimillionaires and a lot of them make their money in investments, real estate and entertainment.
 
But...but....they create the jobs! Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person?
This economy was shut down because the working class stopped buying stuff. Which then caused the business credit spigot to get shut off.

So if you were in charge how would you go about fixing this and how long would it take.
Easy.

Raise a 1100% tariff against Latin America, India and China overnight. Across the board. Nothing from goods to services come from there without an automatic 11-fold tax. Plus I'll hire more auditors and customs workers. There'll be people lining out the door to take those jobs and secure us against illegal import dumping. Cut off every possible avenue for employers to send jobs to cheap labor countries without paying that 1100% tariff. This is different from Smoot-Hawley because Smoot-Hawley was an across-the-board tariff against all imports, ever.

Companies that abandon selling goods in America are free to go at that point, and will have their domestic assets and intellectual property seized immediately to be given to companies that hire here. Instant job boom.

Nuke every single solitary tax break EVER for corporations and the upper 5%. Use the CIA to seize funds in offshore tax havens. Dare the Cayman Islands and all their fuckturd compadres to do something about it. Start all over with tax breaks aimed at jobs in domestic research and development. You hire more scientists and research staff, you get to deduct their salary off your corporate taxes.

Aggressively apply funding for electric car production, solar panel installation and all that stuff. Put the head screws on the Middle East and squeeze like a vice until oil demand is cut by 25% and Dubai is swept away by the sands.

Audit companies and tax the fuck out of anyone earning 100 times the average wage of their workforce.


But first I have to wait until the white population has diminished as a proportion to the overall US population so that their Tea Party and Republican / Corporate fucktard allies don't have a strong demographic support to fight me.
 
This economy was shut down because the working class stopped buying stuff. Which then caused the business credit spigot to get shut off.


Easy.

Raise a 1100% tariff against Latin America, India and China overnight. Across the board. Nothing from goods to services come from there without an automatic 11-fold tax. Plus I'll hire more auditors and customs workers. There'll be people lining out the door to take those jobs and secure us against illegal import dumping. Cut off every possible avenue for employers to send jobs to cheap labor countries without paying that 1100% tariff. This is different from Smoot-Hawley because Smoot-Hawley was an across-the-board tariff against all imports, ever.

Companies that abandon selling goods in America are free to go at that point, and will have their domestic assets and intellectual property seized immediately to be given to companies that hire here. Instant job boom.

Nuke every single solitary tax break EVER for corporations and the upper 5%. Use the CIA to seize funds in offshore tax havens. Dare the Cayman Islands and all their fuckturd compadres to do something about it. Start all over with tax breaks aimed at jobs in domestic research and development. You hire more scientists and research staff, you get to deduct their salary off your corporate taxes.

Aggressively apply funding for electric car production, solar panel installation and all that stuff. Put the head screws on the Middle East and squeeze like a vice until oil demand is cut by 25% and Dubai is swept away by the sands.

Audit companies and tax the fuck out of anyone earning 100 times the average wage of their workforce.


But first I have to wait until the white population has diminished as a proportion to the overall US population so that their Tea Party and Republican / Corporate fucktard allies don't have a strong demographic support to fight me.

Wow I don't get an Uncle Ruckus on this one? Are you growing as a person?

Okay your 11 fold against countries with inferior work standards etc etc I get. Is 11 fold a number you came to based on something or is it just a punishing number?

I don't approve of taking intellectual property EVER. Theivery is wrong period. Their physical assets I assume you'd give them a chance to sell it first?

I'm down with nuking the tax breaks. I'm only curious if you buy into the theory that higher taxes makes businesses spend money on salaries/improvements/RnD because if they can't keep it they'll spend it. I don't care cus I'm down with the plan regardless of your motivation I just want to know what it is strategically not just spitefully.

i don't believe electric cars are the future. I think electric cars are the car equivelant of Laser Discs. They are cute and trendy but they missed the mark and something else will rip roar right past them. But I won't fight this point cus I think solar is perfect.

What's important about 100x the average? I like it I'm just curious as to what is sacred about the number. Why not 50x and why not 200x. I'm not disagreeing but like the 1100% tax I'd like to know why you chose this number and not any other number.
 
But yet America is becoming a plutonomy - dependent largely on spending by the rich.

What?

If you're being overtaxed then how is your expenditures ALSO amounting to 37% of all consumer spending?

