Violence... how much is too much for Lit?

[kiwiwolf]

Hi Hangout inhabitants. How's life folks?

Over the last two days I've managed to drag myself out of a 6 month funk that I've been wallowing in. As a result I've managed to pound out 7,500 words of chapter 3 of my ongoing saga The Real Estate Connection. Having written it, I thought it might be wise to re read it and see how it flowed. Well the flow was okay but one thing that struck me is the violence in it.

Now as it is supposed to be an erotic thriller based on an ex mercenary and his desire to return to civilian life, you have to expect a bit of violence. But how much is too much? I found myself holding back from being as descriptive as I could for the sake of mollifying readers with sensitive stomachs but at the same time it feels unfinished. Is there a general rule of thumb about this? Is there a point where Laurel will say "No way Jose!"?

Any advise would be really appreciated.

 

[shereads]

I don't know about Laurel, but here's an example from the AH:

"Man's Penis Explodes During Sex"

 

[kiwiwolf]

I don't know about Laurel, but here's an example from the AH:

"Man's Penis Explodes During Sex"

LOL... okay I suppose I asked for that. But seriously folks this is a bit of a dilemma for me. Any suggestions?

 

[Weird Harold]

Is there a general rule of thumb about this? Is there a point where Laurel will say "No way Jose!"?

Any advise would be really appreciated.

I think Laurel's "no way, Jose," point is sexual gratifiction from or linked to the violence.

My personal rule of thumb is,"Is the violence gratuitious or is it necessary to the story?" If you need the violence to highlight something in your main character's personality, then it should be however it needs to be to make your point.

 

[wildsweetone]

Heya KW

Having just read part of a story simply to see how much violence is acceptable on Lit, I'd say whatever you write would be acceptable dear.

WH has it right I reckon as far as Laurel's acceptance of a submission goes. Although in the story I just read it seems the main character certainly gets his jollies from violence... not sure he actually ejaculates because of it though - hence the fine line...?

Try doing a story search by typing in 'violence' in the keyword space. There's one story in there that has a real nice chap beheading another, and that's after he's poked another guys eyes out with his fingers and stuck a pool cue through yet another's heart. The author makes clear warning of the violence.

Feel free to send me what you've written and I'll give you a general opinion.


ps so nice to hear you're writing!

 

[kiwiwolf]

Thanks guys... WSO I might send you what I've written today. In fact give me 10 minutes then check your inbox.

 

[rgraham666]

If the violence is necessary to advance the story, leave it in.

If you're suffering from 'TV scriptwriter's Syndrome', leave it out.

'TV scriptwriter's Syndrome' is when "I have five minutes of screen time to fill, so I'll put in a car chase" happens.

This makes for boring literature in my opinion.

 

[snooper]

...'TV scriptwriter's Syndrome' is when "I have five minutes of screen time to fill, so I'll put in a car chase" happens.

This makes for boring literature in my opinion.

Fun on the streets though.

 

[kiwiwolf]

If the violence is necessary to advance the story, leave it in.

If you're suffering from 'TV scriptwriter's Syndrome', leave it out.

'TV scriptwriter's Syndrome' is when "I have five minutes of screen time to fill, so I'll put in a car chase" happens.

This makes for boring literature in my opinion.

I like the term. It doesn't apply here though. My stories are lean on sex and heavy on plot. I thank you for your input rgraham. The violence stays... at this stage.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Several of my stories have violence. I attempt to keep the graphic nature down so it isn't gratuitous, but in some cases it is neccessary to move the plot. In onc case two men are beaten with motocycle chain, it's quite graphic. In my cyberpunk story a woman is shot in the head and dies along with several others.

I think your guiding principle should be what is neccessary to move the story, build character or advance plot. If it's graphic because it has to be, then I think you will have no trouble. It is only when it is graphic when there is no need that you are walking in a gray area.

-Colly

 

[gauchecritic]

Can't give you any advice on this at all Kiwi, maybe I shouldn't be posting, violence abhors me. If I'm reading a story, book whatever that suspends my disbelief enough to believe someone is being hurt or graphically killed I throw the book away or back click.

Just seeing Colleen's description of her work makes it so I won't approach any of her stories. OK I may be missing out on great literature but I'd rather be entertained than sickened.

My view, for what it's worth.

Gauche

 

[kiwiwolf]

Colleen and gauche... thanks folks. I'll let the violence stay as it is needed to establish and advance the plot. I may even have to expand one section to actually describe what a "Colombian necktie" is. A lot of my feedback includes requests for explanations of parts of my stories and I'm damned sure this will be one of those points.

Congrats on your win in the readers choice awards Colleen. It was well deserved. I would have congratulated you sooner but I've had a few upheavals to deal with and have avoided all human contact for months.