You guessed it, folks. This is a major fatal flaw in Republican supply-side economics: the rich are bleeding the rest of America of its wealth.

But at some point there's only so much of OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY the rich can steal.
.

Try as I might, I can't think of a thing a rich person has stolen from me. Help me out here, oh Shit-Filled Lit Whiz.
 
Maybe not you, clearly you're a plumber and your job simply can't be shipped overseas. That said jobs get shipped, wages shrink, people make less, you cna demand less simply because people make less.
 
Maybe not you, clearly you're a plumber and your job simply can't be shipped overseas. That said jobs get shipped, wages shrink, people make less, you cna demand less simply because people make less.

OK, then what has been stolen from you by the rich?
 
Wow I don't get an Uncle Ruckus on this one? Are you growing as a person?
When you have an Uncle Ruckus moment I call you Uncle Ruckus.

Okay your 11 fold against countries with inferior work standards etc etc I get. Is 11 fold a number you came to based on something or is it just a punishing number?
It's a sure fire number that's high enough to completely deter any hope of offshoring to cheap labor countries.

I don't approve of taking intellectual property EVER. Theivery is wrong period. Their physical assets I assume you'd give them a chance to sell it first?
Nope. If they're going to try and benefit from the American market by not using American labor, then it's no holds barred. I'd shoot the bastards but the courts would fight me on that.

I'm down with nuking the tax breaks. I'm only curious if you buy into the theory that higher taxes makes businesses spend money on salaries/improvements/RnD because if they can't keep it they'll spend it. I don't care cus I'm down with the plan regardless of your motivation I just want to know what it is strategically not just spitefully.
It's strategic. China is kicking our ass in solar R&D. So is India with pharmaceuticals. Offshoring has bolstered R&D in China and India. Knocking down offshoring with tariffs and encouraging R&D is a double-whammy for them.

i don't believe electric cars are the future. I think electric cars are the car equivelant of Laser Discs. They are cute and trendy but they missed the mark and something else will rip roar right past them. But I won't fight this point cus I think solar is perfect.
How do solar cars miss the mark? What else will rip roar right past them? You can stop at a gas station and swap out a discharged battery using a machine hand in probably 2 minutes, with solar panels powering the rechargers during the day and the power grid supplying recharge energy at night. That would mean virtually unlimited driving range.

What's important about 100x the average? I like it I'm just curious as to what is sacred about the number. Why not 50x and why not 200x. I'm not disagreeing but like the 1100% tax I'd like to know why you chose this number and not any other number.
I can get more of the public behind me at 100x than 50x.

Maybe not you, clearly you're a plumber and your job simply can't be shipped overseas. That said jobs get shipped, wages shrink, people make less, you cna demand less simply because people make less.
In Hambone's universe you get the same quality work no matter how much you pay.

What Hambone doesn't realize is that illegal alien plumbers could use his own reasoning against him and charge half of what he does for the same service. And if his logic holds that you get the same quality no matter what you pay, he's looking at a serious cutback in what he takes in.

This mentality is actually widespread in the contractor industry. Which is why you have so many crappy designed homes. That, and all that Chinese drywall...
 
You might want to talk to all those ex enron employees about the rich stealing from them.

You're talking of crooks, of course.

A rich person who steals is a crook.

A rich person who gives is an angel.

You understand that, right?
 
Describe please.

Employers who dont have alot of money to give for base pay or overtime actually care about their employees. When a walmart district manager asks a stocker how are they doing today it is a greeting that is forgotten the moment its over. When a small business employer asks its because he is genuinely concerned because you not feeling well or having problems at work is a real problem. They know you by name and voice and actually give a damn about you instead of just being another face.

They make great bosses.
 
You're talking of crooks, of course.

A rich person who steals is a crook.

A rich person who gives is an angel.

You understand that, right?

Oh you are one of those annoying posters. please develop a personality and then get back to me.
 
Employers who dont have alot of money to give for base pay or overtime actually care about their employees. When a walmart district manager asks a stocker how are they doing today it is a greeting that is forgotten the moment its over. When a small business employer asks its because he is genuinely concerned because you not feeling well or having problems at work is a real problem. They know you by name and voice and actually give a damn about you instead of just being another face.

They make great bosses.

That doesn't make them poor. Some of the more well off people I know are small employers (less than 100).
 
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