Hey gauche... you are truly missing out on some excellent literature if you don't read Colleens stories. She is one of the best authors I've read here.

 

[minsue]

Shameless Plug Alert! (hope ya don't mind, Colly!)

Just seeing Colleen's description of her work makes it so I won't approach any of her stories. OK I may be missing out on great literature but I'd rather be entertained than sickened.

My view, for what it's worth.

Gauche

Hey gauche... you are truly missing out on some excellent literature if you don't read Colleens stories. She is one of the best authors I've read here.

I wholeheartedly agree with Kiwi on this, Gauche. Colly was one of my favorite writers here (long before I came to the AH and she became one of my favorite people in the world). Only a few of her stories have any violence and none is gratuitous. There is absolutely no violence in any of these in any way, shape, or form:

A Change of Plans?
A Mile in Her Heels
Football Widow
Football Widow Ch. 02
Football Widow Ch. 03
Football Widow Ch. 04
Gangster's Ball
Happy Birthday
Inspiration
Irish Eyes
Of Cue Sticks and Garters
Riding for the Brand
Take Two
The Storm

There are others without what I would consider violence, but I wasn't sure where to draw the line.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I had a story turned down by Laurel because of violence. It was an anal rape of a young man by two hobos, with the victim been beaten, raped, and probably killed. There was nothing erotic about the story but it could certainly be called porn. I might resubmit it with the two villains being arrested and hanged for the murder.

 

[wildsweetone]

Box, I'm not saying this is 100% correct for Literotica, but if the rapists were enjoying the sex, then I think that the story might still be rejected.

It's interesting how graphical 'real life' situations written as fiction can be so controversial.

Lots of readers prefer to read 'fiction', not reality. And yet, 'reality TV' seems to have millions of faithful followers. (I can't think why.)

 

[gauchecritic]

Thanks for that list Min. I'll maybe mosey on over and have a look see.

Please don't be offended Kiwi or Colleen but I simply haven't got the stomach for graphic violence. The worst film I've ever seen was Soldier Blue and that was mild for these days. Having paid good money I actually walked out of "Midnight Express" at the point where the guy was being beaten on the soles of his feet. I think it says a lot for the film maker actually (and a few writers) that I was involved enough not to want to witness any more.

On the other hand I'll happily sit through John Wayne, The Governator or Bruce Lee films because I'm not attached.

Gauche

 

[Pure]

Hi Kiwi,

It's hard to tell where the line is. But 'integral' to story might work, EXCEPT

extremes of torture and snuff, seem 'over the line', BUT

note the 'horror' category, which is pretty wide open.

I do NOT think 'perpetrator getting off on violence' is a negative criterion at all, and there are many examples that support my point, like "Restaurant Nightmare."

So I'd say that if the victim doesn't end up six feet under or in intensive care, or missing an arm, you're OK.

Also it's worth noting that the way you describe your story in its blurb has an effect. (i.e., 'killer beheads victim, descecrates and gleefully ejaculates on corpse' might get you nailed, whereas 'an unspeakably vile crime is committed' might sail. )

And the prominence of the violence in the first parts (for not every story can be read through).

J.

 

[Sabledrake]

I fully expected Infernal to get rejected because of the violence (and the dog scene), but somehow it wasn't. Sickest story I ever wrote, except maybe for the zombie competitive-eating contest in The Book of Final Flesh, yowza!

I guess it's all pretty subjective. Submit it, and see what happens. That's what I do.

Sabledrake

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Thanks for that list Min. I'll maybe mosey on over and have a look see.

Please don't be offended Kiwi or Colleen but I simply haven't got the stomach for graphic violence. The worst film I've ever seen was Soldier Blue and that was mild for these days. Having paid good money I actually walked out of "Midnight Express" at the point where the guy was being beaten on the soles of his feet. I think it says a lot for the film maker actually (and a few writers) that I was involved enough not to want to witness any more.

On the other hand I'll happily sit through John Wayne, The Governator or Bruce Lee films because I'm not attached.

Gauche

I took no offense at all Gauche. An honest, that isn't my cup of tea beats offfending someone with my works, any day of the week. Not all, or even most of my stories are violent. Most often I handle violence like 1950's television, it occurs off screen when it is neccessary to the story but dosen't need to be graphically depicted.

There are a few stories however where violent happenings are important to plot development or character development. Cold Reception is about a sniper in WWII, if I had written the story with out her practicing her craft at some point it would have drastically lessened the impact of her as a character, especially in relation to the other character in the story who is very non violent.

I got my start in sword & soccery stories and later cyberpunk. Both genre's put a premium on combat scenes and thus I learned to write them and enjoy writing fight scenes. It has a place in those genre's, and in some cases it has a place in my erotica, but it's never gratuitous.


Thanks for the grats Kiwi & thanks for the shamless plug Min

-Colly